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SPzAbt 503 seeks volunteers. - 9/18/2011 7:58:01 PM   
sztartur2


Posts: 672
Joined: 7/24/2002
From: Budapest,Hungary
Status: offline 		The 503rd Heavy Panzer Battalion seeks volunteers to embark on the following operation.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by sztartur -- 9/18/2011 8:09:55 PM >

_____________________________

"Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.", Sun Tzu
Post #: 1
RE: SPzAbt 503 seeks volunteers. - 9/18/2011 8:04:17 PM   
sztartur2


Posts: 672
Joined: 7/24/2002
From: Budapest,Hungary
Status: offline 		Gents,

I need two or three volunteers who is willing to test for my campaign about the 503rd. I need people who are reliable, and willing to test scenarios more than once and give constructive feedback.

I have crated a campaign with 6 maps -all downloadable from this forum- and 8 scenarios. The first scenario is made public the SPzAbt 503: The bridgehead.

If you are interested you need to do the following.

1. Download and install the following maps
-Puszta 1 - Rainy,muddy, foxholed version
-Puszta 2 - Train version
-Puszta 3 - Foggy version
-Mezotur - Muddy version
-Szajol
-Turkeve
MAKE SURE TO HAVE THE LATEST VERSION!


2. Send me a PM here with your mail address.

Then I will send you the link for the scenario set and the campaign files.




< Message edited by sztartur -- 9/18/2011 8:08:44 PM >

_____________________________

"Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.", Sun Tzu

(in reply to sztartur2)
Post #: 2
RE: SPzAbt 503 seeks volunteers. - 9/18/2011 8:14:20 PM   
sztartur2


Posts: 672
Joined: 7/24/2002
From: Budapest,Hungary
Status: offline 		I have found the following resources in English for reading.

A very interesting e-book, I have not red it but I have some books listed in the bibliography.
http://expresslanka-ebook.blogspot.com/2011/07/panzerschlacht-armoured-operations-on.html

An interesting article:
http://www.historynet.com/desperate-panzer-counterattack-at-debrecen-during-world-war-ii.htm

And of course the Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Debrecen




_____________________________

"Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.", Sun Tzu

(in reply to sztartur2)
Post #: 3
RE: SPzAbt 503 seeks volunteers. - 9/18/2011 8:16:08 PM   
sztartur2


Posts: 672
Joined: 7/24/2002
From: Budapest,Hungary
Status: offline 		This picture is taken in the main street of Debrecen. I have lived there for 7 years before moving to Budapest.






Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.", Sun Tzu

(in reply to sztartur2)
Post #: 4
RE: SPzAbt 503 seeks volunteers. - 9/18/2011 8:37:24 PM   
rickier65

 

Posts: 14231
Joined: 4/20/2000
Status: offline
This looks interesting, I'm looking forward to trying it out.

thanks!
rick

(in reply to sztartur2)
Post #: 5
RE: SPzAbt 503 seeks volunteers. - 9/18/2011 8:59:37 PM   
sztartur2


Posts: 672
Joined: 7/24/2002
From: Budapest,Hungary
Status: offline 		Information about Tiger battalions:

An e-book found on the NET
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/37180814/publicPCO/campaigns/spzabt503/tigerbattalions.pdf

and of course the ever classic Armor Site
http://www.fprado.com/armorsite/tigers.htm

and of course the Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_heavy_tank_battalions





< Message edited by sztartur -- 9/18/2011 9:00:48 PM >

_____________________________

"Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.", Sun Tzu

(in reply to rickier65)
Post #: 6
RE: SPzAbt 503 seeks volunteers. - 9/21/2011 11:01:37 PM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Is there any kind of museum at Debrecen? That's one of my favorite battles on the Eastern Front. Very difficult to get good information about the fighting.

The battle is interesting though because of the confused nature of the actions involved. The weather and terrain make it very difficult to model in a scenario. At least it can be.

There is no mud in any tactical level computer wargame like the MUD on the Eastern Front and that makes it difficult to recreate the deep mud environments they often encountered.

Good Hunting.

MR


< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 9/21/2011 11:03:25 PM >

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to sztartur2)
Post #: 7
RE: SPzAbt 503 seeks volunteers. - 9/21/2011 11:21:24 PM   
sztartur2


Posts: 672
Joined: 7/24/2002
From: Budapest,Hungary
Status: offline 		MR,  there is a museum in Debrecen but not in WWII topic. The closest war museum is in Budapest.

Yes, it is very hard to find data on this period for this operation. Historians neglected it because in the communist era it was not "right" to write about the horrible losses of the red army in men and material and was politically incorrect to mention the rapes and robbing that our "liberators" have done. Some books were written, partially mentioning the events glorifying the Red Army.

