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Making History III: fiva55 vs Sillyflower

 
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Making History III: fiva55 vs Sillyflower - 8/20/2011 11:42:21 AM   
fiva55


Posts: 376
Joined: 3/4/2011
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline 		Having just one ongoing GC with Manstein at the moment, I figured the time was right to challenge Sillyflower for a game.

I originally intended to play as the Germans, since that is what I am most experienced with.
As usual, I planned to write an AAR of the game, but realizing that most AARs are already of the German side, I decided to take on the Soviet side.
I haven't played the Soviets in a 41 GC before, so hopefully this AAR will also be helpful to new Soviet players.

Houserules
1 Latest beta updates
2 No T1 Riga gambit
3 Only 1 bombing attack per city per turn, and same for airbases after T1.
3 No soviet amphib before dec 41, and none west of Sevastopol or Odessa unless the unless Soviets hold S and O respectively
4 Victory conditions: Axis control 270 points (not 290). Soviets win if they manage to capture Berlin before May of 45.

_____________________________

Providence Lost: A 42-45 GC
Making History I & II
Operation Blue: Completed
Red Storm Rising
Post #: 1
The Initial Onslaught - 8/20/2011 11:51:24 AM   
fiva55


Posts: 376
Joined: 3/4/2011
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline 		The Initial Onslaught

Early morning of 22 June 1941, suddenly, a storm of artillery fire shatters the previously calm along the Soviet border. Minutes later, the first wave of the German soldiers deployed along the border lunged forward, achieving total tactical surprise, and utterly shattering the Soviet border defences.

Within a week's time, German forces had destroyed the Western Front's forward elements and severely mauled those of the Southwestern and Northwestern Fronts.

Meanwhile, Luftwaffe planes had struck Soviet airfields in the the forward areas, destroying large numbers airplanes, most of them before they could even take off. These strikes succeeded in destroying almost 5000 planes, ensuring German air superiority for time to come.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by fiva55 -- 8/20/2011 12:25:49 PM >

_____________________________

Providence Lost: A 42-45 GC
Making History I & II
Operation Blue: Completed
Red Storm Rising

(in reply to fiva55)
Post #: 2
A Desperate Situation - 8/20/2011 12:22:30 PM   
fiva55


Posts: 376
Joined: 3/4/2011
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline 		A Desperate Situation

In the first week of fighting, German forces had destroyed or isolated much of the Soviet forward defences, and stood ready to to resume their advance once supplies and infantry support caught up with the the fast moving panzer groups.

Of the Northwest Front in the north, only 27th Army survived somehow intact. Now commanded by Tobukhin, this army had the vital task of manning and holding the Pskov Line, delaying the Germans as long as possible, in order to allow reserves to be railed in and defend Leningrad and its approaches.

In the center, tattered remnants of Western Front hastily retreated east towards the Dnepr. Here, the Red army defended the Smolensk landbridge by the hastily reinforced remnants of 4th Army, now commanded by Rokossovsky, while the riverline itself was defended by the somewhat intact 13th Army, under Filatov.

In the south, most of Kiev Military District best formations were isolated. Of the surviving formations (corps and divisions),most were directly attached to the Front HQ, complicating the command structure in this sector. The only somewhat reliable formation surviving the initial onslaught was 16th Army, which now formed an temporarily erected defense line together with the heavily overloaded 9th Army of Odessa Military District.


< Message edited by fiva55 -- 8/20/2011 5:38:04 PM >

_____________________________

Providence Lost: A 42-45 GC
Making History I & II
Operation Blue: Completed
Red Storm Rising

(in reply to fiva55)
Post #: 3
Turn 1: Northern Sector - 8/20/2011 5:33:48 PM   
fiva55


Posts: 376
Joined: 3/4/2011
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline 		End of Turn 1, June 22 1941
Northern Sector
Clear Weather

