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Aircraft Training - 9/24/2011 1:46:39 PM   
Arigoth

 

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Status: offline 		Does the Leader of a "Training" airgroup matter? and if so what skills should he have?

I know you want to assign a skill level pilot of over 81 to a training group. Does it help to assign multiple?
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RE: Aircraft Training - 9/24/2011 2:24:32 PM   
n01487477


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arigoth
Does the Leader of a "Training" airgroup matter? and if so what skills should he have?

Not in my testing, but others will testify otherwise ...
quote:


I know you want to assign a skill level pilot of over 81 to a training group. Does it help to assign multiple?

IF you are talking about Tracom - It will not increase the skill of your trainee pilots but they will become ready faster.
Otherwise, if your are talking about training groups then once again in my experience it has no effect on training speed or skills of your trainees.

Once again, many people here are going to disagree with this ...



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RE: Aircraft Training - 9/24/2011 5:25:47 PM   
mc3744


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Status: offline 		I will partially disagree
My experience has been that the leader's specific skill doesn't really matter in the training.
However the generic exp level does increase the speed of training.

I've tried with two squadrons of US Marines Buffalo's. One with leader around 46 (don't remember exactly) one 60-62.
After a month the squadron with the better leader was several point ahead in general experience and in the specific skill (A2A).

I've also noticed the same with bombers and patrols but I did not "test" it (if you can call the above a test )

Just my two cents.

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RE: Aircraft Training - 9/24/2011 9:38:34 PM   
Chris21wen

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arigoth

Does the Leader of a "Training" airgroup matter? and if so what skills should he have?

I know you want to assign a skill level pilot of over 81 to a training group. Does it help to assign multiple?


In tests and observations I've carried out leader inspiration does play a roll but it is not that great. Leadership also seems to play a role.

Always train at 100% range 0. You will get very, very few op losses for max training.

I use general training first until Defense get to above 50 then swtich to more plane specific training to improve their stats. E.G Fighter require Air so use sweep or escort training.

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RE: Aircraft Training - 9/26/2011 10:08:09 PM   
Arigoth

 

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Status: offline 		Are pilots in TRACOM doing anything besides drinking saki and keeping the geisha girls active? Or do I need to move them into squadrons that are training?

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RE: Aircraft Training - 9/26/2011 10:34:46 PM   
Sredni

 

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Status: offline 		Tracom doesn't really do anything usefull. It's supposed to speed up the training that adds pilots to your pools, but it doesn't do anything useful for them. The pilots you pull out of the pools don't have higher xp (which would be a bad thing anyways imho), and neither do they have higher skills.

From my experience the group leader doesn't do much if anything, though I'll note here I've never done any statistical tests. The few times I have seen people do tests that I would judge to be accurate the leaders don't seem to play any part in training speeds.

Though I also tend to use the non pilot leaders pretty exclusively. I don't like pilot leaders.


I do assign one high experience pilot to any training group simply because the highest xp pilot doesn't seem to train skills very well in a training group. If you train a group of 33 noobs fresh out of the pools the one guy who ends up with the highest xp at the start always seems to lag behind in training. So I'd rather have one high xp pilot sit in that spot and have 32 trained pilots, rather then end up with 1 pilot with high xp but who didn't train up his skills to my usual standards. It also feels more realistic to me to have an experienced pilot in the group.

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RE: Aircraft Training - 9/26/2011 10:45:22 PM   
jeffk3510


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Status: offline 		Do you guys strip ever single plane? For example... I use all of the old fighter planes in my training groups... the Mohawk...or should I use those in less important front line areas. Can I have zero planes in my training groups? I guess I have never taken them to zero...
thanks.

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RE: Aircraft Training - 9/26/2011 10:47:47 PM   
mc3744


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Status: offline 		The training works also with 0 planes in the group.
But I can guarantee that the more the planes the faster the training. Of course any plane will do .... even the mighty Wapiti!

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RE: Aircraft Training - 9/26/2011 10:59:52 PM   
jeffk3510


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Status: offline 		The more planes the faster the training you say?

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Post #: 9
RE: Aircraft Training - 9/26/2011 11:06:11 PM   
mc3744


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jeffk3510

The more planes the faster the training you say?


