RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A)

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> After Action Reports >> RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A)

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/25/2011 8:54:51 PM

Chickenboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: USS America

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

No big deal, Mike. I just chalk it up to Allied misinformation.

Was I that transparent?

Hiss! Dirty, tricksy Allied players!

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/26/2011 1:19:03 AM

jrcar

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Mike, been thinking about this some more.

In the first stage of the game you need to optimise the Japanese shippng to support the conquest.

Convert the 6k xAKL to PB.

Then what ever is left over start shipping what you can, when you can. You don't have to ship anything resource/oil/fuel wise during the first 3 months, but if you can get your northern convoy system up and operating efficiently that is a bonus. Build the key ports.

There is no need to risk the TK until you have cleared the enemy out and established ASW overwatch. Convert whatever ships to TK that you can. Better to have some fuel go to waste than loose a TK early.

I'll add a little more detail about our ships in convoy, however availability depends on your losses druing the first phase :)

We maintain multidivisional lift as our priority, and the most appropriate ships go to that first (as without operational success logistics success is moot).

The 6k 14kt PB are very useful for the Japan-Sinapore route. We also use the E, DMS and some DD (in part as our losses of DD have been light, the enemies heavy, so we can afford to).

Cheers

Rob

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/26/2011 2:18:30 AM

Mike Solli

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jrcar

Mike, been thinking about this some more.

In the first stage of the game you need to optimise the Japanese shippng to support the conquest.

Convert the 6k xAKL to PB.

Then what ever is left over start shipping what you can, when you can. You don't have to ship anything resource/oil/fuel wise during the first 3 months, but if you can get your northern convoy system up and operating efficiently that is a bonus. Build the key ports.

There is no need to risk the TK until you have cleared the enemy out and established ASW overwatch. Convert whatever ships to TK that you can. Better to have some fuel go to waste than loose a TK early.

I'll add a little more detail about our ships in convoy, however availability depends on your losses druing the first phase :)

We maintain multidivisional lift as our priority, and the most appropriate ships go to that first (as without operational success logistics success is moot).

The 6k 14kt PB are very useful for the Japan-Sinapore route. We also use the E, DMS and some DD (in part as our losses of DD have been light, the enemies heavy, so we can afford to).

Cheers

Rob

Hi Rob,

Thanks for the insight. Those 6k xAKLs are the Ansyu-Cs. I am planning on converting all of them to PBs. That'll give me 106 of them before losses.

I'll get the northern convoys formed and started immediately. Resources are the critical commodity initially. Those convoys will take care of ~90% of the shortage.

I agree with you about not risking TKs early. I convert all Std- classes to TKs as they arrive.

I'm curious to see your convoy details and compare them with my thoughts based on the experiences of my first game. I'm also very interested in which classes you use for your multidivisional lift capability.

I reserve all of the xAPs for troop movement from Japan/Manchuoko to the hub closest to their destination. I don't use xAPs for invasions. The initial 51 can lift 123k troops + the additional troops that can be hauled in the cargo holds. I am planning on converting the 7x Yusen-A and 19x Husimi to AK, in addition to the 10x Yusen-S. I figure that will be sufficient for any major invasions that may happen from mid-1942 on, if there are any. I still haven't decided whether or not to convert any of the AKs to the -t conversion.

< Message edited by Mike Solli -- 11/26/2011 2:25:55 AM >

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/26/2011 3:34:11 PM

Mike Solli

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Ok, a few details about air power. Mainly, I'll give a few details about how I'm going to modify units (upgrade, downgrade or add aircraft).

Here's the priority of support to the frontline IJAAF:

3 Air Division
5 Air Division
Southern Area
China Expeditionary Force

No surprises there really. Anyone not listed is used for training pilots primarily.

This is all assuming the specific units are at a location where they can accept reinforcement/upgrade aircraft. If not, it'll happen eventually.

Here's the chart with where the pool planes are going. Most are filling out units but some are upgrading units. The end pool is what's left and the "From Upgrades" column is planes from upgrades that are working their way back to the pool.

Attachment (1)

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/26/2011 4:43:13 PM

Mike Solli

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A few comments are in order. I'm going to increase the output of the Ki-43-Ic factory to 64 and convert two additional factories to 32 each. In about a month I'll be producing 128 a month. That'll allow me to upgrade an estimated 2 sentai and a chutai per month. In total, here's what I need to upgrade to the Ic:

3 AD: 5 sentai & 3 chutai
5 AD: 2 sentai
China: 1 sentai & 2 chutai

I estimate it'll take to about mid to late March to finish the upgrades. I'll probably start with the 3 AD chutai to keep Nates in the pool and then work on sentai. I'll probably upgrade the Oscar Ia & Ib last, but I'm not sure. The Nates will be relegated to training exclusively once the frontline Nates are replaced.

