Slitherine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rusty1961

Okay, I don't think my Japanese opponent can take Palembang from me until early '43.

He has launched two attacks against my "festung" and has about 1100AV to my-get this- 21,000 defensive AV (everyone has Palembang as their target and the x3 defense). His first attack cost him 11,000 KIA to my 1,000 and his next deliberate attack a week or so later cost him 5,000 to my 1,000. Of course, supplies aren't an issue for me.

Thus, given his push into Burma (he still hasn't taken Rangoon), I don't see him taking Palembang till he secures Burma.

My question is this: What impact on his economy and movement of units will he be subjected to given his failure to secure this vital piece of real estate?

He isn't doing any moving in China. We fought, bled, and withdrew to our respective lines. No change really since the beginning of the war.

And how can I take advantage of his postponing of his attack on Palembang with his new push in Burma.

Take care!

Rusty

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rusty1961

Okay, I don't think my Japanese opponent can take Palembang from me until early '43.

He has launched two attacks against my "festung" and has about 1100AV to my-get this- 21,000 defensive AV (everyone has Palembang as their target and the x3 defense). His first attack cost him 11,000 KIA to my 1,000 and his next deliberate attack a week or so later cost him 5,000 to my 1,000. Of course, supplies aren't an issue for me.

Thus, given his push into Burma (he still hasn't taken Rangoon), I don't see him taking Palembang till he secures Burma.

My question is this: What impact on his economy and movement of units will he be subjected to given his failure to secure this vital piece of real estate?

He isn't doing any moving in China. We fought, bled, and withdrew to our respective lines. No change really since the beginning of the war.

And how can I take advantage of his postponing of his attack on Palembang with his new push in Burma.

Take care!

Rusty

Allies with 21,000 AV in early 1942? Where? I didn't think the Allies had that much AV on the entire board.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rusty1961

He has launched two attacks against my "festung" and has about 1100AV to my-get this- 21,000 defensive AV (everyone has Palembang as their target and the x3 defense).

When you see the Southern Cross, For the first time
You understand now, Why you came this way

quote:

My question is this: What impact on his economy and movement of units will he be subjected to given his failure to secure this vital piece of real estate?

quote:

ORIGINAL: ChezDaJez

quote:

But it is one that I will develop a house rule for in future games. The house rule may either prohibit its use or simply remove any impediment to the Japanese player blitzing Sumatra before the fall of Singapore. This is not a gamey tactic as I do not consider it an exploit of the game mechanics. I do believe that it is so far removed from any historical possibility as to make it's real life WWII use a fantasy.

Chez

You don't need a HR for this. As the Japanese there are at least to different tactics that can be used to prevent this.

(in reply to ChezDaJez)

quote:

Allies with 21,000 AV in early 1942? Where? I didn't think the Allies had that much AV on the entire board.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ChezDaJez

quote:

My question is this: What impact on his economy and movement of units will he be subjected to given his failure to secure this vital piece of real estate?

I am in this situation in my game against Canoerebel. He still holds southern Sumatra including Palembang, Padang, Benkolen and Oosthaven. The denial of the oil will hurt but at the moment Tarakan and Balikpapn coupled with numerous smaller oilfileds are meeting my needs. The part I am worried about is the severe restriction these forces have placed on my movements. I am that I am unable to disband any major surface units for repair in any port within 4e range of Oosthaven. I am severely restricted in what units I can operate near Sumatra. Anything larger than a DD generates unwanted attention. Muchof the SRA is denied to the Japanese player becasue of this.

Unfortunately I will never be able to take it because I simply do not have the land forces to overcome the 40+ land units at Palembang and Oosthave without stripping China, the SRA and Burma to the bone. I estimate that I would need upwards of 6000 AV and probably much more than that to dent the defense. Add to that the 400+ allied fighters and 200+ allied bombers that months of recon indicate are parked at Oosthaven and you end up with a fortress Sumatra that could never have existed in real life.

