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Anyone played grand campaign 1941-1945 vs. AI lately (since latest Gary's changes)?

 
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Anyone played grand campaign 1941-1945 vs. AI lately (s... - 11/13/2011 11:23:39 AM   
Apollo11


Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline 		Hi all,

Anyone played grand campaign 1941-1945 vs. AI lately (since latest Gary's changes)?


During recent testing we saw some interesting things regarding AI and we would like to get some info from you guys as well...


BTW, please post whether you played against AI using 100% vs. 100% settings or you gave AI 110% (i.e. to create more challenging game since AI is doing much better using 110% settings)!


Leo "Apollo11"

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Post #: 1
RE: Anyone played grand campaign 1941-1945 vs. AI latel... - 11/13/2011 1:02:39 PM   
Commanderski


Posts: 927
Joined: 12/12/2010
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Yes, I started a Grand Campaign when the 1.5 patch came out and have been updating with all the beta's. In the 1.50.39 version the Ai seems to be more aggressive, which I like. The patch came out during the first winter of my game so not 100% sure if it's due to just being winter or the changes.


(in reply to Apollo11)
Post #: 2
RE: Anyone played grand campaign 1941-1945 vs. AI latel... - 11/13/2011 1:30:38 PM   
ComradeP

 

Posts: 7192
Joined: 9/17/2009
Status: offline 		The AI, at least the Axis one, has become steadily more aggressive since 1.04, which is a good thing most of a the time, although it's very bad at restoring supply to isolated units it seems. I also still have strong suspicions that it still gets some movement benefits.

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Post #: 3
RE: Anyone played grand campaign 1941-1945 vs. AI latel... - 11/13/2011 1:31:38 PM   
Apollo11


Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline 		Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Commanderski

Yes, I started a Grand Campaign when the 1.5 patch came out and have been updating with all the beta's. In the 1.50.39 version the Ai seems to be more aggressive, which I like. The patch came out during the first winter of my game so not 100% sure if it's due to just being winter or the changes.


Thanks for info!

BTW, we would also like to see if someone recently started the grand campaign 1941-1945 using WitE v1.05.39 or v1.05.40 where Gary's AI fixes were introduced so that the AI can use it since the scenario start...


Leo "Apollo11"

_____________________________



Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to Commanderski)
Post #: 4
RE: Anyone played grand campaign 1941-1945 vs. AI latel... - 11/13/2011 2:03:11 PM   
horza66

 

Posts: 153
Joined: 2/1/2011
Status: offline 		I've just started (turn 5) a German campaign at challenging with .39. Nothing to say yet, but I'll update here once the AI has a chance to respond properly.

Assuming it's looking a bit stronger I may well have another go at playing and AARing the Soviets on Impossible, however I only barely survived 41 last time round.

(in reply to Apollo11)
Post #: 5
RE: Anyone played grand campaign 1941-1945 vs. AI latel... - 11/13/2011 5:44:05 PM   
gingerbread


Posts: 2994
Joined: 1/4/2007
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		Gaia needs to be told not to place HQ's alone in a hex next to a supplied enemy hex.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to horza66)
Post #: 6
RE: Anyone played grand campaign 1941-1945 vs. AI latel... - 11/13/2011 5:49:47 PM   
Apollo11


Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline 		Hi all,

Thanks guys!


Leo "Apollo11"

_____________________________



Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to horza66)
Post #: 7
RE: Anyone played grand campaign 1941-1945 vs. AI latel... - 11/14/2011 12:08:29 AM   
carlkay58

 

Posts: 8650
Joined: 7/25/2010
Status: offline 		I have a GC 41 vs Axis AI set at 110% (Soviets at 100%) - currently in turn 30 - started with 1.05.39. What would you like to know? I can't compare it myself because I have never been the Soviets vs the AI in a GC before.

In the current game - I have managed to hold the Axis to the Luga River line in AGN, just past Smolensk (retook Smolensk during mud in a counter attack from the south), and managed to hold Kiev and Odessa (cut off) in AGS - with a great Soviet defense of Zhitmer which never fell.

The AI is more aggressive than earlier versions. It does tend to goof up with HQs occasionally and still the occasional hole in the line - which has led to my counterattack in the mud. BUT - the Axis line is VERY solid during the Blizzard and I have only been able to push the frontlines back about two or three hexes except against the Axis Allied troops in the south.

(in reply to Apollo11)
Post #: 8
RE: Anyone played grand campaign 1941-1945 vs. AI latel... - 11/14/2011 8:16:38 AM   
Apollo11


Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline 		Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: carlkay58

I have a GC 41 vs Axis AI set at 110% (Soviets at 100%) - currently in turn 30 - started with 1.05.39. What would you like to know? I can't compare it myself because I have never been the Soviets vs the AI in a GC before.