I'm not sure what to do with the Lily. I've heard mixed reviews. I'll keep producing them on the premise that they are better than any of the 1E bombers. The Ki-36 is becoming a trainer and the Ki-51 will be removed from frontline service except for China. It's bomb load sucks. I don't mind the Ki-32 or Ki-30, but they will all slowly disappear eventually, to be used for training in Manchuoko.

The Ki-15, Ki-46-I and Ki-46-II will all be used since they are all fine planes. As they are expended, groups will be upgraded to the Ki-46-II. No surprises here.

My main transport will be the Ki-57-I and eventually the Ki-57-II. I decided on larger capacity vs. the extra hex range. My reason for this is that if I need range, the Tina will do splendidly. The Ki-59 is garbage. There are 36 of them and they will all go to the 4 chutai in Manchuoko for training. That's about all they are good for. The Ki-56 and MC-21 are good aircraft and will be used until depleted.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/26/2011 5:50:56 PM

SuluSea

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Good to see you've started an AAR Mike, I'm looking forward to the discussion .

Not to get you off track....

I like the legs of the Ki-48 early for ASW search one the first crop gets trained up. I've been rethinking my position on what I'm using the Ha-5s for because I'm using the Ki-56 as my main transport trying to benefit from the 12/15 range thought it suffers at 300 less capacity than the Ki-57. I've been using the Ha-5 engines for the Ki-21-Ic to help bolster the two engine bomber force with a little more firepower early until better planes come online transfer the atiquated Ki-21's to ASW... With PPs needing to be paid to upgrade from single engine to two engine planes now that doesn't seem to be a decent an option as it was in the past considering the PPs needed early to free up LCUs.

I think next game I'll use the Ki-57-I to use the Ha-5s and roll it into the KI-57-II with the upgrade.

I like NYGs advice on Mindanao to stop that supply ASAP and cause the surrender of the force at Zamboanga. I like the same tactic to make the force at Manado to surrender by seizing Sidate the turn before as well as making the force at Tarakan retreat into the swamp by taking Tangjoengselor a turn ahead.

< Message edited by SuluSea -- 11/28/2011 1:04:05 AM >

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/26/2011 6:43:35 PM

PaxMondo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

I'm not sure what to do with the Lily. I've heard mixed reviews. I'll keep producing them on the premise that they are better than any of the 1E bombers. The Ki-36 is becoming a trainer and the Ki-51 will be removed from frontline service except for China. It's bomb load sucks. I don't mind the Ki-32 or Ki-30, but they will all slowly disappear eventually, to be used for training in Manchuoko.

My problem with producing the Lily is that I can never convince myself to expend the HI on a lower performance plane that in the end has only trainer utility. Old Sally's are always going to be effective in ASW as they get replaced by the armored Helen's. Lily's in that role are not that effective as 100kg bombs just don't hurt subs much if at all.

It's the "what do I do with the Lily's in the mid-game and end game?" issue that always decides it for me.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/26/2011 7:59:40 PM

Terminus

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Erm, dude? "Breech" is the place on a gun where the bullet goes, "Breach" is the place you go yourself if you want to win a medal. I suspect you're using the former whilst intending to convey the latter thought.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/26/2011 8:26:46 PM

USSAmerica

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T, have you applied for any English teaching positions? You'd be a natural.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/26/2011 8:32:49 PM

ny59giants

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I like the Lily and the Sally for early to mid 42 bombers as I want to build up my pool of 1st generation Helen for ASW only work. They get the MAD device later in the war. Once the 2nd generation Helens come out, I stop the Lily. You have to pay some in supply to get this to happen, but I may have to re-think this as I get later into the war. I like 90 to 120 Helens Ia per month, if feasible. That will give you about 500 to upgrade to and stockpile.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/26/2011 9:54:06 PM

Mike Solli

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Erm, dude? "Breech" is the place on a gun where the bullet goes, "Breach" is the place you go yourself if you want to win a medal. I suspect you're using the former whilst intending to convey the latter thought.

Hell T, I thought about that and thought I was right. Guess I'll change it.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/26/2011 9:55:42 PM

Mike Solli

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Right now Here are my thoughts on the Lily/Sally/Helen thingie:

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/26/2011 10:44:37 PM

jrcar

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Don't go Lily, in our game it was a mistake. I thought they would be useful, they really weren't, even the armoured version. The bomb effect just isn't worth it.

Agree with Helen 1, even though our main bomber by late 42 was the Helen 2 we keep one factory on Helen 1 to provide replacements. By early 43 we are mostly flying Helen II in land attack roles, even in China.

Produce both Sally and Helen until mid 42 to spread the engine joy, but plan to focus on the Helen.

