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Patch version 1.02 and 1.02B available again!!

 
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Patch version 1.02 and 1.02B available again!! - 11/28/2011 2:51:07 PM   
Deputy


Posts: 447
Joined: 9/24/2005
From: Silver City, NM USA
Status: offline
I have uploaded version 1.02 and version 1.02B to a free file-sharing location. Now folks that don't want to use version 1.03 or 1.04 can revert to the "classic" Talonsoft version of the game. Unfortunately, if you bought a new game, it will probably be 1.04 and I don't think you can go back. Sorry about that. I can't help you folks.

Here is the location of the patches:

Version 1.02B
http://www.filefactory.com/file/cf5b606/n/MCS_TEMP_102B_20070806.zip

Version 1.02
http://www.filefactory.com/file/cf5b7b6/n/JohnTillerCampaignSeries-UpdateDR-v102.zip


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Post #: 1
RE: Patch version 1.02 and 1.02B available again!! - 11/28/2011 6:53:44 PM   
MrRoadrunner


Posts: 1323
Joined: 10/7/2005
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Can of worms! 

RR


_____________________________

“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.”
― Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

(in reply to Deputy)
Post #: 2
RE: Patch version 1.02 and 1.02B available again!! - 11/28/2011 8:45:41 PM   
Deputy


Posts: 447
Joined: 9/24/2005
From: Silver City, NM USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRoadrunner

Can of worms! 

RR



Hardly. Are you practicing at being Mr. Negative or what? Many folks prefer the 1.02 version of the game. I offer it for those who want it. Again, NOBODY'S arm is being twisted to use it.

_____________________________

Squad Battles
John Tiller's Campaign Series

(in reply to MrRoadrunner)
Post #: 3
RE: Patch version 1.02 and 1.02B available again!! - 11/29/2011 1:31:52 AM   
MrRoadrunner


Posts: 1323
Joined: 10/7/2005
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Sorry Deputy dog.
I speak for no one, but myself.

So I cannot say I think everyone believes as you seem to think that you can.



RR


_____________________________

“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.”
― Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

(in reply to Deputy)
Post #: 4
RE: Patch version 1.02 and 1.02B available again!! - 11/29/2011 3:40:07 AM   
Deputy


Posts: 447
Joined: 9/24/2005
From: Silver City, NM USA
Status: offline
Sorry whoever you are. You are on my ignore list so can't see your ridiculous posts. Have a nice day.

_____________________________

Squad Battles
John Tiller's Campaign Series

(in reply to MrRoadrunner)
Post #: 5
RE: Patch version 1.02 and 1.02B available again!! - 11/29/2011 9:03:16 AM   
Wolfie1

 

Posts: 360
Joined: 12/22/2004
From: Blackpool, England
Status: offline
There is so much crap coming out of you that I can't believe that the Mods haven't neutered you yet

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Teamwork is essential - it gives the enemy someone else to shoot at.....

(in reply to Deputy)
Post #: 6
RE: Patch version 1.02 and 1.02B available again!! - 11/29/2011 1:48:33 PM   
kool_kat


Posts: 558
Joined: 7/7/2008
From: Clarksville, VA.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deputy

I have uploaded version 1.02 and version 1.02B to a free file-sharing location. Now folks that don't want to use version 1.03 or 1.04 can revert to the "classic" Talonsoft version of the game.


You do realize how much you lose by reverting back to a earlier, and I believe not supported, version 1.02 CS patch - correct?


You Lose:


* Trains
* Warships
* Pontoon Ferry / Self Propelled Boats
* Half tracks with improved firepower
* Maintenance units
* Bridging, mining, and construction engineers
* Units with Green or Veteran Designation
* Over a dozen scenarios (Primarily West Front)
* Calvary firing while mounted
* Boot Camps (training scenarios) #5 - #12
* A West Front Dynamic Campaign game
* Extended order of battles for Russian, German, and American forces. Note - These Order of Battle changes directly impact the Dynamic Campaign Order of Battles - especially the East Front campaigns for the Germans and Russians.
* Automatic campaigns save function

The above are some of the major losses you suffer by reverting to an earlier patch... there are more.

