Observations & Need Help - How do you create point only balanced battle.

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Observations & Need Help - How do you create point only balanced battle.

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Close Combat Series >> Close Combat: Last Stand Arnhem >> The War Room >> Observations & Need Help - How do you create point only balanced battle.

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Observations & Need Help - How do you create point only... - 8/16/2011 7:23:04 PM

SS_PanzerLeader

Posts: 14
Joined: 8/3/2011
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OK first off I really am enjoying playing this it has brought back a lot of memories and my son and I are just getting into the multi-player. I notice a lot of improvements over CC2 but also some things that seem to be missing.

1. How do you make a point only battle? In CC2 we could create a balanced battle controlling the amount of points for each player it was so much fun. THere were no restrictions on what you could by and truly provided the best balanced multi-player experience I have had in any game. A good part of the fun was the strategy involved in picking units and never knowing what an opponent might bring. Some argued that it wasn't "realistic" which was true with regard to troop composition. However with regard to testing player skill it couldn't be beaten. IT seems now no matter what I do in creating a battle all you can obtain is a lopsided battle one way or the other. Still having fun but really not what I was expecting. I am hoping I can address this and play the game like I am used to. Any help here would be awesome.
I am hoping this can be done without a mod but if a mod is needed I am hoping it wouldn't be to difficult or someone may have already addressed this. Obviously if I can do it without a mod that would be preferred.

2. The next issue I see is with the deployment zones. I used to be able to control the exact deployment zones in CC2. What happened to this and can I do this somehow? Controlling each square made it easier to balance a map.

3. I am seeing my favorite units no longer there? What happened to the Jagdtiger, Avre and Crocodile? These were all in CC2 (which I though this was based on along with CC5) I am sure others are missing too but just noticed these right off and I have explored each battle group.

Thanks for all the work on this and keeping this game alive. I wish I would have found it sooner.

SSPL

Post #: 1

RE: Observations & Need Help - How do you create point ... - 8/17/2011 4:00:52 AM

Tejszd

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Joined: 11/17/2007
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1. use the scenario editor; select the date, map and BG's then point at the map diamond press shift & left click the mouse to set the entry VL along with the points

2. in this version the deployment zone is fixed around VL's which can be set per #1

3. Those vehicles should be available to the proper BG's based on the difficulty level (recruit will get more variety and or quantity) and the date

< Message edited by Tejszd -- 8/17/2011 4:05:49 AM >

(in reply to SS_PanzerLeader)

Post #: 2

RE: Observations & Need Help - How do you create point ... - 8/17/2011 4:26:03 AM

SS_PanzerLeader

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Joined: 8/3/2011
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Thanks for replying that is what I was looking for. That addresses the point part. Is there a way to make a custom battlegroup and drop all units from all battlegroups in it so you can buy anything?

With regard to the deploy that is definitely helpful and offers some more control but is it possible to adjust them per map like before maybe by modding or is it too tied to the strategy entry points?

3. I looked in the unit text files and they don't seem to be in there. Assuming that is the totality of the units then I didn't see them unless I am looking in the wrong file. Assuming they are not can they be created and added via mod?

thx again

SSPL

(in reply to Tejszd)

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RE: Observations & Need Help - How do you create point ... - 8/17/2011 9:11:32 AM

Andrew Williams

Posts: 6116
Joined: 1/8/2001
From: Australia
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you need to create (mod) a new BG for each side that contains all the teams you want.

these can be use for h2h battles but not in the campaign etc.

_____________________________

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RE: Observations & Need Help - How do you create point ... - 8/17/2011 4:41:37 PM

xe5

Posts: 783
Joined: 5/3/2009
Status: offline

1. The 25 different team types limit a battlegroup (BG) can have in the Forcepools.txt (FP) file is far less than the total number of available team types. So you cant mod a new BG, with all the different Axis or Allied teams, and use custom point totals to buy any team, as you could in CC2 & 3. However, the number of different team types a BG can 'accumulate' in a Save Game file, via merging with other BGs and absorbing static BGs, is much larger than 25. IIRC, the Save Game file team types limit is 64, but cant find my notes on that calculation. So conceivably, modified Save Game files could be used to- a) set custom point totals for each side, and to- b) buy units from each side's customized 64 team FP ... eg. a modified Save Game file with an Allied FP that included only US AB and Brit Armor teams vs an Axis FP with only SS and FJ infantry teams. In all cases these modified Save game files would only contain 1 placeholding team such as a command unit, in its 15 team active roster.

