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Minelaying questions - 10/10/2011 3:05:41 AM

SPRUANCE74

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Joined: 9/15/2011
From: Chicago
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I set 3 minelaying subs in 3 adjacent hexes. How can I tell if they actually laid mines and if so how many? How many should I lay to be effective?

How should I use minelaying ships? I want to lay mines north of Tassfaronga thru which enemy ships would come to attack me, but they are vulnerable to enemy air & surface ships. The logical way is to send in CAs & DDs w/ LRCAP WHILE THEY ARE LAYING MINES & THEN MOVE EVERYTHING SOUTH TO SAFETY [oops -caps lock by mistake] but the same question comes up - how long to leave them there & how to tell if they laid the mines. How many mines should I lay?

Post #: 1

RE: Minelaying questions - 10/10/2011 3:17:27 AM

n01487477

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SPRUANCE74

I set 3 minelaying subs in 3 adjacent hexes. How can I tell if they actually laid mines and if so how many? How many should I lay to be effective?

How should I use minelaying ships? I want to lay mines north of Tassfaronga thru which enemy ships would come to attack me, but they are vulnerable to enemy air & surface ships. The logical way is to send in CAs & DDs w/ LRCAP WHILE THEY ARE LAYING MINES & THEN MOVE EVERYTHING SOUTH TO SAFETY [oops -caps lock by mistake] but the same question comes up - how long to leave them there & how to tell if they laid the mines. How many mines should I lay?

Here is a video I made some time ago ...
https://sites.google.com/site/witpaetf/home/tffiles/MineOps.swf?attredirects=0
Mines laid at sea (not port hex) are less effective and the minefield disappears quickly.
You can count up the mines that are contained in each ship if you want. You can't see how many there are except at port bases you hold.

_____________________________

-Damian-
EconDoc
TrackerAE
Tutes&Java

(in reply to SPRUANCE74)

Post #: 2

RE: Minelaying questions - 10/10/2011 3:31:23 AM

Quixote

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From: Maryland
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The only really effective use of mines is at bases. Ideally at your own, so you can maintain them, but if not then at least at his so that he has a markedly better chance of hitting them than he would in an otherwise open hex. Check the manual, but mines have always dissipated considerably faster in deep (or even shallow) water than they do at bases.

In partial answer to one of your other questions, you can see how many mines you've laid at bases by simply clicking on the info screen for that base, but you can't see what you've laid in open ocean or in other areas. (Honestly, this probably doesn't matter - none of them will mange to hit anything anyway unless you really saturate the hex, and then you would only have success in the very short term.)

Edit - Damian, along with being very reliable, is apparently a lot faster than I am, too.

< Message edited by Quixote -- 10/10/2011 4:04:25 AM >

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Post #: 3

RE: Minelaying questions - 10/10/2011 5:06:02 AM

jmalter

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i recall reading in these threads, that when successive aerial mine-laying missions target a hex, the mine strengths aren't added together. instead of one minefield that increases its hit-chance as you add to it, you end up w/ multiple minefields (each w/ a very low hit-probability). presumably, naval mine-laying in a non-port hex operates the same way.

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Post #: 4

RE: Minelaying questions - 10/10/2011 6:06:15 AM

SPRUANCE74

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From: Chicago
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quote:

Here is a video I made some time ago ...
https://sites.google.com/site/witpaetf/home/tffiles/MineOps.swf?attredirects=0
Mines laid at sea (not port hex) are less effective and the minefield disappears quickly.
You can count up the mines that are contained in each ship if you want. You can't see how many there are except at port bases you hold

WOW! That was fantastic! Do you have other such videos? Please send me a list.

How did you get your Jap surface minelayer into Iwo Jima waters held by the US without being attacked and sunk?

You are in Korea, right, Damien? You have a British accent. Are you in the service? Are you emplyed by Matrix? Just curious.

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Post #: 5

RE: Minelaying questions - 10/10/2011 10:07:59 AM

n01487477

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SPRUANCE74

quote:

Here is a video I made some time ago ...
https://sites.google.com/site/witpaetf/home/tffiles/MineOps.swf?attredirects=0
Mines laid at sea (not port hex) are less effective and the minefield disappears quickly.
You can count up the mines that are contained in each ship if you want. You can't see how many there are except at port bases you hold

WOW! That was fantastic! Do you have other such videos? Please send me a list.

