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Legends - Invasion and Ground Combat - 11/19/2011 6:48:14 PM

Malevolence

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There are some really great new major features in Distant Worlds Legends, like bonus resources, characters, carriers, rail guns and phasers --- but there are also a lot of little improvements you will notice when you play.

I usually follow a hyper-expansion strategy in my DW games, so I was really interested in some of the improvements to invasions and ground combat.

For example, the attrition rate for ground troops in battles is now spread across all troops in the fight, not just one troop being sequentially destroyed at a time. Battles continue until one force is annihilated, but you are going to see readiness and strength more uniformly effected in surviving troop units. To give the player more information about ground combat, some new details were added to the colony screen (see top image). Now we can directly see the force ratios involved and watch the changes during the battle.

In terms of protecting yourself from invasion, keep an eye out for an important wonder -- the Merkidor Planetary Fortress (see bottom image)...

quote:

An impregnable stronghold with heavy defensive weaponry. Defense against invasion is increased by +200% for the colony with this wonder. It also provides a +30% development bonus to the colony.

Located on the armor branch of the technology tree, the fortress is a huge benefit for protecting your most valuable colony.

The duration of ground combat has also been tweaked so that battles with large opposing forces progress more quickly. That said, both you and your opponent still have enough time for reinforcement strategies.

In past games, did your newly conquered colonies immediately rebel? Colony tax now immediately goes to zero after a successful invasion. No more instant rebellion due to the previous faction's high tax rate. Troops on a colony's surface also help deter civil unrest.

One final note regarding troops. It always bothered me that unfinished troop units cost me the full maintenance cost. I was disadvantaged for adding four or five units to a colony build queue. As each unit recruited to full strength, I was paying for all the units as if they were full strength. No more. Now troop maintenance costs only begin when a troop unit is complete. There are no maintenance costs for troops while being initially recruited.

There are many other little tweaks and changes that improve DW gameplay, but as a diabolical tyrant, I particularly like the changes coming to invasion and ground combat. Speaking of tyranny, keep watching for some more notes about the new population policy features.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Malevolence -- 11/19/2011 6:49:22 PM >

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Post #: 1

RE: Legends - Invasion and Ground Combat - 11/19/2011 7:06:19 PM

Bingeling

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Good news about the tax reset on invasion.

Do I understand correctly that before in a 8 vs 4 invasion...

The 8 would burn down defenders to 3 quite quickly, then down to 2...0 taking 1 or 2 casualties?
While now they burn all 4 defenders equally, so the attackers all end up quite a bit hurt?

This would be a nice little change to "invasion hopping". I have never payed too much attention to my troops after invasion, and just loaded them ready to go to the next target. If the troops are a bunch at half health and easy to kill, I may want to reconsider that.

Is there any news on control of which troops go where, and on battle info?

(in reply to Malevolence)

Post #: 2

RE: Legends - Invasion and Ground Combat - 11/19/2011 7:15:50 PM

Malevolence

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In current DW, all the losses your troops take during ground combat are applied to one troop unit at a time.� So at the end of a battle the winning side would have some of their troop units destroyed, one troop unit with low strength, and the remaining survivors at full strength and readiness.� Not anymore.� Now all the troops involved in combat suffer attrition.� So the surviving force is going to have many units with lower readiness and strength of somewhat varying degrees.

EDIT: I should also add that only the troop units actually involved in combat change. Don't expect to see an entire force of 30 ground troop units receive experience bonuses (or attrition) just because they fought an opposing force of 3 troop units.

< Message edited by Malevolence -- 11/19/2011 7:22:53 PM >

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RE: Legends - Invasion and Ground Combat - 11/19/2011 7:23:15 PM

cookie monster

Posts: 1693
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From: Birmingham,England
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The above doesn't really sound like any new feature.

Just something which should have been ingame to begin with.

The fortress wonder is ok.

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Post #: 4

RE: Legends - Invasion and Ground Combat - 11/19/2011 7:24:47 PM

J HG T

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From: Kiadia Prime
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Nice changes! The "one vs. one" ground combats really didn't make any sense if you thought about it. Also, medical facilities are now very useful in warships transporting troops.

