D A Sharp
Posts: 214
Joined: 5/15/2001
From: California
Status: offline
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“In a super dense urban environment like that, how were you trained to fight?”
-Pull back to a defensible perimeter linked to the British and defend in place (DIP = Die in place). A linear defense would be arranged of strong-pointed buildings. In my Company’s sector there was a 100+ meter wide roadway to our front with 4 lanes of sunken road in the middle.
“Minimal vehicle use would be a start”
-The US had 17 each M60A3 tanks and 6 each M109s. These would have been used to retake lost positions (the minimum range of the M109s for indirect use made most of us line grunts believe they would be used in a direct fire role.) The three IN BNs each had a CSC Company with TOWs that would be removed from their M966s and positioned atop large buildings with fields of fire down any streets leading into our perimeter. BN mortars were 4.2” M106A2s, each Line Company had one Platoon w/M113s and a Mortar Platoon w/M125A2s, and the M113s were to be used for cas-evac and resupply behind our positions. Each BN also got a one SQD MP slice with M1026s. I think the BDE had 2 each CEVs, The ENs had a bunch of Earth moving equipment, and each BN also got an EN platoon slice.
“but were you trained to go up the buildings and shoot down or go underground and fight it out there? It would have been a completely different war from the rest of the campaign of course.”
-Rumor had it the building code required 1 to 2 meter thick reinforced concrete on the walls and ceilings of all 1st story buildings along our MDP – I don’t know if this was true, but the buildings were impressively solid, most with steel rolling door and window covers. Above us in the buildings would be our TOWs, FOs, and OPs – at ground and basement level is where the Line platoons would fight. Each weapon squad had 2 snipers (it may have been 4) that would have worked from the ground level fighting positions, the BN snipers during training often took high positions.
-Buildings would have been heavily fortified with ceiling and floor reinforcements, Huge sandbagged weapon and fighting positions designed to defend from both internal and external attack. All openings (internal and external) would have one or more wire mesh screens and a grenade sump. Floors above fighting positions would have been covered with 3 to 4 feet of sandbags (this on top of a thick concrete floor). Mouse holes would be made or blown for access and some parts of the buildings purposely rubbled. The average M60 MG position we built in training was over 6,000 sandbags! We were told that this type of fortification should prove proof against all but a direct FROG-7 hit (a scary thought). Buildings not fortified would be prepared for enemy denial using mines, booby traps, demolition charges, or prepared for firing (Fire and counter-fire operations belonged to the NBC Officer/NCO at BN level – each line BN had 2 flame-throwers)
-We had to consider the sewers and U-Bahn lines that went beneath us, all line squads practiced sewer movement but subway movement was not trained on. The water table in Berlin was very high and flooding was an option just as it was in WW2. Many avenues of approach would have been mined, booby-trapped, or fitted for demolition when most advantageous.
In WW2 didn't experienced infantry teams ignore the streets and just mousehole from building to building?
-Blowing mouseholes or to put it another way – avoiding street, doors, and windows- was SOP. SOPs called for fighting from top down avoiding doors, windows, and stairs. This is ordinance and explosives intensive so I think we would have been somewhat constrained in this regard, but a sandbag and 2 handgrenades would blow a man sized hole in many types of light walls found in the city.
“You might reinforce a corner of a second floor at most for the height advantage, but mainly you stayed low and out of sight.”
-Our companies had Dragons, but they were our secondary AT system in line platoons (Minimum arming distance was problematic). We used the 90mm recoilless rifle (2 per weapon squad) as out primary AT system. These have a serious backblast. They were usually deployed around corners outside of fortified buildings but we occasionally practiced preparing upper stories for 90mm use (required opening up the rear walls quite extensively). I have seen the Brits deploy Milans in Attics of tiled roofs (German tiled roofs are held together with wire clips that allow rapid removal of tiles from the roof to give the weapon some breathing room.
We were trained annually by SF explosives trainers in constructing pole charges and platter charges, and in breaching walls – once they even instructed us on the expedient use of mortar bombs as super grenades (similar in concept to Saving Private Ryan but different in execution)
“Casualties were horrific for soldiers and civilians both. Canadians remember a successful but ghastly contest against a first class German division at a place called Ortona.... It still epitomizes the worst horrors of urban warfare for us.”
-This would have been our Achilles’ heel and also probably also our saving grace. It was thought that the Russians wouldn’t want to destroy the industrial capacity of Berlin by destroying factories and killing skilled technicians. If anything we expected to be locked in a siege, this was good, as it would keep a sizable force from being available to fight in the west. I don’t think the Allied command in Berlin would have let civilians starve and I don’t think we could defend our perimeter while also holding off rioting civilians. We did have huge stockpiles of food. In any case it would have been ugly.
“The few references that I have seen indicate that the Soviets wanted to 'hug' Berlin with high value HQs and the like so that they would be safe from nuclear retaliation. The value of Berlin was as a hostage and no more.”
-This was one assessment that we were told as well, along with many others that were more horrific (nerve gassing of Allied barracks was what seemed both the most likely and least desirable to me personally).
“I have also only ever seen allied WP units used to screen it. Do either of you know just which divisions your most likely opponents would have been?”
-I may have some info on WP units garrisoned around Berlin but I would have to do some serous digging to find it. I have absolutely no insight as to any WP plans.
Keep in mind all my comments are those of an Infantry team and later Squad Leader – much of the information I got about our operational level plans came second and third hand so it may not be very credible. One thing is for sure though – given more than three days advance warning the US would have had a very stubborn defense established in Berlin. Given less than 2 days warning we would have been toast!
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