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RE: War Options 1941 mod - French and Thai addition

 
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RE: War Options 1941 mod - French and Thai addition - 5/29/2011 4:28:13 AM   
oldman45


Posts: 2320
Joined: 5/1/2005
From: Jacksonville Fl
Status: offline 		Very nice find, thanks

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Post #: 31
RE: War Options 1941 mod - French and Thai addition - 5/29/2011 5:05:30 AM   
Shark7


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From: The Big Nowhere
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quote:

ORIGINAL: oldman45


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jorm

now if only we could some how get the French fleet scuttled at Toulon into the scenario :-)

cheers
J


Since I used parts of this mod in mine, I wanted to justify for myself how elements of the French fleet could be there. Well I came up with this idea;

France falls in 1940 but this time there is no Vichey government. Instead the French government flee's to England and the colonies stand with it. The fleet would be split into 3 parts. One would join the British in the Med. One would join the Home Fleet, and the last part would sail to the Pacific. I assume that the Japanese simply roll over the forces in Indochina so the fleet has to make its home in the South Pacific. For the life of me I cannot remember the name of the French possessions there between Suva and Australia. The part that I am still working on is which ships go where, and what army and air forces might get out of Indochina.



While the facilities would be sorely lacking, the French did control New Caledonia, the Marquesas (Tahita with Papeete being the a good location as it is the administrative capital). There are some natural harbors in French Polynesia, though at that time they weren't capable of supporting a fleet. The French holdings in the Pacific were not as well developed as the other nations, so with the loss of Saigon, and being cut off from their Chinese concessions, they'd almost be totally dependent on the UK or US to service their ships.

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Post #: 32
RE: War Options 1941 mod - French and Thai addition - 5/29/2011 7:02:21 AM   
el cid again

 

Posts: 16922
Joined: 10/10/2005
Status: offline 		The regime in New Caledonia was pro Vichy - as was the one in Indochina. Stupid of course.
The NC regime was replaced - the population was pro Allies. If that had happened in Indochina,
and note that Ho Chi Ming was backing the FRENCH at this time - against other revolutionaries -
things might have been interesting.

(in reply to Shark7)
Post #: 33
RE: War Options 1941 mod - French and Thai addition - 6/3/2011 11:25:52 AM   
Skyland


Posts: 280
Joined: 2/8/2007
From: France
Status: offline 		Ok, i took the plunge and have decided to make a dedicated site for my mod files :

https://sites.google.com/site/waroptionswitpaemod/

This is a new version with some additionnals units and minor adjustments.

Note that the slots location of french units is now in accordance with the Editor Manual.



< Message edited by Skyland -- 6/3/2011 11:34:44 AM >

(in reply to el cid again)
Post #: 34
RE: War Options 1941 mod - French and Thai addition - 6/4/2011 3:24:54 AM   
Jorm


Posts: 545
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Melbourne
Status: offline 		Great work, ive had a look at the scenario and its very well researched especially for the THAI's, ive done quite a bit in getting info of the RTAF and this mod is really good at creating the OOB for WWII

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Post #: 35
RE: War Options 1941 mod - French and Thai addition - 6/9/2011 4:23:37 AM   
dwg

 

Posts: 319
Joined: 1/22/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: oldman45


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jorm

now if only we could some how get the French fleet scuttled at Toulon into the scenario :-)

cheers
J


Since I used parts of this mod in mine, I wanted to justify for myself how elements of the French fleet could be there.


One of the options presented to the French at Mers el Kebir was that they could sail to Martinique and be demilitarized. It seems to me that if the demilitarization proved to be the sticking point (rather than the historical situation of Gensoul getting his nose out of joint at perceived slights and everything spiralling out of control), then they potentially might have settled for the French sailing for Indochina, well beyond German influence. That would give the French a Pacific battleline of Dunkerque, Strasbourg, Provence, and Bretagne, backed by Commandant Teste and a bunch of destroyers. And given that solution they would likely also pick up Lorraine and the four cruisers at Alexandria, Richelieu at Dakar and potentially the cruiser force (Gloire, Georges Leygues and Montcalm) en route to join her.

Which is a tidy little force ;)

Still a Vichy force, of course, but that little technicality didn't stop the Japanese strong-arming them into cooperation and then eventually attacking them anyway. A strong enough force in Indochina might well have chosen to take umbrage at any attempt to strong-arm them, and the Japanese might also have decided that they could not afford so large a force left in their rear while they moved on Singapore. And once the shooting starts, working for a Vichy government several thousand miless away isn't going to make much difference to cooperating with ABDA.

< Message edited by dwg -- 6/9/2011 4:29:51 AM >

(in reply to oldman45)
Post #: 36
RE: War Options 1941 mod - French and Thai addition - 6/9/2011 4:33:33 AM   
oldman45


Posts: 2320
Joined: 5/1/2005
From: Jacksonville Fl
Status: offline 		Not a bad suggestion, but in "my war" there is no Vichey. The government flees to England and the Colonies stand with the exiled government. So while I can do anything I want with the navy, I am trying to make a resonable guess where the units would go. My first pass at this would be the fast modern BB's would be split between the Atlantic and Pacific. The old BB's would stay in the Med. Not sure how to divide up the cruisers and destroyers.

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Post #: 37
RE: War Options 1941 mod - French and Thai addition - 6/9/2011 7:18:49 PM   
anarchyintheuk

 

Posts: 3921
Joined: 5/5/2004
From: Dallas
Status: offline 		Imo basing that kind of fleet there would have been frought w/ difficulties ranging from stocking 13.5" shells to moving the fleet administratrion from NA/Vichy to providing maintenance facilities and personnel sufficient for a fleet base.

