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What Units to Purchase? - 10/24/2002 2:42:12 PM   
Slimey

 

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Joined: 10/23/2002
From: Soviet Canuckistan
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I want to start a WW2 campaign in North Africa, Dec. 41, but I have no clue what units I should buy. How many should I get, what quality, can you upgrade them later? I really have no clue...:confused: If someone could explain how the system works, and the best way to build up a historically accurate force, I would be very obliged. Thanks...
Post #: 1
- 10/24/2002 3:50:34 PM   
vahauser


Posts: 1644
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From: Texas
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I usually start out with a light, recon-type core. I buy lots of small fast units that I can upgrade later. By the end of the campaign my light recon force has been transformed into a heavy battle force.

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Post #: 2
- 10/24/2002 9:17:34 PM   
Ezikel

 

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Joined: 10/21/2002
From: B'ham, England
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Hmm... in a 41 desert campaign i think you get about 4100 points. 200 for your HQ. So you spend 3900 on a light recon force?! Surely im missing something

_____________________________

OFFICIAL: Stop! Stop, will you?! Stop that! Stop it! Now, look! No one
is to stone anyone until I blow this whistle! Do you understand?! Even,
and I want to make this absolutely clear, even if they do say 'Jehovah'.
CROWD: Ooooooh!...

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Post #: 3
Went looking .. - 10/24/2002 10:12:52 PM   
challenge

 

Posts: 465
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From: Austin, TX
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for another post where the discussion was about Core unit purchases. Starting is '41, Desert, whose side you on? That actually has a lot to do with what you buy.

In general the game is designed for combined arms. Infantry without support gets chewed up by armor while armor by itself gets ground into the dirt -- sand in this case. Artillery support and AT guns are essential for desert fighting as visability is often very long. Infantry and armor are, of course, the heart of the game, while recon units give you eyes and ears out beyond the next dunes. While security units to protect the backfield may not be too important against the AI, they are a necessity against a human opponant.

The size of the Core comes into play as well. For example, in my small campaign force (the one I use to test new ideas) one of my engineer platoons provides effective security. In my 200 unit Core that I'm using in the serious campaign, I have MMG platoons, Inf AT plts and either Recon or Spec Ops at my disposal as well as infantry and armor for the job. Units can be upgraded and need to b repaired between battles, but you get points to do that with.

So, the question is, where are you so far? What side and what do you want -- besides to win.

_____________________________

Challenge

War is unhealthy for die-stamped cardboard and other paper products.

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Post #: 4
- 10/24/2002 11:51:34 PM   
Slimey

 

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From: Soviet Canuckistan
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I think I just need to know how it works a bit better... How do I get points to upgrade, and when do I get the chance to do so?

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Post #: 5
- 10/25/2002 12:07:09 AM   
chief


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From: Haines City FL, USA
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Slimey, the points accumulated during the battle, for repair and replacement, become available at the end of each battle. I don't know how the game calculates same except to say the better you do the better the points. As far as a core force I used a very scientific "Wild A** Guess" the first time I tried and from that lesson I learnt what would work for my style of play. Try it, so what if you lose, check it off to a learning experience. Another stunt that might work....set both sides for machine play start game and after first turn look and see the roster, write it down, end game and set up your core force (and support) by that...just a thought. Good Luck, Good Hunting.:D :) :cool:

_____________________________

"God Bless America and All the Young men and women who give their all to protect Her"....chief

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Post #: 6
- 10/25/2002 12:17:56 AM   
vahauser


Posts: 1644
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From: Texas
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What Chief says...

Just play a small generated campaign and find out. You can easily play a 1,000-2,000 point 10-battle campaign in a weekend. I recommend starting in Poland September 1939 as the Germans and ending 10 months later (July 1940). That gives you 1 battle per month and you aren't facing too difficult opposition.

Go and do it.

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Post #: 7
- 10/25/2002 1:34:45 AM   
Slimey

 

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From: Soviet Canuckistan
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Cool, thank you... That clears stuff up.