27th Army forms up a defensive line along the Velikaya. Put in refit mode, given 3 RR brigades and 4 Arty Regiments, this army, commanded by Tobukhin, will hopefully be able prevent the Germans from capturing Pskov for a few turns.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Providence Lost: A 42-45 GC
Making History I & II
Operation Blue: Completed
Red Storm Rising

(in reply to fiva55)
Post #: 4
Turn 1: Central Sector - 8/20/2011 5:37:27 PM   
fiva55


Posts: 376
Joined: 3/4/2011
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline 		End of Turn 1, June 22 1941
Central Sector
Clear Weather

A rearguard is left behind in Minsk, while 4th Army and 13th Army have pulled back in order to start fortifying the landbridge and the Dnepr.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Providence Lost: A 42-45 GC
Making History I & II
Operation Blue: Completed
Red Storm Rising

(in reply to fiva55)
Post #: 5
Turn 1: Southern Sector - 8/20/2011 5:42:24 PM   
fiva55


Posts: 376
Joined: 3/4/2011
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline 		End of Turn 1, June 22 1941
Southern Sector
Clear Weather

With the tattered remnants of Kiev MD and Odessa MD, a temporary halt line could be erected. There is a gap in the Soviet lines near Kishinev, but hopefully that won't become a problem.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Providence Lost: A 42-45 GC
Making History I & II
Operation Blue: Completed
Red Storm Rising

(in reply to fiva55)
Post #: 6
RE: Turn 1: Southern Sector - 8/20/2011 8:05:46 PM   
Manstein63


Posts: 688
Joined: 6/30/2010
Status: offline 		Welcome to the dark side.
I think that you should do rather well as the Soviets as you are quite aware of what the Germans are able to acheive.
Best of luck to you in this game.
Manstein63

(in reply to fiva55)
Post #: 7
The butterfly effect - 8/21/2011 12:31:59 PM   
fiva55


Posts: 376
Joined: 3/4/2011
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline 		Thanks Manstein for the support.

Here is a small treat.

Memoirs of Rokossovsky

June 26, 1941
Central Sector
South of Vitebsk

The situation seems bleak. In the first week of the war, large numbers of our troops have been
either killed or forced into captivity. The mere mention of Germans panzers seems to inflict panic in
the men, and neither threats nor reassurances by our Commissars seems to improve the morale.

Clearly a victory, even a small one, is needed to convince our troops that not all is lost.

Than, an opportunity arises. Having encountered no resistance after the first week of fighting, a
German panzer division (19th), having grown complacent, decides to halt on clear terrain to
rest and refit, just 20 miles of our lines, as if to mock us!

Quickly, a counter-attack is organized. Two of our best rifle divisions (4th Army), supported by a
rifle division of 13th Army, are ordered to storm the German positions. Knowing the importance of
their task, the men selected for this seemingly suicidal task do not hesitate following their orders.

Such is the ferocity of their attack, that our troops manage to overwhelm the German positions,
forcing them to retreat, leaving behind 40% of their vehicles!




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by fiva55 -- 8/23/2011 12:06:26 AM >

_____________________________

Providence Lost: A 42-45 GC
Making History I & II
Operation Blue: Completed
Red Storm Rising

(in reply to Manstein63)
Post #: 8
The Soviet Strategic Defence plan - 8/23/2011 12:38:07 AM   
fiva55


Posts: 376
Joined: 3/4/2011
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline 		The Soviet Strategic Defence plan

Defensive doctrine
Forward defence
Defence in depth

Priority of Regions
The main priority is the northern sector. Every effort must be made to prevent the Germans from capturing Leningrad.
Failing that, 4th Panzergroup should be occupied in the north for as long as possible.

Command and Control
Starting from turn 1, attempts are made to give each front at least one strong army with a decent leader. This
strong army, always in refit mode, will be used to form a main line of defence, while weaker shell armies are used
to slow down the invaders. Ideally, all the high morale rifle divisions should be concentrated in this army.

Saving Soviet Industry
The first 4 turns, priority will be given to railing in armies over evacuating industry.