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Post #: 5

RE: Legends - Invasion and Ground Combat - 11/19/2011 7:42:24 PM

Malevolence

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Malevolence
There are some really great new major features ... but there are also a lot of little improvements you will notice when you play ...

quote:

ORIGINAL: cookie monster
The above doesn't really sound like any new feature.

Just something which should have been ingame to begin with.

quote:

The troll is strong with this one.

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*Please remember all posts are made by a malevolent, autocratic despot whose rule is marked by unjust severity and arbitrary behavior. Your experiences may vary.

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Post #: 6

RE: Legends - Invasion and Ground Combat - 11/19/2011 7:57:32 PM

ASHBERY76

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Nice improvements.Is the General a unit in itself or does it attach to a troop.

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RE: Legends - Invasion and Ground Combat - 11/19/2011 8:10:25 PM

Malevolence

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generals provide a number of bonuses that can help (or hurt) attack, defense, maintenance cost, recruitment, and recovery with all the troops in a fleet or on a colony. you assign them to a fleet or friendly colony. when assigned to a fleet, they will drop with the invasion force. the outcome of events like battles can improve their skills or spawn a trait. ground battles or building troops can also spawn a general. some races have an affinity for generals, so they spawn more often. they can be killed in combat.

< Message edited by Malevolence -- 11/19/2011 8:12:13 PM >

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Post #: 8

RE: Legends - Invasion and Ground Combat - 11/19/2011 8:15:08 PM

ehsumrell1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ASHBERY76

Nice improvements.Is the General a unit in itself or does it attach to a troop.

In conjunction with what Malevolence stated;

The Troop General is a race character of its own. He/she can be assigned to a
colony planet with troops or without troops (the General will enhance troop
recruitment). The General can also be aboard a Troop Transport or any other
ship which has troops or a troop carrying component. The General can also
be assigned to a specific fleet which has at least one ship with a troop
carrying component. The General will accompany the troops during an invasion
and remain on the planet (if they are successful, and firstmost if they get
past the Planets' defenses and reach the surface)

Yes, the General, and any other character may be killed! Assassination,
planetary bombardment, SilverMist creature attack, and other ways!

"Where is that damn troop transport with our reinforcements?"

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by ehsumrell1 -- 11/19/2011 8:19:58 PM >

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Post #: 9

RE: Legends - Invasion and Ground Combat - 11/19/2011 8:31:24 PM

cookie monster

Posts: 1693
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From: Birmingham,England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Malevolence

quote:

ORIGINAL: Malevolence
There are some really great new major features ... but there are also a lot of little improvements you will notice when you play ...

quote:

ORIGINAL: cookie monster
The above doesn't really sound like any new feature.

Just something which should have been ingame to begin with.

quote:

The troll is strong with this one.

NICE!!!!

I was specifically talking about the troop ground combat "Improvements"

The all troops take damage, and all new troops cost maintenance were hardly improvements.

Should have been patched out ages ago.

There has been no patch for ROTS since March, CodeForce haven't posted since around March.

I reported 10 serious bugs and never had a response.???

If you complained to customer complaints 10 times and didnt get a response wouldnt you be annoyed about uploading 10 save games to the server.

So before calling someone a troll... Check their post count, know ALL about their history, and previous bug reporting on this forum.

Haha the "new" guy calls me a troll!!!

Haha

Oh yeah trolls are repetetive and don't explain themselves I only posted once before being insulted.

Don't call people trolls who you don't know.

Green Button them!

This is my last word on this matter.

(in reply to Malevolence)

Post #: 10

RE: Legends - Invasion and Ground Combat - 11/19/2011 9:09:49 PM

Erik Rutins

Posts: 37503
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From: Vermont, USA
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Hi Cookie Monster,

quote:

ORIGINAL: cookie monster
The all troops take damage, and all new troops cost maintenance were hardly improvements.
Should have been patched out ages ago.

Those were not bugs, so they would not have been patched. These are improvements, though they may be very minor for some players. We haven't even mentioned them in the features list, so Malevolence wanted to highlight a few that may be nice surprises.

quote:

There has been no patch for ROTS since March, CodeForce haven't posted since around March.
I reported 10 serious bugs and never had a response.???
If you complained to customer complaints 10 times and didnt get a response wouldnt you be annoyed about uploading 10 save games to the server.