2. Again, individual deployment zones can be specified in a Save Game file by editing the map control matrix. Each Save Game file contains a 1600 byte matrix to allow up for up to 40x40 deployment tiles to be coded for control (0=Allied control; 1=Axis control; 2=Neutral control).

Except for custom point totals, items 1 & 2 above could be accomplished using the old CC Req tool for CC4/5 to modify Save Game files. You can manually edit LSA Save Game files to have custom FPs, points and deployment areas (and various other unique customizations) but, even when you know which hexadecimal values to edit, this is a very tedious process without a helpful tool interface. Hopefully one of the few remaining CC toolmen will create a Save Game tool for LSA.

3. The Jagd Tiger, AVRE and Croc vehicles arent in LSA and would need to be re-created in a new mod. A much more accessible task that a number of modmen could accomplish as opposed to coding a new Save Game tool.

(in reply to Andrew Williams)

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RE: Observations & Need Help - How do you create point ... - 8/17/2011 10:16:22 PM

SS_PanzerLeader

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Joined: 8/3/2011
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Sweet thanks for the info guys.

Do you know where I can find the CCReq tool? I tried a few links but they were no longer working.

Any good tutorial links for CC modding that you can recommend or is someone up for making those missing units :P

thx again guys

SSPL

(in reply to xe5)

Post #: 6

RE: Observations & Need Help - How do you create point ... - 8/18/2011 12:39:43 AM

xe5

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The CCReq tool can be downloaded here. Just to be clear though - CCReq only works on CC4&5 (and only if you have an obsolete version of MS-JVM installed). The Save Game file format that the CCReq edits has changed somewhat since then, rendering the tool useless with subsequent CC versions.

(in reply to SS_PanzerLeader)

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RE: Observations & Need Help - How do you create point ... - 8/18/2011 1:45:09 AM

TAIL_GUNNER

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Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline

quote:

3. I am seeing my favorite units no longer there? What happened to the Jagdtiger, Avre and Crocodile? These were all in CC2 (which I though this was based on along with CC5) I am sure others are missing too but just noticed these right off and I have explored each battle group.

Jadgtiger is in Wacht am Rhein, AVRE and Croc are in The Longest Day..

Modding is fun, and here is my advice:

Read all you can and learn everything about the .txt files located in Data/Base/ directory. Learn also about all the various graphic files and how they are manipulated within the games. This site and closecombatseries.net have modding sub-forums with loads of useful information.

You can also download the very informative workbooks for each game on this site. They are in Excel format, but work fine in the free OpenOffice.org if you do not have Excel.

Next head to Mafi's site and download his wonderful editing tools. They are easy to use and very powerful. The guy is a genius!
http://www.ftf.claranet.de/

Soon you will be having more fun modding than playing.

GOOD LUCK.

(in reply to SS_PanzerLeader)

Post #: 8

RE: Observations & Need Help - How do you create point ... - 8/18/2011 9:08:58 PM

SS_PanzerLeader

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Joined: 8/3/2011
Status: offline

XE5: Thanks for the link to CCreq I appreciate it.

Tailgunner: I appreciate the tips I will follow up on what you have listed. I am thinking I may try to figure out how to make a couple battle groups first with most of what I am looking for in them. That way I can merge them and at least get a good chunk of units while I look into the other stuff. thanks again

SSPL

(in reply to TAIL_GUNNER)

Post #: 9

RE: Observations & Need Help - How do you create point ... - 9/13/2011 12:38:44 PM

Saxxon

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Joined: 9/7/2011
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I noted the new makeup of the game which is taken from CC4+. While those provided good strategy level layer to the game, the BG limitations were very frustrating with CC4+ vs CC2 & 3 that you could create any encounter you desired as far as force mix. The removal of that feature was a key factor in Atomic's downfall with the game.

The owner got spooked (met him at a convention) by some moron that posted in a gaming magazine calling it (force req screen) the "single most confusing screen in computer gaming history." The man had to be truly stupid because its a straitforward database with easily understood function - he just didn't know diddly about WWII units.

I and a few other fans of the game present tried to disuade him (Kieth Zabalouie of Atomic) from gutting the replayability that the force req screen created for the game, but he was convinced that some writer jerk that played the game for 45 minutes knew more about it than fans who had played 100's of hours. RIP Atomic because it spiraled down from there, Microssoft & Atomic parted ways, the new games had the strategy layer but lacked customizability unless you got into modding the game which was beyond most users.

I have modded games, but for the most part I prefer the features turnkey so I can spend more time playing and less time fixing developer oversights.

< Message edited by Saxxon -- 9/13/2011 12:41:31 PM >

(in reply to SS_PanzerLeader)

Post #: 10