I have never encountered this tactic before and my hat is off to Canoerebel. It was a totally unexpected move. But it is one that I will develop a house rule for in future games. The house rule may either prohibit its use or simply remove any impediment to the Japanese player blitzing Sumatra before the fall of Singapore. This is not a gamey tactic as I do not consider it an exploit of the game mechanics. I do believe that it is so far removed from any historical possibility as to make it's real life WWII use a fantasy.

Chez

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rusty1961

quote:

Allies with 21,000 AV in early 1942? Where? I didn't think the Allies had that much AV on the entire board.

The 21,000 is after all modifications have been added to the defense. Twice he's attacked and twice I've had an AV of 21,000. He's lost 16,000 men in total, so he's down a division in men.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Puhis

I think this shows one of the drawback of the supply system. Palembang can self-support huge number of troops just because there's big refinery.

I guess men there have well oiled digestion...

quote:

ORIGINAL: ChezDaJez

...... or simply remove any impediment to the Japanese player blitzing Sumatra before the fall of Singapore.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Puhis

I think this shows one of the drawback of the supply system. Palembang can self-support huge number of troops just because there's big refinery.

I guess men there have well oiled digestion...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erkki

In the betas from at least p8 and onwards refineries dont generate supply.

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ORIGINAL: LoBaron

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erkki

In the betas from at least p8 and onwards refineries dont generate supply.

There goes Fortress Palembang.

quote:

There goes Fortress Palembang.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erkki

In the betas from at least p8 and onwards refineries dont generate supply.

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

If you have Palembang and a few of the ports nearby it's not that hard to bring in masses of supplies. The troops got there somehow afterall. Java is usually the last area captured by the Japanese, so that leaves lots of sealanes open unless teh KB camps outside of Oosthaven for a month. Yes Palembang makes some supply, but probably not enough for the kind of fortress that could withstand an attack with massed air attacks.

Refineries should make supplies in game terms if planes are flown based on supply. Where alse would aviation fuel come from?

It seems that if the Allies in the war had thought it important enought to bring in a few divisions to secure Palembang, they might have also been able to bring in a few ship loads of canned goods and bullets.

"To meaningless French Idealism, Liberty, Fraternity and Equality...we answer with German Realism, Infantry, Cavalry and Artillery" -Prince von Bülov, 1870-

quote:

ORIGINAL: ChezDaJez

quote:

My question is this: What impact on his economy and movement of units will he be subjected to given his failure to secure this vital piece of real estate?

I am in this situation in my game against Canoerebel. He still holds southern Sumatra including Palembang, Padang, Benkolen and Oosthaven. The denial of the oil will hurt but at the moment Tarakan and Balikpapn coupled with numerous smaller oilfileds are meeting my needs. The part I am worried about is the severe restriction these forces have placed on my movements. I am that I am unable to disband any major surface units for repair in any port within 4e range of Oosthaven. I am severely restricted in what units I can operate near Sumatra. Anything larger than a DD generates unwanted attention. Muchof the SRA is denied to the Japanese player becasue of this.

Unfortunately I will never be able to take it because I simply do not have the land forces to overcome the 40+ land units at Palembang and Oosthave without stripping China, the SRA and Burma to the bone. I estimate that I would need upwards of 6000 AV and probably much more than that to dent the defense. Add to that the 400+ allied fighters and 200+ allied bombers that months of recon indicate are parked at Oosthaven and you end up with a fortress Sumatra that could never have existed in real life.

I have never encountered this tactic before and my hat is off to Canoerebel. It was a totally unexpected move. But it is one that I will develop a house rule for in future games. The house rule may either prohibit its use or simply remove any impediment to the Japanese player blitzing Sumatra before the fall of Singapore. This is not a gamey tactic as I do not consider it an exploit of the game mechanics. I do believe that it is so far removed from any historical possibility as to make it's real life WWII use a fantasy.

Chez

quote:

ORIGINAL: Andrew Brown

quote:

ORIGINAL: Puhis

I think this shows one of the drawback of the supply system. Palembang can self-support huge number of troops just because there's big refinery.

I guess men there have well oiled digestion...

Indeed. And an oversight on my part. With hindsight, I would not have had refineries output any supply points - just fuel, and this is my recommendation for any modders out there.

Andrew