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US standard railroad gauge - Bureaucrats are forever - 8/27/2011 9:15:41 AM   
guctony


Posts: 669
Joined: 6/27/2009
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Most of you should already know it but I wanted to share

US standard railroad gauge - Bureaucrats are forever.
The US Standard railroad gauge (distance between the rails) is 4 feet, 8.5 inches. That's an exceedingly odd number. Why was that gauge used? Because that's the way they built them in England, and the US railroads were built by English expatriates.

Why did the English people build them like that? Because the first rail lines were built by the same people who built the pre-railroad tramways, and that's the gauge they used.

Why did they use that gauge then? Because the people who built the tramways used the same jigs and tools that they used for building wagons, which used that wheel spacing.

Okay! Why did the wagons use that odd wheel spacing? Well, if they tried to use any other spacing the wagons would break on some of the old, long distance roads, because that's the spacing of the old wheel ruts.

So who built these old rutted roads? The first long distance roads in Europe were built by Imperial Rome for the benefit of their legions. The roads have been used ever since.

And the ruts? The initial ruts, which everyone else had to match for fear of destroying their wagons, were first made by Roman war chariots. Since the chariots were made for or by Imperial Rome they were all alike in the matter of wheel spacing.

Thus, we have the answer to the original question. The United States standard railroad gauge of 4 feet, 8.5 inches derives from the original specification for an Imperial Roman army war chariot. Specs and Bureaucracies live forever.

So, the next time you are handed a specification and wonder what horse's ass came up with it, you may be exactly right. Because the Imperial Roman chariots were made to be just wide enough to accommodate the back ends of two war horses.

Now the twist to the story. . . .

There's an interesting extension of the story about railroad gauge and horses' behinds. When we see a Space Shuttle sitting on the launch pad, there are two big booster rockets attached to the sides of the main fuel tank. These are the solid rocket boosters, or SRBs. The SRBs are made by Thiokol at a factory in Utah. The engineers who designed the SRBs might have preferred to make them a bit fatter, but the SRBs had to be shipped by train from the factory to the launch site. The railroad line to the factory runs through a tunnel in the mountains. The SRBs had to fit through that tunnel. The tunnel is slightly wider than a railroad track, and the railroad track is about as wide as two horses' behinds.

So a major design feature of what is arguably the world's most advanced transportation system was determined by the width of a horse's ass!

_____________________________

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"Sovereignty is not given, it is taken."
"After having lost their lives on this land they have become our sons as well."
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Post #: 1
RE: US standard railroad gauge - Bureaucrats are forever - 8/27/2011 9:34:30 AM   
RHoenig


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[image][URL][http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/580/bureaucracy.gif/][/URL][/image]

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Post #: 2
RE: US standard railroad gauge - Bureaucrats are forever - 8/27/2011 9:35:10 AM   
ilovestrategy


Posts: 3611
Joined: 6/11/2005
From: San Diego
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That just sounds ass backwards!

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Post #: 3
RE: US standard railroad gauge - Bureaucrats are forever - 8/27/2011 10:31:53 AM   
JeffroK


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I see you havent looked at an Australian railway map then!

Anyway, 4ft 8in makes for 2 narrow horses, the Celtic war chariots were some 2 metres wide, PLUS

http://www.mmdtkw.org/VRomanRoads.html
What about those road ruts? Many human guides and guidebooks will tell you that they were worn into the stones by Roman war chariots. There has also been a long-standing urban legend supposedly linking the standard gauge of railroad tracks to Roman road ruts and the width of the backsides of Roman war-chariot horse teams. More than 2000 Internet sites carry the legend, but it's all bunkum, as both the archeological and railroad communities know. The professionals also know that, while wear may have deepened and broadened some ruts slightly, they were invariably carved into the roads intentionally and by hand to keep traffic going the way it was planned to go. Ruts were carved into narrow sections or through gates like those in the Forum Transitorium or between the famous stepping stones in Pompeii to prevent side-slipping and to keep the wagons "on track". In tight corners, for example at the corner of the Temple of Julius Caesar, carved ruts were curved to nudge the front wheels of four-wheeled carts around: articulated front axles wouldn't be invented until several hundred years after the fall of the Empire. (The lack of articulated front axles was also the real reason that Roman surveyors aimed for strictly straight roads.) Roman roads in the countryside were "high crowned" for drainage, much higher in the middle than at the curbed edges, and ruts were carved into them to keep heavy wagons from sliding toward the edges and tearing up the curb stones when passing in opposite directions. The distance between ruts was essentially irrelevant since the drover would only have to find a rut with wheels on one side to keep his wagon on track. Roman Road Ruts info is contained in http://www.unc.edu/courses/rometech/public/content/transport/Adam_Pawluk/Contruction_and_Makeup_of_.htm. The urban legend is debunked at http://www.railway.org/railroadgauge.htm.

