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RE: Civil War 150th - 9/22/2011 1:36:06 AM

parusski

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quote:

ORIGINAL: nicwb

Its really fascinating to hear about these smaller fights. The big battles are usually well covered but there were obviously numerous smaller confrontations that have passed into obscurity.

Reading about them really makes the war seem that more alive.

According to Ken Burns' The Civil War, the war was fought in 10,000 places. So yes, most of those thousand's of battles have been ignored.

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RE: New Found Wealth - 9/22/2011 2:40:37 AM

Cyber Me

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The money had been in the State Bank of Lexington when the Union troops arrived. General Fremont ordered Col Mulligan to take possession of the money. The Union troops also confiscated the great seal of the state.

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Post #: 302

RE: New Found Wealth - 9/22/2011 4:43:04 AM

ilovestrategy

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Well darn, we finally moved off the page where the spambot said my cats were lovely. Oh well, my 15 minutes of fame are over......

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Post #: 303

RE: New Found Wealth - 9/23/2011 5:20:41 AM

Capt. Harlock

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150 Years Ago Today:

In Missouri, it was the pro-Union side's turn to commit a war crime. A troop of Jayhawkers headed by Kansas Senator James Lane overran the town of Osceola, whose population of 2,500 souls made it likely the third largest in the state. Lane's men took 350 horses, 400 cattle, 3,000 bags of flour, 200 slaves, and quantities of supplies from all the town shops and stores. Nine local men were rounded up, given a kangaroo-court trial, and executed. All but three of the town's 800 buildings burned.

To this day the town's population has not recovered: the 2000 census listed 835 residents.

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Post #: 304

RE: New Found Wealth - 9/23/2011 9:57:30 AM

ilovestrategy

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I bet the townsfolk were pissed. My god.

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Post #: 305

RE: Civil War 150th - 9/24/2011 5:49:01 AM

Capt. Harlock

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150 Years Ago Today:

The first aerial artillery spotting in the history of warfare occurred as Thaddeus Lowe ascended to more than 1,000 feet (305 meters) near Arlington, Virginia. He signalled the position of Confederate forces located at Falls Church, Virginia, more than three miles (4.8 kilometers) away. Union guns were aimed and fired accurately, after Lowe's corrections, at the Rebel troops without actually being able to see them.

This triumph led Secretary of War Simon Cameron to direct Lowe to build four additional balloons. Word of the Americans' achievements even reached Europe, where the Prussian army sent a certain Count Ferdinand von Zeppelin to learn what he could from what was being done.

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Civil war? What does that mean? Is there any foreign war? Isn't every war fought between men, between brothers?

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Post #: 306

RE: Civil War 150th - 9/24/2011 9:22:09 AM

ilovestrategy

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I always thought of the Crimean and Civil Wars has the first truly modern wars.

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Post #: 307

RE: Civil War 150th - 9/25/2011 5:31:08 AM

Capt. Harlock

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150 Years Ago Today:

The Union Navy admitted blacks for military service for the first time, almost a year before the Army opened its ranks. In time, the Union Navy would see almost 16% of its ranks supplied by African Americans, performing in a wide range of enlisted roles. In contrast to the Army, the Navy from the outset paid equal wages between white and black sailors -- and those wages were significantly more. Food rations and medical care were also generally better, with the Navy benefiting from access to supplies from numerous Union-held ports.

The downside was that the work was frequently miserable. Blacks tended to be cabin boys, cooks, or stokers, and shoveling coal into boiler-room furnaces in the hot and humid Southern waters was just as bad as it sounds. And becoming a commissioned officer was still out of reach.

To its shame, after World War I the U. S. Navy would bar blacks entirely until 1932.

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_____________________________

Civil war? What does that mean? Is there any foreign war? Isn't every war fought between men, between brothers?

--Victor Hugo

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Post #: 308

RE: Civil War 150th - 9/25/2011 7:56:10 PM

planner 3

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During WW2 blacks were mostly utilized in Uncle Sams war Canoe club as stewards and cooks, near the end the started segregating into other ratings.