Red Airforce
Despite heavy losses, the Red airforce has been in action from the very first week of the war. Depleted formations
will be send to the reserve on a weekly basis. Aircraft update has been set to manual.


_____________________________

Providence Lost: A 42-45 GC
Making History I & II
Operation Blue: Completed
Red Storm Rising

(in reply to fiva55)
Post #: 9
End of Turn 2 - 8/23/2011 9:35:12 AM   
fiva55


Posts: 376
Joined: 3/4/2011
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline 		End of Turn 2, June 26 1941
Northern Sector
Clear Weather

The north has been reinforced with 3 armies. 11th Army now joins 27th Army defending the Pskov line. 24th Army is building fall back positions for the Pskov line. 20th Army has started manning the Luga line.

The baltic states have been left undefended. To defend it would require at least another army. Instead, it has been left clear of Soviet presence. Hopefully it will convince to Germans to overcommit in a left hook.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by fiva55 -- 8/23/2011 9:36:08 AM >

_____________________________

Providence Lost: A 42-45 GC
Making History I & II
Operation Blue: Completed
Red Storm Rising

(in reply to fiva55)
Post #: 10
RE: End of Turn 2 - 8/23/2011 9:42:15 AM   
fiva55


Posts: 376
Joined: 3/4/2011
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline 		End of Turn 2, June 26 1941
Central Sector
Clear Weather

The Smolenks landbridge has been reinforced by 22nd Army. Troops of Orel MD have started to move in to help defend the Dnepr line. 10th Army has been formed and ordered to form a screening line in front of the Dnepr line.

One succesfully counterattack has been made by elements of 4th and 13th Army.

1 armaments point has been evacuated from Mogilev.






Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Providence Lost: A 42-45 GC
Making History I & II
Operation Blue: Completed
Red Storm Rising

(in reply to fiva55)
Post #: 11
RE: End of Turn 2 - 8/23/2011 9:50:19 AM   
fiva55


Posts: 376
Joined: 3/4/2011
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline 		End of Turn 2, June 26 1941
Southern Sector
Clear Weather

This sector has been reinforced by 19th and 21th Army, while 5th Army (already attached to Southwestern front, but almost without troops) has been reformed.

Three lines have been formed to defend the direct approach towards Kiev and the Dnepr. The first line consist out of corps directly attached to the Front. Most of these troops are of low calibre. The second line is formed by armies with decent strenght, while the last lines consist of a checkerboard of mobile units, with orders to cut off lone German spearheads.

Odessa and Nikoleav have been left clear, due to lack of troops. Hopefully this will convince the Germans to send their entire panzer group this direction.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Providence Lost: A 42-45 GC
Making History I & II
Operation Blue: Completed
Red Storm Rising

(in reply to fiva55)
Post #: 12
End of Turn 3 - 8/23/2011 6:01:04 PM   
fiva55


Posts: 376
Joined: 3/4/2011
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline 		End of Turn 3, July 3 1941
Northern Sector
Clear Weather

27th and 24th Army have been pulled back to form fall back lines. 11th Army stays behind manning the Pskov line.
With Germans panzers low on fuel, the line should be able to hold for another week. 5th Airborne corps has started digging in to prevent a right hook.

Meanwhile, 28th Army has arrived in the North, with orders to complete the Luga line, together with 20th A.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Providence Lost: A 42-45 GC
Making History I & II
Operation Blue: Completed
Red Storm Rising

(in reply to fiva55)
Post #: 13
End of Turn 3 - 8/23/2011 6:05:33 PM   
fiva55


Posts: 376
Joined: 3/4/2011
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline 		End of Turn 3, July 3 1941
Central Sector
Clear Weather

Panzer strength in this sector is surprisingly low. A forward defence is still doable. 31th Army has been moved in to reinforce the sector. Together with elements of 10th Army, they are to form a fall back line.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Providence Lost: A 42-45 GC
Making History I & II
Operation Blue: Completed
Red Storm Rising

(in reply to fiva55)
Post #: 14
End of Turn 3 - 8/23/2011 6:17:07 PM   
fiva55


Posts: 376
Joined: 3/4/2011
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline 		End of Turn 3, July 3 1941
Southern Sector
Clear Weather

Sillyflower seems to have concentrated the bulk of his armour in this sector. Consequently, I have send the best of the Soviet troops to this sector, and have spend considerable amounts of AP sorting out the command mess.