Some of them are a bit old now & the quality needs to be better. I am intending on updating them to the beta when I have time.
http://sites.google.com/site/n01487477/Home

quote:

How did you get your Jap surface minelayer into Iwo Jima waters held by the US without being attacked and sunk?

It was a made up scenario, so there were no Allied forces present...

quote:

You are in Korea, right, Damien? You have a British accent. Are you in the service? Are you emplyed by Matrix? Just curious.

Yep, I'm in Korea teaching Engineering & English at a local University. I was born in England but spent a lot of my time growing up in Australia. Not employed by Matrix, but work on witpTracker and do what I can when I can.

_____________________________

-Damian-
EconDoc
TrackerAE
Tutes&Java

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Post #: 6

RE: Minelaying questions - 10/10/2011 6:26:30 PM

SPRUANCE74

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From: Chicago
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quote:

WOW! That was fantastic! Do you have other such videos? Please send me a list.

Some of them are a bit old now & the quality needs to be better. I am intending on updating them to the beta when I have time.
http://sites.google.com/site/n01487477/Home

Thank you very much. I'm busy w/ another project right now but will look at them all soon. If you have time, I'd like a reference/website on how you made the videos & how you take pictures of the info screens [screenpics] & how to embed pictures here since I haven't figured it out yet.

So, I plan to lay mines with my subs at Rabaul & other enemy ports. I assume that if I send a sub w/o mines to a port = or > 7 or w/ naval support it will automatically load mines?

I'm still not clear on how to use minelaying surface ships. I said this above: "The logical way is to send in CAs & DDs w/ LRCAP WHILE THEY ARE LAYING MINES & THEN MOVE EVERYTHING SOUTH TO SAFETY [oops -caps lock by mistake]" Based on your info, this won't work well in the open sea north of Guadalcanal from whence I expect the Japs to come where I had planned to lay them. The other option is to mine my bases at Tulagi and Guadalcanal [a] in case the Japs drive me out, or remove my ships, lure the Japs into the minefield, and then counterattack with my ships & planes. Any other suggested uses? The manual says my ships "usually" don't run into my own mines. Can that be a problem with option above?

I thought I detected a bit of an Australian accent. I have relatives there in Brisbane, Sydney, and Melbourne. I had a great visit there in 2000, climbed the Harbour Bridge, saw Madam Butterfly at the beautiful Opera House, etc. & was in England 2 years ago - London, Bath, Stonehenge, etc. I live in Chicago.

Thanks again for the great video & your other very helpful suggestions.

Cheers,

John

(in reply to n01487477)

Post #: 7

RE: Minelaying questions-FollowUp - Sub - 10/16/2011 6:03:36 AM

SPRUANCE74

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From: Chicago
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I placed a minelaying sub at Sydney and after one turn it has not loaded any mines. How can I get it to do so?

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Post #: 8

RE: Minelaying questions-FollowUp - Sub - 10/16/2011 6:20:31 AM

Alfred

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See my answer in your other thread.

Really, you should display more patience and not scatter the same question of various threads, or allow people time to answer.

Alfred

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Post #: 9

RE: Minelaying questions-FollowUp - Sub - 10/16/2011 7:59:55 AM

SPRUANCE74

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"8. Any port size 7 can rearm mines on to a minelayer ship/submarine. Smaller ports can do so with the assistance of naval support squads. Thus Sydney, a size 8 port, will suffice. However, unlike other naval weapons, you can only reload mines if they are available in the pool. No mine in the pool, no reload irrespective of size of port or the quantum of supply present."

Sydney has 328 Defensive Mines. The Resource Pool lists 4 mine types. Only 1, MK6 is 0. There are mines in the other 3: m26=39, Pattern 08/39 = 41, & PLT-2 =41. I assume one or all of these can be loaded onto a sub. Is this correct? If so, does it take more than 1 turn? I'll find this out later, but it would helpful to know now if I should do something else to load them. The sub was and is docked.

I added the comment as a minor point in the supplies thread since I was already there. Since I especially wanted Damien's comment on this & he had posted here, I also asked the question here so he would see it since he answered me here the first time. Also, this is the "minelaying" thread. I don't read all the threads so I assumed that not everyone else does either.

(in reply to Alfred)

Post #: 10

RE: Minelaying questions-FollowUp - Sub - 10/16/2011 8:25:15 AM

Don Bowen

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Post a screenshot of the submarine in question...

