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RE: Wait, I can't read Cuttlefish's new AAR? - Cribtop (J) vs CF (A)

 
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RE: Wait, I can't read Cuttlefish's new AAR? - Cribtop ... - 10/25/2011 7:32:55 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
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Status: offline 		Lord have mercy! GreyJoy-isms are proliferating!


(in reply to obvert)
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RE: Wait, I can't read Cuttlefish's new AAR? - Cribtop ... - 10/25/2011 9:16:27 PM   
Cribtop


Posts: 3890
Joined: 8/10/2008
From: Lone Star Nation
Status: offline 		OK, bottom line, a disappointing day but we have the enemy cornered. Really need y'all's advice here.

Turns out Cuttlefish had a CL SCTF in the Colombo hex. We had everything on nav attack/port attack so no port attacks today. We did ok against the CLs and DDs but they are nimble so about half the enemy ships escape harm while 3 CLs and about 3 DDs suffer damage. Our sweeps over Colombo encounter no CAP, and there are no planes on nav search as MKB is unspotted (which amazes me).

Recon shows 103 ships in port with at least 3 BBs . Our Kates were supposed to be on "bombs only" to reduce flak losses in the port strike, but we missed a button so about half our CVs used torps and are out. Plenty of sorties and good fuel remaining. Our sub horde is unspotted and awaiting victims just outside port. No strike planes are lost today. MKB is in a position to cut off escape from Colombo. About 20 fighters and about 5 bombers and 5 auxiliary a/c are spotted there.

Question 1 - Will CF run, sit tight, or a mix of the two?

Question 2 - Based on the answer to Q1, what mix of attack missions should we order up tomorrow?

Question 3 - Tanaka Force could move to sit right behind our subs and probably get an intercept if anyone runs. He has 2 Kongos, 3 CAs and 8 DDs. Should we commit the surface forces? Moon is about 90%. Our ships would have to move full speed to guarantee arrival in the night phase, which is of course less of an advantage against the Royal Navy.

My bet is that CF runs with the fast stuff and sits with the merchies. Thus my instinct is to set all Kates without torps on Port Attack only, all Kates with torps on Nav/Port, all Vals on Nav only. Tanaka Force should move in, IMHO, in hopes that CF creates a big, sub-optimal TF that is much slower than our 30+ knot ships, runs afoul of our subs and planes, then has the coup de grace administered by our SCTF. However, there is no way to avoid risk of an adverse result if Tanaka goes in.

Thoughts?

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RE: Wait, I can't read Cuttlefish's new AAR? - Cribtop ... - 10/25/2011 9:21:38 PM   
Cribtop


Posts: 3890
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From: Lone Star Nation
Status: offline 		PS - Yamo I will answer your question about China soon.

PPS - GreyJoyisms are truly becoming the lingua franca of the AE Boards.

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RE: Wait, I can't read Cuttlefish's new AAR? - Cribtop ... - 10/25/2011 9:28:25 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline 		Wow, that's an interesting situation. Can I ask for more info?

Can you list the carriers present with air components and which have torps?

I'd recommend Tanaka force hang just out of range to clean up cripples after the air attack. If they went in at full speed (low op points) and came across the 3 Brit BBs, the outcome wouldn't be pretty.

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RE: Wait, I can't read Cuttlefish's new AAR? - Cribtop ... - 10/25/2011 9:32:15 PM   
Erkki


Posts: 1461
Joined: 2/17/2010
Status: offline 		How about detaching multiple 3-4-DD TFs with reaction allowed to escape routes from Colombo? They might wreak havoc in night combat and/or slow down the fleeing ships or make them react away from surface threat to stop them from escaping from KB's strike planes. Tomorrow have at least one B5N unit do port attack with at least some Zeros set to escort, target Colombo!

Question 1: if he will sit, he cant fly most or any fighter types from Burma front overnight. They're too short legged... So he'll have only the fighters he had today.

I would probably too sit with xAKs (and maybe BBs) but make everything else run.

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RE: Wait, I can't read Cuttlefish's new AAR? - Cribtop ... - 10/25/2011 9:36:19 PM   
Cribtop


Posts: 3890
Joined: 8/10/2008
From: Lone Star Nation
Status: offline 		Car Div 1, basically Kaga, Junyo and the CVLs, have torps. Car Div 2, the Shokakus, Akagi and Soryu, are out or functionally out. Hiryu is in Car Div 1 but was set to bombs and thus has torps. Hiyo is no present as she just got commissioned and has not yet joined.