Hopefully, you made an "informed choice" when you decided to play with an earlier patch version?


_____________________________

Regards, - Mike

"You have to learn the rules of the game. And then you have to play better than anyone else." - Albert Einstein

(in reply to Deputy)
Post #: 7
RE: Patch version 1.02 and 1.02B available again!! - 11/29/2011 2:21:49 PM   
Deputy


Posts: 447
Joined: 9/24/2005
From: Silver City, NM USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mwest


quote:

ORIGINAL: Deputy

I have uploaded version 1.02 and version 1.02B to a free file-sharing location. Now folks that don't want to use version 1.03 or 1.04 can revert to the "classic" Talonsoft version of the game.


You do realize how much you lose by reverting back to a earlier, and I believe not supported, version 1.02 CS patch - correct?


You Lose:


* Trains
* Warships
* Pontoon Ferry / Self Propelled Boats
* Half tracks with improved firepower
* Maintenance units
* Bridging, mining, and construction engineers
* Units with Green or Veteran Designation
* Over a dozen scenarios (Primarily West Front)
* Calvary firing while mounted
* Boot Camps (training scenarios) #5 - #12
* A West Front Dynamic Campaign game
* Extended order of battles for Russian, German, and American forces. Note - These Order of Battle changes directly impact the Dynamic Campaign Order of Battles - especially the East Front campaigns for the Germans and Russians.
* Automatic campaigns save function

The above are some of the major losses you suffer by reverting to an earlier patch... there are more.

Hopefully, you made an "informed choice" when you decided to play with an earlier patch version?



The main things I am glad I DON'T have are 60MM and 81MM mortars as well as field artillery killing tanks at will. Plus the hidden units staying hidden in hexes right next to your units and only showing up if your unit tries to move into their hex. I GLADLY trade all of the list you have posted to eliminate those two "features". They have such a major affect on gameplay that they alter the game into something totally differerent.

It's my choice and I stand by it. Not suggesting anyone else make the change. I don't play against human opponents and I am not into creating my own scenarios or using those others have created. I rarely play Linked Campaigns. The 1.02B patch may not be supported, but it is stable and I am more than happy with it.


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(in reply to kool_kat)
Post #: 8
RE: Patch version 1.02 and 1.02B available again!! - 11/29/2011 2:59:51 PM   
kool_kat


Posts: 558
Joined: 7/7/2008
From: Clarksville, VA.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deputy

The main things I am glad I DON'T have are 60MM and 81MM mortars as well as field artillery killing tanks at will.


I believe smaller caliber mortars / artillery chances to disable armor will be either eliminated or reduced in the upcoming version 1.05 patch. Maybe larger artillery too?


quote:

ORIGINAL: Deputy

Plus the hidden units staying hidden in hexes right next to your units and only showing up if your unit tries to move into their hex.


250 meters is a large area (over 820 feet or 0.16 mile)... fairly easy for a small silhouette unit (e.g. AT gun) to remain hidden? There are tactics to overcome hidden units.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Deputy

I GLADLY trade all of the list you have posted to eliminate those two "features". They have such a major affect on gameplay that they alter the game into something totally differerent.


Again, there are tactics to overcome both hidden units and artillery kills against armor. Hidden units: Close assault with infantry. Target artillery barrages into the enemy occupied hex. Bypass the unit. Artillery kills against armor: Keep your armor moving. Shoot & Scoot tactics.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deputy

It's my choice and I stand by it.


Nobody stated otherwise?


quote:

ORIGINAL: Deputy

Not suggesting anyone else make the change. I don't play against human opponents and I am not into creating my own scenarios or using those others have created. I rarely play Linked Campaigns.


You just play Dynamic Campaigns against the AI?

