Slitherine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Miller

Looks like he lost around 40-50% of his total KB a/c that turn.

The real achillies heel for the IJN is trying to train up fighter pilots, there are simply not enough training sqds to support the kind of losses he has been taking. However saying that, the Zero is so inferior to everything at this stage of the game that it is perhaps not worth the effort.......

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

quote:

ORIGINAL: CT Grognard

That was brutal.

Makes a JFB like me feeling very queasy.

The supply cost merely for replacing those losses to the front-end units is almost 8000 supplies, never mind the industry cost of producing those 578 replacements!

The HI cost of replacing over 500 pilots for the Japanese player is also immense!

I don't think Rader can recover from this.

If you scroll back you'll see that Rader has recovered from more than 20 battles of these proportions in the last 2 years... and he seems to be never out of planes... the only think i can notice is that his sweeps, despite the numbers (some sweeps came in with 150 planes togheder!!), have been really less effective than what they were few months back...which may demonstrate a decreasing quality of his pilots...
The KB is showing the same problems... his bomber groups, even when they get through, aren't able to place many ordinances even on slow and harmless xAKs... which may mean that his pilots are really in the low 60s for what concerns NavT skills...

My mutual covering multi base system has worked wonders in the solomons in this circumnstance... sweeps weren't able to displace my CAP and my pilot losses have been so low that some airgroups didn't suffer a single WIA or KIA (my 2 Spit VIII groups, for example, haven't lost a single plane in these 2 days battle!!!!)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

quote:

ORIGINAL: CT Grognard

That was brutal.

Makes a JFB like me feeling very queasy.

The supply cost merely for replacing those losses to the front-end units is almost 8000 supplies, never mind the industry cost of producing those 578 replacements!

The HI cost of replacing over 500 pilots for the Japanese player is also immense!

I don't think Rader can recover from this.

If you scroll back you'll see that Rader has recovered from more than 20 battles of these proportions in the last 2 years... and he seems to be never out of planes... the only think i can notice is that his sweeps, despite the numbers (some sweeps came in with 150 planes togheder!!), have been really less effective than what they were few months back...which may demonstrate a decreasing quality of his pilots...
The KB is showing the same problems... his bomber groups, even when they get through, aren't able to place many ordinances even on slow and harmless xAKs... which may mean that his pilots are really in the low 60s for what concerns NavT skills...

My mutual covering multi base system has worked wonders in the solomons in this circumnstance... sweeps weren't able to displace my CAP and my pilot losses have been so low that some airgroups didn't suffer a single WIA or KIA (my 2 Spit VIII groups, for example, haven't lost a single plane in these 2 days battle!!!!)

There is one small difference GreyJoy, and I invite the experts in this group to comment ... but you are taking the industrial might of India away from the IJ player. Now Rader is having to support his operational losses with less industrial base. More in line with what readers expect. He might have recovered 20 times with his previous industrial base, but now his focus on the immediate operations will impact his future strategy. Given the differences in the situation I described above -- this might in fact be the equivalent of the "Marianas Shootout"

It will be interesting how this unfolds but I can sense that a point will be reached where the IJ simply fades away if that point has not been alreaady reached. However, The "Taming the Bear" thread has similar aspects in my opinion in that Rader remains very agressive until suddenly the Russian's breakout. Then his spirit was broken .... I sense readers are encouraging you to do something like this ...some sort of bold move that breaks Rader's spirit ..

quote:

ORIGINAL: Miller

Looks like he lost around 40-50% of his total KB a/c that turn.

The real achillies heel for the IJN is trying to train up fighter pilots, there are simply not enough training sqds to support the kind of losses he has been taking. However saying that, the Zero is so inferior to everything at this stage of the game that it is perhaps not worth the effort.......

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

quote:

ORIGINAL: CT Grognard

That was brutal.

Makes a JFB like me feeling very queasy.

The supply cost merely for replacing those losses to the front-end units is almost 8000 supplies, never mind the industry cost of producing those 578 replacements!

The HI cost of replacing over 500 pilots for the Japanese player is also immense!

I don't think Rader can recover from this.