You make a good point about Tanaka Force and that's what I'm worried about. OTOH, if CF piles everything that he plans to run into a single TF, the carnage could be fearsome as his already slow BBs will be held back by lord knows what. Still, we want to avoid attritional battles with the IJN heavies as a general matter.

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RE: Wait, I can't read Cuttlefish's new AAR? - Cribtop ... - 10/25/2011 9:39:17 PM   
Cribtop


Posts: 3890
Joined: 8/10/2008
From: Lone Star Nation
Status: offline 		Interesting idea, Erkki! I also have the dedicated MKB ASW TF of 4 DDs. Could probably assemble at least 3 or 4 good DDTFs.

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RE: Wait, I can't read Cuttlefish's new AAR? - Cribtop ... - 10/25/2011 9:44:08 PM   
Erkki


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

Interesting idea, Erkki! I also have the dedicated MKB ASW TF of 4 DDs. Could probably assemble at least 3 or 4 good DDTFs.


If he keeps his BBs in same TFs with their escorts, theres a good chance for there to be at least one 21 knot one. Just one night surface engagement and they're not going to make it, depending on where KB is positioned... How about moving KB W, NWW or even NW from Colombo?

I dont think I'd risk Kongos in combat against British BBs. Even if they slow them down to get eaten by KB they're invaluable as fast CV escorts/bomb sponges.

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RE: Wait, I can't read Cuttlefish's new AAR? - Cribtop ... - 10/25/2011 10:07:04 PM   
Cribtop


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From: Lone Star Nation
Status: offline 		I think you have the right of it. FYI, KB is planning to move to be in a position west of Colombo, but not in the line of anticipated retreat paths to the west or NW.

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RE: Wait, I can't read Cuttlefish's new AAR? - Cribtop ... - 10/25/2011 10:08:48 PM   
Cribtop


Posts: 3890
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From: Lone Star Nation
Status: offline 		One more thing, remember that Warspite ate a torp inbound to Colombo about 1 week ago, so she's probably in the yards and screwed. Still 2 UK BBs vs 2 Kongos ain't really a fight I'm thrilled about.

< Message edited by Cribtop -- 10/25/2011 10:09:15 PM >

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RE: Wait, I can't read Cuttlefish's new AAR? - Cribtop ... - 10/25/2011 10:11:54 PM   
Erkki


Posts: 1461
Joined: 2/17/2010
Status: offline 		BTW, which CLs did he have in that TF? Not those that gets withdrawn by mid July or early 43 I hope...

< Message edited by Erkki -- 10/25/2011 10:12:07 PM >

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RE: Wait, I can't read Cuttlefish's new AAR? - Cribtop ... - 10/25/2011 10:20:18 PM   
nashvillen


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RE: Wait, I can't read Cuttlefish's new AAR? - Cribtop ... - 10/25/2011 10:59:23 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		If I'm an Allied player in that postion, I'd be scared to sortie my battleships and other slower stuff with the KB on the loose. My first hope would be to put together as strong a CAP as possible, drawing from every base in India within range. If I could put up 100 or 150 fighters, I might just ride things out, hoping for the best. Even so, I might also form up my DDs into three or four destroyer TFs and sortie them in all directions hoping to inflict a little mayhem and perhaps cause some of the carriers to use up Ops points.

If I were the Japanese player, I think I'd set all my strike aircraft to naval first and port strike second. But you've probably given this alot more thought and have worked out a better plan.

Good luck.

(in reply to nashvillen)
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RE: Wait, I can't read Cuttlefish's new AAR? - Cribtop ... - 10/25/2011 11:41:39 PM   
Cribtop


Posts: 3890
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From: Lone Star Nation
Status: offline 		Canoe, fortunately for me and unfortunately for CF, unless he moved a lot of planes from the Assam bases to southern India in the last week, he doesn't have any more fighters available for CAP tomorrow. Plus, if he leave fast bait TFs available, my planes will focus on them as they did today, leaving the juicy targets safe in port with no port attack launching. I therefore think a goodly number of Kates have to be on port attack to handle this eventuality, and the bomb equipped ones won't hit many moving targets anyway, so they at least should be port attack only.

