Slitherine

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ORIGINAL: J P Falcon
...unless you are employed by Steam of course......

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ORIGINAL: apathetic lurker

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ORIGINAL: Scott_WAR

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ORIGINAL: J P Falcon

Here's the bottom line to this debate.....if you have a choice, why on earth would you want to have an internet connected game installer on your pc, if you can have the ability to simply download the setup files for a game, and install them anywhere you want whether you are connected to the internet or not (a 'la Matrix)? I understand that if there is a particular title you want, and it is only available via Steam, then go ahead and buy it. But to request a gaming company to abandon their simple install approach and go the Steam route makes absolutely no sense, unless you are employed by Steam of course......

No,...the bottom line is actually.........we should each be able to make our own choice and not be limited just because you cant see why someone else would make a choice different than you.
While you like downloading setup files,..and entering serial keys,...not to mention finding the DVD the install file is on,....hoping it isnt scratched or cracked,...finding that serial key......entering it............... I would rather install steam and click on the title I own to downlaod and install it. So much easier, and never in any danger of being damaged or lost.
But as already mentioned the BIG point is the huge increase in customers and profit Matrix would see by having their games on steam.

But we are only guessing about the huge increase in customers aren't we? No one knows..... As far as I believe many of the clientele of Steam(and others of their ilk) are Ritalin-fueled adolescents who wouldn't know what the term "turned-based" was if it bit them on the ass...... I know I partake of Steam ever once in a while but somehow can't picture War In The East on a 10 buck sale.....I really cant picture them selling more than 1000 or so copies that way. Hell, half of the people would stop after the 4th or 5th word and go on to the next big shiny thing because it has BIG GUNS! ! 3-D BOOBIES !!!! RTS !!!!! FIRST PERSON !!!!LATEST N GREATEST !!!!!

I know people brought up Paradox Games as an example of wargames making it on Steam. There is a big difference between a pseudo rts like hearts of iron and WiTE.. Personally I like them both but most of those who play HOI probably know of Matrix, have been here but don't like turn-based or the Board-game style of WiTE and most of the other Matrix titles puts them off...Most of those that I personally know who own HOI are wargame-lite type of people.....

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ORIGINAL: Scott_WAR

Just because you dont like it doesnt mean you should try to prevent others from using it.

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ORIGINAL: Scott_WAR

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ORIGINAL: J P Falcon

So much easier, and never in any danger of being damaged or lost.

Two weeks ago in Pennsylvania, we had a small nor'easter storm that knocked out my cable and internet for four days. I had power so I could use the computer, but since most of my steam library is not installed, I could not play any steam games. I just took a good old Matrix DISC of Hannibal and, internet or not, was playing in no time. Matrix 1, steam 0.

(in reply to Scott_WAR)

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ORIGINAL: Gelatinous Cube

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Most of those that I personally know who own HOI are wargame-lite type of people.....

Nay. Paradox's style of Grand Strategy is more in-depth and stimulating than any board game i've ever played. It is simply a case of old-school vs. new-school. Many of Matrix's wargames are of that old-school-something-kinda-like-Panzer-General-but-better-ish feel. Which is fantastic. Paradox's titles are on the extreme opposite end of the wargaming spectrum, where advanced AI, layers and layers of data for you the player to deal with, and then the fight. I like to think of the principle difference as:

Panzer General is all about the battle. Not in a small way, but in a strategic big-picture way. Hearts of Iron is about the four years of back-breaking work that went into getting your Army to that battle in the first place--and then the Battle, to boot. Both good approaches. Nothing 'lite' about either of them.

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ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd
Upshot is, if it's not advertised "outside it's comfort zone", it's staying niche...and expensive. That's it.

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ORIGINAL: Gelatinous Cube
Paradox's titles are on the extreme opposite end of the wargaming spectrum, where advanced AI,

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ORIGINAL: sterckxe

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ORIGINAL: Gelatinous Cube
Paradox's titles are on the extreme opposite end of the wargaming spectrum, where advanced AI,

ROTFLMAO

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

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ORIGINAL: Gelatinous Cube

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Most of those that I personally know who own HOI are wargame-lite type of people.....

Nay. Paradox's style of Grand Strategy is more in-depth and stimulating than any board game i've ever played. It is simply a case of old-school vs. new-school. Many of Matrix's wargames are of that old-school-something-kinda-like-Panzer-General-but-better-ish feel. Which is fantastic. Paradox's titles are on the extreme opposite end of the wargaming spectrum, where advanced AI, layers and layers of data for you the player to deal with, and then the fight. I like to think of the principle difference as:

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ORIGINAL: Iain McNeil

Very unlikely - Steam would not be interested in these type of games. They only want cheap mass-market games. Can you imagine War in the East at $80 :) It just wouldn't happen.

So you'd have to buy direct from us. However we have a very simple serial number system that means none of the hassle of remembering account details etc. Once you buy the game you own it and can install as often as you like and download it again later.

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ORIGINAL: Iain McNeil

The serial number issue is one we're addressing. You no longer have to enter serials for patches - it looks them up and auto enters them for you. New patches will have this easier to use system. We could even skip the step completely if it detects a valid serial.