So, that gives you roughly the following: EF (17 campaigns), WF (9 campaigns) and RS (3 campaigns)

And that's it?

Well, looks like version 1.02 will serve you well! Have fun!

_____________________________

Regards, - Mike

"You have to learn the rules of the game. And then you have to play better than anyone else." - Albert Einstein

(in reply to Deputy)
Post #: 9
RE: Patch version 1.02 and 1.02B available again!! - 11/29/2011 3:23:22 PM   
Deputy


Posts: 447
Joined: 9/24/2005
From: Silver City, NM USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mwest


quote:

ORIGINAL: Deputy

The main things I am glad I DON'T have are 60MM and 81MM mortars as well as field artillery killing tanks at will.


I believe smaller caliber mortars / artillery chances to disable armor will be either eliminated or reduced in the upcoming version 1.05 patch. Maybe larger artillery too?


quote:

ORIGINAL: Deputy

Plus the hidden units staying hidden in hexes right next to your units and only showing up if your unit tries to move into their hex.


250 meters is a large area (over 820 feet or 0.16 mile)... fairly easy for a small silhouette unit (e.g. AT gun) to remain hidden? There are tactics to overcome hidden units.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Deputy

I GLADLY trade all of the list you have posted to eliminate those two "features". They have such a major affect on gameplay that they alter the game into something totally differerent.


Again, there are tactics to overcome both hidden units and artillery kills against armor. Hidden units: Close assault with infantry. Target artillery barrages into the enemy occupied hex. Bypass the unit. Artillery kills against armor: Keep your armor moving. Shoot & Scoot tactics.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deputy

It's my choice and I stand by it.


Nobody stated otherwise?


quote:

ORIGINAL: Deputy

Not suggesting anyone else make the change. I don't play against human opponents and I am not into creating my own scenarios or using those others have created. I rarely play Linked Campaigns.


You just play Dynamic Campaigns against the AI?

So, that gives you roughly the following: EF (17 campaigns), WF (9 campaigns) and RS (3 campaigns)

And that's it?

Well, looks like version 1.02 will serve you well! Have fun!



I don't like chopping up posts as it makes it hard to decipher. I use quotes instead

"I believe smaller caliber mortars / artillery chances to disable armor will be either eliminated or reduced in the upcoming version 1.05 patch. Maybe larger artillery too?"

Maybe so. But that patch has been coming out for how long? Am I supposed to not play the game until the patch comes out? I don't think so.

"250 meters is a large area (over 820 feet or 0.16 mile)... fairly easy for a small silhouette unit (e.g. AT gun) to remain hidden? There are tactics to overcome hidden units.'

Yes, but an AT gun is hardly a small target. Especially in 50MM and above. When a tanker is not engaged in active combat they have the hatches open and every member of the crew is actively searching for targets. They aren't just sitting 1/2 way out of the hatch to look cool or pose for photographs. A tank commander sitting out of the hatch of a King Tiger has an amazing view because of the height of the tank. Plus he is using binoculars to enhance his viewing distance. Yet in 1.04 you have invisible anti-tank guns that aren't seen until the tank literally bumps into them. That may hold true in dense vegetation or forrest hexes. But in clear terrain hexes, no way.
My infantry is rarely up front. I usually keep them far back mounted in trucks. Infantry is used to hold ground, not take it. Tanks take ground.
Tactics should not be necessary to overcome an inappropriate situation in the game. I believe the 1.04 patch has gone too far with hidden units. My opinion.

"You just play Dynamic Campaigns against the AI?"
That is correct. Always did that since the very first incarnation of the game long before Matrix took over. Only recently have I played Linked Campaigns. They are okay, but I don't like that nobody in the unit gets any awards or decorations for a job well done. I don't much care for RS. I only play EF and WF. So subtract 3 campaigns from the list.

