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ABDA Command - 10/26/2011 8:10:12 PM

steamboateng

Posts: 354
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From: somewhere in Massachusetts
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Iv've started a new Dec 8th Campaign........... still early in game. I've pulled McArthur's B-17 from the Phillipines to rebuild the AG. To do so I had to put them under ABDA Command (to dump the restricted status) and flew them to Darwin. Does ABDA remain a valid command when the DEI falls? Will it cost me additional PP's to transfer the Group to SW Pacific command?

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RE: ABDA Command - 10/26/2011 8:15:07 PM

Capt Cliff

Posts: 1791
Joined: 5/22/2002
From: Northwest, USA
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Yes, open the squadron window and select the HQ the squadron is attacted to (upper left hand corner), in green. It should tell you how much it will cost to change HQ's.

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(in reply to steamboateng)

Post #: 2

RE: ABDA Command - 10/26/2011 8:28:35 PM

Wirraway_Ace

Posts: 1400
Joined: 10/8/2007
From: Austin / Brisbane
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: steamboateng

Iv've started a new Dec 8th Campaign........... still early in game. I've pulled McArthur's B-17 from the Phillipines to rebuild the AG. To do so I had to put them under ABDA Command (to dump the restricted status) and flew them to Darwin. Does ABDA remain a valid command when the DEI falls? Will it cost me additional PP's to transfer the Group to SW Pacific command?

In my experience, this will not be an issue. ABDA as a HQs will go away, but your unit will remain unrestricted and HQs relationships for air units in the game are unimportant.

Mike

(in reply to steamboateng)

Post #: 3

RE: ABDA Command - 10/26/2011 8:31:05 PM

spence

Posts: 5400
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: Vancouver, Washington
Status: offline

Actually ABDA seems to be like a bad penny...Sept 42 and it just showed up at Aden again.

(in reply to steamboateng)

Post #: 4

RE: ABDA Command - 10/26/2011 8:31:11 PM

Capt Cliff

Posts: 1791
Joined: 5/22/2002
From: Northwest, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wirraway_Ace

quote:

ORIGINAL: steamboateng

Iv've started a new Dec 8th Campaign........... still early in game. I've pulled McArthur's B-17 from the Phillipines to rebuild the AG. To do so I had to put them under ABDA Command (to dump the restricted status) and flew them to Darwin. Does ABDA remain a valid command when the DEI falls? Will it cost me additional PP's to transfer the Group to SW Pacific command?

In my experience, this will not be an issue. ABDA as a HQs will go away, but your unit will remain unrestricted and HQs relationships for air units in the game are unimportant.

Mike

Yes, ABBA goes away ... I attach them to Aussie command so I can send them to Darwin.

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Capt. Cliff

(in reply to Wirraway_Ace)

Post #: 5

RE: ABDA Command - 10/26/2011 9:06:30 PM

Schanilec

Posts: 4040
Joined: 6/12/2010
From: Grand Forks, ND
Status: offline

Yes, ABBA goes away ... I attach them to Aussie command so I can send them to Darwin.
[/quote]

ABBA will be replaced with Men at Work.

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RE: ABDA Command - 10/27/2011 1:14:14 AM

steamboateng

Posts: 354
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I sent 2 beat-up sq'ns to Darwin under ABDA Command. I could have put them under Ausie command to dump the restriction, but McArthur was was ranting about how was he going to explain to Marshall why the US''s finest bomber units were going to a command w/no US units! Politics ya know!
According to what's been posted so far, when ABDA abdicates, the bombers will remain unrestricted, and can be reassigned as needed (will withdraw 11/42).

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RE: ABDA Command - 10/27/2011 10:21:54 AM

Sardaukar

Posts: 9847
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/Israel
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Schanilec

Yes, ABBA goes away ... I attach them to Aussie command so I can send them to Darwin.

ABBA will be replaced with Men at Work.

