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RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids)

 
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RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 11/21/2011 6:00:29 PM   
Tarhunnas


Posts: 3152
Joined: 1/27/2011
From: Hex X37, Y15
Status: offline 		Turn 152. May 11 1944.

It was clear in the far south last turn, and now mud, I hate it when this happens! A Soviet breakthrough in clear, and then mud and I can't counterattack! I have gotten the impression that historically it was often the Soviet Spearheads that ran out of supplies in the mud and then the Germans counterattacked them... but here it is the mud protecting the Soviet spearheads from counterattack!

Map before Axis moves.




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Post #: 661
RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 11/21/2011 6:25:59 PM   
karonagames


Posts: 4712
Joined: 7/10/2006
From: The Duchy of Cornwall, nr England
Status: offline 		If this is a PBEM game you could ask Pavel nicely for a hack to give you the armaments points you lost because of the 47mm AT bug. How many 47mm got built?

(in reply to Tarhunnas)
Post #: 662
RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 11/21/2011 6:32:01 PM   
gingerbread


Posts: 2994
Joined: 1/4/2007
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		Which type of squad(s) are being built by the Germans? If you have a fair to good computer, it's possible to start up two instances of WitE and compare production figures from two turns that are say 3-5 turns apart side by side. Does anything stand out regarding built squads? I'm particularly interested in the plain Rifle Squad types since their upgrade that started in January '43. Was that when the ARM drain started to become apparent? The ~55k built so far has put you back ~500k ARM. Me thinks that's the problem! See http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2956776


Edit: Having looked back in the thread, I see that the problems started before Jan '43. But it could still be the cause of them, since the date for the upgrade has been changed in later patches - I looked at the wrong version when I gave Jan '43 as a possible start date, it ought to be November '42 when the upgrade to the '43 Infantry Division started in your game. 17k Pioneer Squads costs 11 ARM each as well.

< Message edited by gingerbread -- 11/21/2011 6:59:13 PM >

(in reply to karonagames)
Post #: 663
RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 11/22/2011 12:04:16 AM   
Peltonx


Posts: 7250
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline 		Grats on 150

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Post #: 664
RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 11/23/2011 6:28:32 PM   
Tarhunnas


Posts: 3152
Joined: 1/27/2011
From: Hex X37, Y15
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BigAnorak

If this is a PBEM game you could ask Pavel nicely for a hack to give you the armaments points you lost because of the 47mm AT bug. How many 47mm got built?


Is it the German 47mm AT gun? Not too many it seems.




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Post #: 665
RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 11/23/2011 6:33:07 PM   
Tarhunnas


Posts: 3152
Joined: 1/27/2011
From: Hex X37, Y15
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton

Grats on 150


Thanks! I remember there was a mission in Starcraft where the goal was "Survive for 15 minutes!". Here I think "Survive for 150 turns" isn't bad for the German!

(in reply to Peltonx)
Post #: 666
RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 11/23/2011 6:54:47 PM   
Peltonx


Posts: 7250
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline 		The bug was 9999 armament pts to build 1 47 mm gun.

So as Flaviusx was thinking you needed a hot fix of 400,000 to 500,000 armament points.

That means your army would have been allot stronger during 42/43 and you probably would have won on a VP condition. Instead your army is a pile of poop turn 152.

So those few guns were a **** ton of armament pts.

Pelton

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Post #: 667
RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 11/23/2011 7:26:17 PM   
Flaviusx


Posts: 7750
Joined: 9/9/2009
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		Yeah, 45 of those guns with the old bug is better than 400k armament points. That is huge. It doesn't take a lot of those things to cripple the armament situation.

If you had those points you could have kept up your army to strength, and drain your pools. Now, it may be too late, things are starting to snowball.

I honestly think you guys should call the game. You won it, so far as I am concerned, and very little of value is coming out of it, it's being grossly distorted by accumulated errors and bugs and too much patching. Just put this horse out to pasture and shoot it, for the love of God.





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Post #: 668
RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 11/23/2011 7:54:22 PM   
Tarhunnas


Posts: 3152
Joined: 1/27/2011
From: Hex X37, Y15
Status: offline 		But I was looking forward to being the first ever PBEM to reach the end of the game!

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Post #: 669
RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 11/23/2011 8:28:54 PM   
karonagames


Posts: 4712
Joined: 7/10/2006
From: The Duchy of Cornwall, nr England
Status: offline 		Pavel - give him the points

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Post #: 670
RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 11/24/2011 2:10:29 AM   
Peltonx


Posts: 7250
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline 		I am sorry I was right about 20 turns ago.