You may have missed my post regarding Return of the Shakturi. After the major 1.5.0.8 update, we expected that the next update for ROTS would come in parallel with the work on Legends. I posted about that several times. Unfortunately, doing the update in parallel proved to be more difficult than expected. The good news is that another update is still coming and now it will have the full benefit of all the fixes made during the development of Legends as well.

We ended up having to do the same thing with the original Distant Worlds and updated that again after the Return of the Shakturi release (we also included some of the AI improvements in that update). I'm sorry this has caused frustration, but we're moving as fast as we can and you have not been forgotten.

Regards,

- Erik

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CEO, Matrix Games LLC

For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

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(in reply to cookie monster)

Post #: 11

RE: Legends - Invasion and Ground Combat - 11/19/2011 10:24:24 PM

Sithuk

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Nice improvements. Thanks for the info.

There doesn't appear to be a clear reason why we aren't told the total defending strength in an easy to read single value. It would have been clearer to have the total defending strength given with the breakdown in brackets after.

quote:

To give the player more information about ground combat, some new details were added to the colony screen (see top image).

< Message edited by Sithuk -- 11/19/2011 10:26:43 PM >

(in reply to Erik Rutins)

Post #: 12

RE: Legends - Invasion and Ground Combat - 11/19/2011 10:31:27 PM

Keston

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Is the tooltip describing what facilities actually do (for a wonder in this case) something new? Or just for wonders? Or do I just somehow have it not enabled in game?

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Post #: 13

RE: Legends - Invasion and Ground Combat - 11/19/2011 11:45:46 PM

Malevolence

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sithuk

Nice improvements. Thanks for the info.

There doesn't appear to be a clear reason why we aren't told the total defending strength in an easy to read single value. It would have been clearer to have the total defending strength given with the breakdown in brackets after.

quote:

To give the player more information about ground combat, some new details were added to the colony screen (see top image).

I agree something like "246K vs 320K (178K + 142K from population)" would be an improvement.

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*Please remember all posts are made by a malevolent, autocratic despot whose rule is marked by unjust severity and arbitrary behavior. Your experiences may vary.

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RE: Legends - Invasion and Ground Combat - 11/19/2011 11:47:13 PM

Malevolence

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Keston

Is the tooltip describing what facilities actually do (for a wonder in this case) something new? Or just for wonders? Or do I just somehow have it not enabled in game?

Many tool tips in DW Legends; not just wonders.

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*Please remember all posts are made by a malevolent, autocratic despot whose rule is marked by unjust severity and arbitrary behavior. Your experiences may vary.

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Post #: 15

RE: Legends - Invasion and Ground Combat - 11/20/2011 3:42:53 AM

MartialDoctor

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Look like some nice minor tweaks. Question regarding troops (and this might not be just for Legends but in general):

When troops regiments "heal", do they retain their strength? I believe they do but it doesn't make logical sense. If many troops die in battle and that regiment must get new troops, they'd obviously be getting green troops without the experience. Thus, their overall effectiveness would be less now that green troops are mixed with the veteran ones.

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Post #: 16

RE: Legends - Invasion and Ground Combat - 11/20/2011 4:50:11 AM

Nedrear

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An army, supplied by veterans, is in most cases a better army than you can imagine. First of a veteran will help you not to repeat his mistakes on a battlefield. He will guide you through your fear or moral endeavours and he can train you.
A veteran army which is "replenished" by ordinary troops should therefore not suffer a mayor blow in overall prowess. Though a little penalty would be logical yes.

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RE: Legends - Invasion and Ground Combat - 11/20/2011 5:03:46 AM

Gelatinous Cube

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nedrear

An army, supplied by veterans, is in most cases a better army than you can imagine. First of a veteran will help you not to repeat his mistakes on a battlefield. He will guide you through your fear or moral endeavours and he can train you.
A veteran army which is "replenished" by ordinary troops should therefore not suffer a mayor blow in overall prowess. Though a little penalty would be logical yes.

Should depend on the casualties taken. A unit that takes 10% casualties repeatedly will be quite experienced. A unit that takes 90% casualties will be drained of most of its leadership, at all levels.