Dont try the links, they seem dead!

< Message edited by JeffK -- 8/27/2011 10:39:01 AM >


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Post #: 4
RE: US standard railroad gauge - Bureaucrats are forever - 8/27/2011 3:24:57 PM   
guctony


Posts: 669
Joined: 6/27/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffK

I see you havent looked at an Australian railway map then!

Anyway, 4ft 8in makes for 2 narrow horses, the Celtic war chariots were some 2 metres wide, PLUS

http://www.mmdtkw.org/VRomanRoads.html
What about those road ruts? Many human guides and guidebooks will tell you that they were worn into the stones by Roman war chariots. There has also been a long-standing urban legend supposedly linking the standard gauge of railroad tracks to Roman road ruts and the width of the backsides of Roman war-chariot horse teams. More than 2000 Internet sites carry the legend, but it's all bunkum, as both the archeological and railroad communities know. The professionals also know that, while wear may have deepened and broadened some ruts slightly, they were invariably carved into the roads intentionally and by hand to keep traffic going the way it was planned to go. Ruts were carved into narrow sections or through gates like those in the Forum Transitorium or between the famous stepping stones in Pompeii to prevent side-slipping and to keep the wagons "on track". In tight corners, for example at the corner of the Temple of Julius Caesar, carved ruts were curved to nudge the front wheels of four-wheeled carts around: articulated front axles wouldn't be invented until several hundred years after the fall of the Empire. (The lack of articulated front axles was also the real reason that Roman surveyors aimed for strictly straight roads.) Roman roads in the countryside were "high crowned" for drainage, much higher in the middle than at the curbed edges, and ruts were carved into them to keep heavy wagons from sliding toward the edges and tearing up the curb stones when passing in opposite directions. The distance between ruts was essentially irrelevant since the drover would only have to find a rut with wheels on one side to keep his wagon on track. Roman Road Ruts info is contained in http://www.unc.edu/courses/rometech/public/content/transport/Adam_Pawluk/Contruction_and_Makeup_of_.htm. The urban legend is debunked at http://www.railway.org/railroadgauge.htm.

Dont try the links, they seem dead!



Thanks it become more educative then it seemed.

_____________________________

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(in reply to JeffroK)
Post #: 5
RE: US standard railroad gauge - Bureaucrats are forever - 8/27/2011 5:26:07 PM   
Numdydar

 

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Here is a better link that works

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2538/was-standard-railroad-gauge-48-determined-by-roman-chariot-ruts

Which highlights that the OP is NOT true. Although it does make a good story.

(in reply to guctony)
Post #: 6
RE: US standard railroad gauge - Bureaucrats are forever - 8/27/2011 6:12:21 PM   
USSAmerica


Posts: 18715
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Graham, NC, USA
Status: offline
So what is the true origin of the 4' 8.5" standard railroad gauge?  

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Post #: 7
RE: US standard railroad gauge - Bureaucrats are forever - 8/27/2011 7:17:38 PM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: guctony

Most of you should already know it but I wanted to share

US standard railroad gauge - Bureaucrats are forever.
The US Standard railroad gauge (distance between the rails) is 4 feet, 8.5 inches. That's an exceedingly odd number. Why was that gauge used? Because that's the way they built them in England, and the US railroads were built by English expatriates.

