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RE: Mandalay Liberated - 8/19/2011 6:06:42 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Driving south with all despatch XV Corps has 4 Divs under command even leaving a bde or 2 as LOC will allow me to concetrate 3 Divs on the road from Prome in between Prome and Rangoon

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 1681
Rangoon or Bust - 8/19/2011 6:21:02 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		If I can get a full Corps in behind PZB's Prome garrison he is in deep do do

This is now a race between lead elements of XV Corps and the Japanese forces at Prome.

Today will be a quiet turn

Tomorrow the Paras will hit Bassein and IV Corps will attack Prome

XXXIII Corps will then attack north of Toungoo

Time to exploit and drive fast....

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 1682
RE: Rangoon or Bust - 8/19/2011 8:23:37 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Another Japanese Div shredded XV Corps routed 3rd Tank Div a few days ago and has now retreated 37th Inf Div

17th Indian Div is leading the advance covering the ground it passed when it had to retreat


Ground combat at 56,50 (near Toungoo)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 40931 troops, 746 guns, 558 vehicles, Assault Value = 1636

Defending force 9575 troops, 140 guns, 31 vehicles, Assault Value = 323

Allied adjusted assault: 1034

Japanese adjusted defense: 193

Allied assault odds: 5 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(+), disruption(-), experience(-)
supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
4142 casualties reported
Squads: 47 destroyed, 95 disabled
Non Combat: 134 destroyed, 102 disabled
Engineers: 4 destroyed, 2 disabled
Guns lost 15 (9 destroyed, 6 disabled)
Vehicles lost 10 (5 destroyed, 5 disabled)
Units retreated 3


Allied ground losses:
346 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 40 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 28 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 1 disabled


Defeated Japanese Units Retreating!

Assaulting units:
29th British Brigade
72nd British Brigade
3rd Carabiniers Regiment
9th Indian Division
14th Indian Division
17th Indian Division
XV Indian Corps
3rd (Special Force) Division

Defending units:
37th Division
18th Mountain Gun Regiment
102nd Machine Canno AA Battalion



(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 1683
RE: Rangoon or Bust - 8/19/2011 8:25:03 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		XXXIII Indian Corps will try to force the Japanese 2nd Tank Div back in a few days the more Jap Divs I can wreck piecemeal the better

Ground combat at 57,49 (near Toungoo)

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 36852 troops, 735 guns, 311 vehicles, Assault Value = 1579

Defending force 13553 troops, 211 guns, 836 vehicles, Assault Value = 578

Japanese ground losses:
51 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 7 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Vehicles lost 1 (1 destroyed, 0 disabled)


Allied ground losses:
34 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 2 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled


Assaulting units:
18th British Division
23rd Indian Division
XV Corps Engineer Battalion
5th Chinese Corps
134th Field Artillery Battalion
17th Indian Light AA Regiment
23rd Indian Mountain Gun Regiment
23rd AA Bde
20th Indian Mountain Gun Regiment
6th Heavy AA Regiment
XXXIII Indian Corps
29th Indian Mountain Gun Regiment
2nd Indian Heavy AA Regiment
21st Indian Mountain Gun Regiment
14th Indian Light AA Regiment
24th Indian Mountain Gun Regiment
6th Medium Regiment
35th Light AA Regiment
97th Field Artillery Battalion
56th Heavy AA Regiment
15th Indian Heavy AA Regiment
26th Indian Mountain Gun Regiment
XV Corps RIASC Base Force

Defending units:
42nd Infantry Regiment
22nd Recon Regiment
2nd Tank Division
Botanko Hvy Gun Regiment
39th Road Const Co
101st Machine Canno AA Battalion

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 1684
RE: Rangoon or Bust - 8/20/2011 1:38:52 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Supply net is starting to creak only one of my 3 Corps can attack on any day and I probably have to many Divs on tjhe inland stretch.

The great bluff I am running is I have had to ground IV Corps it simply cannot attack at Prome - not enough supplies getting through so actually the XV Corps flanking move is vital

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 1685
RE: Rangoon or Bust - 8/20/2011 5:00:25 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline 		Andy,

It's wonderful that you give us this sort of information. There are various discussions that take place regarding 'too easy' movement of supply all over, and I often point people to this AAR for a look at what really can be supported after building up frontier bases.