Absolutely.
If you fill up the squadron to max capacity you will definitely notice the increase in speed of the training.
You don't need to "test it", it's quite obvious (I check pilot skills every turn, I'm kind of a maniac ).

But again, you can use planes not fit for the front line. It makes no difference.

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Post #: 10
RE: Aircraft Training - 9/27/2011 3:38:50 AM   
Sredni

 

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Status: offline 		yeah. It's really noticeable at the start as the allies with all your bomber squadrons. You don't have enough bombers to actually fill all your squadrons for a year or more and the squadrons that are only half full or less, train significantly slower then full squadrons.

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Post #: 11
RE: Aircraft Training - 9/27/2011 4:34:08 AM   
jmalter

 

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Status: offline 		there's a difference here,

the sqn commander is not necessarily a pilot. his inspiration influences pilot fatigue recovery & his leadership influences the # of flights per turn. the former allows training to be set to a higher level, the latter increases the rate of skill improvement. Always train at range 0 in rear-areas, but watch the fatigue %age, 100% can ocaisionally be too high.

a high-skill pilot in the sqn (assuming he's not also the leader) is said to 'improve' training. Sredni's opinion (that the highest-skill pilot trains slowest) seems a valid explanation as to why this is so.

TRACOM is really just a 'reserve pool' for 81+ pilots. they can speed up trainee graduation (the replacement pilots that are in the 12-month queue), but i've read in the forums that they're effective in groups of 10, on a per nation/branch basis.

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RE: Aircraft Training - 9/27/2011 8:31:57 AM   
Chris21wen

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jmalter

Sredni's opinion (that the highest-skill pilot trains slowest) seems a valid explanation as to why this is so.



I did some tests a while ago and they do. Pilots with low skills and experience alway train more and learn faster. Once the pilots of a training group have trained up transfer all of them out (Except for one you don't seem to be able to do that) to the reserve, fill it up and start all over again


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Post #: 13
RE: Aircraft Training - 9/27/2011 8:34:41 AM   
mc3744


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Status: offline 		I agree, training speed is a logarithmic function. Faster at lower levels slower at higher.
Also there's a limit at 70-71, I haven't seen any pilot going above that limit with training only.

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RE: Aircraft Training - 9/27/2011 8:39:14 AM   
Chris21wen

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mc3744


quote:

ORIGINAL: jeffk3510

The more planes the faster the training you say?


Absolutely.
If you fill up the squadron to max capacity you will definitely notice the increase in speed of the training.
You don't need to "test it", it's quite obvious (I check pilot skills every turn, I'm kind of a maniac ).

But again, you can use planes not fit for the front line. It makes no difference.


I concur. It's Nov 44 and I've still got group of B-17D on the west coast wth a 70+ Inp and Leadership commander set to 100% training (general until Def gets to 50 then Ground) at range 0. Every 4-6 months I get a good bunch of pilots.

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RE: Aircraft Training - 9/27/2011 11:40:05 PM   
Arigoth

 

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Status: offline 		When we train them up at what exp level do we consider them trained and start yanking them out? 50? 60? 70?

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Post #: 16
RE: Aircraft Training - 9/27/2011 11:44:01 PM   
Mike Solli


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arigoth

When we train them up at what exp level do we consider them trained and start yanking them out? 50? 60? 70?


That's a choice you have to make. I pull them out when their experience is 50+ and the skill they're training is 70+. I look at them twice a month.

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Post #: 17
RE: Aircraft Training - 9/28/2011 2:54:28 AM   
Sredni

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

That's a choice you have to make. I pull them out when their experience is 50+ and the skill they're training is 70+. I look at them twice a month.


This is what I do as well. It makes it easier to manage your training programs to have a noticeable cutoff point like 50xp/70skill for combat ready pilots.

And 50 xp seems to be a sort of switch for training as well. Once they pass 50 xp they train a lot slower.

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Post #: 18
RE: Aircraft Training - 9/28/2011 2:59:51 AM   
pompack


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mc3744

I agree, training speed is a logarithmic function. Faster at lower levels slower at higher.
Also there's a limit at 70-71, I haven't seen any pilot going above that limit with training only.


I got some as high as 77 when I ran out of replacement pilots and just let the training roll on.