Why did the English people build them like that? Because the first rail lines were built by the same people who built the pre-railroad tramways, and that's the gauge they used.

Why did they use that gauge then? Because the people who built the tramways used the same jigs and tools that they used for building wagons, which used that wheel spacing.

Okay! Why did the wagons use that odd wheel spacing? Well, if they tried to use any other spacing the wagons would break on some of the old, long distance roads, because that's the spacing of the old wheel ruts.

So who built these old rutted roads? The first long distance roads in Europe were built by Imperial Rome for the benefit of their legions. The roads have been used ever since.

And the ruts? The initial ruts, which everyone else had to match for fear of destroying their wagons, were first made by Roman war chariots. Since the chariots were made for or by Imperial Rome they were all alike in the matter of wheel spacing.

Thus, we have the answer to the original question. The United States standard railroad gauge of 4 feet, 8.5 inches derives from the original specification for an Imperial Roman army war chariot. Specs and Bureaucracies live forever.

So, the next time you are handed a specification and wonder what horse's ass came up with it, you may be exactly right. Because the Imperial Roman chariots were made to be just wide enough to accommodate the back ends of two war horses.

Now the twist to the story. . . .

There's an interesting extension of the story about railroad gauge and horses' behinds. When we see a Space Shuttle sitting on the launch pad, there are two big booster rockets attached to the sides of the main fuel tank. These are the solid rocket boosters, or SRBs. The SRBs are made by Thiokol at a factory in Utah. The engineers who designed the SRBs might have preferred to make them a bit fatter, but the SRBs had to be shipped by train from the factory to the launch site. The railroad line to the factory runs through a tunnel in the mountains. The SRBs had to fit through that tunnel. The tunnel is slightly wider than a railroad track, and the railroad track is about as wide as two horses' behinds.

So a major design feature of what is arguably the world's most advanced transportation system was determined by the width of a horse's ass!


Well, just for the record. We American's have been led by many horse asses over the years. Nothing new here......


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Post #: 8
RE: US standard railroad gauge - Bureaucrats are forever - 8/27/2011 8:06:57 PM   
Numdydar

 

Posts: 3211
Joined: 2/13/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: USS America

So what is the true origin of the 4' 8.5" standard railroad gauge?  


From the link I provided above

"What about Roman war chariots and rutted roads? Roman "rutways," many of which were purposely built to standard dimensions, were close to modern railroad tracks in width. For example, the rutways at the buried cities of Pompeii and Herculaneum averaged four-foot-nine center to center, with a gauge of maybe four-foot-six. But there's no direct connection between Roman rutways and 18th-century tramways. The designers of each were dealing with a similar problem, namely hauling wheeled vehicles behind draft animals. So it's not surprising they came up with similar results. (Thanks to University of Munich economic historian Douglas Puffert, an expert on railroad gauge, for kind assistance in tracing this story.)"

So the railway width and the wagon wheel width are not connected at all. They are similar because, as noted above, both tramways and Roman wagons "...were dealing with a similar problem, namely hauling wheeled vehicles behind draft animals."

< Message edited by Numdydar -- 8/27/2011 11:41:59 PM >

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Post #: 9
RE: US standard railroad gauge - Bureaucrats are forever - 8/27/2011 10:41:04 PM   
JeffroK


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quote:

ORIGINAL: USS America

So what is the true origin of the 4' 8.5" standard railroad gauge?  

It is probably some equation regarding weight, wheel size, engine power, speed, cost divided by a random number.

We have at least 3 major guages, with a few minor freight tramways and Melbourne's Tram network.

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Post #: 10
RE: US standard railroad gauge - Bureaucrats are forever - 8/27/2011 10:42:58 PM   
JeffroK


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From Wiki

Despite early attempts at coordination, Australia has three different rail gauges in one country. The then three mainland colonies adopted 1,435 mm (4 ft 8 1⁄2 in) in 1848, with some states passing legislation to that effect.[13] Then there was a change to 1,600 mm (5 ft 3 in) at the instigation of New South Wales, which was agreed to by those then three states. Then New South Wales reverted to standard gauge while Victoria and South Australia stayed with broad gauge, having ordered rolling stock to that gauge. Queensland was built with 1,067 mm (3 ft 6 in) to save costs. Narrow gauge worked well enough for light traffic to persuade Tasmania, Western Australia and parts of South Australia to follow suit. Dual and standard gauge lines have been introduced to the main interstate routes. Pilbara iron ore railways have always been standard gauge.


