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Panzer 3's vs. Crusader II and Valentines

 
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Panzer 3's vs. Crusader II and Valentines - 10/27/2002 1:42:35 PM   
Slimey

 

Posts: 23
Joined: 10/23/2002
From: Soviet Canuckistan
Status: offline
In North Africa, my British tank forces are being destroyed by the Panzer 3's. 2 pounders aren't able to penetrate the German armour, but the 50 mm rips through my tanks. What kind of tactics do I use?
Post #: 1
- 10/27/2002 8:55:55 PM   
Toontje

 

Posts: 345
Joined: 10/9/2002
From: The Netherlands
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See Argrydeeemon1's topic in this subforum, therein it's more or less covered. (Trouble with big cats)

(in reply to Slimey)
Post #: 2
- 11/5/2002 2:47:09 AM   
CatLord


Posts: 312
Joined: 10/21/2002
From: Lausanne, Switzerland
Status: offline
Hi Slimey, I was having the same pb.

If you are in a campaign, early 42 you will have access to 6Pdr AT gun, they are slightly better.

The only tactic I have found so far is staying away for P3h and m (j's are OK). And taking all P3 by sides.

Also use AA big gun against P3.

And I discover 3inch Howitzer (CS tank) are great to immobilized the germans' P3s, then go with your infantry.

Try to keep a core of vet tank alive, they are more likely to succeed blowing holes in the Germans.

Brit's troops are very good. So early in the campaign, go against the Jap preferably (their tanks are no match to yours).

Cat

(in reply to Slimey)
Post #: 3
- 11/5/2002 6:28:11 AM   
rbrunsman


Posts: 1837
Joined: 1/31/2002
From: Phoenix, AZ
Status: offline
I don't mean to sound like an ***, but we usually don't refer to the German tank as a P3, we say PzIII instead. I may be a little slow, but when I saw you thread I thought, "I better check that out, I don't even know what a P3 is."

And as for destoying them, you have to go for the side shots, which requires carefully presenting Op. Fire targets to them so that they will spin in place and show you their sides. It's tough to do, but quite satisfying when you do manage a few kills. You can also those tough Matilda IIs to draw their Op Fire so that they don't rip holes in your less armored tanks. And, don't end your turn in LOS of a gun that can tear you up or you will surely lose that tank.

Good Hunting!

(in reply to Slimey)
Post #: 4
- 11/18/2002 12:47:30 AM   
VikingNo2


Posts: 2918
Joined: 1/26/2002
From: NC
Status: offline
P3 is a sub hunting/ recon plane, RB is on a never ending quest for knowledge:rolleyes:

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Post #: 5
- 11/18/2002 5:27:51 AM   
tiggwigg

 

Posts: 118
Joined: 5/17/2001
From: Australia
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One of the beautiful things about SPWAW is that you can't expect to win all the time. The trick is to be satisfied with a draw (even being 3000 points down can give you a draw) when you have no chance of winning. This is particularly important in a campaign, when maintaining veteran crews is so important…those crews can even pick up experience in the draw.

I commonly play Russia, so I am used to dealing with similar situations…I have played a couple of games in a similar period to you…but had to face Stugs/p4f2specials/Marders with Shermans and Grants.