This all pays out this turn, when the Germans are unable to break through cleanly through the main line of defence. With the strongest divisions of my forces untouched, counter attacks could be launched. These attacks managed to temporarily relieve trapped units, while isolating the German spearhead at the same time.

At the end of the turn, the lines are pulled back a bit, while 18th Army has been railed in to reinforce the sector and block the direct approach towards Kiev.





Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Providence Lost: A 42-45 GC
Making History I & II
Operation Blue: Completed
Red Storm Rising

(in reply to fiva55)
Post #: 15
Turn 4: Tolbukhin's counterattack - 8/26/2011 3:36:53 PM   
fiva55


Posts: 376
Joined: 3/4/2011
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline 		Turn 4, July 10 1941
Northern Sector
Clear Weather

Not entirely unexpected, Sillyflower managed to establish a bridgehead across the Velikay, just north of Pskov.
Possession of that hex allows easy access to a row of unfortified clear hexes, greatly jeopardizing my forward
defence, especially since the Luga line has yet to be completely fortified.

Thus, I had the option to either pull back Northwest Front (Zhukov), or try to launch a counter-attack. Naturally,
I chose to attack:




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by fiva55 -- 8/26/2011 3:46:40 PM >

_____________________________

Providence Lost: A 42-45 GC
Making History I & II
Operation Blue: Completed
Red Storm Rising

(in reply to fiva55)
Post #: 16
End of Turn 4 - 8/26/2011 3:45:35 PM   
fiva55


Posts: 376
Joined: 3/4/2011
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline 		End of Turn 4, July 10 1941
Northern Sector
Clear Weather

Northwest front remains in a forward position. 27th and 24th are positioned to guard the direct approach towards Leningrad, while 11th and 8th Army have been positioned to block a right hook.






Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Providence Lost: A 42-45 GC
Making History I & II
Operation Blue: Completed
Red Storm Rising

(in reply to fiva55)
Post #: 17
End of Turn 4 - 8/26/2011 3:49:16 PM   
fiva55


Posts: 376
Joined: 3/4/2011
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline 		End of Turn 4, July 10 1941
Central Sector
Clear Weather

Reserve front (31st and 22nd A) have been moved forward to slow down any German thrust, while Western front has been pulled back to form new lines.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Providence Lost: A 42-45 GC
Making History I & II
Operation Blue: Completed
Red Storm Rising

(in reply to fiva55)
Post #: 18
End of Turn 4 - 8/26/2011 3:56:25 PM   
fiva55


Posts: 376
Joined: 3/4/2011
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline 		End of Turn 4, July 10 1941
Southern Sector
Clear Weather

Southwestern and Southern Front have been pulled back out of reach of the German infantry. Anticipating either an attack towards Kiev (industry evacuated) or Cherkassy, those areas have been reinforced the most.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Providence Lost: A 42-45 GC
Making History I & II
Operation Blue: Completed
Red Storm Rising

(in reply to fiva55)
Post #: 19
End of Turn 5 - 8/30/2011 1:19:58 PM   
fiva55


Posts: 376
Joined: 3/4/2011
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline 		End of Turn 5, July 17 1941
Northern Sector
Clear Weather

Northwest Front is slowly pulling back.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by fiva55 -- 8/30/2011 1:24:37 PM >

_____________________________

Providence Lost: A 42-45 GC
Making History I & II
Operation Blue: Completed
Red Storm Rising

(in reply to fiva55)
Post #: 20
End of Turn 5 - 8/30/2011 1:23:54 PM   
fiva55


Posts: 376
Joined: 3/4/2011
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline 		End of Turn 5, July 17 1941
Central Sector
Clear Weather

An expected breakthrough near Velikie Luki, which could have been completely cut off if the calvary division I left behind had refit. As it is, only the lead motorized division is surrounded by 29th Army, forcing the Germans to send more units that direction to relief it.