If you scroll back you'll see that Rader has recovered from more than 20 battles of these proportions in the last 2 years... and he seems to be never out of planes... the only think i can notice is that his sweeps, despite the numbers (some sweeps came in with 150 planes togheder!!), have been really less effective than what they were few months back...which may demonstrate a decreasing quality of his pilots...
The KB is showing the same problems... his bomber groups, even when they get through, aren't able to place many ordinances even on slow and harmless xAKs... which may mean that his pilots are really in the low 60s for what concerns NavT skills...

My mutual covering multi base system has worked wonders in the solomons in this circumnstance... sweeps weren't able to displace my CAP and my pilot losses have been so low that some airgroups didn't suffer a single WIA or KIA (my 2 Spit VIII groups, for example, haven't lost a single plane in these 2 days battle!!!!)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CT Grognard

That was brutal.

Makes a JFB like me feeling very queasy.

The supply cost merely for replacing those losses to the front-end units is almost 8000 supplies, never mind the industry cost of producing those 578 replacements!

The HI cost of replacing over 500 pilots for the Japanese player is also immense!

I don't think Rader can recover from this.

quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

quote:

ORIGINAL: CT Grognard

That was brutal.

Makes a JFB like me feeling very queasy.

The supply cost merely for replacing those losses to the front-end units is almost 8000 supplies, never mind the industry cost of producing those 578 replacements!

The HI cost of replacing over 500 pilots for the Japanese player is also immense!

I don't think Rader can recover from this.

If you scroll back you'll see that Rader has recovered from more than 20 battles of these proportions in the last 2 years... and he seems to be never out of planes... the only think i can notice is that his sweeps, despite the numbers (some sweeps came in with 150 planes togheder!!), have been really less effective than what they were few months back...which may demonstrate a decreasing quality of his pilots...
The KB is showing the same problems... his bomber groups, even when they get through, aren't able to place many ordinances even on slow and harmless xAKs... which may mean that his pilots are really in the low 60s for what concerns NavT skills...

My mutual covering multi base system has worked wonders in the solomons in this circumnstance... sweeps weren't able to displace my CAP and my pilot losses have been so low that some airgroups didn't suffer a single WIA or KIA (my 2 Spit VIII groups, for example, haven't lost a single plane in these 2 days battle!!!!)

GJ, take out your calculator and do the math. Adding up the numbers I got 450 George fighters total and did not even bother to count the zeros which had to number well over 1,000. Then count the tonys, franks, tojos, etc. There are just too many of them flying to make any sense other than LRCAP.

This pretty much backs up my theory. He is placing the bulk of his fighters on Long Range CAP over the target hex while sweeping and escorting with a few. There is no other way he can get this kind of totals over your bases. The Japanese player just does not have the aviation support or bases to support this number of fighter. He would be grossly overstacked and suffer all sorts of coordination penalties. Rader is not a "sweep genius", he is just using this simple but efective tactic. This is the beauty of Long Range CAP over the target. It is constantly there as support for multiple battles. He is using a lot of fighters for sure but multiplying their effectivness by using Long range CAP over the target.

Of course, he is taking a butt whipping but that is another issue.

quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

GJ,

One other thing might just help you. If you can spare a good sized carrier raid on an outlying oil point, you will do two things. You will cause some serious damage and force Rader to remove a good bulk of his fighters and aviation support from the front lines to protect these points-thus dispersing his airforce. I can almost promise you that Soerajaba, Palambang, Medan are all weakly defended and vulnerable to a big raid.

Even if you never do another raid, he will never be able to ignore these bases as, without oil he can't sustain his economy and his biggest oil bases are the most exposed. I found that unless KB is around it is almost impossible for the Japanese player to defend these bases with LBA. A ten carrier Allied TF can just pound away with little to fear. Go in quick, pound an oil point or two to dust and he will never be able to mass his airforce at one or two points. Rader's game depends on his economy and he can't ingnore the defense of his oil points. It is very possible that if you use enough carriers and catch him unprepared, that you can take out most all of his exterior DEI oil points in one massive series of raids.