There is a young historian Dr. Norbert Számvéber (whom I have the pleasure to know personally) who collected information about this and wrote books about the topic.  These books are in Hungarian. You can find the author on Facebook so If you ask nicely he may provide information.

The books he wrote:
Páncélosok a Tiszántúlon (Tanks in the land over the Tisza)
Az alföldi Páncéloscsata (Tank battle in the Hungarian Plains) -an update of the previous book
Nehézpáncélosok (Heavy Tanks) -The 503rd Panzer battalion's combat history during their stay in Hungary. This was the primary source of the campaign I made. The previous two books also use information from this book heavily.
The combat history of SS units in Hungary.

These are titles with information about the time frame and location.

Mr Számvéber wrote many other books there is one in English
SS Armour in Normandy: The Combat History of SS Panzer Regiment 12 and SS Panzerjäger Abteilung 12, Normandy 1944





_____________________________

"Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.", Sun Tzu

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 8
RE: SPzAbt 503 seeks volunteers. - 9/22/2011 2:56:44 AM   
Mobius


Posts: 10339
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sztartur

This picture is taken in the main street of Debrecen. I have lived there for 7 years before moving to Budapest.






What's that tower like building in the background for?

(in reply to sztartur2)
Post #: 9
RE: SPzAbt 503 seeks volunteers. - 9/22/2011 6:54:37 AM   
sztartur2


Posts: 672
Joined: 7/24/2002
From: Budapest,Hungary
Status: offline 		http://puszta.com/eng/programs/cikk/csonka_templom_debrecen

this is how it looked like in the beginning.

http://gallery.xorp.hu/varosok/debrecen/dregi/regidb13.jpg.html

< Message edited by sztartur -- 9/22/2011 6:55:42 AM >

_____________________________

"Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.", Sun Tzu

(in reply to Mobius)
Post #: 10
RE: SPzAbt 503 seeks volunteers. - 9/22/2011 3:31:05 PM   
Ratzki

 

Posts: 581
Joined: 8/18/2008
From: Chilliwack, British Columbia
Status: offline 		Looks better with the dome on the top.

(in reply to sztartur2)
Post #: 11
RE: SPzAbt 503 seeks volunteers. - 9/23/2011 9:04:27 AM   
rickier65

 

Posts: 14231
Joined: 4/20/2000
Status: offline
I'm playing the first battle for this. I'm taking quite a beating, but I'm closing on the Soviets. Not sure that I will survive the first scenario though. This is a battle that will have me replaying to try a different strategy I suspect.

Thanks
rick

(in reply to Ratzki)
Post #: 12
RE: SPzAbt 503 seeks volunteers. - 9/24/2011 7:16:43 PM   
sztartur2


Posts: 672
Joined: 7/24/2002
From: Budapest,Hungary
Status: offline
Rick, if you decide to restart I would suggest you to wait till I update my maps with the Hungarian houses. Will upload maps soon.



_____________________________

"Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.", Sun Tzu

(in reply to rickier65)
Post #: 13
RE: SPzAbt 503 seeks volunteers. - 9/24/2011 8:03:45 PM   
rickier65

 

Posts: 14231
Joined: 4/20/2000
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sztartur


Rick, if you decide to restart I would suggest you to wait till I update my maps with the Hungarian houses. Will upload maps soon.




I've been interupted with some otehr testing. I will see how the first battle ends and then decide if I need to restart. The soveit AT guns are a challenge. I'm probably not using the correct tactics against them.

I'll wait for your new maps to play the succeeding battle.

Thanks!
rick


Thanks

(in reply to sztartur2)
Post #: 14
RE: SPzAbt 503 seeks volunteers. - 9/25/2011 7:25:59 PM   
sztartur2


Posts: 672
Joined: 7/24/2002
From: Budapest,Hungary
Status: offline 		Besides Rick I need additional testers, so I you have the desire to try this out please send me a PM.

If you think this  campaign is no good I would be grateful to know your opinion why, and how could I make it better.



_____________________________

"Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.", Sun Tzu

(in reply to rickier65)
Post #: 15
RE: SPzAbt 503 seeks volunteers. - 9/26/2011 8:57:59 AM   
rickier65

 

Posts: 14231
Joined: 4/20/2000
Status: offline
First battle results: Most of the Tigers in the 503Bn suffered damage, one was abandoned. But the abandoned tank was recovered, and the damage was repaired.

I also earned several Iron Cross, Second class and wound badges.

The soviets held firm and had to be dug out of their postitions using both the Tigers and the Pz IVs as well as the Pz Grenadiers.

thanks
rick

(in reply to sztartur2)
Post #: 16
RE: SPzAbt 503 seeks volunteers. - 9/26/2011 10:58:05 AM   
sztartur2


Posts: 672
Joined: 7/24/2002
From: Budapest,Hungary
Status: offline 		Any improvement suggestions?

