RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108p3 updated 10 July (2nd part)

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RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108p3 updated 10 Ju... - 11/5/2011 2:10:28 PM

michaelm75au

Posts: 13500
Joined: 5/5/2001
From: Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline

The sunk list issue is fixed in next build. The underlying scroll box wasn't locked in place so it was still accessible.

The damaged plane one I am having trouble finding why this would be so.

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(in reply to inqistor)

Post #: 1051

RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108p3 updated 10 Ju... - 11/5/2011 4:30:05 PM

bk19@mweb.co.za

Posts: 258
Joined: 7/26/2011
Status: offline

So where is this Beta 1108q9c build that has already been fixed and is now probably names Beta 1108q9d?

I can only find Beta 1108q9B :(

(in reply to michaelm75au)

Post #: 1052

RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108p3 updated 10 Ju... - 11/5/2011 4:34:58 PM

Sardaukar

Posts: 9847
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/Israel
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: bk19@mweb.co.za

So where is this Beta 1108q9c build that has already been fixed and is now probably names Beta 1108q9d?

I can only find Beta 1108q9B :(

Post number 1038 in this thread.

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Post #: 1053

RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108p3 updated 10 Ju... - 11/5/2011 4:38:22 PM

bk19@mweb.co.za

Posts: 258
Joined: 7/26/2011
Status: offline

Thank you very much.

(in reply to Sardaukar)

Post #: 1054

RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108p3 updated 10 Ju... - 11/5/2011 10:34:38 PM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm

No replacements. No pilots.

There is no freebie pilots when you run out of pilots anymore as there was in WITP.

This was shortcircuting the new pilot system.

-Bullwinkle

Michael, could you point out where this change was made in the various beta or official patch notes? I can't find any reference to it.

I get tied in knots talking about the various pots where pilots reside, so can you confirm that this feature you're discussing above means that when there are no pilots in the Replacement column on the pilot management screen under the 'I' button on the task bar, that no pilot in the 12-month pipeline will be pulled into the air unit? That the air unit, and all others needing pilots, will have to wait until the next month to get a body? I don't consider pipeline trianees to be "freebies"; they're already on the board. A "freebie" would be a pilot without one day of experience pulled into a unit.

The Japanese historically used lots and lots of pilots with less than a year of trianing at the end of the war, especially for kamis. If the change you speak of means the training pipeline is walled off from access this is a pretty big thing for late-war Japanese play given how steep daily losses can be in 1945-46.

How does one know how many pilots are available for each month? And for the whole war?

Isn't the Manpower supposed to represent men available for any task the military might need them for? So if your manpower is high, then shouldn't you have pilot availability, even if they are completely untrained?

(in reply to bk19@mweb.co.za)

Post #: 1055

RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108p3 updated 10 Ju... - 11/6/2011 12:31:00 AM

Reg

Posts: 2787
Joined: 5/26/2000
From: NSW, Australia
Status: offline

The trouble is that with the pilot training techniques that players have developed using the game mechanics, they won't stay untrained for very long....

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(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 1056

RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108p3 updated 10 Ju... - 11/6/2011 1:28:01 AM

n01487477

Posts: 4779
Joined: 2/21/2006
Status: offline

Michael -
not sure if this is on your list ...

1. Ind screen correction
2. Mouse over base-ship icon.

Attachment (1)

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(in reply to michaelm75au)

Post #: 1057

RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108p3 updated 10 Ju... - 11/6/2011 4:59:43 AM

michaelm75au

Posts: 13500
Joined: 5/5/2001
From: Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: n01487477

Michael -
not sure if this is on your list ...

1. Ind screen correction
2. Mouse over base-ship icon.

1. Fixed
2. Were the CLAA in repair yard? They count as 'in port' on the mouse over.

< Message edited by michaelm -- 11/6/2011 5:07:39 AM >

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Michael

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Post #: 1058

RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108p3 updated 10 Ju... - 11/6/2011 5:35:35 AM

n01487477

Posts: 4779
Joined: 2/21/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm

quote:

ORIGINAL: n01487477

Michael -
not sure if this is on your list ...

1. Ind screen correction
2. Mouse over base-ship icon.

1. Fixed
2. Were the CLAA in repair yard? They count as 'in port' on the mouse over.

Yeah - my bad ! Sorry don't usually make this simple mistake.

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EconDoc
TrackerAE
Tutes&Java

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Post #: 1059

RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108p3 updated 10 Ju... - 11/6/2011 7:28:27 AM

Alfred

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm

No replacements. No pilots.

There is no freebie pilots when you run out of pilots anymore as there was in WITP.