Attachment (1)

< Message edited by fiva55 -- 8/30/2011 1:25:15 PM >

_____________________________

Providence Lost: A 42-45 GC
Making History I & II
Operation Blue: Completed
Red Storm Rising

(in reply to fiva55)
Post #: 21
End of Turn 5 - 8/30/2011 1:29:39 PM   
fiva55


Posts: 376
Joined: 3/4/2011
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline 		End of Turn 5, July 17 1941
Southern Sector
Clear Weather

A counter attack briefly opens a supply route to some isolated units. Southwestern Front and Southern Front remain in place, though some divisions have been moved to put more units between 1st Panzer Group and Cherkassy. As it is, the Germans can still move either north, directly east or south, forcing me to somewhat evenly distribute my forces.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Providence Lost: A 42-45 GC
Making History I & II
Operation Blue: Completed
Red Storm Rising

(in reply to fiva55)
Post #: 22
Kudos to you dude - 8/30/2011 11:00:54 PM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		I'm really impressed with your "remaking history" style my friend.  It's a winner.  I love it.  Mind if I borrow some of your style to do my AAR's?  Details and pictures to go with the words has revealed your situation with clarity unmatched.  Keep up the good work.  This AAR should be required reading by Soviet WITE players.  

(in reply to fiva55)
Post #: 23
RE: End of Turn 2 - 8/31/2011 1:44:29 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: fiva55
1 armaments point has been evacuated from Mogilev.

Why did you evacuate only 1 Armaments point from Mogilev? Ran out of rail cap.?

(in reply to fiva55)
Post #: 24
RE: End of Turn 2 - 8/31/2011 10:40:35 AM   
fiva55


Posts: 376
Joined: 3/4/2011
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

quote:

ORIGINAL: fiva55
1 armaments point has been evacuated from Mogilev.

Why did you evacuate only 1 Armaments point from Mogilev? Ran out of rail cap.?


I did ran out of rail cap. As I mentioned before, the first four turns, I prefer to rail in troops before evacuating factories, allowing me to form reasonably strong and dug in defence lines that will buy more time, thus hopefully allowing me to evacuate the cities with large numbers of industry at leisure in the later turns.

In hindsight, in this instance I could have evacuated Mogilev first and that move in troops, still ensuring that I have reasonably strong lines. Still, I stuck to my original gameplan, resulting in the lose of a few armaments points, but the next few turns will show us if it was worth it.

As for borrowing my style for your AAR, go ahead, I know I borrowed enough of other AAR writers.


_____________________________

Providence Lost: A 42-45 GC
Making History I & II
Operation Blue: Completed
Red Storm Rising

(in reply to larryfulkerson)
Post #: 25
RE: End of Turn 5 - 8/31/2011 11:14:39 AM   
TulliusDetritus


Posts: 5521
Joined: 4/1/2004
From: The Zone™
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: fiva55

End of Turn 5, July 17 1941
Southern Sector
Clear Weather

A counter attack briefly opens a supply route to some isolated units. Southwestern Front and Southern Front remain in place, though some divisions have been moved to put more units between 1st Panzer Group and Cherkassy. As it is, the Germans can still move either north, directly east or south, forcing me to somewhat evenly distribute my forces.





Excellent excellent excellent

This is what I will be doing when I'll be starting another PBEM game (as a Soviet, of course!).

When Sabre told me successive lines were the way to go (as opposed to er... funny carpets) I obviously believed him.