We were both spanked by the 1v1=2v1 rule before 1.05.

You can just tell when things are going to go to **** in a hand basket, because you have had it happen to yourself.

Great job on getting game to over 150 turns

I have to agree with Flaviusx, just shot the old war horse.

Pelton

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Post #: 671
RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 11/24/2011 3:30:58 AM   
Ketza


Posts: 2227
Joined: 1/14/2007
From: Columbia, Maryland
Status: offline 		Keep playing!



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Post #: 672
RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 11/24/2011 2:52:34 PM   
gids

 

Posts: 369
Joined: 12/2/2010
Status: offline 		//Tarhunnas wil get his hotfix ,he deserves  it i send the turn to helpless to be updated properly

gids/

ps i was allowed to post from tarhunnas ;)

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Post #: 673
RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 11/24/2011 3:18:16 PM   
karonagames


Posts: 4712
Joined: 7/10/2006
From: The Duchy of Cornwall, nr England
Status: offline 		Thanks Pavel!!!!

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Post #: 674
RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 11/24/2011 3:55:20 PM   
Peltonx


Posts: 7250
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline 		Play on.

gids=respect.

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Post #: 675
RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 11/24/2011 10:15:38 PM   
Peltonx


Posts: 7250
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline 		Even with the 400,000 that put troops in the line that will only prolong The German army from breaking for another 30ish turns.

The long term problem with game is how easy it is to break the german army.

So even with Tarhunnases far better then historical killing russians, production loss and land gains hes still going to lose.

Many will say I am wrong, but many said I was wrong 20 turns ago when I said gids would win a major victory easly.

gids will still win a major victory, it will only take him 30ish turns to rebreak the German army. We have all seen it done in more then one game.

I am not sure what the fix will be, but when a German player does far better then historical in all areas and still loses before the Germans did there is something major wrong with the over all system.

Pelton



< Message edited by Pelton -- 11/24/2011 10:16:19 PM >

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Post #: 676
RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 11/24/2011 10:19:13 PM   
Tarhunnas


Posts: 3152
Joined: 1/27/2011
From: Hex X37, Y15
Status: offline 		I have now been given 450k ARM points by Pavel! Thanks Pavel! And thank Gids, who is really a sporting opponent!

And thanks to the audience for your support. We will try to bring this game to the very end!

Don't have time to finish the turn now though, will do it tomorrow.

(in reply to Peltonx)
Post #: 677
RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 11/24/2011 10:35:25 PM   
Peltonx


Posts: 7250
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline 		Cool.

This game is very helpful for the devs to see how the game works late in the war.

I hope I am wrong and you get a draw, because both sides are winners in my book for getting this far.

Pelton

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Post #: 678
RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 11/24/2011 10:45:13 PM   
TulliusDetritus


Posts: 5521
Joined: 4/1/2004
From: The Zone™
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton
So even with Tarhunnases far better then historical killing russians, production loss and land gains hes still going to lose.


Eh?? Maybe Gids will not even get to the Reich, and that IS a great victory for Tarhunnas on my book (I don't care at all about the VPs).

Like others said, if you really want to continue, go ahead. After all, you're doing that because you are enjoying the game. And that's the real issue

< Message edited by TulliusDetritus -- 11/24/2011 10:46:59 PM >

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Post #: 679
RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 11/25/2011 9:58:03 AM   
karonagames


Posts: 4712
Joined: 7/10/2006
From: The Duchy of Cornwall, nr England
Status: offline 		The winner is whoever has the most fun.

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Post #: 680
RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 11/25/2011 10:29:08 AM   
BletchleyGeek


Posts: 4713
Joined: 11/26/2009
From: Living in the fair city of Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton

Many will say I am wrong, but many said I was wrong 20 turns ago when I said gids would win a major victory easly.

gids will still win a major victory, it will only take him 30ish turns to rebreak the German army. We have all seen it done in more then one game.


I doubt that gids will be able to cross the Vistula before Summer 1945. That would be a Minor Victory for the Axis (unless Tarhunnas right flank collapses and the Red Army gets into the Balkans).

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Post #: 681
RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 11/25/2011 11:48:18 AM   
karonagames


Posts: 4712
Joined: 7/10/2006
From: The Duchy of Cornwall, nr England
Status: offline 		Holding Finland will also help - Helsinki is worth a few VPs - haven't seen much action from up there lately.