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RE: Aircraft Training - 9/28/2011 6:17:06 AM   
herwin

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arigoth

When we train them up at what exp level do we consider them trained and start yanking them out? 50? 60? 70?


Exp+core skill about 120

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RE: Aircraft Training - 9/28/2011 8:56:17 AM   
mc3744


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pompack


I got some as high as 77 when I ran out of replacement pilots and just let the training roll on.


Wow
How long did it take?

Also, how do you run out of pilots?

I switch training type when I hit 70 avg. For fighter I switch to escort to increase the exp, then at 70 I switch to general to increase defense.
With bombers I switch between the various skills at 65: strafing, ground, ...

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RE: Aircraft Training - 9/28/2011 3:41:21 PM   
Chris21wen

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli


quote:

ORIGINAL: Arigoth

When we train them up at what exp level do we consider them trained and start yanking them out? 50? 60? 70?


That's a choice you have to make. I pull them out when their experience is 50+ and the skill they're training is 70+. I look at them twice a month.


50+ Exp 60+ Skill but it's on a needs basis. As Japan I suspect you do not have this luxary.

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Post #: 22
RE: Aircraft Training - 9/28/2011 4:09:11 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mc3744
Also, how do you run out of pilots?

Well, both IJNAF and IJAAF only get a certain number of trained pilot replacements 'pulled' through the system every month. It's a pretty small number. I want to say ~150/month for IJAAF (don't have the game-I'm at "work")

In addition to their trained pilot replacement, there's a nearly limitless pool of untrained replacement pilots. These guys stink, but you can still fill your training groups with 'em. Expect incoming experience levels between 6-14 or so, same with the respective skills. It will take longer to bring them up to snuff re: training than the trained replacement pilots obviously.

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RE: Aircraft Training - 9/28/2011 4:14:41 PM   
mc3744


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Status: offline 		Thanks Chickenboy
I knew that, but pompack seems to refer to a total lack of any type of pilot (it can happen - it did to me - with USSR).
If he had super green rookies he could still begin the training process, rather than keep a pilot - already over 70 - in training for what I assume must be several months.

I was therefore wondering if Japan or the Allies could run completely out of pilots like I've seen happening with USSR.

Thanks

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RE: Aircraft Training - 9/28/2011 8:12:22 PM   
pompack


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mc3744


quote:

ORIGINAL: pompack


I got some as high as 77 when I ran out of replacement pilots and just let the training roll on.


Wow
How long did it take?

Also, how do you run out of pilots?

I switch training type when I hit 70 avg. For fighter I switch to escort to increase the exp, then at 70 I switch to general to increase defense.
With bombers I switch between the various skills at 65: strafing, ground, ...


There is a limit (high but I am not sure what it is) to the total number of pilots (Japanese + Allied) that can exist. In 1945 I had pilots in the replacement pool, but when I tried to pull one I got an out-of-slots error message. Michael has a possible fix for it, but right now it is in an alternate beta series so very few people use it. Apparantly it is not an issue if you kill enough pilots, but if you try to build up a 12,000 pilot/aircraft reserve for "Downfall" kamikazes you can easily hit it if the Allies also keep every unit with the max allowed pilots.

Anyway, since I could no longer train new pilots and I had an adequate number of pilots in reserve I just left the pilots in the training units (the Japanese get a LOT of them in the late war period, the training units are most easily converted to kamikaze when the time comes). I was normally pulling pilots at skill 70, but it didn't take more than a couple of additional months to get them to 77 (the thought of a well-trained kamikaze pilot makes my head hurt but they are effective)

We ended the game in Fall 45 without a Downfall invasion, but a test with only a couple of thousand kamikaze available proved rather devestating to the Allies. What I learned from it was do not approach the Home Islands in late 45 until you have laid waste to every possible airfield with 4E bombers (from memory the Allies lost about five fleet carriers and 40 CVE, losses to an invasion fleet would have been far worse I suspect)

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RE: Aircraft Training - 9/28/2011 9:00:12 PM   
mc3744


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Status: offline 		Wow, Interesting.
I never got to '45.
Even in WitP I only got as far as the end of '44 and eventually someone (not me ) would give up.
With AE I'm in June '42, hence a long way before I'll encounter kamikazes. But it sounds like they can give some serious chances to Japan to even some odds.

Thanks for the clarification

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