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Progress question - 9/9/2011 4:54:23 PM   
kanibal

 

Posts: 19
Joined: 12/19/2006
Status: offline 		I have been reading/playing WiTPAE on and off for more than a year. I have never played more than 1 year of a grand campaign.

Recently I began a grand campaign as Japan for the first time. It is July 42 and I own all of Hawaii and China. I think the auto victory requires a 4 to 1 ratio which I currently exceed.

Did I screw up the ai by attacking deeper/faster than was the case historically? Is the ai normally unable to defend, attack or put up a fight? The ai sends out convoy after convoy unescorted. They continually send in SAGs in a piecemeal fashion. They do not protect/value their carriers the way I do and lose them early and often. I am frequently able to surround or cut off and eliminate valuable LCUs.

I have read on these forums that some of the ai behavior is scripted? Is it all just a script or does the ai actually respond, redirect or change strategy based on the human opponent tactics?

My brother and I plan to start a PBEM grand campaign soon, but I was hoping to enjoy this game in both single player and multiplayer mode....... Do the veterans of WITPAE play against the ai at all????

Thanks,

Kanibal
Post #: 1
RE: Progress question - 9/9/2011 5:02:06 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline 		In my opinion, nothing beats a human opponent. The AI just can't react to your strategy. All it can do is what it's script says to do. The AI is a great tool to learn the game. Once you play a human, you'll never go back.

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Post #: 2
RE: Progress question - 9/9/2011 5:10:44 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kanibal

I have been reading/playing WiTPAE on and off for more than a year. I have never played more than 1 year of a grand campaign.

Recently I began a grand campaign as Japan for the first time. It is July 42 and I own all of Hawaii and China. I think the auto victory requires a 4 to 1 ratio which I currently exceed.

Did I screw up the ai by attacking deeper/faster than was the case historically? Is the ai normally unable to defend, attack or put up a fight? The ai sends out convoy after convoy unescorted. They continually send in SAGs in a piecemeal fashion. They do not protect/value their carriers the way I do and lose them early and often. I am frequently able to surround or cut off and eliminate valuable LCUs.

I have read on these forums that some of the ai behavior is scripted? Is it all just a script or does the ai actually respond, redirect or change strategy based on the human opponent tactics?

My brother and I plan to start a PBEM grand campaign soon, but I was hoping to enjoy this game in both single player and multiplayer mode....... Do the veterans of WITPAE play against the ai at all????

Thanks,

Kanibal


Hi Kanibal,

Sure-there are some WiTP:AE old salts that only play against the AI. They seem to feel that such play allows them freedom to pursue as much or as little gameplay as their schedule allows. Several of them 'restrict' themselves from full-throated assaults on the AI, as the AI does have its limitations in responding to novel or ahistoric movements.

I'll yield to their expertise as well, but I seem to recall hearing that the Allied AI is more problematic than the Japanese AI in terms of AI scripting 'issues'. In other words, the Japanese AI play seems to be better than the Allied AI play. You may have got the 'worst of the worst' in terms of your game, if that makes sense.

I used to be an exclusive WiTP AI player and enjoyed it very much. I started that as an AE player, but quickly fell into PBEMs. I haven't looked back since.

ETA: GAH! I totally botched the first sentence in my reply. Corrected in bold now.



< Message edited by Chickenboy -- 9/15/2011 7:10:37 PM >

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Post #: 3
RE: Progress question - 9/9/2011 7:33:29 PM   
Lomri

 

Posts: 232
Joined: 2/6/2009
Status: offline
My understanding is that the AI is scripted, but that their are variable scripts. And indeed, I am not sure how much variation the scripts have (for instance I think the scripting language allows for some logic checking like "If X, then Y", but I don't know how deep).

It may be that the Allies AI is less well developed because the most common audience of vs AI is someone learning and the Allies make for an easier learning experience. You can tell the Japanese AI got more attention because you have an entire scenario called Ironman where Japan gets tons of toys to make it more interesting for the Allies.

That being said, you can imagine the inherit challenges between a Japanese AI and a Allied AI. The Japanese AI starts with a known board for its offensive where the Allied AI has to start with an unknown set up when it goes on the offensive.

The Japanese AI can throw some curve balls, but the more off the wall you get the less well it will react. Playing vs the AI really requires some self control. But, since you already have Hawaii, try seeing how far you can get into the West Coast vs the AI. Always wondered how that would go.

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 4
RE: Progress question - 9/10/2011 7:58:01 AM   
inqistor


Posts: 1813
Joined: 5/12/2010
Status: offline 		Whole higher level strategy is scripted. AI will react to your unusual actions if there is script taking it into consideration (and you are at right date). But I think, there is quite a lot of things, which are impossible for AI to check (it can check, if you conquered a base, but I am not sure if it can check, if you have currently KB attacking his port).