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Post #: 682
RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 11/25/2011 1:21:44 PM   
Peltonx


Posts: 7250
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bletchley_Geek


quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton

Many will say I am wrong, but many said I was wrong 20 turns ago when I said gids would win a major victory easly.

gids will still win a major victory, it will only take him 30ish turns to rebreak the German army. We have all seen it done in more then one game.


I doubt that gids will be able to cross the Vistula before Summer 1945. That would be a Minor Victory for the Axis (unless Tarhunnas right flank collapses and the Red Army gets into the Balkans).



That is the point breaking the German army. Tarhunnas and myself have both alrdy played games into late 43 when the German army breaks and the Russian army can advance 4 to 6 hexes per turn easly.

Berlin is only 70 to 85 hexes from most of the front.

The German army is basicly broken now, the armament point hot fix will help get allot of the german units up over ant statis for 20 to 30 turns and then it be below 2.5 million again.

So its turn 152 by turn 180 to 190 it will be broken again. So say over the next 30 turns gids advances 20 hexes and thats being nice. SHC will only be 50 hexes from Berlin with 30 turns left.

Tarhunnas will not have anyways near 142 VP's IF he can hang onto Berlin.

Tarhunnas problem is the infantry units moral is in the tank so more armament points is not going to bring up moral.

quote:

Eh?? Maybe Gids will not even get to the Reich, and that IS a great victory for Tarhunnas on my book (I don't care at all about the VPs).


gids will get to Reich NP. I am thinking not many poeple have played games when the German army breaks. The Russians can advance much more quickly then you think with allot of forse. A bunch of German ant divisions is not going to slow it down. The only thing that might save Tarhunnas is logistics of russian army. I really dont know much about it but it seem hvyly over rated compared to historical russian advances in WW2. They could advance a hundred miles or so then had to stop to supply the horde. That doesn't seem to be an issue with wite.

We all know the VP system is a joke and basicly ignore it.

Pelton

(in reply to BletchleyGeek)
Post #: 683
RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 11/25/2011 2:03:08 PM   
karonagames


Posts: 4712
Joined: 7/10/2006
From: The Duchy of Cornwall, nr England
Status: offline
quote:

I really dont know much about it but it seem hvyly over rated compared to historical russian advances in WW2.


Just wait until the soviets start abusing HQ build ups like they have been taught by certain Axis players! They should be able to advance 50 hexes in 3 turns!

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Post #: 684
RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 11/25/2011 6:34:15 PM   
Tarhunnas


Posts: 3152
Joined: 1/27/2011
From: Hex X37, Y15
Status: offline 		Turn 155. June 1 1944. Clear in the south.

Production. The manpower pool seems to be draining fast... Soon I will have a manpower problem, which feels better historically.




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Post #: 685
RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 11/25/2011 6:37:58 PM   
Tarhunnas


Posts: 3152
Joined: 1/27/2011
From: Hex X37, Y15
Status: offline 		In the south, the withdrawal behind the Dnepr is complete.




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Post #: 686
RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 11/25/2011 6:40:06 PM   
Tarhunnas


Posts: 3152
Joined: 1/27/2011
From: Hex X37, Y15
Status: offline 		Combat values look respectable. I think we will be able to hold the river here.




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Post #: 687
RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 11/26/2011 5:55:13 PM   
Tarhunnas


Posts: 3152
Joined: 1/27/2011
From: Hex X37, Y15
Status: offline 		Turn 157. June 8 1944. Clear.

The Soviets pushed across the Dnepr much easier than I had expected and established a bridgehead south of Dnepropetrovsk! This is worrying. I will have to consider a counterattack.




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RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 11/26/2011 7:12:59 PM   
gingerbread


Posts: 2994
Joined: 1/4/2007
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		Could you see how much of total raw attacker CV that was contributed by non-artillery SU's in the cross river assaults? I have started a thread in the tech forum regarding this.

(in reply to Tarhunnas)
Post #: 689
RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 11/26/2011 8:10:26 PM   
Tarhunnas


Posts: 3152
Joined: 1/27/2011
From: Hex X37, Y15
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: gingerbread

Could you see how much of total raw attacker CV that was contributed by non-artillery SU's in the cross river assaults? I have started a thread in the tech forum regarding this.


I have posted a screenshot of the attack in your thread in the tech support forum.

(in reply to gingerbread)
Post #: 690
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