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recruiting agents - 11/26/2011 12:35:20 PM   
w1p

 

Posts: 135
Joined: 11/23/2011
Status: offline 		Are normal spy's out the window and intelligence agents only way to do stuff espionagey? or am I being a bit of a spanner and not looking at it properly...
Post #: 1
RE: recruiting agents - 11/26/2011 12:36:31 PM   
ASHBERY76


Posts: 2136
Joined: 10/10/2001
From: England
Status: offline 		Spy's are a character now and not a purchase.

_____________________________


(in reply to w1p)
Post #: 2
RE: recruiting agents - 11/26/2011 1:02:02 PM   
w1p

 

Posts: 135
Joined: 11/23/2011
Status: offline 		Thanks

(in reply to ASHBERY76)
Post #: 3
RE: recruiting agents - 11/26/2011 1:02:53 PM   
Gelatinous Cube


Posts: 696
Joined: 10/26/2011
Status: offline 		It also doesn't seem nearly as easy to get a super spy as it was before. You really have to ease these guys into the more dangerous missions, and losing one is now a much bigger deal.

(in reply to w1p)
Post #: 4
RE: recruiting agents - 11/26/2011 1:07:07 PM   
w1p

 

Posts: 135
Joined: 11/23/2011
Status: offline 		Recent game is with the ackdarians, and I keep losing my first spy on 89% missions for sabotaging missions which don't give much of an improvement. Any tips on what to do to help generate another spy?

I know if I want more colony governers, colonize more systems + independants. I know if I want more fleet admirals, destroy more pirate bases / enemy spaceports. I'm assuming if I want more spy's, conduct more espionage? but if I lose my first spy....

Any idea's?

(in reply to Gelatinous Cube)
Post #: 5
RE: recruiting agents - 11/26/2011 2:12:07 PM   
Gelatinous Cube


Posts: 696
Joined: 10/26/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: w1p

Recent game is with the ackdarians, and I keep losing my first spy on 89% missions for sabotaging missions which don't give much of an improvement. Any tips on what to do to help generate another spy?

I know if I want more colony governers, colonize more systems + independants. I know if I want more fleet admirals, destroy more pirate bases / enemy spaceports. I'm assuming if I want more spy's, conduct more espionage? but if I lose my first spy....

Any idea's?


I'm not sure.. the type of race certainly affects it, and Ackdarians are generally non-confrontational, which may be part of it. I'm playing an Ackdarian game today, and I'm at year 2570 and still have only my first Spy.

89% still means you have an 11% chance of losing your dude. I try to only send them on missions where the chance of success is 90% or higher, and still have to deal with the occasional spy attrition. Would be nice to know what exactly you can do to increase your chances of getting more Spies, though!

(in reply to w1p)
Post #: 6
RE: recruiting agents - 11/26/2011 2:23:16 PM   
Howard Mitchell


Posts: 449
Joined: 6/3/2002
From: Blighty
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: w1p

...I keep losing my first spy on 89% missions for sabotaging missions ...



If the target has their own agents on counter-intelligence then the real figure will be lower as well, but you won't get to see how much by, IIRC.

_____________________________

While the battles the British fight may differ in the widest possible ways, they invariably have two common characteristics – they are always fought uphill and always at the junction of two or more map sheets.

General Sir William Slim

(in reply to w1p)
Post #: 7
RE: recruiting agents - 11/26/2011 3:19:11 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline 		You have to risk them on the easiest mission possible to find out their abilities. Once you see what they are best at, then use them in those areas to maximize their security. Try to use them against factions that are less likely to have strong counter-intelligence. The percentage you see can be modified heavily if the other side has very good counter-intelligence.

Regards,

- Erik

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC



For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

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(in reply to Howard Mitchell)
Post #: 8
RE: recruiting agents - 11/26/2011 6:20:34 PM   
Litjan

 

Posts: 221
Joined: 3/27/2010
From: Butzbach, Germany
Status: offline 		So the percentage indicated is not the real percentage? That really makes the spy-missions like guesswork, doesn´t it? I think the interface should at least give me a hint at the real risk - after all my espionage department should have a good idea about the target faction´s spying modifiers (if I can find them out from the galactopedia, they should be able, too, right?).