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Post #: 11

RE: Minelaying questions-FollowUp - Sub - 10/16/2011 11:37:50 AM

Alfred

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SPRUANCE74

"8. Any port size 7 can rearm mines on to a minelayer ship/submarine. Smaller ports can do so with the assistance of naval support squads. Thus Sydney, a size 8 port, will suffice. However, unlike other naval weapons, you can only reload mines if they are available in the pool. No mine in the pool, no reload irrespective of size of port or the quantum of supply present."

Sydney has 328 Defensive Mines. The Resource Pool lists 4 mine types. Only 1, MK6 is 0. There are mines in the other 3: m26=39, Pattern 08/39 = 41, & PLT-2 =41. I assume one or all of these can be loaded onto a sub. Is this correct? If so, does it take more than 1 turn? I'll find this out later, but it would helpful to know now if I should do something else to load them. The sub was and is docked.

I added the comment as a minor point in the supplies thread since I was already there. Since I especially wanted Damien's comment on this & he had posted here, I also asked the question here so he would see it since he answered me here the first time. Also, this is the "minelaying" thread. I don't read all the threads so I assumed that not everyone else does either.

1. And what makes you think the mines:

m26
Pattern 08/39
PLT-2

are at all relevant?

You have an in-game database which lists complete details of all vessel classes. You can also click on any vessel and be taken to a screen which provides full details of that vessel. Amongst the complete details displayed is a complete readout of all the weapon systems deployed on the vessel. If it "ain't" on the list, it "ain't" used. Have you found any of the mines listed above on the weapon systems deployed on any of your vessels found in this scenario? Instead, which mine models are deployed on your vessels? Are any of those in the pool.

2. The defensive mines at Sydney are already laid in a minefield. They are neither in the pool nor can they be scooped up and reused elsewhere. Where did you get the idea you could do either, it sure wasn't from reading the manual. Especially as details on mines is quite easily found by looking up the index.

3. Some of us do read all, or at least most of the threads. Having tunnel vision is not the way to learn how to play AE. You may have titled this thread minelaying but it is not the only thread which deals with this subject. Surely you are not suggesting that a thread is not worth reading by yourself merely because you did not open it; that threads opened by others, even though they deal directly with the same issues which exercise your mind.

People such as Damian do not limit themselves to just reading a few threads. They respond whenever they notice a question/issue has been raised by a new player. If not Damian, someone else would have responded as soon as they had logged on and noticed the question in the other thread. You have already been the beneficiary of several more experieinced players responding within a reasonable timeframe. In the intervening period, I again point out the neccesity of reading the manual. I'm quite certain that when you were training for your medical degree you would have often perused Grey's Anatomy during the personal down times. The AE manual is a much easier read.

Alfred

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Post #: 12

RE: Minelaying questions-FollowUp - Sub - 10/16/2011 12:01:44 PM

SgtSwanson

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SPRUANCE74 this game has been out since '04 with Matrix. AE for at least 2 years now. Most of the subjects have been covered. It would be faster and more informative for you to search for your answer. And you can pick up quite a bit of tips and tricks by doing so as well. The search box is in the lower right corner just under the reply box. Make sure the Jump to: box has the correct forum or sub-forum showing when you hit the search button.

_____________________________

Sgt Swanson
87-93 5/502 Inf. Berlin Bde
93-95 2/502 Inf. 101st Airborne Div.
Freedom is never free!!

Patch of the Week: 6th Infantry Division

(in reply to Alfred)

Post #: 13

RE: Minelaying questions-FollowUp - Sub - 10/16/2011 7:18:02 PM

Skyros

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Spruance there is a forum at the top of the War Room with FAQs for New Players, it is very good.
it is calld Faq/Infoo for Newbs here is the link.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2260137

< Message edited by Skyros -- 10/16/2011 7:20:35 PM >

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Post #: 14

RE: Minelaying questions-FollowUp - Sub - 10/18/2011 2:47:33 AM

SPRUANCE74

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I found the problem. When I went down the very long Resource List & found the mines I listed above, I assumed that all the mines would be listed together. I went further down the list & found more mines. The mine the sub needs is the MK10 mine. The data shows: In pool 0; Produced 0;Build Rate 0. I assume that I can't have minelaying subs in this scenario unless they show up later, which is disappointing.