Cheers
Rob

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/26/2011 11:09:53 PM

Mike Solli

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Thanks everyone for your input. I'll figure it out eventually, but I've got another problem. I successfully installed and fired up the beta. It's in window mode, which I expected, but I can't see the whole screen. Any help on fixing that, keeping in mind that I am the farthest from a computer geek that there is.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/26/2011 11:35:14 PM

PaxMondo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

... as I want to build up my pool of 1st generation Helen for ASW only work. They get the MAD device later in the war.

I guess at some point I will have to try these (Helen 1's). The MAD device only adds 5% to detection, which doesn't seem like much to me. But you and several others comment that it seems to make a difference. Guess I need to test to see how much that 5% really makes in the game.

I do know that the Sally's make very effective ASW planes. Get the pilot skills up to 60% and in combination with surface ASW you will kill/drive away all the allied subs in any area that you wish to "cleanse".

Currently I skip the Helen I as I do not like to lose that one hex of range compared to the Sally. I upgrade from Sally to Helen II.

< Message edited by PaxMondo -- 11/26/2011 11:37:19 PM >

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/27/2011 12:27:40 AM

obvert

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Early on I think the Lily production could stay, since it's already a good sized factory. I use them for ASW and switching out as many 1Es as possible quickly. They can hit an airfield fairly well with the four bombs. After amonth I'll turn this off and make more Oscars with that factory. If needed I can bump up the Sallys at that point.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/27/2011 12:50:05 AM

witp1951

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Thanks everyone for your input. I'll figure it out eventually, but I've got another problem. I successfully installed and fired up the beta. It's in window mode, which I expected, but I can't see the whole screen. Any help on fixing that, keeping in mind that I am the farthest from a computer geek that there is.

Open the shortcut properties and enter the resolution desired. The shortcut downloaded with the beta has -w which puts it in windows mode. The Tech forum thread on the beta has some discussion on this. I think the beta readme might have some resolution info in it.

Quick fix is to right click the beta shortcut. Select Properties. Go to the target box and delete "-w". This will get you out of Windows Mode.

< Message edited by witp1951 -- 11/27/2011 1:00:58 AM >

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/27/2011 1:39:43 AM

n01487477

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Thanks everyone for your input. I'll figure it out eventually, but I've got another problem. I successfully installed and fired up the beta. It's in window mode, which I expected, but I can't see the whole screen. Any help on fixing that, keeping in mind that I am the farthest from a computer geek that there is.

Check out this quickly made vid if you are still uncertain.

https://sites.google.com/site/witpextras/Beta.mp4?attredirects=0&d=1

Will put it on my video site too ...

Cheers
[edit] On a side not Mike - did you read my Econ setup doc (new)? If you have time some critique/suggestions would be nice.
Cheers

< Message edited by n01487477 -- 11/27/2011 10:31:52 AM >

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/27/2011 4:38:49 AM

jrcar

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Hey Damian, very nice, I like the efficiency calcuations... makes me rethink some of our decisions (We have both slow and fast large capacity long range ships doing long haul).

I think I need to revist our convoy system some more, it is doing good, but could be better...

Cheers

Rob

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/27/2011 5:28:04 PM

Mac Linehan

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Mike -

An absolute delight to have the Master Back... I have, of course, saved this thread and will follow with great interest.

And now that you have had a warm up game with Ted: No More Mr. Nice Guy - I expect to see the fur fly... <grin>

Cricket Mac

< Message edited by Mac Linehan -- 11/27/2011 5:52:36 PM >

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/27/2011 5:28:20 PM

Xargun

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo
Currently I skip the Helen I as I do not like to lose that one hex of range compared to the Sally. I upgrade from Sally to Helen II.

I do the same. I do not build any Lily - but I use them up as I upgrade them into Sallies. I build Sallies until my production of Helens can support my upgrades and losses. Sallies should make decent Kamaikazes.

Xargun

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/28/2011 2:31:00 PM

Mike Solli

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Lots to think about IJA 2e bombers. I think I'm going to let the Lily produce (but no increase to the factory) for a bit, probably the rest of the month. That's just to replace some of the 1E bombers in 3 Air Division. My final production will most likely be some Sally-Helen combination. I'm thinking 40-80. I'll ponder it a bit more and look at stats some more.

Anyway, I am pretty sure I'll have my windows issues worked out today. Here's our house rules:

No industry bombing by either side in China. (I'm thinking of possibly increasing HI here.)
Pay PPs for restricted units crossing borders. (This is mainly India-Burma, China-Burma and Manchuoko-China.)
Akyab is considered a part of India.

Scenario 1
Beta
PDU on

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/28/2011 2:51:15 PM

USSAmerica

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Mike, are you guys going to try to keep up to date with the "latest" versions of the beta as they are released?