"Again, there are tactics to overcome both hidden units and artillery kills against armor."
I am fully aware of the tactics to TRY and overcome artillery kills against armor. But I see random artillery kills agaist armor that aren't even spotted. And by mortars that are pretty much large hand grenades (60MM and 50MM). That is simply unrealistic. And that problem is magnified when you don't get replacements for that armor in the next scenario.

"Well, looks like version 1.02 will serve you well! Have fun! "
Thank you. I AM having a great time with the game after a long hiatus. There are a few more folks that feel or felt the same way I do. Those that don't believe it can simply do a search of old threads to find them. They may have left the game and moved on. Or they may have changed comps and can't find the 1.02B patch. That's why I'm offering it for them to use. I was lucky enough to find a forum member who still had it and I posted it up for anyone to download that want's it. I'm not ragging on those who like the new patch. I simply offer an alternative.

< Message edited by Deputy -- 11/29/2011 3:26:24 PM >


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(in reply to kool_kat)
Post #: 10
RE: Patch version 1.02 and 1.02B available again!! - 11/29/2011 4:10:38 PM   
kool_kat


Posts: 558
Joined: 7/7/2008
From: Clarksville, VA.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Deputy

Yes, but an AT gun is hardly a small target. Especially in 50MM and above. When a tanker is not engaged in active combat they have the hatches open and every member of the crew is actively searching for targets. They aren't just sitting 1/2 way out of the hatch to look cool or pose for photographs. A tank commander sitting out of the hatch of a King Tiger has an amazing view because of the height of the tank. Plus he is using binoculars to enhance his viewing distance. Yet in 1.04 you have invisible anti-tank guns that aren't seen until the tank literally bumps into them. That may hold true in dense vegetation or forrest hexes. But in clear terrain hexes, no way.


The hidden anti-tank gun rule (50% to remain hidden when it fires) applies to 57mm or SMALLER guns. Any AT gun larger than 57mm is automatically spotted when firing in the LOS of enemy units. And I would argue that 57mm AT guns or smaller caliber guns are small targets! For example, both the German Pak 38 (50mm) AT and Pak 35 (37mm) AT have an overall height of only 3 feet and overall width of 5-6 feet. These are small and low silhouette guns that can be easily concealed. Also, you have to understand we are talking about these small AT guns concealed in a 250 meter area (820 feet or 0.16 mile). Lots of area to hide? And your example of a tank commander scanning from a open hatch... assuming the tank is moving... the commander and / or crew members need to be looking at the exact location of the concealed AT gun when it fires (to either see a muzzle flash, movement, etc.)... all the while in a jarring, vibrating, and moving AFV... AND than be able to target that exact location (again we are talking about a 250 meter area)... and hit that 3 foot high concealed AT gun. Also, both the German Pak 50 and Pak 35 don't require a tow vehicle to be moved and can be (fairly quickly) man-handled into another position.

IMO, this is a reasonable and pretty realistic rule.


< Message edited by mwest -- 11/29/2011 4:14:37 PM >


_____________________________

Regards, - Mike

"You have to learn the rules of the game. And then you have to play better than anyone else." - Albert Einstein

(in reply to Deputy)
Post #: 11
RE: Patch version 1.02 and 1.02B available again!! - 11/29/2011 5:22:58 PM   
MrRoadrunner


Posts: 1323
Joined: 10/7/2005
Status: offline
This is the Matrix - John Tiller - Campaign Series forum?

I think that the Talonsoft forums are a thing of the past or stuck in cyber space where no one can reach them. Heck, half of what Deputy wants was discussed there twelve plus years ago.

When the first patch that included Extreme Assault was implemented I might have felt the same a Deputy. "Let's go back to the old Talonsoft versions and lose the new garbage."
But, I do like the support. I do like the new additions (minus EA and Vv).
I play Campaigns and have learned to alter my style of play to minimize the effects of the new rules. Plus, if you want a "Hal" that is two steps up from "Moron Hal", you need to play campaigns using Extreme Assault. This gives Hal a fighting chance against disrupt and overrun.