I know you are wary of LBA but I am finding that massed Allied carriers are pretty invulnerable to all but the biggest LBA attacks. Until the kamakazes come on line anyways..

quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

GJ,

One other thing might just help you. If you can spare a good sized carrier raid on an outlying oil point, you will do two things. You will cause some serious damage and force Rader to remove a good bulk of his fighters and aviation support from the front lines to protect these points-thus dispersing his airforce. I can almost promise you that Soerajaba, Palambang, Medan are all weakly defended and vulnerable to a big raid.

Even if you never do another raid, he will never be able to ignore these bases as, without oil he can't sustain his economy and his biggest oil bases are the most exposed. I found that unless KB is around it is almost impossible for the Japanese player to defend these bases with LBA. A ten carrier Allied TF can just pound away with little to fear. Go in quick, pound an oil point or two to dust and he will never be able to mass his airforce at one or two points. Rader's game depends on his economy and he can't ingnore the defense of his oil points. It is very possible that if you use enough carriers and catch him unprepared, that you can take out most all of his exterior DEI oil points in one massive series of raids.

I know you are wary of LBA but I am finding that massed Allied carriers are pretty invulnerable to all but the biggest LBA attacks. Until the kamakazes come on line anyways..

quote:

ORIGINAL: USS America

ETA: Oops, I'm not a geeky JFB, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

GJ,

One other thing might just help you. If you can spare a good sized carrier raid on an outlying oil point, you will do two things. You will cause some serious damage and force Rader to remove a good bulk of his fighters and aviation support from the front lines to protect these points-thus dispersing his airforce. I can almost promise you that Soerajaba, Palambang, Medan are all weakly defended and vulnerable to a big raid.

Even if you never do another raid, he will never be able to ignore these bases as, without oil he can't sustain his economy and his biggest oil bases are the most exposed. I found that unless KB is around it is almost impossible for the Japanese player to defend these bases with LBA. A ten carrier Allied TF can just pound away with little to fear. Go in quick, pound an oil point or two to dust and he will never be able to mass his airforce at one or two points. Rader's game depends on his economy and he can't ingnore the defense of his oil points. It is very possible that if you use enough carriers and catch him unprepared, that you can take out most all of his exterior DEI oil points in one massive series of raids.

I know you are wary of LBA but I am finding that massed Allied carriers are pretty invulnerable to all but the biggest LBA attacks. Until the kamakazes come on line anyways..

Yup, you're right. Soon we'll redeploy our CVs in western Oz...and from there we'll be able to raid at least Sosarbaja in a touch and go kind of raid... I see that these are the kind of things i must start to do...now i only need to speed up the process of the advance over Darwin area and then our CVs will be free to roam...i just need them to re-open that theatre...then my LBA can pretty much do the trick there and leave the CVs to move freely

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Morning Air attack on Tulagi , at 114,137

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 200 NM, estimated altitude 37,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 60 minutes

Japanese aircraft
     A6M3a Zero x 39
     A6M5 Zero x 24
     N1K1-J George x 134



Allied aircraft
     P-38G Lightning x 25
     P-38H Lightning x 1
     P-38J Lightning x 25
     P-40K Warhawk x 5
     P-40N5 Warhawk x 7
     F6F-3 Hellcat x 110


Japanese aircraft losses
     N1K1-J George: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
     P-40N5 Warhawk: 1 destroyed
     F6F-3 Hellcat: 1 destroyed



Aircraft Attacking:
     39 x A6M3a Zero sweeping at 31000 feet
     35 x N1K1-J George sweeping at 31000 feet
     37 x N1K1-J George sweeping at 31000 feet
     38 x N1K1-J George sweeping at 31000 feet
     23 x A6M5 Zero sweeping at 31000 feet
     20 x N1K1-J George sweeping at 31000 feet

The way i see it, all those planes were sweeping, not just LRCAPPING...and there no way he can have those numbers on LRCAP from Shortland, Torokina and Buka over Tulagi....consider the distance!... and if you look carefully you'll see that the composition in the single sweep missions, varies a lot! which should, imho, mean that there wasn't a constant presence of LRCAP seldom supported by sweep fighters...