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Post #: 11
RE: US standard railroad gauge - Bureaucrats are forever - 8/30/2011 3:46:44 PM   
jeffk3510


Posts: 4132
Joined: 12/3/2007
From: Kansas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: guctony

Most of you should already know it but I wanted to share

US standard railroad gauge - Bureaucrats are forever.
The US Standard railroad gauge (distance between the rails) is 4 feet, 8.5 inches. That's an exceedingly odd number. Why was that gauge used? Because that's the way they built them in England, and the US railroads were built by English expatriates.

Why did the English people build them like that? Because the first rail lines were built by the same people who built the pre-railroad tramways, and that's the gauge they used.

Why did they use that gauge then? Because the people who built the tramways used the same jigs and tools that they used for building wagons, which used that wheel spacing.

Okay! Why did the wagons use that odd wheel spacing? Well, if they tried to use any other spacing the wagons would break on some of the old, long distance roads, because that's the spacing of the old wheel ruts.

So who built these old rutted roads? The first long distance roads in Europe were built by Imperial Rome for the benefit of their legions. The roads have been used ever since.

And the ruts? The initial ruts, which everyone else had to match for fear of destroying their wagons, were first made by Roman war chariots. Since the chariots were made for or by Imperial Rome they were all alike in the matter of wheel spacing.

Thus, we have the answer to the original question. The United States standard railroad gauge of 4 feet, 8.5 inches derives from the original specification for an Imperial Roman army war chariot. Specs and Bureaucracies live forever.

So, the next time you are handed a specification and wonder what horse's ass came up with it, you may be exactly right. Because the Imperial Roman chariots were made to be just wide enough to accommodate the back ends of two war horses.

Now the twist to the story. . . .

There's an interesting extension of the story about railroad gauge and horses' behinds. When we see a Space Shuttle sitting on the launch pad, there are two big booster rockets attached to the sides of the main fuel tank. These are the solid rocket boosters, or SRBs. The SRBs are made by Thiokol at a factory in Utah. The engineers who designed the SRBs might have preferred to make them a bit fatter, but the SRBs had to be shipped by train from the factory to the launch site. The railroad line to the factory runs through a tunnel in the mountains. The SRBs had to fit through that tunnel. The tunnel is slightly wider than a railroad track, and the railroad track is about as wide as two horses' behinds.

So a major design feature of what is arguably the world's most advanced transportation system was determined by the width of a horse's ass!


I think it is ironic how VASTLY similar the majority of things are here in the US in comparison to England....yet we wanted independence many years ago...

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Post #: 12
RE: US standard railroad gauge - Bureaucrats are forever - 8/30/2011 4:06:51 PM   
Schanilec

 

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So you want the original revised revision revised? A standard in my world.

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RE: US standard railroad gauge - Bureaucrats are forever - 8/30/2011 5:06:34 PM   
oldman45


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I like the OP's version. Makes a much better story

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RE: US standard railroad gauge - Bureaucrats are forever - 8/31/2011 3:59:59 AM   
zzodr


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I read the OP's topic a few years ago.. it is funny and I like it, but it isn't true.

http://www.snopes.com/history/american/gauge.asp

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RE: US standard railroad gauge - Bureaucrats are forever - 8/31/2011 7:34:50 AM   
JeffroK


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I'm trying to work out how to comment about what is behind a horses arse without being rude or political.

Sorry, failed.

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Post #: 16
RE: US standard railroad gauge - Bureaucrats are forever - 8/31/2011 7:39:23 AM   
LoBaron


Posts: 4776
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From: Vienna, Austria
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quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton
Well, just for the record. We American's have been led by many horse asses over the years. Nothing new here......


You mean...even before the advent of fast food culture?

Sorry, couldn´t resist.