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Post #: 8
- 10/25/2002 1:44:33 AM   
Jim1954

 

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Slimey, the North African Megacampaign, Desert Fox, uses the following composition and the size of the core force is not too large to manage for a first timer. Some people just don't care for the upkeep for a huge core force also.

1 commander (A0)

1 Mech Inf Platoon

1 Armored Car pltn ( 222's)

1 Panzer Co. (IIIe's)

1Panzer Support Plt. (IVc's or d's I don't remember which)

I think that's the core, I might have forgotten something.

Personally, I like a little more infantry presence. Look at this thread about orders of purchase and you might get a better feel for it in general.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=26539&highlight=unit+purchases


Welcome to the insanity.

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Post #: 9
- 10/25/2002 6:01:10 AM   
maniacalmonkey


Posts: 110
Joined: 7/5/2002
From: The Netherlands
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Ah! As a fellow newbie I will be glad to offer you a force that has worked very well for me. I'm just starting to get the hang of "Command-Control" now and I would advise you to get well acquainted with the game before you tackle this feature, or you will get very frustrated and say things to people you will later regret. Spent time in the tutorials yet figuring out artillery? I had a mighty hard time plotting artillery until I found this forum :D


Anyway, here goes, US WWII campaign in North Africa:


I usually go for one FO to go with the HQ unit, followed by about six heavy (81mm or 4.2") mortars. If you use limited ammo, buy an ammo truck section as well. Also, three or four sections of AT guns, each with the movers to carry them. I believe 57mm's will fit in jeeps (!) and 3" AT's can be moved with Dodge light trucks. Buy 57's or 37's now, upgrade to 3" later, save your points: Enemy tanks aren't very tough at this stage anyway.

Then, two regular infantry companies. You may want to strip them of their support platoons (Infantry AT and mortars), and add a fourth rifle platoon instead. This WILL NOT work if you have command-control switched on: The platoon will not connect to the company HQ for orders and morale purposes.

When you have these two companies, assemble two tank units: Purchase a platoon of battle tanks (M4 Shermans will do), a section of TD's, and a section of light tanks. You'll probably want to upgrade the light tanks to flame tanks later on - believe me, you'll love them :D The TD's should be upgraded to M10 Wolverines ASAP. As said, create two of these units.

Now, purchase two mechanized units: ie. mounted in half tracks. I commonly use ranger platoons for this, one ranger platoon and an infantry AT platoon will fit nicely into a platoon of five half tracks. Again, you'll want two of these units. If rangers aren't available yet (I seem to remember that), buy two Pioneer platoons instead. Either way you want units that are well-equipped to deal with tanks and fortifications.

The points you have left; Spend on jeep-mounted recon units, and fun stuff you want to experiment with. Cavalry can be cool, or maybe rather an MMG platoon to back up your infantry, or whatever else takes your fancy.


When you go to battle, use your support allowance to buy a bunch of on-board artillery sections. 75mm Howitzers are fine, six of them are sweet. Depending on the mission at hand (make sure you check the "map" and "mission" buttons in the lower left of the screen when buying support units), I will buy either another infantry company (in defensive scenarios) or trucks and helf-track to mount my core companies in. If points allow, a few more tanks can come in handy, and maybe specialized units like engineers and engineer tanks - these are useful when clearing the beach you land on of mines. Sometimes, if there is a good DZ at hand, I will buy a few platoons or a whole company of Airborne and the Dakota's to carry them, and drop them behind enemy lines to wreak havoc.

---

In battle, this force is very easy to use. Your infantry companies are the core of your battalion: They do the thick fighting, they pin the enemy down, they take the punishment, and they hold the line. The mortars support their firefights. Use your recon elements to see where the enemy is at, and to spot for your large guns. Once you have the enemy pinned, you can use your armoured units to hit them hard and fast, send them running, and plug the gap with your own infantry. The mechanized units act as reserve, so keep them near roads slightly behind your companies; They can either fortify a part of the line that seems to buckle, or race in behind the armor when they strike. The force allows you to set up a relatively easy symmetrical plan, or to focus your strike on one flank for a very powerful blow. Some things to look out for:

- In a defensive scenario, spend plenty of time placing your MG's and AT guns with good fields of fire. Flank shots and narrow fields of fire (FOF works both ways, minimze the risk of getting them caught in cross-fire) are good for you. Pre-plot your artillery a few hexes out from your line in areas where you expect the enemy to be if things go bad; This is called final defensive fire, and needs to be available FAST when the excrements hit the fast-spinning air mover.