Or..if Soviets get activated, by Simply Red....

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RE: ABDA Command - 10/27/2011 5:06:22 PM

Schanilec

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

Or..if Soviets get activated, by Simply Red....

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RE: ABDA Command - 10/27/2011 5:07:12 PM

Schanilec

Posts: 4040
Joined: 6/12/2010
From: Grand Forks, ND
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Gawd...you dated me on that one.

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Post #: 10

RE: ABDA Command - 10/28/2011 3:31:21 PM

dr.hal

Posts: 3335
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From: Covington LA via Montreal!
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In all seriousness, I think this question is good and has not been clearly answered. Ok we all know the ABDA command goes away... some are saying it reappears. For those who have played that far in a full scenario, is that true? Plus, more importantly do you have to pay additional political points to switch those air units AND ground units to another command? Someone mentioned that for air units "it doesn't matter" but as I recall, to coordinate an air strike the fact that all attacking units come from the same air command (as well as the same base) is part of the calculation for coordinated v. uncoordinated attack... Or did I read things wrong?

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RE: ABDA Command - 10/28/2011 3:54:58 PM

Alfred

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: dr.hal

In all seriousness, I think this question is good and has not been clearly answered. Ok we all know the ABDA command goes away... some are saying it reappears. For those who have played that far in a full scenario, is that true? Plus, more importantly do you have to pay additional political points to switch those air units AND ground units to another command? Someone mentioned that for air units "it doesn't matter" but as I recall, to coordinate an air strike the fact that all attacking units come from the same air command (as well as the same base) is part of the calculation for coordinated v. uncoordinated attack... Or did I read things wrong?

1. Whenever you change a land or air unit from one HQ to another, PPs must be expended.

2. Point (1) still applies to a unit which is attached to an HQ which is no longer in play.

3. ABDA, like Burma Corps, is one of those HQs which eventually are withdrawn automatically.

4. Contrary to what is regularly posted here, there is benefit in trying to have proper chains of commands for both land and air units. These benefits are much more subtle than the big obvious difference between being attached to a restricted or an unrestricted HQ.

5. Most players are seduced by the sexiness of immediate combat to not bother paying proper attention to opportunity costs and establishing a fully efficient "logistics tail". Hence they simply look at the cost of changing HQs and are satisfied to pay the cost only once, failing to evaluate when the expenditure of PPs a second time is a worthwhile investment.

Alfred

(in reply to dr.hal)

Post #: 12

RE: ABDA Command - 10/28/2011 4:24:40 PM

Wirraway_Ace

Posts: 1400
Joined: 10/8/2007
From: Austin / Brisbane
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

quote:

ORIGINAL: dr.hal

In all seriousness, I think this question is good and has not been clearly answered. Ok we all know the ABDA command goes away... some are saying it reappears. For those who have played that far in a full scenario, is that true? Plus, more importantly do you have to pay additional political points to switch those air units AND ground units to another command? Someone mentioned that for air units "it doesn't matter" but as I recall, to coordinate an air strike the fact that all attacking units come from the same air command (as well as the same base) is part of the calculation for coordinated v. uncoordinated attack... Or did I read things wrong?

1. Whenever you change a land or air unit from one HQ to another, PPs must be expended.

2. Point (1) still applies to a unit which is attached to an HQ which is no longer in play.

3. ABDA, like Burma Corps, is one of those HQs which eventually are withdrawn automatically.

4. Contrary to what is regularly posted here, there is benefit in trying to have proper chains of commands for both land and air units. These benefits are much more subtle than the big obvious difference between being attached to a restricted or an unrestricted HQ.

5. Most players are seduced by the sexiness of immediate combat to not bother paying proper attention to opportunity costs and establishing a fully efficient "logistics tail". Hence they simply look at the cost of changing HQs and are satisfied to pay the cost only once, failing to evaluate when the expenditure of PPs a second time is a worthwhile investment.