(in reply to Nedrear)

Post #: 18

RE: Legends - Invasion and Ground Combat - 11/20/2011 6:33:33 AM

cookie monster

Posts: 1693
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From: Birmingham,England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MartialDoctor

Look like some nice minor tweaks.� Question regarding troops (and this might not be just for Legends but in general):

When troops regiments "heal", do they retain their strength?� I believe they do but it doesn't make logical sense.� If many troops die in battle and that regiment must get new troops, they'd obviously be getting green troops without the experience.� Thus, their overall effectiveness would be less now that green troops are mixed with the veteran ones.�

I never noticed any degrading of my 20,000 strong troop units when I was doing mass invasions.

My guess is that new recruits do not lower the troop experience, but this is just a guess.

When you have high level troops make sure to build the troop cloning facilty.

This way all your troops are high strength.

(in reply to MartialDoctor)

Post #: 19

RE: Legends - Invasion and Ground Combat - 11/20/2011 9:53:01 AM

Data

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I always wanted to see this in any ground combat game, I really loved this experience / rookie mix in Panzer General 2. Afaik in DW once you gain the experience you retain it even if 90% of the troops are lost and the unit is renewed with rookies.

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Post #: 20

RE: Legends - Invasion and Ground Combat - 11/20/2011 2:09:24 PM

ASHBERY76

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Status: offline

It would be logical to have reinforcents lowering experience,strength and readines for both realism and gameplay reasons,ala stop snowballing now that many units will survive invasions with the new tweaks.

< Message edited by ASHBERY76 -- 11/20/2011 2:11:00 PM >

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Post #: 21

RE: Legends - Invasion and Ground Combat - 11/20/2011 6:28:59 PM

Malevolence

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Keep in mind, as of Legends, troop units only really have one attribute -- strength. Readiness is the rounded percentage of the units total strength.

If my 129th Weltraumjager Battalion has a readiness of 75 and a strength of 10978 then it's full strength level is 14600. (the readiness shown is rounded from 75.192%)

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*Please remember all posts are made by a malevolent, autocratic despot whose rule is marked by unjust severity and arbitrary behavior. Your experiences may vary.

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Post #: 22

RE: Legends - Invasion and Ground Combat - 11/20/2011 8:41:57 PM

unclean

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Do you know if the AI is more suspicious of sneak attacks in Legends? Like they'll think it's possibly a little suspect when you have half your troop ships on a sightseeing trip around their homeworld?

quote:

ORIGINAL: J HG T

Nice changes! The "one vs. one" ground combats really didn't make any sense if you thought about it. Also, medical facilities are now very useful in warships transporting troops.

quote:

medical

Nice! They heal troops now?

(in reply to J HG T)

Post #: 23

RE: Legends - Invasion and Ground Combat - 11/20/2011 9:21:12 PM

Kayoz

Posts: 1516
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From: Timbuktu
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cookie monster

Haha the "new" guy calls me a troll!!!

Haha

Oh yeah trolls are repetetive and don't explain themselves I only posted once before being insulted.

Don't call people trolls who you don't know.

Green Button them!

This is my last word on this matter.

If you say anything critical of DW or Matrix in general, you should expect to get the "troll" label. It seems that the standards on this forum for "troll" is "be critical of DW".

I'm not a real fan of the green button - if you ignore positions you don't like, then why bother to come to the forums at all?

(in reply to cookie monster)

Post #: 24

RE: Legends - Invasion and Ground Combat - 11/20/2011 9:50:53 PM

Malevolence

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kayoz
If you say anything critical of DW or Matrix in general, you should expect to get the "troll" label. It seems that the standards on this forum for "troll" is "be critical of DW".

that maybe true, but that wasn't my reason. a poster's reputation precedes them. if they complain in a thread about new features by saying there are no fixes and improvements and then come to a thread about improvements pointing out the OP's post isn't about new features... demonstrating zero appreciation for anything being offered... they are trolling... when does the guy whose been demanding change say, "thanks for the change."

as cookie monster pointed out, however, his behavior is based on bitter vet syndrom. some may accept this as a valid excuse, but in my mind it adds nothing here... certainly not any recommendation for further improvement... like other replies did.

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Post #: 25

RE: Legends - Invasion and Ground Combat - 11/20/2011 10:16:44 PM

Kayoz

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Malevolence

a poster's reputation precedes them. if they complain in a thread about new features by saying there are no fixes and improvements and then come to a thread about improvements pointing out the OP's post isn't about new features... demonstrating zero appreciation for anything being offered... they are trolling... when does the guy whose been demanding change say, "thanks for the change."