- On offense, use the armor and mechanized platoons as spearhead, run the infantry behind them in trucks. Trucks go "boom" easy. They shouldn't get within the enemy field of fire if at all possible: Let the guys walk the last bit (they are "leg units" for a reason!) Use plenty of artillery fire to soften the enemy up, then mop up the remains.

- In all cases, recon units are invaluable to see where the enemy is. THAT IS ALL. Don't get them into firefights, they will die.

- Always be aware of the victory hexes. It has happened so often that I get carried away mowing down Italian infantry and forget to take the objective...

That's it. I hope this force works as well for you as it did for me. It does work better in defense than in offense, and if you are new you may want to reload the end of a battle sometimes to spawn a defensive battle next iso. an attack, not just because of the force, but because it is generally easier to defend and it teaches you a lot about set up, fields of fire, etc. in a "friendly" environment ;) Just ask if you want to know more!

_____________________________

When cities burn and armies turn,
and flee in disarray,
Cowards will cry 'tis best to fly
and fight another day,
But warriors know it in their marrow when they
die and fall,
It is better to have fought and lost than not have
fought at all.

(in reply to Slimey)
Post #: 10
- 10/25/2002 7:30:35 AM   
Slimey

 

Posts: 23
Joined: 10/23/2002
From: Soviet Canuckistan
Status: offline
Wow, thanks... I am getting the hang of it now. Did the arty tutorial, those Typhoons are deadly.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by maniacalmonkey
[B]Pre-plot your artillery a few hexes out from your line in areas where you expect the enemy to be if things go bad; This is called final defensive fire, and needs to be available FAST when the excrements hit the fast-spinning air mover. [/B][/QUOTE]
How do you pre-plot it? That does sound handy...

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Post #: 11
- 10/25/2002 10:39:55 AM   
Irinami

 

Posts: 746
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Florida, USA
Status: offline
Something that bears noting for fans of the Five-Star (eg, Panzer General, Allied General, etc.) series: Your core force has only as many units as it did when you purchased it--the only way to add men is to change to units with more soldiers in them. Id est, if you have 27 units (eg, D3 is a unit; D itself is a formation),you will only ever have 27 units. On the upside, battles are (I think) generated to meet your core size.

_____________________________



Newbies!!
Wild Bill's Tanks at Munda Mini-Campaign. The training campaign for comb

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Post #: 12
- 10/25/2002 6:16:03 PM   
maniacalmonkey


Posts: 110
Joined: 7/5/2002
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline
You can pre-plot artillery during the deployment phase; Go into the bombardment screen through any unit and plot your preliminary bombardment as you would normally. In this screen, you can also pre-plot artillery by selecting a hex and clicking "Target". A bombardment icon with a number will appear over the hex. Later on in the battle, you can call artillery on that hex at 0.1 delay, regardless of which unit you use to call it in etc.

_____________________________

When cities burn and armies turn,
and flee in disarray,
Cowards will cry 'tis best to fly
and fight another day,
But warriors know it in their marrow when they
die and fall,
It is better to have fought and lost than not have
fought at all.

(in reply to Slimey)
Post #: 13
Hive Mind - 10/26/2002 4:29:46 AM   
Capt. Pixel

 

Posts: 1219
Joined: 10/15/2001
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline
Some good thoughts on artillery tactics and management from the 'Collective' under the thread - 'Artillery Managment - T.O.T.' :cool:

_____________________________

"Always mystify, mislead, and surprise the enemy, if possible. "
- Stonewall Jackson

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Post #: 14
- 10/31/2002 8:38:35 PM   
Wolfleader

 

Posts: 94
Joined: 10/31/2002
Status: offline
I usually have three 4 gun battery of flak 88's, a company of PzIVe's and one or two companies of mech infantry which I upgrade to engineers later.

(in reply to Slimey)
Post #: 15
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