_____________________________

"Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.", Sun Tzu

(in reply to rickier65)
Post #: 17
RE: SPzAbt 503 seeks volunteers. - 9/26/2011 5:26:41 PM   
rickier65

 

Posts: 14231
Joined: 4/20/2000
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sztartur

Any improvement suggestions?


I don't think I have any. I think a couple of other players were also playing it. The scenario was longer than I usually play. I think it ended around Turn 51. But I don't play that many on 2km maps. At least one person mentioned wanting more smoke ammo.

I ran out of artillery early in the scenario, but the balance seemed pretty good to me. I don't want to say too much in the way of a spoiler, but I the Soviet AT guns were well positioned. I won, but only with a marginal victory, so it could have gone either way.

Thanks
rick

(in reply to sztartur2)
Post #: 18
RE: SPzAbt 503 seeks volunteers. - 9/30/2011 9:00:32 AM   
rickier65

 

Posts: 14231
Joined: 4/20/2000
Status: offline
I finished 2nd Scenario. This one was more straightforward and allowed me to collecxt some medals, including an Iron Cross 1st Class. I sustained some damage, but no losses, and all were repaired before leaving Mezotur the next morning.

Thanks
rick

(in reply to rickier65)
Post #: 19
RE: SPzAbt 503 seeks volunteers. - 9/30/2011 9:53:48 AM   
sztartur2


Posts: 672
Joined: 7/24/2002
From: Budapest,Hungary
Status: offline 		Good luck with the "hard morning" .

_____________________________

"Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.", Sun Tzu

(in reply to rickier65)
Post #: 20
RE: SPzAbt 503 seeks volunteers. - 9/30/2011 9:55:38 AM   
sztartur2


Posts: 672
Joined: 7/24/2002
From: Budapest,Hungary
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rick


I finished 2nd Scenario. This one was more straightforward and allowed me to collecxt some medals, including an Iron Cross 1st Class. I sustained some damage, but no losses, and all were repaired before leaving Mezotur the next morning.

Thanks
rick



Regarding damage that was the situation in the real events too. Medals are given in PCO a bit more frequently than IRL but I suppose we can live with that

_____________________________

"Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.", Sun Tzu

(in reply to rickier65)
Post #: 21
RE: SPzAbt 503 seeks volunteers. - 10/3/2011 5:29:34 AM   
eniced73

 

Posts: 245
Joined: 5/20/2009
Status: offline 		I am playing the 'rear guard' scenario.  To start the map looks nice and the scenario briefing gives sufficient information.  Do a spell check though as you have some minor grammatical and spelling errors.  I am far from an expert on this I just used Word spell check after I noticed an error.  I am only around 4 minutes in but can tell you this scenario or map is taxing my system.  I usually can run the game on high settings but not on this one.  I toned it down to med and still am only around high teens on the FPS.  Turning off grass and shadows has no real effect but turning off trees helped.  I cannot play without them so I leave them on and take the FPS hit.  I did not really like the setup at the beginning of the game but I am assuming those front line static units are on the move retreating while my armor is covering their butts.  If this is the assumed approach and then it will work.  The weather looked rainy and foggy.  I am not sure if this is due to the weather effect but my units were spotting and shooting at the enemy before I could see them (see first pic).  I had to scroll forward a bit until the enemy unit popped into view (see second pic).  Is there a setting somewhere where you can set the view distance to unlimited that way if they spot an enemy I dont have to scroll forward to see what they can see?  As you can see I had to zoom up to that tree line before that unit popped up. 



_____________________________


(in reply to sztartur2)
Post #: 22
RE: SPzAbt 503 seeks volunteers. - 10/3/2011 7:00:30 AM   
sztartur2


Posts: 672
Joined: 7/24/2002
From: Budapest,Hungary
Status: offline 		This is a feature of PCO. I believe due to performance reasons you(human player) cannot see objects farther than 500m(they are not drawn), but the units see things and fight them.

If there is any way to increase this I would like to know.

When everything is in place I'll recheck the briefings.



_____________________________

"Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.", Sun Tzu

(in reply to eniced73)
Post #: 23
RE: SPzAbt 503 seeks volunteers. - 10/3/2011 8:52:07 AM   
rickier65

 

Posts: 14231
Joined: 4/20/2000
Status: offline 		zFar is a setting that is made in Map maker, (or you can edit the xxxScene.xml). This setting affects both the LOS distance as well as the rendering, or clipping distance, if I recall. NOTE I beleive this value is in GSUs not meters. To get meters I think multiply GSUs by 2.54.