Alfred

Alfred,

You have seen an appreciable effect on air units in terms of there command relationships? I have not, although some players imply they have better air unit coordination with units all of the same HQ. I have not seen a logistics advantage to air units, although, as you point out, it may be too subtle for me to notice.

I may have a philosophic disagreement with you on planning for future HQ relationships. If the game designers had intended for command relationships to be a key component of the game, units assigned to HQs that are withdrawn would roll into the new HQ structure. HQs were dynamic based on the needs of the theater and political considerations and subordinate units were realigned with the HQ realignments. ABDA is the appropriate HQs for the DEI battle and ABDA subordinate units were not left without a HQs relationship overnight when ABDA was stood down. This is different from the decision to transfer a heavy bomber wing from the US West Coast to SEAC and the logisitics tail that would have to gone with it.

Mike

< Message edited by Wirraway_Ace -- 10/28/2011 5:45:06 PM >

(in reply to Alfred)

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RE: ABDA Command - 10/28/2011 4:32:28 PM

witpqs

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From: Argleton
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The only benefits for air units' HQ relationship that I can think of at the moment are replacement aircraft and aircraft upgrades. There are rules regarding when you are allowed to take them (and in the case of replacement aircraft where they appear), and the group's HQ's location can be part of that.

(in reply to Wirraway_Ace)

Post #: 14

RE: ABDA Command - 10/28/2011 4:58:54 PM

Wirraway_Ace

Posts: 1400
Joined: 10/8/2007
From: Austin / Brisbane
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

The only benefits for air units' HQ relationship that I can think of at the moment are replacement aircraft and aircraft upgrades. There are rules regarding when you are allowed to take them (and in the case of replacement aircraft where they appear), and the group's HQ's location can be part of that.

witpqs,

interesting comment on replacements and whether "replacments delayed" is related to poor HQs relationships. Aircraft upgrades in my experience are only related to distance to an Air HQs with the required amount of supply in relationship to the maximum range of the aircraft in question.

(in reply to witpqs)

Post #: 15

RE: ABDA Command - 10/28/2011 5:18:51 PM

steamboateng

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From: somewhere in Massachusetts
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Well, McArthur's ill starred bombers are sitting on a Darwin apron now. I suppose sometime in the next few monnths they'll attract enough attention to get the group ebuilt

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RE: ABDA Command - 10/28/2011 5:36:25 PM

witpqs

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From: Argleton
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wirraway_Ace

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

The only benefits for air units' HQ relationship that I can think of at the moment are replacement aircraft and aircraft upgrades. There are rules regarding when you are allowed to take them (and in the case of replacement aircraft where they appear), and the group's HQ's location can be part of that.

witpqs,

interesting comment on replacements and whether "replacments delayed" is related to poor HQs relationships. Aircraft upgrades in my experience are only related to distance to an Air HQs with the required amount of supply in relationship to the maximum range of the aircraft in question.

Oh, I didn't say that "replacements delayed" is related to air HQs. IIRC that message simply means that you are only allowed one batch of replacements per week and you have to wait some number of days before the week is up since your last batch.

I am referring to what you mention about distance from HQs for upgrades. For replacements, I'm not sure if the same x2 distance might apply when there is not enough supply at the air group's base. In any event having the HQ there might pull in the extra supplies needed. Otherwise, replacement aircraft come in elsewhere (such as the national capital of the base) and need to transit to the group's base.

(in reply to Wirraway_Ace)

Post #: 17

RE: ABDA Command - 10/28/2011 9:43:18 PM

Rainer

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Joined: 11/21/2000
From: Neuching, Bavaria, Germany
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quote:

4. Contrary to what is regularly posted here, there is benefit in trying to have proper chains of commands for both land and air units. These benefits are much more subtle than the big obvious difference between being attached to a restricted or an unrestricted HQ.

Would you mind to give some more details?

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Post #: 18