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 1686
RE: Rangoon or Bust - 8/20/2011 5:32:59 PM   
khyberbill


Posts: 1941
Joined: 9/11/2007
From: new milford, ct
Status: offline 		What version of the game are you playing Andy? I could not support this effort with my Beta game.

_____________________________

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(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 1687
RE: Rangoon or Bust - 8/20/2011 8:22:58 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Don't fporget that PZB gave me some HUGE advantages in this game

1. He never took Akyab or Cox Bazaar
2. He never took Myktiana
3. He didnt even attempt to keep my Burmese/Assam bases suppressed.

Even with all these advantages I transferred 20+ Seebee units to India to help build bases and about 2/3 of my total on map air lift capacity.

With all of that I am currently sustaining.

IV Corps mostly from Akyab and Ramree on the coast so supplied by Sea with 8 Divisions
XV Corps mostly up to now from Assam and North Burma but starting to pull supply from Akyab as it gets closer to IV Corps with 4 Divisions
XXXIII Corps Assam and North Burma with 4 Divs

As I have started to pull forward support units, garrison units and air sqns into Burma and as I advance further south my supply status tgets more and more precarious

IV Corps at prome has about 8k supply on hand but needs 13k to be in the white
XV Corps needs 10k and has 10k but has 600 C47's on round the clock air drops
XXXIII Corps has 10k and needs 10k but if I attack I know that will spike.

If PZB could shut down Akyab and Ramree I am not sure even one Corps would be able to advance.

I am seriously on the admin margins now and am watching supply levels like a hawk.


(in reply to khyberbill)
Post #: 1688
RE: Rangoon or Bust - 8/20/2011 8:28:35 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		If I can take Prome and get it operational as an advanced air hub (or Bassein) then that would be a big help - but I cannot afford a long siege - my supply status will simply not take a lengthy slogging match.

I am pretty close to turning all my B24 Sqns to supply haulers and I am really debating whether an early air drop on Bassein is worth the risk of intorducing 3 more Bdes into the theatre.

I have 3 more Divs sitting in India but dare not commit them as I have to much in theatre right now.

If PZB decides to stand and fight at prome and can get a 2+ Div blocking force in front of XV Corps this could all fall apart.

This is far from a victory yet.

PZB has left a large force at Taung Gyi if they were in southern Burma digging in to stop XV Corps I suspect the offensive would peter out

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 1689
RE: Rangoon or Bust - 8/21/2011 12:09:43 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		version is one of the beta versions but not the latest one.


(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 1690
RE: Rangoon or Bust - 8/21/2011 1:17:21 PM   
Fishbed

 

Posts: 1822
Joined: 11/21/2005
From: Beijing, China - Paris, France
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

Don't fporget that PZB gave me some HUGE advantages in this game




Sorry Andy, couldn't resist, but taken really out of the Burman theater context, just sounded a tad funny to read
Keep up the hard work, I think that is really turning into a Verdun over the Irrawady, both of you are going to suffer a lot, a lot...

_____________________________


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Post #: 1691
RE: Rangoon or Bust - 8/21/2011 6:15:16 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline

He did make it easy for me - yes if he had taken Akyab I would have had a trainiong ground but by not taking it he accelerated my timetable a year.

Having said that yes I am aware of a couplke of the stinkers I have made as well.........

Not sure about Verdun I have not as yet had to commit to a real attritional knuckleduster fight.

Closest was when 5th Indian Div was crumbling the Jap Armoured Div but even there my casualties were low - I am watching supply and casualties like a hawk I know I cannot afford to write off Divs the way PZB has been - my Corps normally act as Corps to stop them being picked off.