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RE: Wait, I can't read Cuttlefish's new AAR? - Cribtop ... - 10/25/2011 11:53:17 PM   
ny59giants


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Status: offline 		I would move my torpedo equipped CVs 7 hexes NW of Colombo with the bombs only CVs slightly closer. Those with torpedoes go with Naval Attack/Port and the bombs only set for Port/Rest. Only his fastest ships should get away.

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RE: Wait, I can't read Cuttlefish's new AAR? - Cribtop ... - 10/25/2011 11:59:00 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline 		Colombo is a level 9 port. It's going to be hard to sink a BB there. They'll just be bomb magnets and save a lot of other ships. If CF is smart, he'll leave the stuff in port and hope your bombing of the port is diluted by the vast number of ships he can afford to lose. I'd focus on naval attacks. The Kates can cause damage with the 250kg bombs against slower targets. The port isn't going anywhere. The TFs are.

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RE: Wait, I can't read Cuttlefish's new AAR? - Cribtop ... - 10/26/2011 12:06:38 AM   
Cribtop


Posts: 3890
Joined: 8/10/2008
From: Lone Star Nation
Status: offline 		True, but what if he just hunkers down with a few fast DDs to draw nav attacks? After another day or two, he WILL have more fighters there, closing the port attack window. Plus, in my experience Kates on port attack will drop 800kg bombs, which easily penetrate BBs. We won't sink them, but could cripple them and get some tankers on the side (CF has a LOT of TKs present).

A tough choice. The more he runs, the more nav attack I want. The more he sits, the more port attack I want. Argghh.

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RE: Wait, I can't read Cuttlefish's new AAR? - Cribtop ... - 10/26/2011 2:58:48 AM   
princep01

 

Posts: 943
Joined: 8/7/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Crib, I'd be inclined to go much more naval and much less Port (if any) this time. If he is going to run, tis now. If he doesn't run this time, then I'd do the port thing next time on the assumption that he isn't going to run at all. If his Hurricanes and other fighters are in Burma/ NE India, I doubt they can get to Colombo by next turn in numbers that will give him a chance to protect the port.

Sink, burn, pillage.

(in reply to Cribtop)
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RE: Wait, I can't read Cuttlefish's new AAR? - Cribtop ... - 10/26/2011 3:47:01 AM   
Cribtop


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From: Lone Star Nation
Status: offline 		Thanks for the advice, all. One problem is that the numbers of DDs are many, the numbers of DDs capable of a speed run to Colombo that can still make the RV with the Fleet Oilers are fewer. Decisions, decisions. Princep, I do agree that he either runs now or hunkers down for the duration. The way I see it, I'll have all Vals on Nav; all torpedo enabled Kates (approx 60%) on nav/port; and all bomb only Kates on port only. I think I can send one SCTF with 5 long legged DDs into the fray. MKB will pull WNW and stay within 6 hexes of Colombo. It will be very interesting, no matter what happens. I am (for once) holding out a lot of hope for my subs. There are so many in the way that contacts would seem inevitable, especially with the good moon tonight.

Thanks to you all again for the advice. I'm off to enter orders. Banzai!

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RE: Wait, I can't read Cuttlefish's new AAR? - Cribtop ... - 10/26/2011 5:39:37 AM   
Cribtop


Posts: 3890
Joined: 8/10/2008
From: Lone Star Nation
Status: offline 		The die is cast. We await the verdict of Heaven.

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Post #: 770
RE: Wait, I can't read Cuttlefish's new AAR? - Cribtop ... - 10/26/2011 3:44:44 PM   
Cribtop


Posts: 3890
Joined: 8/10/2008
From: Lone Star Nation
Status: offline 		The verdict of Heaven was rain screwing up our port attack and our brilliant admirals deciding to re-fuel DDs that didn't need re-fueling. @#$#@#%#$!!!!

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RE: Wait, I can't read Cuttlefish's new AAR? - Cribtop ... - 10/26/2011 3:54:54 PM   
Cribtop


Posts: 3890
Joined: 8/10/2008
From: Lone Star Nation
Status: offline 		May 27, 1942

Program note: This is the full report on the first day of "attacks" on Colombo.

Subs

No contacts, but Glens from 3 subs fly over Colombo to recon and improve DL there.

4th Fleet

No change.

SE Fleet

No change.

14th Army

No change.