This was shortcircuting the new pilot system.

-Bullwinkle

Michael, could you point out where this change was made in the various beta or official patch notes? I can't find any reference to it.

I get tied in knots talking about the various pots where pilots reside, so can you confirm that this feature you're discussing above means that when there are no pilots in the Replacement column on the pilot management screen under the 'I' button on the task bar, that no pilot in the 12-month pipeline will be pulled into the air unit? That the air unit, and all others needing pilots, will have to wait until the next month to get a body? I don't consider pipeline trianees to be "freebies"; they're already on the board. A "freebie" would be a pilot without one day of experience pulled into a unit.

The Japanese historically used lots and lots of pilots with less than a year of trianing at the end of the war, especially for kamis. If the change you speak of means the training pipeline is walled off from access this is a pretty big thing for late-war Japanese play given how steep daily losses can be in 1945-46.

How does one know how many pilots are available for each month? And for the whole war?

Isn't the Manpower supposed to represent men available for any task the military might need them for? So if your manpower is high, then shouldn't you have pilot availability, even if they are completely untrained?

1. Hit <I> key. Press Pilot Replacement button. Under the "Replacement" column is the number of trainees who each month enter the 12 month training pipeline. The monthly intake varies greatly between the different nationalities. Severall Allied nationalities have no trainees at all entering the training pipeline.

2. Manpower centres have nothing to do with pilot replacements. They are only revelant to the Japanese player.

Alfred

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 1060

RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108p3 updated 10 Ju... - 11/6/2011 7:33:47 AM

Alfred

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm

One thing I have found is that airborne search radar is not being checked before the planes are spotted, but is used in the actual plane-to-plane combat.
Logically, if planes have no radar and no detection from the ground, then actual interception should be less likely.
The reason I noticed this is that there is a slot to record the air radar device of the defenders, but in the few night combats in this save, there was no value stored there.

I have added a simple check for radar in the CAP or raid being detected in this build. It should lower the odds that CAP without some radar assistance will engage raid. NF or a/c with air radar should do better at intercepting raids than those without.

Feedback appreciated.

Totally agree with this approach but I predict with a confidence factor of 99% that when players experience even less effective night CAP there will be howls of protest. Stand firm against the inevitable howls of protest. If, and that is a very big if, there will subsequently be a need to tweek the effect of night bombing after the above change, the area to be investigated should be to make bombers without radar less effective in night bombing, rather than making day fighters without radar the equal of night fighters who do have radar installed.

Alfred

(in reply to michaelm75au)

Post #: 1061

RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108p3 updated 10 Ju... - 11/6/2011 7:46:08 AM

JeffroK

Posts: 6391
Joined: 1/26/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm

One thing I have found is that airborne search radar is not being checked before the planes are spotted, but is used in the actual plane-to-plane combat.
Logically, if planes have no radar and no detection from the ground, then actual interception should be less likely.
The reason I noticed this is that there is a slot to record the air radar device of the defenders, but in the few night combats in this save, there was no value stored there.

I have added a simple check for radar in the CAP or raid being detected in this build. It should lower the odds that CAP without some radar assistance will engage raid. NF or a/c with air radar should do better at intercepting raids than those without.

Feedback appreciated.

Totally agree with this approach but I predict with a confidence factor of 99% that when players experience even less effective night CAP there will be howls of protest. Stand firm against the inevitable howls of protest. If, and that is a very big if, there will subsequently be a need to tweek the effect of night bombing after the above change, the area to be investigated should be to make bombers without radar less effective in night bombing, rather than making day fighters without radar the equal of night fighters who do have radar installed.

Alfred

But JG300 pilots didnt have RADAR

I've played a fortnight of Downfall and nothing much has changed, though its hard to tell if the interceptor scares away the bomber so the raid is less effective.

It would be good to see H2s/Gee/Oboe represented, makes Tiger Force an effective weapon.

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(in reply to Alfred)

Post #: 1062

RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108q9b updated 26 O... - 11/6/2011 8:28:52 AM

Chris21wen

Posts: 6249
Joined: 1/17/2002
From: Cottesmore, Rutland
Status: offline

Another small request.

Is it possible to show the hex coordinates when you hover over a hex while setting a sub/ship patrol or when setting waypoint.

(in reply to michaelm75au)

Post #: 1063

RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108q9b updated 26 O... - 11/6/2011 12:27:51 PM

witpqs

Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris H

Another small request.

Is it possible to show the hex coordinates when you hover over a hex while setting a sub/ship patrol or when setting waypoint.

Or if not, then a hot-key that will display each hex's coordinates?