I think I hqave a real chance at Rangoon before the monsoon which would allow me to put pressure on Moulmien/Tavoy

I cannot enter the Malacca strait as i dont have the naval airpower so Burma to some extent is a dead end unless I commit the US Fleet but its tying up a lot of Japanese resources at a time when I cannot tie them up any other way

(in reply to Fishbed)
Post #: 1692
RE: Rangoon or Bust - 8/21/2011 6:15:55 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		p.s. remember every unit I tie up in Burma - every aircraft I shoot down is one less I will face when my real attack goes in

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 1693
RE: Rangoon or Bust - 8/22/2011 10:27:39 AM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Taking a long look at PM again with KB in the Bay of Bengal a smash and grab may be possible would need a lot of aircover but it is doable....

Would love to open up another front to keep up the attrition

Andy

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 1694
RE: Rangoon or Bust - 8/22/2011 10:40:36 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		XXXIII Corps attacked last night more in the nature of a probe attack and achieved 1:1 not to shabby going to try another attack with more support tomorrow

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 1695
RE: Rangoon or Bust - 8/22/2011 11:28:23 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		XV Corps flanking move at Prome is actually going to take 10 days its slow going cutting the bend.

XXXIII Corps attack north of Toungoo was expensive in supply - it sucked most of the spare supply out of Mandalay/Mage and Schwebo Depots and past experience says that after tomorrows atack it will take 3 -5 days to build up enough stockplie for a single days attack. So tomorrow needs to be decisive or at least decisive enough that I can afford a few supply -ve rolls if I go for a third day attack.

If PZB was to put up serious resistance both my XV and XXXIII Corps offensives would grind to a halt.

But so far its been penny packets not sure why PZB hasnt put a solid 3 -4 Div front in place to stop me he has the units I had identified at least 12 Divs in Burma not sure what he is up to.

Ordered some extensive recon of Taung Ghyi the lack of dug in Divs to my front has me slighty concerned that there is a sucker punch out there somewhere.

IV Corps at Prome is still sitting at c 50% of white supply its a great white elephant sitting there if I attack PZB will know that I am out of gas - by sitting still and threatening to flank him I am hoping he will pull back out of Prome.

9th Aus Div will try to clear my LOC but I am not hopefull as the Japanese are well dug in in the mountains

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 1696
RE: Rangoon or Bust - 8/22/2011 11:32:30 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Ordered an armoured Regt from XV Corps to cross into Prome and join up with IV Corps by turning that hexside green I open up another supply line to IV Corps - its a double edge sword because it may mean that all 3 Corps are drawing supply from the tenuous SLOC all the way back to Assam when 2 Corps are already struggling.

The Japanese units sitting across the direct LOC to Ramree are a real PITA at moment

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 1697
RE: Rangoon or Bust - 8/22/2011 11:40:04 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Made a hard decision today all air units deployed into Central and Northern Burma other than a couple of fighter and recon sqns are being withdrawn to India and all movement of support units to the Burmese plains is being halted.

1/3 of all B24's in theatre effective tomorrow are becoming trash haulers.

I must keep up the momentum of my attacks and if that means crowding Akyab and Ramree with mytactial and fighter bombers so be it - if PZB gets a bombardment through it will hurt but supply is so critical at present that I need to keep my Army moving

Fortunately XV Corps is moving for the next 10 days and is not in combat

XXXIII Corps after tomorrows attack will likely have to go defensive leaving all efforts focussed on getting IV Corps to the white for an attack in 4 - 6 days on Prome.

I 'may' try an Airborne landing in force to take an advanced airhead - I am balancing Admin risk at present I just hope PZB doesnt pick up on the fact that I am a bit of a paper tiger at present.

Now the only question is how stromng is his supply net

I were able to see the other side of the hill how much supply can he have.

Rangoo is closed now and my subs have infested the area south of Rangoon - with round the clock raids on all japanese bases he cannot have much supply stockpiled - this may come down to who bluffs best....

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 1698
RE: Rangoon or Bust - 8/23/2011 11:41:47 AM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		been thinking overnight I have decided to ground XXXIII Corps and XV Corps and put all effort into getting IV Corps up to white for the next attack

After tomorrows attack on the Toungoo line by XXXIII Corps the pressure will switch to Prome for the next assault so all my aircraft will go onto CAS or trash hauling over Prome

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 1699
RE: Rangoon or Bust - 8/23/2011 11:43:34 AM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Supply is precarious I estimate at least 2 days to get IV Corps up to the white in supply terms so from tomorrow a round the clock CAS bombardment will begin over Prome.