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Post #: 309

RE: Civil War 150th - 9/25/2011 11:50:22 PM

ilovestrategy

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I'm not sure what's worst, being on a battlefield or being stuck on a ship off of the humid Southern Coast for months, even years.

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Post #: 310

RE: Civil War 150th - 9/28/2011 8:24:29 PM

Capt. Harlock

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Sometime in September 1861:

It was now clear to both sides that the war would be a long one. On the banks of the Augusta Canal in Georgia, construction began on the Confederate Powder Works. Seven months later, it would be producing gunpowder, and would run two miles along the canal, making it the second largest gunpowder factory in the world at the time. It would also be the only permanent structure built by the Confederate government.

The Confederate Powder Works supplied more than 50% of the gunpowder used by the Southern armies in the Civil War. The Wikipedia article claims that it was first-quality powder, but many historians have noted that Southern powder seemed to be inferior to what the Northerners had. (Much of the Union powder was supplied by Du Pont, which understandably grew to a major business during the war.) And virtually all of the explosive used in the conflict was gunpowder: nitroglycerin and guncotton had been discovered, but dynamite would not be invented until 1867, and guncotton would not be made safe enough for widespread use for at least a decade beyond that.

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_____________________________

Civil war? What does that mean? Is there any foreign war? Isn't every war fought between men, between brothers?

--Victor Hugo

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Post #: 311

RE: Civil War 150th - 9/29/2011 8:41:55 AM

ilovestrategy

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Which was the first biggest gunpowder factory at the time?

< Message edited by ilovestrategy -- 9/29/2011 8:42:15 AM >

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Post #: 312

RE: Civil War 150th - 9/30/2011 12:39:45 AM

Perturabo

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One thing that I love when watching the Civil War portraits is that soldiers could have these awesome beards and long hair.

< Message edited by Perturabo -- 9/30/2011 12:40:07 AM >

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Post #: 313

RE: Civil War 150th - 9/30/2011 8:06:11 AM

ilovestrategy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Perturabo

One thing that I love when watching the Civil War portraits is that soldiers could have these awesome beards and long hair.

I've always thought that.

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RE: Civil War 150th - 9/30/2011 1:18:55 PM

RedArgo

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Regarding the Confederate Powder Works, since it made 50% of the south's powder, I wonder if the Union every attempted to sabotage the factory. Seems like a successful attempt would have been a huge victory for the north.

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RE: Civil War 150th - 10/1/2011 1:36:21 AM

Capt. Harlock

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quote:

I wonder if the Union every attempted to sabotage the factory. Seems like a successful attempt would have been a huge victory for the north.

As far as I'm aware, no. Sherman's famous march through Georgia bypassed it. The one successful raid I know of against a specific industrial site was the Second Battle of Saltville in Virginia, where the Federals managed to overrun the place that provided the majority of the salt for the northeastern Confederacy after Florida was cut off.

This was more important than it first appears, because before refrigeration, salt was the only real way to preserve meat. An army without salt could not carry enough rations to march very far, until Sherman decided to loot/forage the land as his army went through.

The Yankees didn't stay at Saltville, though, and the plant was back in operation in two months.

_____________________________

Civil war? What does that mean? Is there any foreign war? Isn't every war fought between men, between brothers?

--Victor Hugo

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Post #: 316

RE: Civil War 150th - 10/1/2011 9:36:43 PM

Capt. Harlock

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150 Years Ago Today:

The Union gained Indian allies as the Delaware people proclaimed their alliance. The Delaware, or Lenape, tribe had a long history of allegiance to the U.S. government, despite their being removed to territories in Oklahoma and Kansas. During the war a remarkable 170 out of 201 Delaware men volunteered to serve in the Northern army.

_____________________________

Civil war? What does that mean? Is there any foreign war? Isn't every war fought between men, between brothers?

--Victor Hugo

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Post #: 317

RE: Civil War 150th - 10/3/2011 3:58:28 AM

ilovestrategy

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There were Indians in the Union army?