Jan


(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 9
RE: recruiting agents - 11/26/2011 7:22:52 PM   
Canute0

 

Posts: 616
Joined: 4/30/2010
From: Germany
Status: offline 		Erik,
how are the chances to get a new Intel Agent at the game ?
My first Legend game is nearly at the end, and i didn't got any other Intel Agent so far.
Many Science,Fleet and Planet Govs but never an Intel agent appear.


(in reply to Litjan)
Post #: 10
RE: recruiting agents - 11/26/2011 7:31:23 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline 		Hm, could you upload a save for us please Canute? It should be fairly easy to generate a new Agent if you have none, but this does also vary somewhat based on the faction and events.

Regards,

- Erik

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC



For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to Canute0)
Post #: 11
RE: recruiting agents - 11/26/2011 7:55:00 PM   
Canute0

 

Posts: 616
Joined: 4/30/2010
From: Germany
Status: offline 		upload: Jaimos Empire 2761-12-15.dwg

I lost my Intel agent pretty early in the game, but never got another.



(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 12
RE: recruiting agents - 11/26/2011 8:09:41 PM   
ASHBERY76


Posts: 2136
Joined: 10/10/2001
From: England
Status: offline 		I must say that I am losing a lot of agents with Human spy's with 80+ probability on missions.

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(in reply to Canute0)
Post #: 13
RE: recruiting agents - 11/26/2011 11:17:35 PM   
Fideach

 

Posts: 175
Joined: 3/30/2010
Status: offline 		I've only had one intelligence agent since I lost the first one on a mission at the beginning of the game. I'm playing as humans. While I don't want to be able to directly recruit agents or other characters.. as the current system keeps me from abusing them and stealing every tech in the world.. Is there not any way to influence your chance of recruiting an agent?
Perhaps add buildings you can research and build, recruitment offices and such that increase the chance of new agents appearing.
Lol, could even make the Mechonoids have a character office we could bid on and recruit extra characters from, in competition with the rest of the galaxy.

(in reply to ASHBERY76)
Post #: 14
RE: recruiting agents - 11/27/2011 11:25:09 AM   
Canute0

 

Posts: 616
Joined: 4/30/2010
From: Germany
Status: offline 		New game, new agents.
I was careful with my Intel agent this time, and just let him Sabotage with best Chances.

I got +50 sabotage now, and can do Sabotages with 92-94% chances on 1 month now.
1. Beside it is very annoying to assign him any month at a new task, we NEED a Autorepeat funktion for this !!
2. the agent didn't learn any new ability or traits, ok that my be unlucky
3. no other agent was found so far.


(in reply to Fideach)
Post #: 15
RE: recruiting agents - 11/27/2011 11:33:01 AM   
w1p

 

Posts: 135
Joined: 11/23/2011
Status: offline 		It makes sense that the figure you see isn't affected by enemy agents doing counter intelligence, sending a spy against humans early game is always a bit risky due to their bonus'. I just don't get what to do to prompt the game to give me more. If I wanted to play a serious spy-orientated game, what do I need to do to get more spy's to generate? I assume there's triggers on certain actions to generate spy character's, can you tell me what they are??

(in reply to Canute0)
Post #: 16
RE: recruiting agents - 11/27/2011 1:06:40 PM   
Bingeling

 

Posts: 5186
Joined: 8/12/2010
Status: offline 		If you want to play a spying game, pick a spying race. Ketarov should be good, I figure.

It is probably a bit backwards now, I did not watch my spies closely, but let the AI take control at the end of the game. It had a spy with only skill 30% concealment, which appears to be only about deep cover. So this is basically an agent that only should try deep cover missions? It is a bit different.

(in reply to w1p)
Post #: 17
RE: recruiting agents - 11/27/2011 3:30:50 PM   
MasterChief


Posts: 159
Joined: 2/9/2004
From: The Hundred Fathom Curve
Status: offline 		This should probably go to the wish list, but it fits so well with this discussion.