I have found most of cookie monster's posts to be fairly balanced - if he is critical of something, it's usually only after it's been discussed and presented to Matrix, but without an adequate (if any) response.

You state that he has "zero appreciation" and offers nothing. He stated specifically that he has reported 10 serious bugs with no response. I'm not sure how you can classify that as "nothing". If bug reporting isn't positive and helpful for the game, then I don't know what is. It seem rather unfair that you label his posts as "useless trolling" despite the contributions he's made.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Malevolence
as cookie monster pointed out, however, his behavior is based on bitter vet syndrom. some may accept this as a valid excuse, but in my mind it adds nothing here... certainly not any recommendation for further improvement... like other replies did.

Constructive criticism, which is what he's doing for the most part - does add something to the game. Bug reports, suggestions to changes, offering work-arounds - these apparently don't have value to you. Odd - perhaps your definition of "contribution" is different.

I'm a firm believer in the adversarial debate method. It works with the English judicial system, as adopted by most of its colonies. It works in science (peer review). I think the results speak for themselves.

(in reply to Malevolence)

Post #: 26

RE: Legends - Invasion and Ground Combat - 11/20/2011 10:33:19 PM

Nedrear

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Kayoz he did not mean he did not contribute in general, he declared he did not contribute to THIS thread. Which, being fair, he did not. And saying "should have patched it to fix instead of addon" is also wrong. Erik stated, that the changes which are part of the ROTS version will be patched too, therefore repairing some issues like that. He got no reason to complain here. Erik worked on Patch and AddOn at the same time. Thats it!

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Post #: 27

RE: Legends - Invasion and Ground Combat - 11/20/2011 10:51:55 PM

cookie monster

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Thanks Kayoz. I appreciate the support.

It appears these new posters don't realise I don't have all day to justify my very simple opinion in one thread only.

Here's one bug from ROTS I reported , I placed over 60 troops on a 30 plus defended colony, the display then defaulted to a one vs one display with zero feedback ability.

I did consider starting a new game of ROTS however I reeled off about 5 game breaking bugs which would have made the game pointless.

So in essence I am very sceptical about Legends, as has been pointed out by other posters in other threads.

A troll is repetative, you must have a reputation, and no noob can call me that after all of the effort I have put in.

I used to post as regularly as Data at one point.

To be honest, I am disenchanted with ROTS, sceptical about Legends.

I will buy Legends, but I bet it is just as quirky as ROTS.

..........

Let's not forget guys I gave a very simple 3 line opinion. Once.

I don't have to explain anything.

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Post #: 28

RE: Legends - Invasion and Ground Combat - 11/20/2011 11:15:41 PM

Erik Rutins

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Guys, please keep it civil, this thread should not become about posting habits or content. I think anyone who has been here a while knows that this is not the kind of forum where criticism is not accepted or locked down. However, we appreciate constructive criticism a lot more than the other kind.

Cookie Monster, despite your experiences, Return of the Shakturi is not broken. I respect that you have been waiting a long time for the third update and I'm sorry it has taken this long, but for the vast majority of players the game is in good shape. The upcoming update for ROTS, as soon as we have time after the release of Legends, will include fixes for all oustanding issues for ROTS as well as fixes for any other bugs we found during the development of Legends. We will take care of our ROTS customers, whether you purchase Legends or not.

Regards,

- Erik

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC

For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

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Post #: 29

RE: Legends - Invasion and Ground Combat - 11/20/2011 11:16:56 PM

Kayoz

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nedrear

Kayoz he did not mean he did not contribute in general, he declared he did not contribute to THIS thread.

Did you read Malevolence's post?

Examine his post more carefully -
"then come to a thread about improvements pointing out the OP's post" (emphasis mine)
1. "a" thread. Not "this" thread - he's referring to CM's behaviour in general
2. He's referring to himself in the 3rd person

Seems pretty clear that his response is in reference to CM's posts in general, and not as you suggest, to this specific thread.

I believe that basic grammar supports my position - general statement - much more strongly than yours.

(in reply to Nedrear)

Post #: 30