My only "irk" with Deputy is that he might have done one thread; "Why I hate Matrix JTCS", or "I play only versus the computer and I hate all the changes", where he could have waxed poetic about all the things he finds wrong and why he wants to play in the old Talonsoft version.
Four or five threads of why this game stinks and why I hate everything about the new version, here are ways to play it the old Talonsoft way, from a person who only plays versus the AI, kinda grinds after the second or third thread, let alone numerous posts?
I have a number of copies of Talonsoft versions and the early Matrix version (which was a copy of the Talonsoft version), that I would have gladly shipped to Deputy. Emphasis on "would have" as I could not ship to someone who ignores me. 

I think these threads staying on the forum are a testament to Jason's patience and good heart. If I were he, I would have bombed this long ago.

RR


_____________________________

“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.”
― Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

(in reply to kool_kat)
Post #: 12
RE: Patch version 1.02 and 1.02B available again!! - 11/29/2011 5:46:03 PM   
kool_kat


Posts: 558
Joined: 7/7/2008
From: Clarksville, VA.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRoadrunner

I play Campaigns and have learned to alter my style of play to minimize the effects of the new rules. Plus, if you want a "Hal" that is two steps up from "Moron Hal", you need to play campaigns using Extreme Assault. This gives Hal a fighting chance against disrupt and overrun.

My only "irk" with Deputy is that he might have done one thread; "Why I hate Matrix JTCS", or "I play only versus the computer and I hate all the changes", where he could have waxed poetic about all the things he finds wrong and why he wants to play in the old Talonsoft version.


I noted the same with the OP's posts.

Ironically, the majority of the complaints, in these referenced threads, are directly related to either the sub-par AI... or an individual's playing style - both subjects that the OP does not want to either discuss or address?

In fact, I was "strongly encouraged", by this OP, to start my own thread on "Why I love PBeM." And in that single thread, I stated the major reasons why I love human versus human play. Several other players weighted in on the subject... and I actually "found" another opponent - who previously had only played against the AI! I introduced him to H2H play and he is having a great time! Again, this was done in one thread... and not in a series of one topic threads that address the same issues?

< Message edited by mwest -- 11/29/2011 5:49:02 PM >


_____________________________

Regards, - Mike

"You have to learn the rules of the game. And then you have to play better than anyone else." - Albert Einstein

(in reply to MrRoadrunner)
Post #: 13
RE: Patch version 1.02 and 1.02B available again!! - 11/29/2011 8:44:59 PM   
Deputy


Posts: 447
Joined: 9/24/2005
From: Silver City, NM USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mwest

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deputy

Yes, but an AT gun is hardly a small target. Especially in 50MM and above. When a tanker is not engaged in active combat they have the hatches open and every member of the crew is actively searching for targets. They aren't just sitting 1/2 way out of the hatch to look cool or pose for photographs. A tank commander sitting out of the hatch of a King Tiger has an amazing view because of the height of the tank. Plus he is using binoculars to enhance his viewing distance. Yet in 1.04 you have invisible anti-tank guns that aren't seen until the tank literally bumps into them. That may hold true in dense vegetation or forrest hexes. But in clear terrain hexes, no way.


The hidden anti-tank gun rule (50% to remain hidden when it fires) applies to 57mm or SMALLER guns. Any AT gun larger than 57mm is automatically spotted when firing in the LOS of enemy units. And I would argue that 57mm AT guns or smaller caliber guns are small targets! For example, both the German Pak 38 (50mm) AT and Pak 35 (37mm) AT have an overall height of only 3 feet and overall width of 5-6 feet. These are small and low silhouette guns that can be easily concealed. Also, you have to understand we are talking about these small AT guns concealed in a 250 meter area (820 feet or 0.16 mile). Lots of area to hide? And your example of a tank commander scanning from a open hatch... assuming the tank is moving... the commander and / or crew members need to be looking at the exact location of the concealed AT gun when it fires (to either see a muzzle flash, movement, etc.)... all the while in a jarring, vibrating, and moving AFV... AND than be able to target that exact location (again we are talking about a 250 meter area)... and hit that 3 foot high concealed AT gun. Also, both the German Pak 50 and Pak 35 don't require a tow vehicle to be moved and can be (fairly quickly) man-handled into another position.