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Post #: 17
RE: US standard railroad gauge - Bureaucrats are forever - 9/2/2011 12:33:54 PM   
m10bob


Posts: 8622
Joined: 11/3/2002
From: Dismal Seepage Indiana
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton


quote:

ORIGINAL: guctony

Most of you should already know it but I wanted to share

US standard railroad gauge - Bureaucrats are forever.
The US Standard railroad gauge (distance between the rails) is 4 feet, 8.5 inches. That's an exceedingly odd number. Why was that gauge used? Because that's the way they built them in England, and the US railroads were built by English expatriates.

Why did the English people build them like that? Because the first rail lines were built by the same people who built the pre-railroad tramways, and that's the gauge they used.

Why did they use that gauge then? Because the people who built the tramways used the same jigs and tools that they used for building wagons, which used that wheel spacing.

Okay! Why did the wagons use that odd wheel spacing? Well, if they tried to use any other spacing the wagons would break on some of the old, long distance roads, because that's the spacing of the old wheel ruts.

So who built these old rutted roads? The first long distance roads in Europe were built by Imperial Rome for the benefit of their legions. The roads have been used ever since.

And the ruts? The initial ruts, which everyone else had to match for fear of destroying their wagons, were first made by Roman war chariots. Since the chariots were made for or by Imperial Rome they were all alike in the matter of wheel spacing.

Thus, we have the answer to the original question. The United States standard railroad gauge of 4 feet, 8.5 inches derives from the original specification for an Imperial Roman army war chariot. Specs and Bureaucracies live forever.

So, the next time you are handed a specification and wonder what horse's ass came up with it, you may be exactly right. Because the Imperial Roman chariots were made to be just wide enough to accommodate the back ends of two war horses.

Now the twist to the story. . . .

There's an interesting extension of the story about railroad gauge and horses' behinds. When we see a Space Shuttle sitting on the launch pad, there are two big booster rockets attached to the sides of the main fuel tank. These are the solid rocket boosters, or SRBs. The SRBs are made by Thiokol at a factory in Utah. The engineers who designed the SRBs might have preferred to make them a bit fatter, but the SRBs had to be shipped by train from the factory to the launch site. The railroad line to the factory runs through a tunnel in the mountains. The SRBs had to fit through that tunnel. The tunnel is slightly wider than a railroad track, and the railroad track is about as wide as two horses' behinds.

So a major design feature of what is arguably the world's most advanced transportation system was determined by the width of a horse's ass!


Well, just for the record. We American's have been led by many horse asses over the years. Nothing new here......



We do this on purpose,sometimes with a most reckless abandon, as if ignorance and stupidity were virtue.

We Americans like to show off that way, as we tend to poke fun of ourselves on occasion, even at the expense of putting absolute clowns in our White House......(Don't get me started on Chester A Arthur.)

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Post #: 18
RE: US standard railroad gauge - Bureaucrats are forever - 9/2/2011 1:03:49 PM   
ckammp

 

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Chester A. Arthur was no clown.

He enacted important and much-needed civil service reform, he was a staunch opponent of racist anti-Chinese immigration laws, and (perhaps of most importance to this forum) he oversaw the rebirth of the US Navy, which at the time (1882) consisted of only 52 mostly obsolete ships.

And all this was accomplished in less than one full term in office, and with Arthur in poor health. (He would die less than 2 years after leaving office)

It is unfortunate that a man of his ability is so unappreciated today.

(in reply to m10bob)
Post #: 19
RE: US standard railroad gauge - Bureaucrats are forever - 9/2/2011 2:40:23 PM   
Shark7


Posts: 7937
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffK


quote:

ORIGINAL: USS America

So what is the true origin of the 4' 8.5" standard railroad gauge?  

It is probably some equation regarding weight, wheel size, engine power, speed, cost divided by a random number.

We have at least 3 major guages, with a few minor freight tramways and Melbourne's Tram network.


You also have to take height, or rather top-heaviness into consideration as well.

I also wonder, and I've never measured it out, but what is the standard (or average) lateral wheelbase of a car? Is it also similar to the rail gauge?