(in reply to Chris21wen)

Post #: 1064

RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108p3 updated 10 Ju... - 11/6/2011 9:18:49 PM

inqistor

Posts: 1813
Joined: 5/12/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm

The sunk list issue is fixed in next build. The underlying scroll box wasn't locked in place so it was still accessible.

The damaged plane one I am having trouble finding why this would be so.

Hmmm, that is very strange. I took closer look, and it seems, that in most cases, when attacker fly from land, there is report about damaged planes, but not always. In case of KB there is always NO damaged reported. But I also have seen this for unescorted strikes on Clark...

Maybe there is NO damaged planes somehow? Because I see quite lots of CAP planes afterwards (like over 50 at PH, after ONE day from strike).

(in reply to michaelm75au)

Post #: 1065

RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108q9b updated 26 O... - 11/6/2011 9:20:51 PM

herwin

Posts: 6059
Joined: 5/28/2004
From: Sunderland, UK
Status: offline

You won't want to look at my AAR, since there's a recent moan about the ground combat engine, but I did try out the night bombing fix. Pre-fix, I hadn't been seeing Japanese air-to-air losses intercepting my night bombers, and this was no different. However 35 B-24s did knock over 11 Helens on the ground, and 32 TBFs killed a Jake. It's only my experienced AGs that are doing this, but they're getting efficient. You need to increase the mean dispersion of bombs at night, probably by a factor of ten or more, before you overlay the bomb hit points on the target array.

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(in reply to witpqs)

Post #: 1066

RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108q9b updated 26 O... - 11/7/2011 9:25:39 AM

Bliztk

Posts: 779
Joined: 4/24/2002
From: Electronic City
Status: offline

Hi michael, I have seen a decrease in the nigth fighter losses in the latest patch, but only have run two turns, so the sample is still low.

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Post #: 1067

RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108q9b updated 26 O... - 11/7/2011 9:44:36 AM

herwin

Posts: 6059
Joined: 5/28/2004
From: Sunderland, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bliztk

Hi michael, I have seen a decrease in the nigth fighter losses in the latest patch, but only have run two turns, so the sample is still low.

However, there's a very nice increase in the number of aircraft killed on the ground.

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Post #: 1068

RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108q9b updated 26 O... - 11/7/2011 9:57:23 AM

michaelm75au

Posts: 13500
Joined: 5/5/2001
From: Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline

Increase in ground hits seems strange as bombing hasn't been touched yet.

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Michael

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Post #: 1069

RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108q9b updated 26 O... - 11/7/2011 10:37:19 AM

Bliztk

Posts: 779
Joined: 4/24/2002
From: Electronic City
Status: offline

I think that in 5-7 turns we will have a good sample before-after patch

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Post #: 1070

RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108q9b updated 26 O... - 11/7/2011 11:18:16 AM

herwin

Posts: 6059
Joined: 5/28/2004
From: Sunderland, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm

Increase in ground hits seems strange as bombing hasn't been touched yet.

The patch keeps my opponent's Tonies from taking on my B-24s. It cuts his losses, but leaves my B-24s undisturbed in their bombing.

First, night bombing should be 5-7 times less effective than day bombing for equivalent target arrays, simply because that was the increase in the CEP.

Second, night fighter versus bomber engagements should single planes against single planes--no formations. Neither side should be particularly effective, but the engagement should have an effect on night bombing similar to the disruption to anti-ship bombing produced by local control AA--see Methods of Operations Research. The gun didn't hit anything, but neither did the bomber.

If you allow the SEFs to engage the bombers, but with neither side doing much damage to their opponents and with the bombers messing up their bomb runs, you will come closer to how things worked. In the same vein, the purpose of close fighter escort was not to kill the CAP but to keep the CAP from disturbing the bombers in their bomb runs. The purpose of flak suppression was not to damage the AA, but to keep it from disturbing the bomb runs.

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Post #: 1071

RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108q9b updated 26 O... - 11/8/2011 1:28:10 AM

jcjordan

Posts: 1900
Joined: 6/27/2001
Status: offline

Michael, not sure if it's been asked or not or outside of scope you're working on but can you look into NF & sweeps at night? It seems as though NF if you set them to night duty & give it a sweep mission to an enemy base, it won't sweep. You can give it a attack airfield or port mission at night & it will work but night sweeps don't seem to as I've never seen any increase in # of missions of pilots in units set that way. It may be EXTREMELY bad die rolls but I've left units for a month & no missions ever took place that I could see.