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 1700
RE: Rangoon or Bust - 8/23/2011 11:49:42 AM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		ps starting to look round my Soviet forces as I think I will need them - over the next few weeks i will be adjusting prep targets and beginning outline planning my Autumn 45 offensive

When I press the hammer in Manchuria I want to burn through the Japanese defences and be in Korea inside a month.

That means making sure that the Soviet 9th and 10th Air forces are ready and able to secure air superiority by D Day + 3 and unleash the Stumovhicks by Day 3 onto the Japanese Army.



Andy

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 1701
RE: Rangoon or Bust - 8/23/2011 3:43:35 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Note to all allied players - preserve at all costs your B25D1's, G's and H's they are deadly in ground attack when supported by Fighter Bombers.

Getting a strong FB Wing of mixed Beaus and Hurricanes and a Group or two of CAS Mitchells makes a huge difference

They are very very vulnerable to fighter interception so be very carefull with them - I love my D1's !!!!

A20's not as good B25C's not as good, B26's not as good - B25D1 best allied medium bomber bar none !!!! (looking forward to A26 though !!!)

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 1702
RE: Rangoon or Bust - 8/23/2011 4:33:45 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		A Lysander Sqn on recon (assuming nothing better)
3 - 5 Sqns of B25D1's/Gs
2 Sqns of Hurricane IV'/Beaus

Jap Div in open terrain

Wait three days for extra crispy toasted Jap Div

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 1703
RE: Rangoon or Bust - 8/24/2011 12:34:00 AM   
bbbf

 

Posts: 493
Joined: 7/16/2000
From: Hobart, Tasmania, Australia
Status: offline 		I love finding Jap divisions in clear hexes, it only gets better when they are in strat or move mode - just ask Herbie (1275psi)!

Never get caught without air superiority in the clear as either side (especially armour) - although the weight of Allied AA later on helps to get some payback on the persecutors, I find I have very light AA losses with my strikes on the Japanese.

Do you have any plans to eliminate/neutralise Port Blair?

_____________________________

Robert Lee

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Post #: 1704
RE: Rangoon or Bust - 8/24/2011 1:08:59 AM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Breaking news

Paratroopers and Glider Borne Infantry assaulted Bassein today but failed to take the base by coup de main (but only just !!!)

PZB moved the blocking Div off my LOC that meant IV Corps went into the white on supply and was able to attack and take Prome - BUT the japanese had evacced on the same day so we took an empty base.

With IV and XV Corps joining hands at Prome and XXXIII Corps driving on Toungoo and my supply situation miraculously better because of the re opening of the Ramree overland route I need to think about next moves.

Bassein is now only a matter of time and that really means Rangoon must be undefendable.

PZB is out of town tomorrow so I have time to think but my instinct is to keep after him with all speed and keep up the skeer.

Several of his Divs have been retreated and if Rangoon opens and my supply situation starts to look good then PZB has a major problem.


(in reply to bbbf)
Post #: 1705
RE: Rangoon or Bust - 8/24/2011 6:32:09 AM   
Blackhorse


Posts: 1983
Joined: 8/20/2000
From: Eastern US
Status: offline
quote:

PZB is out of town tomorrow so I have time to think but my instinct is to keep after him with all speed and keep up the skeer.


Follow your instincts.



. . . and congratulations on a successful Burma campaign. Textbook.

_____________________________

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Oddball: Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?
Moriarty: Crap!

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 1706
RE: Rangoon or Bust - 8/24/2011 3:10:33 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		it aint over yet.

Having studied the replay I think Bassien may not be a slam dunk but having the 7 Divs of IV Corps and 4 Divs of XV Corps join up shuld give me enough punch to push through to Rangoon.

PZB actually timed the evac from Prome very well he is a master of timing.

I will need to go back through and work out where I am but in general I am 'reasonably' confident that I can take Rangoon - however I would much prefer that PZB over commit to keeping the place.