In the current game - I have managed to hold the Axis to the Luga River line in AGN, just past Smolensk (retook Smolensk during mud in a counter attack from the south), and managed to hold Kiev and Odessa (cut off) in AGS - with a great Soviet defense of Zhitmer which never fell.

The AI is more aggressive than earlier versions. It does tend to goof up with HQs occasionally and still the occasional hole in the line - which has led to my counterattack in the mud. BUT - the Axis line is VERY solid during the Blizzard and I have only been able to push the frontlines back about two or three hexes except against the Axis Allied troops in the south.



Great - this is exactly what I inquired about - thanks!

Please keep us posted (and, perhaps, post some frontline screenshots)...


Leo "Apollo11"

_____________________________



Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to carlkay58)
Post #: 9
RE: Anyone played grand campaign 1941-1945 vs. AI latel... - 11/14/2011 8:17:59 AM   
Apollo11


Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline 		Hi all,

BTW, what are exactly the AI HQ goofs that several of you are referring too?

Placing lone HQs in improper places near enemy?


Leo "Apollo11"

_____________________________



Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to carlkay58)
Post #: 10
RE: Anyone played grand campaign 1941-1945 vs. AI latel... - 11/14/2011 11:15:44 AM   
gingerbread


Posts: 2994
Joined: 1/4/2007
From: Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

Hi all,

BTW, what are exactly the AI HQ goofs that several of you are referring too?

Placing lone HQs in improper places near enemy?


Leo "Apollo11"


See pic in my post above. It's from start of Soviet turn 1 and the AI has placed a lone Axis HQ 3 hexes from Riga, vulnerable to displacement.
This could be a scripted move and not the AI.

(in reply to Apollo11)
Post #: 11
RE: Anyone played grand campaign 1941-1945 vs. AI latel... - 11/14/2011 1:11:26 PM   
Apollo11


Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline 		Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: gingerbread

quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

BTW, what are exactly the AI HQ goofs that several of you are referring too?

Placing lone HQs in improper places near enemy?


See pic in my post above. It's from start of Soviet turn 1 and the AI has placed a lone Axis HQ 3 hexes from Riga, vulnerable to displacement.
This could be a scripted move and not the AI.


The initial turn(s) are made via script... that is correct...


Leo "Apollo11"

_____________________________



Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to gingerbread)
Post #: 12
RE: Anyone played grand campaign 1941-1945 vs. AI latel... - 11/14/2011 4:41:06 PM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 32265
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline 		I don't think we have a script working for the Soviets in this scenario, so I don't think that's the issue with the HQ.

_____________________________

All understanding comes after the fact.
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(in reply to Apollo11)
Post #: 13
RE: Anyone played grand campaign 1941-1945 vs. AI latel... - 11/14/2011 4:44:30 PM   
Mike13z50


Posts: 344
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: New Orleans
Status: offline 		I'm on turn 17 as Soviet in a 41GC started post latest patch. I am using custom difficulty, me all 100's AI all 120's random weather. It has been as much fun as being the Soviets in summer 41 can be.

The AI has been very effective, I thought I was going to loose Leningrad and Moscow (may still if he gets snow in October). It has Leningrad surrounded, and I'm holding the last port behind the major river to the east (volkov?) It got with in 50 miles of Moscow before I could solidify a defense, now it is pushing around to the north. In the south, with no Lvov pocket, I was able to hold the Dnper (with Kiev) and the bend to north until I chose to back off on turn 16. I'm attempting to unbalance him (the AI) by pulling him into poor supply before mud, and need him out of his forts and in poor supply before Blizzard.



It has not successful encircled any big pockets since turn one. It does try to surround, but it has tendency to route the surrounded unit same turn.

If you can build a strong enough defense it changes directions, which is good in a "hit em where they ain't" way. It might allow for maneuvering the AI in 42.

As someone mentioned it does not prioritize recovering surrounded units. I bagged a panzer and SS motorized div that stuck their neck out to far. I had a minor river and three rows of units all under 3 CV between the surrounded stack and a full panzer stack, and the AI went off and did something else, allowing me to eliminate the two units.

I'll start posting stuff in the AAR channel, I'll update my 44GC vs AI thread, it be my WITE blog.
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2939540

(in reply to Apollo11)
Post #: 14
RE: Anyone played grand campaign 1941-1945 vs. AI latel... - 11/14/2011 8:07:43 PM   
Apollo11


Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline 		Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

I don't think we have a script working for the Soviets in this scenario, so I don't think that's the issue with the HQ.


Joel, I think that he was referring to German AI moving German HQs...