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RE: Civil War 150th - 10/3/2011 9:00:48 PM

Capt. Harlock

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150 Years Ago Today:

In western Virginia, Union General Joseph Reynolds gathered a force of about 5,000 men including plenty of artillery and moved to attack a Confederate encampment at Greenbrier River. What followed was the greatest artillery duel since Fort Sumter, with the Union guns firing about 11,000 rounds over five hours. The Confederates made a spirited if lesser reply, driving off at least one infantry advance with grapeshot. Eventually the Northerners packed up and went home when they observed nearly all of the camp's tents had been shredded.

However, final casualties were very light. The Union lost 8 men killed and 35 wounded, while the Confederates lost 6 men killed and 35 wounded also.

< Message edited by Capt. Harlock -- 10/4/2011 4:09:20 AM >

_____________________________

Civil war? What does that mean? Is there any foreign war? Isn't every war fought between men, between brothers?

--Victor Hugo

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Post #: 319

RE: Civil War 150th - 10/4/2011 4:18:19 AM

Capt. Harlock

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quote:

There were Indians in the Union army?�

Indeed there were. Remarkably, two even managed to become generals, and one of those, Ely S. Parker by name, played a prominent role in the Appomattox surrender.

< Message edited by Capt. Harlock -- 10/4/2011 8:17:57 PM >

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Post #: 320

RE: Civil War 150th - 10/4/2011 8:23:33 AM

ilovestrategy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Capt. Harlock

driving off at least one infantry advance with grapeshot.

Ugh. I don't even want to think of that!

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After 16 years, Civ II still has me in it's clutches LOL!!!
Now CIV IV has me in it's evil clutches!

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Post #: 321

RE: Civil War 150th - 10/4/2011 4:31:46 PM

planner 3

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I can't get over the "gentlemens approach" to this war, ie: lines of opposing foes facing each other, in plain view. I often wonder what the outcome would have been if stalk and stealth methods were utilized on the battlefield, with the weapons that were common in that time period. Grape shot would not have been so effective, nor solid shot, Gatling would have been effective IMHO. Just pondering ???
After all less that 100 years prior we used that approach in the Revolutionary War. (Yes I know we also fought it with Napoleonic battles also). We did great in the Revoluntionary war in the South with hit-and-run tactics against Cornwallis. You may burn this after reading as it serves no real purpose.

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RE: Civil War 150th - 10/4/2011 8:17:39 PM

Capt. Harlock

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150 Years Ago Today:

The Confederate government picked up more Native American allies by signing treaties with the Shawnee and Seneca Nations. However, the Seneca at least were divided, and some of their men joined the Union forces instead. Most prominent, as mentioned above, was Ely Parker:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ely_S._Parker

Ulysses S. Grant is the man standing wearing the hat, Parker is at the far right in this photo.

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< Message edited by Capt. Harlock -- 10/5/2011 2:00:02 AM >

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Civil war? What does that mean? Is there any foreign war? Isn't every war fought between men, between brothers?

--Victor Hugo

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Post #: 323

RE: Civil War 150th - 10/4/2011 8:24:59 PM

Capt. Harlock

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quote:

I can't get over the "gentlemens approach" to this war, ie: lines of opposing foes facing each other, in plain view. I often wonder what the outcome would have been if stalk and stealth methods were utilized on the battlefield, with the weapons that were common in that time period. Grape shot would not have been so effective, nor solid shot, Gatling would have been effective IMHO

The Civil War was fought with all kinds of tactics, including cavalry raids, long-range artillery bombardment, and some very ugly episodes of guerilla warfare. The reason there were so many set-piece battles was that the defence very often had time to prepare the battlefield. They naturally selected positions with a clear view of the approaching troops.

True, there was at least one major battle in woods, the Wilderness, where neither grapeshot nor solid shot did much good. Explosive-packed shells made up for both by setting the woods on fire.

_____________________________

Civil war? What does that mean? Is there any foreign war? Isn't every war fought between men, between brothers?

--Victor Hugo

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Post #: 324

RE: Civil War 150th - 10/5/2011 5:40:05 AM

Capt. Harlock

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150 Years Ago Today:

The London Post published an editorial favoring the Confederacy, heating up the newspaper struggle, and indeed the controversy throughout the whole of Britain about the war being fought on the other side of the Atlantic. Generally, the British upper classes favored the South, which they saw as more civilized than the "newly rich" Northern society. But the workers tended to sympathize with the industrial North, and no one in England cared to be seen as supporting slavery or rebellion. The London Times, even though its correspondent William Howard Russell wrote critiques of the Union Army, had editorialized against secession.