As for the various comments above, I did review FAQ for Newbies & found it very useful, but not in this case. I did not find the specific mine types in the Manual [which by the way is falling apart & hard to read] so it didn't answer my question. I have tried the search but so far I haven't found certain specific questions answered. Furthermore, I didn't get the answer from other posts, although some were helpful in providing direction.

With all due respect, Alfred, to compare this game to a course in Gross Anatomy or the Manual to Gray's Anatomy borders on the ridiculous. This is a game to me and a leisure pursuit for fun. You have been playing this game since 2006. I've been playing for a few weeks. While I appreciate your experience and helpful comments, this does not warrant supercilious, condescending, professorial dictates from some exulted position of self-assumed superiority.

Having said that, I very much appreciate the many helpful responses from experienced players which have without question accelerated my learning curve better than any other approach, in my opinion.

(in reply to Skyros)

Post #: 15

RE: Minelaying questions-FollowUp - Sub - 10/18/2011 8:36:56 AM

steamboateng

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Spruance74,
To many, WitP AE is more than a game. Its complexity offers a range of challanges and topics to ponder.........
Personally, I have found it to be a fun interactive history lesson.......also a door to such subjects as naval ops and tactics, psychological warefare, military organisation, logistics of warfare, historical WWII hardware, etc.
IIf you peruse the forums, you will find a host of active military personell, as well as retired military folks, who contribute their knowledge to the whole (often, not being required to shoot you after contributing such fnowledge)! That alone should speak for the games appeal
There are also several professionals in various feilds, actively supporting the game/forums. I keep a dictionary handy because often, some of those folks speak a different kind of English than I'm used to.
All in all, its that hodge-podge of induviduals which makes these forums quite unique................topics ranging from the ridulous to the sublime................and always fun and educational
Regards

_____________________________

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Post #: 16

RE: Minelaying questions-FollowUp - Sub - 10/19/2011 12:08:47 AM

SPRUANCE74

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From: Chicago
Status: offline

quote:

IIf you peruse the forums, you will find a host of active military personell, as well as retired military folks, who contribute their knowledge to the whole

One of my uncles was a Marine who fought in Saipan and elsewhere in the Pacific. Another uncle was a colonel in the Army Air Force in the European theater. Still another uncle by marriage was one of the Carlson's Raiders who fought on Guadalcanal and is quoted in one of Time-Life's volumes. Another relative, a cousin, was a sailor on the Washington in the Naval Battle of Guadalcanal. I would not be investing my time in learning this game if I did not take it seriously as a tribute to the Greatest Generation if nothing else.

Regards to you too, and I have especially appreciated your helpful comments.

(in reply to steamboateng)

Post #: 17

RE: Minelaying questions-FollowUp - Sub - 10/19/2011 5:36:39 AM

SPRUANCE74

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From: Chicago
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By the way, Gray's Anatomy is the medical testbook whereas Grey's Anatomy is the TV Show. Gray was the British doctor who wrote the textbook. If a professor of anatomy walked into the Dissection Lab and informed the medical students that they must read all 2092 pages of the textbook, much of it in very small print, from cover to cover before daring to ask any questions, he would be immediately fired by the Dean. We started with the dissection of the upper extremity with the open textbook by the table and spent several weeks there before going to another part of the body. I have never taken nor ever taught a course where one was expected to read the entire textbook before ever asking a question.

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Post #: 18

RE: Minelaying questions-FollowUp - Sub - 10/19/2011 9:28:19 AM

steamboateng

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Personally, I have found the manual, extensive as it is, to often raise as many questions as it answers. Its language is not always as clear as it could be. Many a furball have been faught out on these pages arising from questions left hanging. The game is over 2 years old now, and the truth is that time and experience, as much as anything else has cleared up many points of contention.
To further confuse the subject; the game has gone through many changes, and still is changing (thank you michaelm and developers). The manual itself, is no longer complete in its content; leaving one to dig out information on the many revisions.
I saw a forum rumer that someone was doing a manual revision, aimed at those changes, but don't know how true it is!
Finally, it's these forums which offer up the most info on the game. I use the search function to look up subjects I want clarification on. But I do get lazy, once in a while, and simply toss a question out there, hoping a sypathetic armchair admiral will clarify my quandry.
There is a great bunch of guys (and gals) out there who wil help you along.
"Damn the torpedoes...................etc, etc............"
Regards

_____________________________

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Post #: 19

RE: Minelaying questions-FollowUp - Sub - 10/19/2011 6:25:51 PM

SPRUANCE74

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From: Chicago
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quote:

Personally, I have found the manual, extensive as it is, to often raise as many questions as it answers.