On the Steam argyuments we're not convionced that the Steam audience is a good match for the majority of the catalogue. Take in to account also that Steam take 30%, you have to customise your code to use their system which is a significant amount of work for the number of games we're talking about and Steam absolutely require you to slash your prices. Overall you have to sell a lot more copies to just stand still in terms of revenues. It is not teh alm dunk that everyone thinks it is. It also fragments the community which has an intagible cost but something we are very aware of and reluctant to do.

Another thing to bear in mind is Steam get 200 submissions a week and only 1 person allocated to review them. I'd guess only about 1% of the games people try to get on steam actually get on steam. The vast majority are never looked at or rejected. I'm guessing the majority of our line up would slide to the "dont even review category :)"

Having said all this it may be something we trial at some point. Never say never!

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ORIGINAL: Iain McNeil

The serial number issue is one we're addressing. You no longer have to enter serials for patches - it looks them up and auto enters them for you. New patches will have this easier to use system. We could even skip the step completely if it detects a valid serial.

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ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd
Point is the Matrix system for redownloads is flawed. They could hold a download counter against each purchase so you can't download it more than twice, three times, x times in a year...

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC



For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

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ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd
I couldn't download from there...it was a game which I had purchased some time ago (over a year I believe) - and my download had expired - that's the issue I'm talking about.

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC



For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

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ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

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ORIGINAL: apathetic lurker

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ORIGINAL: Scott_WAR

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ORIGINAL: J P Falcon

Here's the bottom line to this debate.....if you have a choice, why on earth would you want to have an internet connected game installer on your pc, if you can have the ability to simply download the setup files for a game, and install them anywhere you want whether you are connected to the internet or not (a 'la Matrix)? I understand that if there is a particular title you want, and it is only available via Steam, then go ahead and buy it. But to request a gaming company to abandon their simple install approach and go the Steam route makes absolutely no sense, unless you are employed by Steam of course......

No,...the bottom line is actually.........we should each be able to make our own choice and not be limited just because you cant see why someone else would make a choice different than you.
While you like downloading setup files,..and entering serial keys,...not to mention finding the DVD the install file is on,....hoping it isnt scratched or cracked,...finding that serial key......entering it............... I would rather install steam and click on the title I own to downlaod and install it. So much easier, and never in any danger of being damaged or lost.
But as already mentioned the BIG point is the huge increase in customers and profit Matrix would see by having their games on steam.

But we are only guessing about the huge increase in customers aren't we? No one knows..... As far as I believe many of the clientele of Steam(and others of their ilk) are Ritalin-fueled adolescents who wouldn't know what the term "turned-based" was if it bit them on the ass...... I know I partake of Steam ever once in a while but somehow can't picture War In The East on a 10 buck sale.....I really cant picture them selling more than 1000 or so copies that way. Hell, half of the people would stop after the 4th or 5th word and go on to the next big shiny thing because it has BIG GUNS! ! 3-D BOOBIES !!!! RTS !!!!! FIRST PERSON !!!!LATEST N GREATEST !!!!!

I know people brought up Paradox Games as an example of wargames making it on Steam. There is a big difference between a pseudo rts like hearts of iron and WiTE.. Personally I like them both but most of those who play HOI probably know of Matrix, have been here but don't like turn-based or the Board-game style of WiTE and most of the other Matrix titles puts them off...Most of those that I personally know who own HOI are wargame-lite type of people.....

On the other hand, I used to be solely an FPS player, loving the latest and greatest. I loved "sims" which weren't actually sims but were visceral

Then I stumbled across Red Devils Over Arnhem. It was cheap - maybe £10 at the time in a shop. I looked at the back and I think the first day I put it back on the shelf. Second time I saw it, I bought it - after a few turns, I put it away. I just didn't get it.

Then one day I found the website for the game (here) had some info from members and never looked back.

So to suggest that the majority of Steam users are ritalin fuelled adolescents and would not be interested in turn based games is naive. It will be true to a point. But bearing in mind how many members steam has, it would be worth a punt to get new blood in. Get new blood in = more customers = more sales = lower prices.

And the number could grow exponentially...each new wargamer knowing several people, half of whom he could turn to wargaming (all speculation of course)...but it stands to reason that the more exposure you have, the more customers you'll get

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ORIGINAL: Iain McNeil

Take in to account also that Steam take 30%

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ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

Erik - I agree totally that your serial number system is by far the least intrusive - and I've said so before.

The Steam debate (I say debate with a great big fat tongue in cheek) is someone asking if you were ever going to sell on there. They were not suggesting you went and sold solely on there - but somehow it got converted to that. Next thing you know the vipers are out.

Your members area was not working like that when I last had to re-download - when was this introduced?

And whilst I have your attention - when are we going to be able to view our orders? If you paid by paypal you cannot retreive your order info - and that's been an issue since the days of Digital River. I cannot see any of my orders on Plimus because it doesn't accept anything other than the last 4 digits of your credit card and email address.

apathetic lurker
Steam are not the first and won't be the last - I'm not being erm...apathetic about it but I presume you buy using credit card from Matrix (or other online retailers)? The only reason buying through Matrix is any safer than buying through iTunes, Sony, Steam or any other big online retailer is their size. I would suggest they are as vulnerable (from a technology standpoint) as any other online merchant. You put your credit card info into the web and there's a chance it will get stolen.