The key tactic is, if your enemy can't see you, he can't shoot you…so use smoke wherever you can…but the british at the time are not well suited…I am not sure if your tanks have smoke dischargers, but they definitely have no smoke ammo, so you have trouble. As well, your tanks only have a load capacity of 6, so they can't carry full infantry squads…the same goes for your bren-carrier apc's, and trucks are too slow to keep up with your cruisers and too soft to show…so here goes:
· mount recon teams/patrols on your tanks, which you can drop off to fire smoke when needbe…expensive but it works;
· don't be reluctant to dismount a crew (use the 9 key) to fire smoke…3 or 4 crews can fully protect a tank squadron, and they will simply mount up next turn (something they can't do if their tanks have been destroyed)
· use fast recon vehicles to drive back and forth around you force, each on a different hex line...3-4 hex depth of dust is as good as a smoke screen and hides your forces…remember to load recon infantry that can fire smoke and hide these vehicles
· remember to check the left hand corner of the information panel…an asterisk * means the unit has been spotted, so use recon units in advance of your main force to discover your enemies location…it is a waste of precious smoke ammo creating a smoke screen where there are no enemy forces anyway.
· use artillery/mortars to set up smoke barriers infront of likely defensive positions…the enemy can only shoot at you if he leaves his good defensive position, increasing your chance of knocking him out
· use artillery/mortars to set up smoke curtains infront of your advance…this can allow you to advance for 2-3 turns without worrying about the 50mm guns of the enemy tanks, and gets you close enough to do some damage when they do show
· use artillery/mortars to suppress the enemy tanks…your cruisers move fast…if suppressed, you can move your cruisers adjacent to the enemy tanks and blow them away at 1 hex…you can also place one cruiser at front and back, so that every shot is a rear shot, with the enemy tanks switching directions each time you fire
· use other units you are willing to lose to waste the enemy op-fire and create suppression…have infantry fire at the enemy tanks if close, creating suppression, and use cheap and fast moving recon vehicles to consume enemy op-fire, or buy Matildas and use them to fire at the enemy so he wastes his op-fire…try to place such firing units in defensive terrain (on slopes/hilltops or in rocks/rough), which reduces the chance that return fire will score a hit…remember never to shoot twice in succession with the same unit (switch between firing units)…each time a gun fires in succession at the same target the firing unit gains a targetting bonus, so by changing firing units the enemy always has a first shot penalty, while your units gain the targeting bonus by through successive shots at the same target…after a 3-5 shots of op-fire, the enemy unit will have no main-gun op-fire opportunities left, so you can rush him with your cruisers and fire at 1 hex range…
· in the desert, observe the dust trails to determine where your enemy is heading…remember he can see yours, so use them to create misleading information…a truck creates the same trail as a tank…if you afford a few armoured cars, simple drive them all around the map to confuse a human opponent
· as already said, advance behind a screen of matildas and heavier tanks, keeping your soft skinned cruisers to runs a suppressed enemy concentration
· as already said, try to create side shots for a kill, but remember an enemy tank that is immobilized is as good as destroyed…target a couple of mortars on it and the crew will abandon it, which you can then massacre
· as already said, purchase some heavy AA guns…they have 15 shots of AP ammo and a 5/6 accuracy rating…almost as good as an 88…try to use them in a trap whether attacking or defending…place them where you can lure the enemy tanks into their arc of fire…when you unload them within range of the enemy, they will immediately be spotted and attract fire the next turn, so you will find them of little use, so move them into position behind a smoke screen…within a turn or two the smoke will dissipate enough for you to be able to shoot through, but your gun will not be spotted.
· If acceptable with you or your opponent, purchase some "captured" enemy units…when purchasing, use the NATION button to choose weapons from a different nation…the Italians have a great truck mounted heavy AA gun…or you can try out 88's

(in reply to Slimey)
Post #: 6
- 11/19/2002 2:30:15 AM   
rbrunsman


Posts: 1837
Joined: 1/31/2002
From: Phoenix, AZ
Status: offline
I thrive on learning new tricks (and if they can ultimately be used against VikingNo2, then that's a bonus :D ). Can a P3 bust a tank? ;)

I will bail a crew to get the use of their 1-3 smoke rounds if necessary, but be aware that it is a distinct possibility that every time you bail a crew, you give points to your opponent. You get points for forcing your opponent's crews to bail and I think the computer doesn't know the difference when it is keeping track of scores. I haven't confirmed this, but I had the feeling that it happened to me in a campaign once or twice. Just be careful about bailing, because your opponent can see abandoned vehicles if he gets LOS. If that happens, your crew is in for trouble.