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Post #: 20
RE: US standard railroad gauge - Bureaucrats are forever - 9/2/2011 3:11:26 PM   
John 3rd


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From: La Salle, Colorado
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Course it goes without speaking that we don't have the services of the Space Shuttle anymore. I think this COULD lead to a comment about horse's backsides--so I'll stop right there...



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Post #: 21
RE: US standard railroad gauge - Bureaucrats are forever - 9/2/2011 3:39:49 PM   
mike scholl 1

 

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Actually, the truely important part is that there WAS a standard guage..., even if it was pulled straight out of someone's backside. Look at the poor Confederacy, where virtually every RR had it's own guage, and cargos had to be unloadedd and re-loaded 2, 3, or even 4 times during a long journey. Standardization was a blessing, whatever it's size.

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Post #: 22
RE: US standard railroad gauge - Bureaucrats are forever - 9/2/2011 3:51:23 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
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From: La Salle, Colorado
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mike scholl 1

Actually, the truely important part is that there WAS a standard guage..., even if it was pulled straight out of someone's backside. Look at the poor Confederacy, where virtually every RR had it's own guage, and cargos had to be unloadedd and re-loaded 2, 3, or even 4 times during a long journey. Standardization was a blessing, whatever it's size.


Careful Mike you might bring Canoerebel into this. He always monitors for ANY comments about "The War of Northern Aggression!"



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Post #: 23
RE: US standard railroad gauge - Bureaucrats are forever - 9/2/2011 6:24:30 PM   
m10bob


Posts: 8622
Joined: 11/3/2002
From: Dismal Seepage Indiana
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ckammp

Chester A. Arthur was no clown.

He enacted important and much-needed civil service reform, he was a staunch opponent of racist anti-Chinese immigration laws, and (perhaps of most importance to this forum) he oversaw the rebirth of the US Navy, which at the time (1882) consisted of only 52 mostly obsolete ships.

And all this was accomplished in less than one full term in office, and with Arthur in poor health. (He would die less than 2 years after leaving office)

It is unfortunate that a man of his ability is so unappreciated today.



Very educational comment..How about Warren G Harding?

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Post #: 24
RE: US standard railroad gauge - Bureaucrats are forever - 9/2/2011 10:52:16 PM   
Blackhorse


Posts: 1983
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From: Eastern US
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mike scholl 1

Actually, the truely important part is that there WAS a standard guage..., even if it was pulled straight out of someone's backside. Look at the poor Confederacy, where virtually every RR had it's own guage, and cargos had to be unloadedd and re-loaded 2, 3, or even 4 times during a long journey. Standardization was a blessing, whatever it's size.


Mike's main point is exactly correct, it was important to have a standard -- any standard.

From "The Railroads of the Confederacy": Most CSA RRs were one of three gauges: 4'8.5", 5', or 5'6". Most of the RRs in Virginia and North Carolina were standard gauge; nearly all the RRs in South Carolina, Georgia and Tennessee were 5'. So most intra-regional troop movements were not affected by gauge changes, and some long troop movements only changed gauge once.

However, more often than not in the CSA, even same-gauge tracks of different railroads did not meet when they ran into the same city. Pre-war, local business interests fought hard to keep the railroad stations apart, so that potential customers would have to move across the city -- and use local drayage firms -- to get from one station to another. Some cities had ordinances prohibiting "union stations" (one common station for all the railroads serving a city). So southern troops and supplies were forced to march across cities to change trains due to the parochialism of local businesses.

I'm sorry for taking this discussion off-track, er, off-topic, but how often in a War in the Pacific forum can I hope to run across a topic that links my profession (transportation) and my hobby (civil war military history)?


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WitP-AE -- US LCU & AI Stuff

Oddball: Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?
Moriarty: Crap!

(in reply to mike scholl 1)
Post #: 25
RE: US standard railroad gauge - Bureaucrats are forever - 9/2/2011 10:54:43 PM   
Pascal_slith


Posts: 1651
Joined: 8/20/2003
From: back in Commiefornia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mike scholl 1

Actually, the truely important part is that there WAS a standard guage..., even if it was pulled straight out of someone's backside. Look at the poor Confederacy, where virtually every RR had it's own guage, and cargos had to be unloadedd and re-loaded 2, 3, or even 4 times during a long journey. Standardization was a blessing, whatever it's size.