16th Army

6 B-17s hit our flanking tank regiment near Daly with minimal effects.

CV Hiyo and BB Yamato arrive at Babeldoab. They will linger here as MKB is planning to move East in a big way after the Colombo raids to deal with any aggressive action CF may envision now that he knows our carriers are on the western map edge.

Endeh occupied.

25th Army

Re-organizing and preparing to ship combat troops out of Java and support troops in.

As reported above, MKB launches desultory raids on the CL/DD TF at Colombo. Final score shores CLs Marblehead and Durban heavily damaged, CL Newcastle less so (lots of non-penetrating hits by Val 60 kg bombs at long range, got her radar though). 3 DDs are also damage. Yippee! At least we don't lose any planes.

15th Army

A new tranche of base forces has arrived overland and will move out to improve airfields in the basin. This is the last overland march, future troops are coming by sea now that Sabang has fallen. In fact, several AA units are about to land at Rangoon.

China

Still moving to encircle the Wuchang stack. CF had sortied an HQ unit from Changsha to try to open a hexside, but now that we have a brigade to the west of the 2 isolated corps he will need more. More and more troops are gathering to march into the southern theater.

Other

Big Oil convoys are unloading in the Home Islands and the pipeline looks to be primed for continuous deliveries. Enemy subs seems to have abandoned the area north of Mindanao and even have become scarce in the Makassar Strait.


< Message edited by Cribtop -- 10/26/2011 3:56:11 PM >

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RE: Wait, I can't read Cuttlefish's new AAR? - Cribtop ... - 10/26/2011 4:10:14 PM   
Cribtop


Posts: 3890
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From: Lone Star Nation
Status: offline 		May 28, 1942

A truly craptacular day.

Subs

We knew we were hosed when a Glen reported it couldn't recon Colombo due to bad weather over the target.

A Jake from MKB reports a hit on a sub nearby, while a newly operational ASW group with high skills reports a hit on a sub near Sabang.

4th Fleet

No change, but we expect CF to do something nearby now that he knows MKB is elsewhere.

SE Fleet

Lae makes level 4 forts.

14th Army

No change.

16th Army

Dobo and Taliaboe invaded by DBCL warriors. FYI, it's hard to be an unprepped DBCL unit post invasion bonus.

CF continues to try to hit our tanks with B-17s. The pattern is rest for a few days, attack 1 day with 6 B-17s, come back the next with 1-3 planes, then rest again. Perhaps he is flying them from too small an airfield as so far they are ineffective. Unfortunately, he's likely to figure it out soon enough.

25th Army

Fail at Colombo. CF stayed put and disbanded the CL TF, leaving us wishing for the second day in a row we had launched all Kates on Port Attack only. Weather over MKB prevents all AM Phase launches other than search planes.

In the PM Phase, weather improves over the carriers. CF sent 3 DDs near Male to draw air attacks and they do. We sink DD Kortenaer and damage DD Piet Hein. This is fine as it goes, and we await our big port attack with baited breath. Unfortunately, only Junyo launches due to weather and no sweeps go in. We lose 4 Kates for nothing to a CAP of 16 Hurricanes, about what we expected. Our escort does a great job for a while but eventually about 6 get through. No bombs are dropped and thus ends today's glorious action. Ugh.

Worse yet, after the replay we have the dreaded small circles around both CarDivs and Tanaka Force. The accursed DD re-fueling strikes again. We had plenty of gas not only to reach the nearby Oilers but also to get home to Port Blair, which we set as home port to try to avoid this. Now MKB is going to move 1 hex tomorrow and air Ops will be limited. Yuck. This is turning into a debacle.

We have no choice but to juke 1 hex, probably SE, and pull down all attacks on Colombo tomorrow. Assuming we survive, MKB will begin to return home but set everything for one big attack on Colombo as we pass by.

This has been an effective "rope a dope" by CF. The CL/DD TF played off the frustrating lack of control on Nav Attacks to abort our Port Attacks. It forces the attacker to commit to Port Attack exclusively, which of course opens the possibility of getting "Midwayed" by unexpected enemy CVs or even SCTFs. Hmmm.

15th Army

We had extended the range of our Netties at Rangoon in hopes that CF's large concentrations of merchies at Diamond Harbor and Calcutta ran for it, but no joy.

China

No change.