What do you think?

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

GJ,

One other thing might just help you. If you can spare a good sized carrier raid on an outlying oil point, you will do two things. You will cause some serious damage and force Rader to remove a good bulk of his fighters and aviation support from the front lines to protect these points-thus dispersing his airforce. I can almost promise you that Soerajaba, Palambang, Medan are all weakly defended and vulnerable to a big raid.

Even if you never do another raid, he will never be able to ignore these bases as, without oil he can't sustain his economy and his biggest oil bases are the most exposed. I found that unless KB is around it is almost impossible for the Japanese player to defend these bases with LBA. A ten carrier Allied TF can just pound away with little to fear. Go in quick, pound an oil point or two to dust and he will never be able to mass his airforce at one or two points. Rader's game depends on his economy and he can't ingnore the defense of his oil points. It is very possible that if you use enough carriers and catch him unprepared, that you can take out most all of his exterior DEI oil points in one massive series of raids.

I know you are wary of LBA but I am finding that massed Allied carriers are pretty invulnerable to all but the biggest LBA attacks. Until the kamakazes come on line anyways..

Why? If he already has all the HI he will ever need, shouldn't he already have enough oil and fuel also? Need some geeky JFBs to comment!

quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Morning Air attack on Tulagi , at 114,137

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 200 NM, estimated altitude 37,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 60 minutes

Japanese aircraft
     A6M3a Zero x 39
     A6M5 Zero x 24
     N1K1-J George x 134



Allied aircraft
     P-38G Lightning x 25
     P-38H Lightning x 1
     P-38J Lightning x 25
     P-40K Warhawk x 5
     P-40N5 Warhawk x 7
     F6F-3 Hellcat x 110


Japanese aircraft losses
     N1K1-J George: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
     P-40N5 Warhawk: 1 destroyed
     F6F-3 Hellcat: 1 destroyed



Aircraft Attacking:
     39 x A6M3a Zero sweeping at 31000 feet
     35 x N1K1-J George sweeping at 31000 feet
     37 x N1K1-J George sweeping at 31000 feet
     38 x N1K1-J George sweeping at 31000 feet
     23 x A6M5 Zero sweeping at 31000 feet
     20 x N1K1-J George sweeping at 31000 feet

The way i see it, all those planes were sweeping, not just LRCAPPING...and there no way he can have those numbers on LRCAP from Shortland, Torokina and Buka over Tulagi....consider the distance!... and if you look carefully you'll see that the composition in the single sweep missions, varies a lot! which should, imho, mean that there wasn't a constant presence of LRCAP seldom supported by sweep fighters...

What do you think?

I think you are right. I just went back over my old combat reports and when one unit sweeps and the rest are on LRCAP only the one sweeping unit shows up as sweeping in the combat report.

Now I am even more perplexed as I just can't figure out how he can coordinate his sweeps so well-something I have never been able to accomplish. He is no longer flying crack units but perhaps still has excellent leaders.

The real limiting factor for the Japanese is not air frames, but aviation support. He must have the bulk of his aviation support in the theater which means he must be very short in other places. Another reason for some oil raids.

quote:

I don't think an AFB can ever go wrong hitting Japanese oil centers.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Miller

Just a couple of questions for you GJ, Did rader take Chungking? If so was he able to bomb it out of supply?

The reason I ask is I am looking to attack there soon in my game but I'm not sure if it can be taken........

quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

quote:

ORIGINAL: Miller

Just a couple of questions for you GJ, Did rader take Chungking? If so was he able to bomb it out of supply?

The reason I ask is I am looking to attack there soon in my game but I'm not sure if it can be taken........

It can be taken, even if you have a HR against bombing LI. Depends on the Chinese units there but the more units the more stretched the supply gets-so really I suppose it depends on the Japanese units there. Viperpol took it from me. He just kept pounding away at my airbase with his plentiful bombers. It not only used up my supply but eventually eroded the Chinese morale. He took a few lumps but eventually my troops cracked and surrendered en mass. It took a few months but the city does not generate enough supply to last. You just have to bomb every day for a good while without letup.