This was one of James McPherson's points about why the North won. Standard gauge throughout the Union... And rebuilding of Southern railroads by them in each occupied territory.

Not to pour too much water on this very entertaining discussion, here is the explanation from Wikipedia, which essentially says we have some early civilization or pre-historic bureaucrat to thank for 'standard gauge'.

I quote:

Historically, the choice of gauge was partly arbitrary and partly a response to local conditions. Narrow-gauge railways are cheaper to build and can negotiate sharper curves but broad-gauge railways give greater stability and permit higher speeds.

Sometimes railway companies chose their own gauge, such as the Great Western Railway choosing 2,140 mm (7 ft 0 1⁄4 in).

Other times, statutes required railways to use a particular gauge, such as the Thomasville, Tallahassee and Gulf Railroad having to use standard gauge.
[edit] Early origins of the standard gauge

There is an urban legend that Julius Caesar specified a legal width for chariots at the width of standard gauge, causing road ruts at that width, so all later wagons had to have the same width or else risk having one set of wheels suddenly fall into one deep rut but not the other.[2][3]

In fact, the origins of the standard gauge considerably pre-date the Roman Empire, and may even pre-date the invention of the wheel. The width of prehistoric vehicles was determined by a number of interacting factors which gave rise to a fairly standard vehicle width of a little under 2 m (6.6 ft). These factors have changed little over the millennia, and are still reflected in today's motor vehicles. Road rutting was common in early roads, even with stone pavements. The initial impetus for the ruts probably came from the grooves made by sleds and slide cars dragged over the surfaces of ancient trackways. Since early carts had no steering and no brakes, negotiating hills and curves was dangerous, and cutting ruts into the stone helped them negotiate the hazardous parts of the roads.[4]

Neolithic wheeled carts found in Europe had gauges varying from 1.30 to 1.75 m (4 ft 3 in to 5 ft 9 in). By the Bronze age, wheel gauges appeared to have stabilized between 1.40 to 1.45 m (4 ft 7 in to 4 ft 9 in) which was attributed to a tradition in ancient technology which was perpetuated throughout European history.[5] The ancient Assyrians, Babylonians, Persians and Greeks constructed roads with artificial wheelruts cut in rock spaced the wheelspan of an ordinary carriage. Such ancient stone rutways connected major cities with sacred sites, such as Athens to Eleusis, Sparta to Ayklia, or Elis to Olympia. The gauge of these stone grooves was 1.38 to 1.44 m (4 ft 6 in to 4 ft 9 in). The largest number of preserved stone trackways, over 150, are found on Malta.[6]

Some of these ancient stone rutways were very ambitious. Around 600 BC the citizens of ancient Corinth constructed the Diolkos, which some consider the world's first railway, a hard poros limestone road with grooved tracks along which large wooden flatbed cars carrying ships and their cargo were pulled by slaves or draft animals. The grooves were at 1.67 m (5 ft 6 in) centres.[7]

The Roman Empire actually made less use of stone trackways than the prior Greek civilization because the Roman roads were much better than those of previous civilizations. However, there is evidence that the Romans used a more or less consistent wheel gauge adopted from the Greeks throughout Europe, and brought it to England with the Roman conquest of Britain in AD 43. After the Roman departure from Britain, this more-or-less standard gauge continued in use, so the wheel gauge of animal drawn vehicles in 19th century Britain was 1.4 to 1.5 m (4 ft 7 in to 4 ft 10 in). In 1814 George Stephenson copied the gauge of British coal wagons in his area (about 1.42 m or 4 ft 8 in) for his new locomotive, and for technical reasons widened it slightly to achieve the modern railway standard gauge of 1.435 m (4 ft 81⁄2 in).[4]
[edit] Standard gauge
Main article: Standard gauge

What became the standard gauge of 4 ft 8 1⁄2 in (1,435 mm) was chosen for the first main-line railway, the Liverpool and Manchester Railway (L&MR), by the British engineer George Stephenson; the de facto standard for the colliery railways where Stephenson had worked was 4 ft 8 in (1,422 mm). Whatever the origin of the gauge, it seemed to be a satisfactory choice: not too narrow and not too wide.