< Message edited by Cribtop -- 10/26/2011 4:11:20 PM >

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Post #: 773
RE: Wait, I can't read Cuttlefish's new AAR? - Cribtop ... - 10/26/2011 5:07:04 PM   
Erkki


Posts: 1461
Joined: 2/17/2010
Status: offline 		Ouch! Though better to have that happen with a port strike than CV battle... For tomorrow, are you going to set some squads to sweep to perhaps go in before the strikes?

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Post #: 774
RE: Wait, I can't read Cuttlefish's new AAR? - Cribtop ... - 10/26/2011 7:01:29 PM   
Cribtop


Posts: 3890
Joined: 8/10/2008
From: Lone Star Nation
Status: offline 		I had some today but they didn't fly. One CarDiv did, one didn't due to weather even though both were in the same hex.

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RE: Wait, I can't read Cuttlefish's new AAR? - Cribtop ... - 10/26/2011 7:09:19 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
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From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Don't you just hate it when well planned missions turn into debacles? They're sort of like tar babies - you want to get rid of them, wash your hands clean, and move on, but you can't quite work your hands free. One small thing goes wrong, leading to another, leading to another, and suddenly it's Midway or Market Garden or Dieppe. I think author Michael Crichton called such a sequence as "a cascade." I hope you'll be able to withdraw without something of that nature happening (I bet you will).

(in reply to Cribtop)
Post #: 776
RE: Wait, I can't read Cuttlefish's new AAR? - Cribtop ... - 10/26/2011 7:16:51 PM   
Cribtop


Posts: 3890
Joined: 8/10/2008
From: Lone Star Nation
Status: offline 		You caught my feeling exactly. Had we gone all in on port attack we hammer CF on the first day, probably crippling most capital ships. Instead, nothing good happens. We are in grave danger tomorrow if CF were to sortie his SCTFs or even his Brit CVs. Fortunately, he doesn't know we are in trouble and will probably sit tight tomorrow. I'm going to gather some good ships with Ops points remaining under Tanaka to deal with surface threats and post DD TFs along likely approaches. Finally, we still have our subs. Still, quite annoying as the net result is likely to be giving away KB's position on a far map edge for little to no gain.

Worse, I have to go to a conference for the rest of the week so no new turns until probably Saturday. I for one plan to have a few beers tonight and try to think about the Rangers instead of the game.

One more comment. This DD re-fueling thing effectively shortens the legs of TFs too much, IMHO. IRL, the DD skippers know there's a huge gas station a day's sail away and don't need to gas up. Such is life.

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RE: Wait, I can't read Cuttlefish's new AAR? - Cribtop ... - 10/26/2011 7:18:01 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline 		Look on the bright side. Even if you don't end up doing much damage, you really didn't lose much of anything. Sure, it was a great plan. CF didn't cooperate, nor did the weather. Fire your weather man and start working another plan. I'd keep the subs there. I'll bet the moment you withdraw, CF starts a mass exodus. The subs should get in a few shots. Also, I'll bet he stations some fighters there. He doesn't know if you're planning on coming back or not. That's should help the Burma front.

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(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 778
RE: Wait, I can't read Cuttlefish's new AAR? - Cribtop ... - 10/26/2011 7:25:53 PM   
Cribtop


Posts: 3890
Joined: 8/10/2008
From: Lone Star Nation
Status: offline 		That's the spirit, Mike.

Here's what I'm working on. First, the subs stay as I fully agree he runs once I leave. Next, I'm toying with re-fueling from the Oilers and launching a combined MKB/LBA port attack on Diamond Harbor and Calcutta. He has 30ish ships in each with minimal fighter cover and probably less now. They can't get away with MKB at the base of the Bay of Bengal. The targets are mostly xAKs, so not as sexy, but it would be a quick hit followed by a hasty move to the East in case he tries something.

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Post #: 779
RE: Wait, I can't read Cuttlefish's new AAR? - Cribtop ... - 10/26/2011 7:50:52 PM   
Insano

 

Posts: 228
Joined: 7/23/2009
From: Joplin, Missouri
Status: offline 		arrgh, a frustrating few days. This JFB had delusions of grandeur about your well planned raid. I think you have the right idea - go all in for one last try at a big port strike. In this situation I would set my dive bombers for level bombing altitude and accept the reduced accuracy. I would definately smack Diamond Harbor or Calcutta on the way out. At least it might reduce frustration. I would like to point out how huge your earlier destruction of the AVG has been in this operation - far reaching consequences that one. They probably would have been in reach had they still been in play.

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