(in reply to herwin)

Post #: 1072

RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108q9b updated 26 O... - 11/8/2011 10:14:42 AM

herwin

Posts: 6059
Joined: 5/28/2004
From: Sunderland, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jcjordan

Michael, not sure if it's been asked or not or outside of scope you're working on but can you look into NF & sweeps at night? It seems as though NF if you set them to night duty & give it a sweep mission to an enemy base, it won't sweep. You can give it a attack airfield or port mission at night & it will work but night sweeps don't seem to as I've never seen any increase in # of missions of pilots in units set that way. It may be EXTREMELY bad die rolls but I've left units for a month & no missions ever took place that I could see.

It will sweep--at 100 feet. It's a question of pilot experience level.

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Post #: 1073

RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108q9b updated 26 O... - 11/8/2011 7:29:55 PM

DmitryZ

Posts: 33
Joined: 10/24/2011
Status: offline

Hi, Michael!
The new version of beta has restored sinchronisation at our game completely. Thank you once more! But I can't to find a dll-file for 1108d. The game goes properly with the old one, but WITP-tracker does not. Could you upload the new version of dll or, may be, I've missed something and it is somethere?

(in reply to michaelm75au)

Post #: 1074

RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108q9b updated 26 O... - 11/8/2011 10:32:36 PM

jcjordan

Posts: 1900
Joined: 6/27/2001
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: herwin

quote:

ORIGINAL: jcjordan

Michael, not sure if it's been asked or not or outside of scope you're working on but can you look into NF & sweeps at night? It seems as though NF if you set them to night duty & give it a sweep mission to an enemy base, it won't sweep. You can give it a attack airfield or port mission at night & it will work but night sweeps don't seem to as I've never seen any increase in # of missions of pilots in units set that way. It may be EXTREMELY bad die rolls but I've left units for a month & no missions ever took place that I could see.

It will sweep--at 100 feet. It's a question of pilot experience level.

Now do you set the units altitude to 100 or what? I've had mine set at many altitudes mostly 5-10k & when mission is set to sweep it won't go but if I give it a mission to attack port or air base regardless of alt setting it will attack/sweep at 100 as you say but it won't go otherwise from what I've seen. Pilot xp is in the 60-70 range with skills about the same.

(in reply to herwin)

Post #: 1075

RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108q9b updated 26 O... - 11/9/2011 2:42:19 AM

zuluhour

Posts: 5244
Joined: 1/20/2011
From: Maryland
Status: offline

Just another thanks Michaelm. Enjoying the updates.

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Post #: 1076

RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108q9b updated 26 O... - 11/9/2011 3:22:29 AM

Zeta16

Posts: 1199
Joined: 11/20/2002
From: Columbus. Ohio
Status: offline

Just download the new beta patch, it seems Japan can no longer turn off repair yards.

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Post #: 1077

RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108q9b updated 26 O... - 11/9/2011 3:39:09 AM

n01487477

Posts: 4779
Joined: 2/21/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zeta16

Just download the new beta patch, it seems Japan can no longer turn off repair yards.

And what should that matter - it costs "nothing" anyway.Why would you turn them off for?

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Post #: 1078

RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108q9b updated 26 O... - 11/9/2011 4:21:41 AM

Zeta16

Posts: 1199
Joined: 11/20/2002
From: Columbus. Ohio
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: n01487477

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zeta16

Just download the new beta patch, it seems Japan can no longer turn off repair yards.

And what should that matter - it costs "nothing" anyway.Why would you turn them off for?

Always thought repair yards used HI

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Post #: 1079

RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108q9b updated 26 O... - 11/9/2011 8:01:20 AM

herwin

Posts: 6059
Joined: 5/28/2004
From: Sunderland, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jcjordan

quote:

ORIGINAL: herwin

quote:

ORIGINAL: jcjordan

Michael, not sure if it's been asked or not or outside of scope you're working on but can you look into NF & sweeps at night? It seems as though NF if you set them to night duty & give it a sweep mission to an enemy base, it won't sweep. You can give it a attack airfield or port mission at night & it will work but night sweeps don't seem to as I've never seen any increase in # of missions of pilots in units set that way. It may be EXTREMELY bad die rolls but I've left units for a month & no missions ever took place that I could see.

It will sweep--at 100 feet. It's a question of pilot experience level.

Now do you set the units altitude to 100 or what? I've had mine set at many altitudes mostly 5-10k & when mission is set to sweep it won't go but if I give it a mission to attack port or air base regardless of alt setting it will attack/sweep at 100 as you say but it won't go otherwise from what I've seen. Pilot xp is in the 60-70 range with skills about the same.

I had the altitude set to 10K feet.

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Post #: 1080

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> Tech Support >> RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108p3 updated 10 July (2nd part)