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/28/2011 2:52:14 PM

Mike Solli

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Yup, that's the plan, Mike.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/28/2011 6:34:43 PM

obvert

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quote:

Lots to think about IJA 2e bombers. I think I'm going to let the Lily produce (but no increase to the factory) for a bit, probably the rest of the month. That's just to replace some of the 1E bombers in 3 Air Division. My final production will most likely be some Sally-Helen combination. I'm thinking 40-80. I'll ponder it a bit more and look at stats some more.

quote:

Mike, are you guys going to try to keep up to date with the "latest" versions of the beta as they are released?

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quote:

Yup, that's the plan, Mike.

One other thing, now that I'm a week into my new game using a recent beta update, is that paying 75 PP for each upgrade from 1E to 2 E is a bitch. I'm having to decide between air in China and Burma and engineers for the Pacific using my PPs. It's thin right now, and I've only just changed a few terrible commanders out, but I'll have to get a lot more switched soon before major operations get rolling.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/28/2011 7:42:45 PM

Mike Solli

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75 PP for 1E to 2E. Hmm, maybe I'll keep the 1E for awhile. I usually do. I really don't mind the Ki-30 and Ki-32, as long as there aren't any enemy fighters around.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/28/2011 10:51:24 PM

PaxMondo

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Mike: Agreed, plus they (1E bombers) will operate out of really small fields which is what you have in China to start with.

Thinking about that 75PP, I think that is another nail in the Lily coffin for me. PP's are so hard to come by until mid-42 for me, it means the conversion to 2E will be even slower which means I really won't need those Lily's much at all and can wait until I have the Sally's to convert ... just my thoughts here ...

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/28/2011 11:16:27 PM

Mike Solli

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Pax, very good advice, as always. The Lily is looking less and less likely to be built. I agree that PPs are rare for the first 6 months or so. Those 1E bombers may have to last longer than I thought.

I'm making headway with the windows in the mac thing, but still not there completely. Back at it....

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/29/2011 12:44:48 AM

Cpt Sherwood

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You need to look, there are some 1E bombers that will upgrade to Lily for no PPs. They can then be switched to the Sally for no PPs also. It is how there upgrade path is defined in the editor.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/29/2011 1:09:19 AM

1EyedJacks

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Thanks Paul. I'm looking forward to getting back into AE as well. It's been since January since I played.

Pax, you too?! Seems like all you guys are interested in hauling overland from Singapore to Fusan! What do you think? Is it gamey or not? Convince me to try it!

I don't think it's gamey. Rails and roads are there for a reason. Having said that - I'm not sure an overland route would achieve your desired goals...

Pg249
Supplies are stockpiled at bases. Supplies are created via the production system and can also come into the game at bases that are assigned a daily allotment. From there they can be distributed to satellite bases in a variety of ways already described; via air transport, by ships in TFs, submarines with transport Missions, and overland. A base may transfer supplies, oil, and resources to an adjacent base regardless of the terrain the separates the two hexes (allows
inland sea movement of resources and oil).

The whole push/pull supply process is there to keep bases and troops properly supplied. All bases along your overland route will be supplied. This is no different than the silk route or any other trade route in history. If there is a need to go overland due to enemy forces attacking your shipping then you do it. If it is significantly cheaper and safer to go overland then you do it.

Pg 209
Bases also can contain stockpiles of supplies, fuel, resources and oil (resources and oil only when production is on). Fuel stockpiles are used to refuel ships, while supply stockpiles are used to maintain aircraft, resupply ground units, and replenish naval ammunition. Each day, supplies from a base�s stockpile are distributed to ground units in the same hex as needed. Supply, fuel, resources, and oil stockpiles will also be moved automatically from bases overland to restock other bases or ground units that are running low on these items if the two bases (or ground unit) are linked by a valid supply path. When these items are automatically moved to another hex, some of the items are expended during the transfer (never more than 20% will be expended).

As I read this though, while your overland supply route from Hong Kong to Shanghai or Fusan might work, it appears that on a long journey you'd see very little at the end of the line... This also makes me wonder if it's better to run oil/fuel directly to some bases in Japan rather then dumping consumables off at bases on the western end of Japan and letting the overland system "move" consumables to where they are needed. Section 9.3.3.3 that starts on page 212 looks to give "free" transfer of oil/Resources/fuel/supplies between adjacent friendly ports (meaning nothing expended/lost during the transfer process).

I think you should try the overland trade route out and we can all learn from your experience...

Seriously - this was a good read for me as it has me rethinking how I want to move my resources and oil... Things that make me go hmmmmm.

TTFN,

Mike

< Message edited by 1EyedJacks -- 11/29/2011 1:23:15 AM >

_____________________________

TTFN,

Mike

(in reply to Mike Solli)

Post #: 90

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