IMO, this is a reasonable and pretty realistic rule.



Any AT gun in OPEN TERRAIN is going to be VERY difficult to hide. And once it fires it should be "game over" for them. They should be spotted immediately. And that is where these guns are hiding in 1.04. In CLEAR TERRIAN. I speak from personal experience. I served on an M60A1 tank with the 3rd Armored Cav in Ft. Lewis Washington. That tank is comparable in height to a King Tiger. Possibly slightly lower. And the visibility in clear terrain far exceeds what most people imagine it is. A 50MM or smaller anti-tank guns shouldn't even phaze a King Tiger. And that is an AP round. Yet 1.04 has 60 and 50MM MORTAR ROUNDS killing King Tigers. Tell me that isan't all screwed up.

As to human vs human play...sorry...not interested. Not what I bought the game for. It's that simple.



< Message edited by Deputy -- 11/29/2011 8:45:25 PM >


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(in reply to kool_kat)
Post #: 14
RE: Patch version 1.02 and 1.02B available again!! - 11/29/2011 9:40:08 PM   
MrRoadrunner


Posts: 1323
Joined: 10/7/2005
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Sounds like a guy who never read historical accounts, from WWII, where the Allies were slowed down to a crawl by hidden AT guns. Not withstanding his military service where practice was in the open and no one actually shooting at him.
Today there are sound devices that allow soldiers to find where a shot came from.

Many a tank commander was killed or severely wounded driving around unbuttoned.
I do agree that smaller caliber mortar rounds do damage that should not be possible. But, as Jason said, that was an oversight that will be corrected in an upcoming patch. Patience is a virtue?

You may want to purchase Modern Wars when it is released. I am sure you will find your M60A1 there?
And, the glitches in mortars will be fixed in it too?

Oops ... that's right ... he's not reading me. I guess others might be?

RR


_____________________________

“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.”
― Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

(in reply to Deputy)
Post #: 15
RE: Patch version 1.02 and 1.02B available again!! - 11/29/2011 9:43:37 PM   
kool_kat


Posts: 558
Joined: 7/7/2008
From: Clarksville, VA.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Deputy

Any AT gun in OPEN TERRAIN is going to be VERY difficult to hide. And once it fires it should be "game over" for them. They should be spotted immediately. And that is where these guns are hiding in 1.04. In CLEAR TERRIAN. I speak from personal experience. I served on an M60A1 tank with the 3rd Armored Cav in Ft. Lewis Washington. That tank is comparable in height to a King Tiger. Possibly slightly lower. And the visibility in clear terrain far exceeds what most people imagine it is. A 50MM or smaller anti-tank guns shouldn't even phaze a King Tiger. And that is an AP round. Yet 1.04 has 60 and 50MM MORTAR ROUNDS killing King Tigers. Tell me that isan't all screwed up.

As to human vs human play...sorry...not interested. Not what I bought the game for. It's that simple.



Really? I guess, if you assume you are in a stationary tank with hatches open and tank commander standing upright in the turret... scanning ahead with binoculars... an AT gun is very difficult to hide. Unfortunately, in a battlefield environment, you would quickly become a casualty?

Now, imagine this scene. You are in a tank charging across open terrain... hatches buttoned up... because you are receiving small arms fire... and in that loud, violently shaking and vibrating AFV, your trying to peer out of a tiny slit... with a view that is obscured by dust, and smoke... attempting to spot a small, silhouette AT gun with an overall height of only 3 feet... and suddenly it becomes a whole lot more difficult to spot it... even in clear terrain?