(in reply to Slimey)
Post #: 7
- 11/19/2002 5:11:35 AM   
VikingNo2


Posts: 2918
Joined: 1/26/2002
From: NC
Status: offline
Yes but it would be tricky they carry torpedos

(in reply to Slimey)
Post #: 8
- 11/19/2002 8:14:11 AM   
Ezikel

 

Posts: 52
Joined: 10/21/2002
From: B'ham, England
Status: offline
Im playing a WW2 campaign in North africa and i havnt fought germany yet, iv just had scraps with Italy, i seem to win with ridiculous ease though. Ive bought 1 Co. of truck mounted infantry and ive bearly used them. All ive used is my tank company which seems very effective against Italy 41-42.

My tank compant is:

14 Crusader MkII
8 Matilda IIIcs
6 Cruiser MkIIIcs
5 Stuart I

All ive done is like was said above, use the Matildas as shields and infantry killers and just waltz them in, i havnt lost one yet. Then the crusaders and cruisers come in, the cruiser has a better AP but has light armor and less accuracy so its best to use them like you would a TD (except there is usually enough ammo to make them good infantry killers). Ive gone for the highest ground as quickly as possible (outside AI's deployment zone) and set my tanks on there, with a bren carrier or scout team i havnt been snuck up on my troops yet. The last battle ended something like 9000-550 i lost 50 men, they lost 750, and i only used my infantry at long range just surpressing.

As i said, i havnt played germany yet so it will be a different story, although PzIII's have good front and rear armor, their side is about 20 points lower, and hitting the side isnt all that hard. If beaten PzIII's off with early shermans before and the Matilda has more than twice the armor.

P.S Italy tend to run away lots aswell ive noticed, after i eliminated all tanks, i ended up herding the infantry to their home hexes. All i had to do was run at them with my tanks, literally, they ran and got surpressed and i killed them all. You may want to get Stuarts for infantry killing too, they do a good job of it, ive just demolished a whole flank with just the five stuarts.

_____________________________

OFFICIAL: Stop! Stop, will you?! Stop that! Stop it! Now, look! No one
is to stone anyone until I blow this whistle! Do you understand?! Even,
and I want to make this absolutely clear, even if they do say 'Jehovah'.
CROWD: Ooooooh!...

(in reply to Slimey)
Post #: 9
Thanks ! - 11/21/2002 1:20:19 AM   
CatLord


Posts: 312
Joined: 10/21/2002
From: Lausanne, Switzerland
Status: offline
Thanks tiggwigg for all those useful tips (I was not knowing all of them).

Another small tip:

The best anti-infantry tank is the Crusader MkI CS
(Not the Cruisers, nor the MkII or III), because with one big gun and 3 MGs, it has the best fire power...

Similarly, in the MISC, the Brits have access to a formation called "L-R Desert group", with excellent jeeps (Chevrolets w/ 3 MGs), some commandos and recon squads (with +10% veteran bonus). A "must have" in campaign.

Cat

(in reply to Slimey)
Post #: 10
- 11/21/2002 8:53:39 PM   
Ezikel

 

Posts: 52
Joined: 10/21/2002
From: B'ham, England
Status: offline
Hmm, i might change a few tanks to the Crusader Mk1 CS later but at the mo i cant unless i change my Stuart 1's, i need the Matildas for their armor, Crusader II's for their tank killing and Cruiser III CS for their 90 AP (even tho its HE shells :-P). Gives me a warm fuzzy feeling when i get two PzIIIj's with one Cruiser III CS in two shots.

Anyway, ive been up against Germany now, and needless to say, with a few casualties, they got trounced. I just hid my tanks and infantry so they could see only the tops of the dunes, and planted about 6 2pdr AT guns ontop. With 8 25pdr arty and 8in offboard i made a nice long smoke screen on the other side of the dunes, german HTs all died before they could retreat after off loading and the PzIIIj's all got killed. I infiltrated SAS to their home hexs (nicely covered too) and they eliminated most infantry, i then snuck my Stuarts down a flank to assist.

_____________________________

OFFICIAL: Stop! Stop, will you?! Stop that! Stop it! Now, look! No one
is to stone anyone until I blow this whistle! Do you understand?! Even,
and I want to make this absolutely clear, even if they do say 'Jehovah'.
CROWD: Ooooooh!...

(in reply to Slimey)
Post #: 11
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