This is a diversion

if PZB pulls back digs in and by avoiding a mobile battle can free up some reserves thats a bad thing.

PZB has tried to fight a fluid battle and its cost him - three stong Corps backed up by strong air are hard to deal with when all you are putting in the way are single Divs.

PZB had a lot of armour in theatre he committed a Div to block XV Corps a Div to block IV Corps and a Div to block XXXIII Corps - he never concentrated his armour behind a solid crust of Infantry Divs and I am not sure why - he left a lot of Inf Divs sitting up by Taung Gyi when I think they would have been better back diggin in with the armoured Divs echeloned behind them concentrated for a couter attack.

One lucky retreat and a Corps could have been routed.

As it is PZB has so far committed a full Corps worth of Armoured Divs piecemeal and without infantry support not sure why

(in reply to Blackhorse)
Post #: 1707
RE: Rangoon or Bust - 8/24/2011 3:32:56 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Reviewed story so far

just look at this

Japanese had 4 main concentrations committed excluding the 3 - 4 Divs out in the boonies or on my LOC that are more or less out of the fight.

8th Area Army at Tang Gyi with 6th Guards, 21st and 38th Divs and 7th Tk Bde (so out of the fight as I never intended to use that road)

15th Army blocking XV Corps advance in the centre (37th Div and 3rd Tank Div and a pair of indpt Regts - all retreated at least once

in front of Toungoo 2nd Tank Div, 22nd Recon Regt and 42nd Inf Regt all retreated at least once after heavy air attacks and XXIII Corps attack looks like a pair of Divs at Toungoo itself as well but they may have 5th Guards Div that was retreated and mauled in the Magwe battles

At Prome 9th, 11th Divs an Indpt Mixed Bde and a regt plus Guards tank Div

I just look at that disposition of force PZB was obviously trying to assemble a Panzer Group but has committed them piecemeal and allowed 2 of the 3 Divs to be retreated with heavy losses as they tried to stand up to a full Corps in Indian/Brit infantry backed by air in close terrain.

I dont think Japanese Armoured Divs are blessed with large numbers of organic engineers so I dont think they dig in especially well


(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 1708
RE: Rangoon or Bust - 8/24/2011 3:35:52 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Had I given him time to re organise or had he abandoned north Burma earlier i could have been facing 2+ dug in Inf Divs interlocked in bad terrain with a powerfull Panzer Group in reserve ready to counter attack.

The lesson from this I need to keep the pressure up and not delay PZB could still assemble a powerfull force like that if I dont break through to Rangoon quickly and if I give hime time to entrench on a lone say around Moulmein or Tavoy I could still suffer badly

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 1709
RE: Rangoon or Bust - 8/24/2011 5:40:20 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Actually looking at that again

thats 3 Full Japanese Armoured Divs and an Idpt Bde

Remember most of my armour is in Australia.

Guards tank was committed to a battle in bad terrain with 5th Indian Div where the Indian Infantry successfully 'crumbled' the Division with successive attacks
2nd Tank Div was retreated by XXXIII Corps and suffered a lot of casualties
3rd Tank Div was retreated by XV Corps heavy casualties again

Why were they committed so piecemeal they are poor at digging and are not suited to defensive operations had this force been concentrated (as it still could be) into an iron fist I could be in trouble.

XV Corps is light on A/T arty weapons.
XXXIII Corps is light on arty and has a Chinese Corps attached which is poor v armour.

3 massed armoured divs thrown at either of these corps in open ground with air cover could have been (and still could be nasty....)

I need more of my own armour back in Burma to counter this force - but Burma is a Diversion so maybe I shouldnt.

III Indian Corps currently at Perth with the majority of my armour should be preseved for a future attack

My Infantry Divs have performed wonderfully well only really 20th Indian Div is damaged enough to be out of the fight for a few weeks while it recovers disablements.

Most of the rest are in decent shape I actually don't need an admin pause I should keep on pushing until the monsoon hits

< Message edited by Andy Mac -- 8/24/2011 5:43:21 PM >

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 1710
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