< Message edited by mwest -- 11/30/2011 11:37:21 AM >


_____________________________

Regards, - Mike

"You have to learn the rules of the game. And then you have to play better than anyone else." - Albert Einstein

(in reply to Deputy)
Post #: 16
RE: Patch version 1.02 and 1.02B available again!! - 11/30/2011 12:32:35 AM   
Deputy


Posts: 447
Joined: 9/24/2005
From: Silver City, NM USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mwest


quote:

ORIGINAL: Deputy

Any AT gun in OPEN TERRAIN is going to be VERY difficult to hide. And once it fires it should be "game over" for them. They should be spotted immediately. And that is where these guns are hiding in 1.04. In CLEAR TERRIAN. I speak from personal experience. I served on an M60A1 tank with the 3rd Armored Cav in Ft. Lewis Washington. That tank is comparable in height to a King Tiger. Possibly slightly lower. And the visibility in clear terrain far exceeds what most people imagine it is. A 50MM or smaller anti-tank guns shouldn't even phaze a King Tiger. And that is an AP round. Yet 1.04 has 60 and 50MM MORTAR ROUNDS killing King Tigers. Tell me that isan't all screwed up.

As to human vs human play...sorry...not interested. Not what I bought the game for. It's that simple.



You have stated numerous times (including in this post) that you don't like either the hidden AT rule or artillery versus armor... and because of these rules... you have decided to revert to a back level, unsupported patch version. I got it. Go for it!

What I don't understand... is why you feel the need to create multiple threads... in which you constantly "rag" (your term) on JTCS? You like playing the version 1.02 patch... others like playing with the version 1.04 patch. Why should you care?

You've made your decision to play exclusively against the AI and play with a back level, unsupported patch version. Why do you feel the need to constantly justify or explain that decision?



This thread was about me making version 1.02B available to anyone who wishes to use it. The 1.04 fans are the ones who jumped in and stirred the pot. It's my thread and I get to say whatever I please as long as I don't do personal attacks (like some folks seem to enjoy) or violate forum rules. I don't try and force ANYONE to like 1.02B. And I won't be pressured into liking 1.03 or 1.04. get it?

_____________________________

Squad Battles
John Tiller's Campaign Series

(in reply to kool_kat)
Post #: 17
RE: Patch version 1.02 and 1.02B available again!! - 11/30/2011 3:08:37 AM   
kool_kat


Posts: 558
Joined: 7/7/2008
From: Clarksville, VA.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Deputy

This thread was about me making version 1.02B available to anyone who wishes to use it. The 1.04 fans are the ones who jumped in and stirred the pot. It's my thread and I get to say whatever I please as long as I don't do personal attacks (like some folks seem to enjoy) or violate forum rules. I don't try and force ANYONE to like 1.02B. And I won't be pressured into liking 1.03 or 1.04. get it?


Yes. The thread subject is making CS version 1.02B available. I highlighted some of the major functionality, game rules, units, countries, order of battles, etc. that a player will lose by reverting to a back level, non-supported version patch - a related subject to the OP, and one of great importance for any player who would consider playing with version 1.02B.

The OP brought up both the hidden AT and artillery versus armor rules. An erroneous comment was made on what the hidden AT rule covered... and this point was commented on and corrected by me.

All contributors to this thread made comments relative to subjects and views presented by the OP. All contributors to this thread have a right to voice their opinions on views and comments in a public forum, as long as they don't make personal attacks or violate forum rules.

And nobody is "forcing" or "pressuring" anyone on any subject. Contrary to the OP's opinion, thread "creators" cannot "control," "pressure," or "force" other contributors to "their" thread to either agree or disagree with various viewpoints and opinions.


< Message edited by mwest -- 11/30/2011 10:23:47 AM >


_____________________________

Regards, - Mike

"You have to learn the rules of the game. And then you have to play better than anyone else." - Albert Einstein

(in reply to Deputy)
Post #: 18
RE: Patch version 1.02 and 1.02B available again!! - 11/30/2011 10:55:40 AM   
MrRoadrunner


Posts: 1323
Joined: 10/7/2005
Status: offline
"Stirring the pot"
"Personal attacks"
"Jumping in"
"Causing Havoc"
"Dogs and cats playing together"

What pot stirring? What personal attacks? What jumping in? What havoc? What dogs and ... (get the point?)