Isambard Kingdom Brunel, engineer of the Great Western Railway, chose the broader gauge of 7 ft 0 1⁄4 in (2,140 mm) because it offered greater stability and capacity at high speed. Brunel's first locomotives were exactly 7 foot gauge and had no slack, hence the extra quarter inch. The Eastern Counties Railway chose 5 ft (1,524 mm) gauge, but soon realised that lack of compatibility was a mistake and changed to Stephenson's gauge. The conflict between Brunel and Stephenson is often referred to as the Gauge War. Several non-interconnecting lines in Scotland were 5 ft 6 in (1,676 mm) but were changed to standard gauge for compatibility reasons.

In 1845 a British Royal Commission recommended adoption of 4 ft 8 1⁄2 in (1,435 mm) as standard gauge in Great Britain, 5 ft 3 in (1,600 mm) in Ireland. The following year the Parliament of the United Kingdom passed the Gauge Act, which required that new railways use the standard gauge. Except for the Great Western Railway's broad gauge, few main-line railways in Great Britain used a different gauge. The last Great Western line was converted to standard gauge in 1892.

The link is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Track_gauge#History


< Message edited by Pascal -- 9/2/2011 10:59:36 PM >


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(in reply to mike scholl 1)
Post #: 26
RE: US standard railroad gauge - Bureaucrats are forever - 9/2/2011 11:02:08 PM   
Blackhorse


Posts: 1983
Joined: 8/20/2000
From: Eastern US
Status: offline
quote:

Very educational comment..How about Warren G Harding?


From "Dave Barry Slept Here: A Sort-of History of the United States":

"[After the Teapot Dome Scandal] Warren G. Harding, showing the kind of class that Richard Nixon could only dream about, died."


From the poems of e.e. cummings:

"warren harding is dead.
warren g. harding is dead
warren gamiel harding is dead
The only man, woman, or child who ever wrote a simple declarative sentence with seven grammatical errors is dead."



_____________________________

WitP-AE -- US LCU & AI Stuff

Oddball: Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?
Moriarty: Crap!

(in reply to m10bob)
Post #: 27
RE: US standard railroad gauge - Bureaucrats are forever - 9/2/2011 11:12:11 PM   
mike scholl 1

 

Posts: 1265
Joined: 2/17/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Blackhorse

quote:

Very educational comment..How about Warren G Harding?


From "Dave Barry Slept Here: A Sort-of History of the United States":

"[After the Teapot Dome Scandal] Warren G. Harding, showing the kind of class that Richard Nixon could only dream about, died."


From the poems of e.e. cummings:

"warren harding is dead.
warren g. harding is dead
warren gamiel harding is dead
The only man, woman, or child who ever wrote a simple declarative sentence with seven grammatical errors is dead."




Enlightening. How do you feel about Millard Fillmore?

(in reply to Blackhorse)
Post #: 28
RE: US standard railroad gauge - Bureaucrats are forever - 9/2/2011 11:20:14 PM   
Blackhorse


Posts: 1983
Joined: 8/20/2000
From: Eastern US
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mike scholl 1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Blackhorse

quote:

Very educational comment..How about Warren G Harding?


From "Dave Barry Slept Here: A Sort-of History of the United States":

"[After the Teapot Dome Scandal] Warren G. Harding, showing the kind of class that Richard Nixon could only dream about, died."


From the poems of e.e. cummings:

"warren harding is dead.
warren g. harding is dead
warren gamiel harding is dead
The only man, woman, or child who ever wrote a simple declarative sentence with seven grammatical errors is dead."




Enlightening. How do you feel about Millard Fillmore?



Since e.e. cummings never wrote a poem about him, I'm undecided.


_____________________________

WitP-AE -- US LCU & AI Stuff

Oddball: Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?
Moriarty: Crap!

(in reply to mike scholl 1)
Post #: 29
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