Character spies are an awesome game addition but I think the original spy system could have been kept as well.

You would purchase a spy network (the same thing as a spy in RotS). These networks could be assigned similarly and with the same missions as the spies in RotS.

When you eventually spawn a super spy (character) you could assign them to lead a spy network. This would make the character spies similar to generals and admirals.


< Message edited by MasterChief -- 11/27/2011 3:31:18 PM >

(in reply to Bingeling)
Post #: 18
RE: recruiting agents - 11/30/2011 8:01:54 PM   
Howard Mitchell


Posts: 449
Joined: 6/3/2002
From: Blighty
Status: offline 		I'm having oddities with this as well. Currently under 1.7.0.1 for a game started under 1.7.

Playing as the Securans, I currently have:

1 Ambassador. Never seen another though they should occur at +40%

0 Agents. Well ok I dissmised the first one as he had only negative skills (I know, but my first game of Legends) and another turned up quickly, was captured and I've not seen another since. Agents are +30% for the Securans.

5 Colony govenors, 6 Admirals (at -40%) and 2 Generals (at -40% also).

Plus a leader of course and 2 scientists.

It's now 2785, so this is after 31 game years.

Am I just getting bad rolls? Is this common?

_____________________________

While the battles the British fight may differ in the widest possible ways, they invariably have two common characteristics – they are always fought uphill and always at the junction of two or more map sheets.

General Sir William Slim

(in reply to MasterChief)
Post #: 19
RE: recruiting agents - 11/30/2011 8:28:50 PM   
Merker

 

Posts: 208
Joined: 7/3/2010
Status: offline 		The spy recruiting should be like in Imperium Galactica 2, where occasionally a spy character shows up on your doorstep and asks for a price after showing some skills. You can say yes or no. Or just make it the same way you do with admirals and generals, using the old spy system with a X% chance of getting a spy based on race modifiers. I used to love spying in DW, it got fun especially with a bunch of level 400 agents causing rebellions everywhere...


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[image][URL=http://www.nodiatis.com/personality.htm][/URL][/image]

(in reply to Howard Mitchell)
Post #: 20
RE: recruiting agents - 12/1/2011 3:06:10 AM   
Tampa_Gamer


Posts: 160
Joined: 12/27/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterChief

This should probably go to the wish list, but it fits so well with this discussion.

Character spies are an awesome game addition but I think the original spy system could have been kept as well.

You would purchase a spy network (the same thing as a spy in RotS). These networks could be assigned similarly and with the same missions as the spies in RotS.

When you eventually spawn a super spy (character) you could assign them to lead a spy network. This would make the character spies similar to generals and admirals.



+1

(in reply to MasterChief)
Post #: 21
RE: recruiting agents - 12/1/2011 5:05:37 AM   
Canute0

 

Posts: 616
Joined: 4/30/2010
From: Germany
Status: offline 		I am playing currently Haakonish and they got
+1 Intel Char
+20% intel char recruitment.

But i still don't got any new Intel chars.
Even with the best possible chances i allready lost the 2 agents i got from start.
I think the chances for new Intel Agents should be increase much, special when you dont got any left.


(in reply to Tampa_Gamer)
Post #: 22
RE: recruiting agents - 12/1/2011 9:10:51 AM   
Gray Death


Posts: 59
Joined: 5/4/2007
From: Germany
Status: offline 		I feel that the new spy system is a step backward. At RotS spying was real fun, but with Legends it is nearly pointless and irritating. Merkers idea sounds like the best combination of the two systems.

(in reply to Canute0)
Post #: 23
RE: recruiting agents - 12/1/2011 9:13:03 AM   
MartialDoctor


Posts: 388
Joined: 3/7/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterChief

This should probably go to the wish list, but it fits so well with this discussion.

Character spies are an awesome game addition but I think the original spy system could have been kept as well.

You would purchase a spy network (the same thing as a spy in RotS). These networks could be assigned similarly and with the same missions as the spies in RotS.

When you eventually spawn a super spy (character) you could assign them to lead a spy network. This would make the character spies similar to generals and admirals.




Good idea!