Now I can see these successive lines in action in 1941. Excellent as a learning tool

< Message edited by TulliusDetritus -- 8/31/2011 11:15:13 AM >

_____________________________

a nu cheeki breeki iv damke

(in reply to fiva55)
Post #: 26
RE: End of Turn 2 - 8/31/2011 11:49:23 AM   
bigbaba


Posts: 1238
Joined: 11/3/2006
From: Koblenz, Germany
Status: offline 		amazing defeisive work. espacialy the attack at pskov which ruined a complete german panzerkorps! getting 190.000 men and 3100 guns together in a concentrated attack in the 2nd week is impressive.

(in reply to fiva55)
Post #: 27
RE: Turn 4: Tolbukhin's counterattack - 9/1/2011 9:43:28 AM   
KenchiSulla


Posts: 2948
Joined: 10/22/2008
From: the Netherlands
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: fiva55

Turn 4, July 10 1941
Northern Sector
Clear Weather

Not entirely unexpected, Sillyflower managed to establish a bridgehead across the Velikay, just north of Pskov.
Possession of that hex allows easy access to a row of unfortified clear hexes, greatly jeopardizing my forward
defence, especially since the Luga line has yet to be completely fortified.

Thus, I had the option to either pull back Northwest Front (Zhukov), or try to launch a counter-attack. Naturally,
I chose to attack:





Although that counterattack was an excellent job, it shows it is to "easy" to brush aside axis tanks with soviet infantry this early in the game..

_____________________________

AKA Cannonfodder

"It happened, therefore it can happen again: this is the core of what we have to say. It can happen, and it can happen everywhere.”
¯ Primo Levi, writer, holocaust survivor

(in reply to fiva55)
Post #: 28
RE: Turn 4: Tolbukhin's counterattack - 9/1/2011 10:07:36 AM   
randallw

 

Posts: 2057
Joined: 9/2/2010
Status: offline 		Perhaps this is just a result of game mechanics.  When a unit retreats all the pieces of it retreat, though perhaps in real life the elements would not move at just a single time.

Did the battle occur with 200-ish German tank crews saying "Ahhhhhh too many ants!" so they retreated in flight?  Maybe not, but those infantry and artillery units too enough hits that they didn't hold their ground, then the tanks wouldn't necessarily want to stay on their lonesome, so they would hang around long enough for the infantry and artillery to get some spacing on the attackers, buying time for the rest of the division.  Or maybe none of this makes sense, who knows.

(in reply to KenchiSulla)
Post #: 29
RE: Turn 4: Tolbukhin's counterattack - 9/1/2011 11:09:11 AM   
KenchiSulla


Posts: 2948
Joined: 10/22/2008
From: the Netherlands
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: randallw

Perhaps this is just a result of game mechanics.  When a unit retreats all the pieces of it retreat, though perhaps in real life the elements would not move at just a single time.

Did the battle occur with 200-ish German tank crews saying "Ahhhhhh too many ants!" so they retreated in flight?  Maybe not, but those infantry and artillery units too enough hits that they didn't hold their ground, then the tanks wouldn't necessarily want to stay on their lonesome, so they would hang around long enough for the infantry and artillery to get some spacing on the attackers, buying time for the rest of the division.  Or maybe none of this makes sense, who knows.



It is a result of gamemechanics. It is just adding up that wins the day. Make sure the odds (numbers translating into combat value) are big enough and no matter the skill of defending troops the attacker simply overwhelms by numbers... Losses after combat are maybe 3-4% for the germans (the rest being retreat attrition).. No way they would abandon that bridgehead...

The annoying part is that the axis player lost 50% of his tanks for those two PZ divisions...

He did, however, move his troops into a unfavourable position.. Clear hex, 4 hex sides controlled by russians with a ton of rifle divisions in striking range? Ouch.. Perhaps having a division west of the Pskov hex in reserve mode could have helped..

< Message edited by Cannonfodder -- 9/1/2011 11:10:59 AM >

_____________________________

AKA Cannonfodder

"It happened, therefore it can happen again: this is the core of what we have to say. It can happen, and it can happen everywhere.”
¯ Primo Levi, writer, holocaust survivor

(in reply to randallw)
Post #: 30
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