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Post #: 38
RE: War Options 1941 mod - French and Thai addition - 6/11/2011 8:55:40 AM   
inqistor


Posts: 1813
Joined: 5/12/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: oldman45

Not a bad suggestion, but in "my war" there is no Vichey. The government flees to England and the Colonies stand with the exiled government. So while I can do anything I want with the navy, I am trying to make a resonable guess where the units would go. My first pass at this would be the fast modern BB's would be split between the Atlantic and Pacific. The old BB's would stay in the Med. Not sure how to divide up the cruisers and destroyers.

Actually, plan was to evacuate government to North Africa. Whole airforce was send there already.
Obviously, there will be no Vichy, and I doubt any colony will ally itself with puppet-government established by Germany.
Also, considering what happened so-far, Italy Navy will cease to exist in 1941, with both England, and France Navies in Mediterranean, so it is safe to assume quite lots of ships will be available for Indian Ocean.

Here is great page about French forces in 1940. You can predict what ships, and airgroups could be available for colony defences.

(in reply to oldman45)
Post #: 39
RE: War Options 1941 mod - French and Thai addition - 6/11/2011 3:06:29 PM   
oldman45


Posts: 2320
Joined: 5/1/2005
From: Jacksonville Fl
Status: offline 		That's some nice info, thanks!

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Post #: 40
RE: War Options 1941 mod - French and Thai addition - 6/12/2011 12:03:41 AM   
dwg

 

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Joined: 1/22/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: anarchyintheuk

Imo basing that kind of fleet there would have been frought w/ difficulties ranging from stocking 13.5" shells to moving the fleet administratrion from NA/Vichy to providing maintenance facilities and personnel sufficient for a fleet base.


Of course, that's part of the fun of it ;) I'd assume that most vessels would start with some systems damage, to represent maintenance difficulties.

(in reply to anarchyintheuk)
Post #: 41
RE: War Options 1941 mod - French and Thai addition - 6/13/2011 8:23:11 AM   
Shark7


Posts: 7937
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline 		Skyland, I found the Thai designations for the US built aircraft in their service, if you want to update:

Hawk 75n = B.Kh11
Hawk III = B.Kh10
Hawk II = B.Kh9

V-93s Corsair = B.J1 (combat) or B.F5 (Trainer)
Martin 139 = B.Th3

Thought this might be helpful.

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Post #: 42
RE: War Options 1941 mod - French and Thai addition - 6/13/2011 4:32:17 PM   
Skyland


Posts: 280
Joined: 2/8/2007
From: France
Status: offline 		Thank you Shark7. I will add the info in a future update.

Note that in the mod the V-93 is also locally produced as there was a small plant in activity near Bangkok from 1937.

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War Options 1941 mod : https://sites.google.com/site/waroptionswitpaemod/

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Post #: 43
RE: War Options 1941 mod - French and Thai addition - 6/15/2011 7:30:13 AM   
Skyland


Posts: 280
Joined: 2/8/2007
From: France
Status: offline 		Just a word to say that i have updated Post#1 to #6 on previous page in order to have direct and easier access to the mod content : SCEN file and list of ARTs.

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War Options 1941 mod : https://sites.google.com/site/waroptionswitpaemod/

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Post #: 44
RE: War Options 1941 mod - French and Thai addition - 7/10/2011 2:23:53 AM   
Halsey

 

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Status: offline 		bump...

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Post #: 45
RE: War Options 1941 mod - French and Thai addition - 8/21/2011 1:19:15 AM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		In the new Mod we are working on (The Perfect War) there is quite the following for a few French ships to be added into the Dec 7th starting forces.

Who has the Editor Info for these vessels? Can we simply download the Mod at its site and use it? More importantly are you willing to share them in our Mod?

< Message edited by John 3rd -- 8/21/2011 1:31:51 AM >

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Member: Treaty, Reluctant Admiral and Between the Storms Mod Team.

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Post #: 46
RE: War Options 1941 mod - French and Thai addition - 8/21/2011 9:54:07 AM   
Skyland


Posts: 280
Joined: 2/8/2007
From: France
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Who has the Editor Info for these vessels? Can we simply download the Mod at its site and use it? More importantly are you willing to share them in our Mod?


Of course, you can use the material on my Mod's site for your Mod.

I am preparing a small update for some ships and will include new french vessels in the database for modders. What are the ships you want to add in your mod ? I can speed up the process for them if on your list.




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War Options 1941 mod : https://sites.google.com/site/waroptionswitpaemod/

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Post #: 47
RE: War Options 1941 mod - French and Thai addition - 10/5/2011 3:05:26 AM   
gpannell


Posts: 20
Joined: 2/23/2008
Status: offline 		Thanks Skyland, great Mod. I have only had AE for a month, Wife gave it to me for Anniversary, but I have always wondered "What If" in the case of the Frog Fleet on my WItP. In my WItP Mod I set Suva as the French Home Base and have the fleet showing up from 43 on.

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Post #: 48
RE: War Options 1941 mod - French and Thai addition - 10/5/2011 6:53:47 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Thanks for all the work with our Mod. MUCH appreciated!

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Member: Treaty, Reluctant Admiral and Between the Storms Mod Team.

Reluctant Admiral Mod:
https://sites.google.com/site/reluctantadmiral/

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Post #: 49
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