And Britain was the world's superpower at that point. Especially, the Royal Navy could easily break the Union blockade, should Britain recognize the Confederacy and start trade. Already Britain had declared neutrality but recognized Confederate privateers as lawful belligerent vessels, which allowed them to re-supply at the ports of the British Empire in the Caribbean and Canada. And where Britain led, France, Russia, and the other lesser powers were likely to follow.

_____________________________

Civil war? What does that mean? Is there any foreign war? Isn't every war fought between men, between brothers?

--Victor Hugo

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Post #: 325

RE: Civil War 150th - 10/5/2011 5:51:06 AM

planner 3

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Aye! Capt. Thank you for reply, it makes it clearer now, your articles are some of the best reading I done in 79 years.

Much appreciated, planner 3 (AKA Chief)

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Post #: 326

RE: Civil War 150th - 10/7/2011 8:20:05 PM

Capt. Harlock

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150 Years Ago Today:

Cherokee Chief John Ross signed a treaty transferring all obligations due to the Cherokee from the U.S. to the Confederacy. The treaty specified the Cherokee would receive protection, food, livestock, tools, and a delegate to the Confederate Congress at Richmond. (Similar to the Choctaw and Chickasaw.) In exchange, the Cherokee would provide ten companies of irregular cavalry, and permit military posts and the construction of roads within the Cherokee Nation. However, no Cherokee regiment was to be required to serve outside Indian Territory.

Ross and the men supporting him then turned to writing a Declaration of Causes to explain the transfer of allegiance. A remarkably eloquent document, it would be published near the end of the month.

_____________________________

Civil war? What does that mean? Is there any foreign war? Isn't every war fought between men, between brothers?

--Victor Hugo

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Post #: 327

RE: Civil War 150th - 10/8/2011 5:41:36 PM

Capt. Harlock

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150 Years Ago Today:

Robert Anderson, the North's hero of Fort Sumter, was having more and more problems with his health. He had been in command of the Department of the Cumberland, including the key state of Kentucky. On this day, William T. Sherman took over from Anderson.

But it was trading bad for worse. Sherman's self-confidence had not recovered from the defeat at First Bull Run, and he felt himself unsuited to for such a large command. More, he over-estimated the strength of the pro-Southern forces in the area, and would soon suffer what looks to modern historians like a nervous breakdown.

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_____________________________

Civil war? What does that mean? Is there any foreign war? Isn't every war fought between men, between brothers?

--Victor Hugo

(in reply to Capt. Harlock)

Post #: 328

RE: Civil War 150th - 10/9/2011 5:04:31 AM

Capt. Harlock

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150 Years Ago Today:

Fort Pickens, on Santa Rosa Island off Pensacola, Florida, had been the only other major Southern fort besides Fort Sumter to stay in Union hands when the Southern states seceded. Its garrison had been increased to 600 men, and other camps had been set up on the forty-mile-long island to hold them all. Now, Confederate General Richard Anderson crossed from the mainland to the island with 1,200 men in two small steamers to surprise the Union camps on the island and capture Fort Pickens.

Anderson landed on the north beach about four miles east of the fort. After proceeding about three miles, the Confederates surprised the 6th Regiment, New York Volunteers, in its camp and routed it. But this lost the element of surprise for the rebels. Anderson then adopted a defensive stance to entice the Federals to leave the fort and attack. Fort commander Colonel Harvey Brown granted Anderson's wish, making a sally against the Confederates. Unfortunately for the Southerners, Brown's men fought well, and General Anderson was badly wounded. With their leader down and Northern reinforcements arriving, the rebels reembarked and returned to the mainland.

Union casualties were 67 total: 14 killed, 29 wounded, 24 captured or missing. Confederate casualties were 87 total of which 30-40 were killed. Fort Pickens would stay in Federal hands permanently, and when the Confederate army evacuated Pensacola the next May, the Union garrison took the city.