Leo "Apollo11"

_____________________________



Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 15
RE: Anyone played grand campaign 1941-1945 vs. AI latel... - 11/14/2011 10:26:46 PM   
carlkay58

 

Posts: 8650
Joined: 7/25/2010
Status: offline 		Yes the Axis AI is somewhat sloppy in moving and covering its HQ. It is MUCH better than it used to be in protecting airfields. I used to trash airfields pretty easily in 1.03 (never did play very much against the AI in 1.05).

I plan on putting together an AAR of my game - I have every turn saved at the start and finish of the Soviet turns. Just going to require some time to do so - maybe during the holidays (if I get any!).

(in reply to Apollo11)
Post #: 16
RE: Anyone played grand campaign 1941-1945 vs. AI latel... - 11/14/2011 10:48:31 PM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 32265
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline 		Oops, my mistake. Yes, the German HQ move is no doubt scripted.

_____________________________

All understanding comes after the fact.
-- Soren Kierkegaard

(in reply to Apollo11)
Post #: 17
Last blizzard turn Feb 42 - 11/21/2011 9:09:17 PM   
Mike13z50


Posts: 344
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: New Orleans
Status: offline 		Here's the front line trace from the last blizzard turn in Feb 42. 41GC started post latest patch. I am using custom difficulty, me all 100's AI all 120's random weather.

I was unable to relieve Leningrad, pretty worried about it because the units get almost no replacements and with the lake frozen I couldn't boat new units in to replace the attrited units.

I retook Rzhev and cleared the east bank of the upper Volga.

He was 4 or 5 hexes from Moscow and I pushed him back about 5 hexes to the edge of the forest east of Vyazma.

I pushed him back to the river bend in the area north and east of Kiev, but think he will blow me right back off before the river melts.

Was able to make good progress in AGS area due to all the weak Romanians. Have Rifle Bde's digging in every hex along the Dnepr, I hope to hide behind it for most of the summer.

I was only able to pocket a total of two Panzer and four Infantry divisions during the blizzard.

The AI made select attacks during blizzard when I left low strength units out front.

Be interesting to see what he does this summer.






Attachment (1)

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RE: Last blizzard turn Feb 42 - 11/22/2011 10:30:30 AM   
Apollo11


Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline 		Hi all,

Nice - thanks!

Just keep it coming guys...


Leo "Apollo11"

_____________________________



Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to Mike13z50)
Post #: 19
RE: Last blizzard turn Feb 42 - 11/23/2011 4:33:41 AM   
Mike13z50


Posts: 344
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: New Orleans
Status: offline 		You might want to take a look at the attrition model and static units. It seems like units in static mode are not getting replacements. Every division was down to around 50%, the four naval brigades on the Finnish border north of Leningrad were down to 16%. Units not set static were around 70%.

(in reply to Apollo11)
Post #: 20
RE: Last blizzard turn Feb 42 - 11/23/2011 4:40:23 AM   
Flaviusx


Posts: 7750
Joined: 9/9/2009
From: Southern California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike13z50

You might want to take a look at the attrition model and static units. It seems like units in static mode are not getting replacements. Every division was down to around 50%, the four naval brigades on the Finnish border north of Leningrad were down to 16%. Units not set static were around 70%.


Even units not set to static have a hell of a time getting replacements up there. Stuff just tends to waste away no matter what you do, you have to rotate units in and out of the front line to keep them up to strength.

The real villain of the piece, imo, is the change to refits on front line formations, which is now very restricted. In the past you could brute force your way up here past the attrition by putting all the stuff on the front line to refit for a bit and bring it up to speed. Now, not so much.

If you have a Leningrad garrison that is isolated, it too tends to waste away and you eventually have to shuffle units in and out of there via Lake Ladoga to keep the garrison reasonably fresh.

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Post #: 21
RE: Last blizzard turn Feb 42 - 11/23/2011 5:44:18 PM   
Schmart

 

Posts: 662
Joined: 9/13/2010
From: Canada
Status: offline 		I've started several GCs as the Soviets, and find that the Axis AI will often tend to stack 3 divisions to attack very weak units. I've seen examples of 3 Pz Divs (or 2 Pz and 1 Mot Div) stacked to hasty attack an NKVD Border Regt. Even a full strength Rifle Division in the open doesn't need 3 Divisions to push it back, certainly not in 1941. I think much AI attacking momentum (ie: Movement Points) is wasted by having 3 divisions stack together to push back a single weak unit.

As the Soviets, I play against the AI on Challenging level.

Edit: Forgot to mention that I'm still seeing the same thing in my latest GC started under 1.05.40.