Although I found that it was too easy to get spies up to high levels previously. That may have been because the enemy didn't use counter spies enough because I caught enemy spies all the time yet didn't have mine caught very often.

< Message edited by MartialDoctor -- 12/1/2011 9:14:35 AM >

(in reply to MasterChief)
Post #: 24
RE: recruiting agents - 12/1/2011 9:34:06 AM   
sbach2o

 

Posts: 378
Joined: 3/26/2010
Status: offline 		I think the current system is sort of okay, just for being in keeping with the rest of the character system. But regarding spying it could use some tweaks to hasten the appearance of new agents.

One option I could think of would be to spend money directly, either to purchase a new agent or get a heightend chance of one appearing after a time. Maybe spies acquired through this route should usually be far less powerful than the random chance, 'elite' persons.

A far more interesting possibility could be in the use of an existing spy. Create a new mission, 'recruit agents', 'build network' or whatever'd be a good name for that activity. When successful, a new agent should appear. Chances of success could be determined by length of the mission (the usual month, quarter year or whole year), skill of the recruiting agent, number of agents you already have and race traits (with Ketarov, etc having an advantage).

The risk of the mission would be very low to non-exitent, at least for the recruiting agent. But you could run a risk of getting a double-agent into your service. Just keep in mind that the recruiter isn't available for counter intelligence, so there is a trade-off as there should be with every agent activity.

(in reply to MartialDoctor)
Post #: 25
RE: recruiting agents - 12/1/2011 9:43:55 AM   
HectorOfTroy


Posts: 312
Joined: 1/9/2011
Status: offline 		It would be cool if we could also have a specific branch of the research tree dedicated to spies. That way spies would come with certain characteristics which we could tweak by researching certain technologies (eg. psychology studies that improve their counter-intelligence techniques; genetic modifications so when human spy goes to Dhayut empire the spy looks like Dhayut or one of the allied races of Dhayut, etc).

Probably something for another expnsion or DW2.

(in reply to sbach2o)
Post #: 26
RE: recruiting agents - 12/1/2011 1:38:55 PM   
Bingeling

 

Posts: 5186
Joined: 8/12/2010
Status: offline 		I miss the old spying days, and I am glad it is gone. Previously it was all about training them, steal some tech, and get your deep cover agents. The game is more interesting when it is not that easy to get full info on the movements of your enemy.

At the same time, for me the spying game is quite absent now, and the AI advisor is not eager to suggest missions unless at war either.

(in reply to HectorOfTroy)
Post #: 27
RE: recruiting agents - 12/1/2011 2:24:38 PM   
MartialDoctor


Posts: 388
Joined: 3/7/2011
Status: offline 		Another idea I had had regarding this was the idea of "building" a spy network.  You'd have to establish one first (possibly even having a tech first before you could establish one) and it would cost maintenance to upkeep.  In return, you'd have a higher chance of having spies appear and join your empire.

In this way, it wouldn't be as easy as it was before and you couldn't replace them instantly.  They'd be valuable but you could get more of them than currently.

The same idea could be added for other areas (such as military generals).

(in reply to Bingeling)
Post #: 28
RE: recruiting agents - 12/2/2011 12:51:25 AM   
Keston


Posts: 300
Joined: 5/7/2010
Status: offline 		Scanners and contact provide some information on other powers, and there is some counter-intelligence, or at least some general security risk to attempted penetrations, going on in the background even without an agent assigned to it. But in the game only the spy characters can take direct action, meaning that they represent the rare individuals with extraordinary abilities that are more numerous in fiction than reality but also routine espionage and direct action activities that go on at an industrial scale in today's world - something represented in some games by spy points or something abstract. I like the characters, but with only one, even two, the spymaster has very little to do. Maybe more agents would unsettle the balance of the game, but it would seem to provide a better experience.

Which leads to the big question of how much having an agent character doing counter-intelligence affects the normal risks and opportunities faced by opposing spies? Other than being a tech leader worried about massive industrial espionage, does it make sense to prioritize counter-intelligence for the sole agent available or is it foolish not to have the agent(s) out there at work developing skills?

(in reply to MartialDoctor)
Post #: 29
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