For bigger challenge try 4-day turns. When you sc... something then, it will be always BIG TIME

(in reply to kanibal)
Post #: 5
RE: Progress question - 9/12/2011 7:45:19 PM   
dr.hal


Posts: 3335
Joined: 6/3/2006
From: Covington LA via Montreal!
Status: offline 		For the "real" challenge nothing beats a "real" player unless he or she is a really BAD player... the AI is simply not smart enough to pull off the unusual or the very risky (IMHO). I have not played and am playing a number of PBEM games and the have be and are much better. So if you want a real challenge, take on a human opponent.

(in reply to inqistor)
Post #: 6
RE: Progress question - 9/13/2011 5:17:06 AM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline 		To answer the OP; yes, if you grab areas like PH and India, it will likely mess up the AI pretty bad. I beleive CB is also correct in that the JAP AI is fundamentally better than the allies AI. Reason being is that attacks have to be carefully scripted. By the time the allies want to be on the offensive, it is so hard to know exactly what shape and where there forces are. With Japan, the starting forces are exactly known. Once the attacks peter out, then it just defensive AI.

In your case, you took PH and India; key staging places that the AI assuredly assumes it has. When it doesn't, I have to beleive that it goes home to momma (get's lost and cannot react).

Anyway, as everyone has said the AI won't compare to a human player ...

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Post #: 7
RE: Progress question - 9/13/2011 3:24:35 PM   
Hemmingway

 

Posts: 15
Joined: 10/3/2009
Status: offline 		I only play against the AI. If I played PBEM I’d never do anything else. To make my game more historically accurate and more interesting I adopt some house rules. Just a few are (btw, I play 1 day turns):

I never train air groups at more than 70%. This reflects sick leave, pilots assigned to other duty, etc.

Unless it’s a war emergency (e.g., a carrier group is 2 hexes away), I have ships remain in port for at least a few days after a cruise (at least a week and preferably 2 weeks for subs).

I never let planes fly missions on the day they transfer to a new base, unless it’s only a hex or two away and then I'll let them fly at 50%.

Doing this gives me a handicap against the AI and seems to make for a more historical game.

(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 8
RE: Progress question - 9/15/2011 7:03:57 PM   
kanibal

 

Posts: 19
Joined: 12/19/2006
Status: offline 		Thanks guys for all the quick and interesting responses. I will continue on with this single player game to try and brush up on the mechanics.

I think WitPAE has provided us a tool set that is superior to any other strategy war game I have seen. Its not surprising that programming such an extensive set of tools for the ai is beyond our current ability.

I look forward to the challenge of playing my brother in a PBEM campaign later this year.

Good Gaming,

Kanibal

(in reply to Hemmingway)
Post #: 9
RE: Progress question - 9/15/2011 10:45:48 PM   
SgtSwanson


Posts: 212
Joined: 5/15/2005
From: Long Branch, NJ
Status: offline 		I have read here on the forums that there are 7 variants for Japan's AI. 6 of those are non-historical. After starting 5 games as Allies, the Southern thrust stratigy of cutting the Pacific in two via Tarawa - Baker Is - Canton Is. - Pago-Pago seems to be the most common one.

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87-93 5/502 Inf. Berlin Bde
93-95 2/502 Inf. 101st Airborne Div.
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Patch of the Week: 6th Infantry Division

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Post #: 10
RE: Progress question - 9/16/2011 4:03:09 PM   
mc3744


Posts: 1957
Joined: 3/9/2004
From: Italy
Status: offline 		I used to play the AI (years ago), then I discovered UV, then came WitP and now AE ... what's the AI again?

The fun, the thrill, the suspense of playing PBEM is not comparable to anything you can get with the AI.
I perfectly understand the time related issues of a PBEM, but the return is so much bigger with a PBEM that it's just not comparable, IMHO that is

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Post #: 11
RE: Progress question - 9/16/2011 8:20:47 PM   
Deca


Posts: 96
Joined: 11/20/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kanibal
I look forward to the challenge of playing my brother in a PBEM campaign later this year.
Kanibal


I look forward to turning China into a quagmire from hell, seeking out and destroying as many of your 23 AO as I can find, tracking your 12 BB and giggling like a school girl anytime one is sunk, call you up telling you "Another one bites the dust" everytime a CV is sunk, laughing as your well trained air pool is slowly but surely grinded down in a war of attrition, all the while whistling to the tune of "Time is on My Side" as each day goes by.....err...

....err...I meant a calm & friendly game, yeah, sure....brotherly love and all that stuff. This is purely for fun, no ill will or mean spirited nature at all, nope.....no hostile competition at all.


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Post #: 12
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