< Message edited by Schmart -- 11/23/2011 9:17:14 PM >

(in reply to Flaviusx)
Post #: 22
RE: Last blizzard turn Feb 42 - 11/24/2011 3:19:23 AM   
Mike13z50


Posts: 344
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: New Orleans
Status: offline
quote:

Even units not set to static have a hell of a time getting replacements up there. Stuff just tends to waste away no matter what you do, you have to rotate units in and out of the front line to keep them up to strength.


Yeah, that is what I'm doing now. Also, the reason my static units were not getting any replacements is because I had most of the army on refit and they sucked all the replacements out. WAD...my goof.

(in reply to Flaviusx)
Post #: 23
RE: Anyone played grand campaign 1941-1945 vs. AI latel... - 11/24/2011 6:13:10 AM   
buchand


Posts: 103
Joined: 11/22/2010
Status: offline 		Playing Axis v soviet AI - as always - I had to abandon the first couple of GCs as the AI was 'cheating' and pocketing Pzs that were doing uber Guderian advances

I'm definitely fidning the AI more aggresive but perhaps not as responsive? [need to try a few more games] The same thing with CRs as it feels there are more holds but can't say yet.

At end September with Rostov taken and Leningrad creaking and soon to fall - I hope- but Moscow looking like a Bridge too Far scenario if I went for it. I'm going to 'branch' the campaign at this point and try an offensive and a conservative scenarions to see how it goes in the winter.

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Plan? What plan? Attack!!

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Post #: 24
RE: Anyone played grand campaign 1941-1945 vs. AI latel... - 11/24/2011 7:41:03 AM   
Mike13z50


Posts: 344
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: New Orleans
Status: offline 		The AI is stymied by the uber defense behind the river lines. He has only made one attack in all of July, attacked D-town with 3 panzer stacks and got repulsed. Has not made anymore attacks since.

I think he could breach the center towards Kursk/Orel. I have very few hexes not behind river or in woods. In May he had a panzer division across the river right where the Desna goes from a major to a minor river, but I pushed him back across the river and he hasn't tried it again.

I think the AI has problems calculating the odds when attacking across river lines.

It is loosing lots of bombers to fighter interception during interdiction attacks. Doesn't always escort them.

Just waiting for October and the good rifle corps right now. I'm bombing Ploesti for want of anything better to do. Decided to take out the fuel plant first, then the oil. It looks like refinery capacity is shorter than oil supply, not sure though. I built 15 type 2 rifle corps and am going to try and relive Leningrad.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Mike13z50 -- 11/24/2011 10:58:04 PM >

(in reply to buchand)
Post #: 25
RE: Anyone played grand campaign 1941-1945 vs. AI latel... - 11/24/2011 8:39:24 AM   
Apollo11


Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline 		Hi all,

Thanks for info!


Leo "Apollo11"

_____________________________



Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to Mike13z50)
Post #: 26
RE: Anyone played grand campaign 1941-1945 vs. AI latel... - 11/25/2011 3:22:49 AM   
Mike13z50


Posts: 344
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: New Orleans
Status: offline 		This was a bit strange. We are dug in on opposite banks of the Dnper, all lvl 3 forts and he had max defense. Oct 1, 1942 rolls around and he withdraws everyone from the bend without me even attacking.

I guess the AI is programmed to expect the Oct42 good rifle corps?

I was wondering how I was going to get across the river.

Gift-Horse-Mouth.

41GC vs AI AI 120 me 100




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Mike13z50 -- 11/25/2011 3:23:19 AM >

(in reply to Apollo11)
Post #: 27
RE: Anyone played grand campaign 1941-1945 vs. AI latel... - 11/26/2011 1:17:58 PM   
Mike13z50


Posts: 344
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: New Orleans
Status: offline 		Once the rivers froze he started attacking at select points along the whole front, all successful.

Strange that the Germans wait for winter to attack.

He got across the Dnper here, just might bag that panzer division.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to Mike13z50)
Post #: 28
RE: Anyone played grand campaign 1941-1945 vs. AI latel... - 11/27/2011 12:21:25 AM   
carlkay58

 

Posts: 8650
Joined: 7/25/2010
Status: offline 		In my current game, Feb 42 has seen a snow turn and the Axis have attacked over the Luga River and driving on Leningrad. In AGC they have started a counter offensive towards Moscow. They seem to be blowing right by the river lines and forts at level 3 seem to not even slow them down!

They are routing my troops with single divisions that have been in the front lines over the past two game months - a very fast recovery from the winter blues!

(in reply to Mike13z50)
Post #: 29
RE: Anyone played grand campaign 1941-1945 vs. AI latel... - 11/27/2011 2:39:49 PM   
Apollo11


Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline 		Hi all,

Thanks guys - just keep it coming please!


Leo "Apollo11"

_____________________________



Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to Mike13z50)
Post #: 30
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