I think this is in the Map maker manual.

NOTE: there are a lot of other things that affect actual LOS distance though, that reduce it well below the max from zFar.

Thanks
Rick


< Message edited by Rick -- 10/3/2011 8:54:30 AM >

(in reply to sztartur2)
Post #: 24
RE: SPzAbt 503 seeks volunteers. - 10/3/2011 5:45:51 PM   
eniced73

 

Posts: 245
Joined: 5/20/2009
Status: offline 		You may want to check this on your maps. Just thinking that my units may be able to spot an enemy unit but i would never know unless I pan forward a bit to see what enemy icons pop up. Not sure of the impact on the frames though. I will try increasing it tonight as you state above if possible. I know the frame rate I get right now on this scenario is not that good. So I am assuming that if I increase this it will probably get worse.

_____________________________


(in reply to rickier65)
Post #: 25
RE: SPzAbt 503 seeks volunteers. - 10/3/2011 6:47:31 PM   
rickier65

 

Posts: 14231
Joined: 4/20/2000
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: eniced73

You may want to check this on your maps. Just thinking that my units may be able to spot an enemy unit but i would never know unless I pan forward a bit to see what enemy icons pop up. Not sure of the impact on the frames though. I will try increasing it tonight as you state above if possible. I know the frame rate I get right now on this scenario is not that good. So I am assuming that if I increase this it will probably get worse.


Changing this could affect play balance in a scenario. A map maker might have set this to reflect the existance of fog or rain or snow and use this to limit the LOS. Increasing it might affect frame rate.

As far as sighting enemy units, but not realizing it, checking the mini-map is one way to monitor this. If you see enemy unit blip appear on the minimpat you can then pan to that area of the map.

You might check to see if weather affects are turned on or off and try toggling that, that setting only affects the appearance not the gameplay. That might improve your framerate.

Thanks
Rick

(in reply to eniced73)
Post #: 26
RE: SPzAbt 503 seeks volunteers. - 10/4/2011 4:48:00 PM   
eniced73

 

Posts: 245
Joined: 5/20/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rick

zFar is a setting that is made in Map maker, (or you can edit the xxxScene.xml). This setting affects both the LOS distance as well as the rendering, or clipping distance, if I recall. NOTE I beleive this value is in GSUs not meters. To get meters I think multiply GSUs by 2.54.

I think this is in the Map maker manual.

NOTE: there are a lot of other things that affect actual LOS distance though, that reduce it well below the max from zFar.

Thanks
Rick



A little confused. zFar affects both the LOS and rendering or clipping distance. I understand a map maker setting this value to reflect weather but what controls the rendering clipping? Is Sztartur right that the game only renders out to 500m?




_____________________________


(in reply to rickier65)
Post #: 27
RE: SPzAbt 503 seeks volunteers. - 10/4/2011 4:49:58 PM   
eniced73

 

Posts: 245
Joined: 5/20/2009
Status: offline
quote:

You might check to see if weather affects are turned on or off and try toggling that, that setting only affects the appearance not the gameplay. That might improve your framerate.


Can you (sztartur, rick, junk) guys load this one up and let me know what type of frames you are getting? Let me know your settings too. I am just curious. Appreciated.

_____________________________


(in reply to eniced73)
Post #: 28
RE: SPzAbt 503 seeks volunteers. - 10/4/2011 5:56:26 PM   
sztartur2


Posts: 672
Joined: 7/24/2002
From: Budapest,Hungary
Status: offline 		Options: everything set to max resolution 1920X108.

High view around 15-20 very min 10. On better views 20-30-40. On the ground a bit higher.



_____________________________

"Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.", Sun Tzu

(in reply to eniced73)
Post #: 29
RE: SPzAbt 503 seeks volunteers. - 10/4/2011 7:09:45 PM   
rickier65

 

Posts: 14231
Joined: 4/20/2000
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: eniced73

quote:

You might check to see if weather affects are turned on or off and try toggling that, that setting only affects the appearance not the gameplay. That might improve your framerate.


Can you (sztartur, rick, junk) guys load this one up and let me know what type of frames you are getting? Let me know your settings too. I am just curious. Appreciated.


I initially had my setting set to High texture, and Medium LOD.

Selecting the first tank in HUD at level 2 view I had FPS of 15-17 issuing orders and 9-11 playing back.

I changed settings to LOD High and my FPS dropped to around 10-11 issueing orders and 6-7 playing back. I also tried toggling weather on and off and was surprised that this didn't seem to impact much.

This map is fairly demanding on the system.

Thanks
rick


< Message edited by Rick -- 10/4/2011 7:10:28 PM >

(in reply to eniced73)
Post #: 30
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