I agree completely. I have written a textbook, and I put great emphasis on creating a complete and accurate Index but keeping it as simple and easy to understand as possible so the student could quickly find the info he needed. The answers to many of my questions were often not easy to find and when I did find them not easy to understand. The fact that it is poorly made - mine is already in 3 pieces & it is new - makes it even worse. I am going to try and use the threads more, but the problem I have had so far is finding specific answers and getting sidetracked by various tangential issues that come up. Tutorials would be helpful as some other games have. Damien has created some videos in that regard which I think are great. Kudos to him.

"We have met the enemy, and they is us!"
*******************************Pogo

Cheers,

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Post #: 20

RE: Minelaying questions-FollowUp - Sub - 10/19/2011 6:43:07 PM

SPRUANCE74

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From: Chicago
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Hmmm....wondering why my uploaded photo didn't show up. I'll try again...

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"We have met the enemy, and they is us!"

Pogo

Kindest regards,

John

(in reply to SPRUANCE74)

Post #: 21

Screenpic Test - 10/23/2011 10:28:35 PM

SPRUANCE74

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Joined: 9/15/2011
From: Chicago
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This is just a test to see if a screenpic will upload & how it looks.

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"We have met the enemy, and they is us!"

Pogo

Kindest regards,

John

(in reply to n01487477)

Post #: 22

RE: Screenpic Test - 10/23/2011 10:43:18 PM

SPRUANCE74

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Joined: 9/15/2011
From: Chicago
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Since I posted the above sceenpic, I would like clarification on the speed of this task force and how long it will take to reach its destination [ Tassafaronga]..

TF 79, Bombardment [Salt Lake City, etc.] on 9-17-42. Move 9/4 � Fuel 173/21 (19), 9x40=360 knots/2 days = 180 knots/day which is slower than slow merchant ships so this can�t be right.
Distance to Tassafaronga = 19 hexesx40 knots/hex=760 knots.
Based on speed: Slowest=32knots/h, 760/32=23.75h to get there
Based on 9/4=760knots/180knots/day=4.2 days to get there. This can�t be right.

I would like confirmation on the definitions of 9/4. My understanding is that the TF can move 9 hexes in 4 pulses, 1 hex = 40 knots, & each pulse = 12h.

Basically, I want to be able to accurately predict when my ships will arrive at their destination.

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"We have met the enemy, and they is us!"

Pogo

Kindest regards,

John

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Post #: 23

RE: Screenpic Test - 10/23/2011 10:55:52 PM

Quixote

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9/4 doesn't mean 9 hexes in 4 pulses. It's a measure of the speed of the ship or TF at full speed or cruising speed. With 9/4, if set to full speed (or at mission speed for parts of some missions) it will travel 9 hexes in one pulse. If set to cruise speed (or mission speed, most of the time) it will travel 4 hexes in one pulse.

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Post #: 24

RE: Screenpic Test - 10/23/2011 11:10:46 PM

Knyvet

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SPRUANCE74

a nice illustration of movement speed per pulse and turn is in the "TF movement speed" video located at the following link:
http://sites.google.com/site/n01487477/Home

< Message edited by Knyvet -- 10/23/2011 11:11:28 PM >

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Post #: 25

RE: Screenpic Test - 10/24/2011 2:58:47 AM

SPRUANCE74

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From: Chicago
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quote:

9/4 doesn't mean 9 hexes in 4 pulses. It's a measure of the speed of the ship or TF at full speed or cruising speed. With 9/4, if set to full speed (or at mission speed for parts of some missions) it will travel 9 hexes in one pulse. If set to cruise speed (or mission speed, most of the time) it will travel 4 hexes in one pulse.

Thanks. That clears it up for me.

_____________________________

"We have met the enemy, and they is us!"

Pogo

Kindest regards,

John

(in reply to Quixote)

Post #: 26

RE: Screenpic Test - 10/24/2011 3:03:07 AM

SPRUANCE74

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From: Chicago
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quote:

a nice illustration of movement speed per pulse and turn is in the "TF movement speed" video located at the following link:
http://sites.google.com/site/n01487477/Home

Thanks. I have watched it, but obviously some of it didn't sink in! I'll go back & watch it again.