This is a forum to discuss "Matrix John Tiller Campaign Series". It is not the Talonsoft CS series, nor is it the Deputy forum to bitch and moan about the Matrix version while extolling the virtues of the original Talonsoft version.
Remember, the game has evolved and is supported by Matrix.

Some of us who made comments don't even care for some of the upgrades or "improvements", such as Extreme Assault, Variable Visibility, and units that don't seem to fit the game's scale. Some of us commented a couple years back about artillery and the way "Hal" works. But, we know the game is supported and things will get fixed.
We've been told that hidden units are staying in the game. Deal with it. Change your playing style (or tactics, if you will) and overcome the ambushes. Artillery will be changed so that smaller caliber mortars will not have the same effect as large caliber guns. The changes are coming. Maybe not at the pace you want, but they are coming and a great many look forward to them.

90% of my CS time is playing versus human opponents. I find them more challenging. And, the chance of losing to a human is 99.9% greater than losing to "Hal".
The support and improvements have mostly been to aid H2H players. A lesser amount has been to those who only play campaigns. I think Jason and crew made the right choice and salute them for it.

You want others to march with you into the past. Support an unsupported game on a forum that is for the (wait for it) ... Matrix - John Tiller - Campaign Series. Put the emphasis on Matrix and your threads become as valuable as Dumbasrocks threads on his hybrid PG/CS monster blend. Which had as much relevance here as going back to the Talonsoft version.

You can complain. Heck, I've complained plenty. But, please, stick to Matrix JTCS and not your desire to dilute the product and subvert the Matrix team's attempt to support and improve the game.

Just sayin'!

RR


_____________________________

“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.”
― Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

(in reply to kool_kat)
Post #: 19
RE: Patch version 1.02 and 1.02B available again!! - 11/30/2011 2:19:08 PM   
Deputy


Posts: 447
Joined: 9/24/2005
From: Silver City, NM USA
Status: offline
I don't care WHAT others do. They can update to the current version or not. I simply offered an alternative. You don't like it? Tough toenails. Dont download it. It's that simple. All these other comments are just blowing smoke and padding post counts.

_____________________________

Squad Battles
John Tiller's Campaign Series

(in reply to MrRoadrunner)
Post #: 20
RE: Patch version 1.02 and 1.02B available again!! - 11/30/2011 2:52:13 PM   
kool_kat


Posts: 558
Joined: 7/7/2008
From: Clarksville, VA.
Status: offline
Here is the comprehensive list of what players will lose by reverting to a down level and unsupported version 1.02 patch:

----------------------------------------

IMPORTANT!!! -Assault Rule Change
- The new assault routine runs through the casualty processing, then does an odds ratio melee resolution, then does a combined morale test of the defending stack. If the attacker has at least one non-disrupted unit, wins the melee resolution, and the defender fails his morale check, then the attackers win. For assault purpose only, disrupted units have their morale halved.
- Basically, anything the defender can do to increase his morale makes it harder for him to fail the morale test and thus successfully repel the attack The best thing to do when assaulting is ensure you're assaulting with overwhelming force to provide the victory you seek


o West Front – 16 new scenarios
o East Front – 8 new scenarios – Many new Bootcamp scenarios that provide the opportunity to play with the new features, additions.
o All – Day to Night, Night to Day Capability
o All – Varying Visibility Added
o West Front – US Army OOB revisions and mass expansion – 1930 to 1953
o East Front – Soviet OOB revisions and mass expansion – 1930 to 1953
o East Front – German OOB revisions and mass expansion – 1930 to 1953
o Rising Sun – Two new nationalities added
o East Front – Numerous new units for Germans and Soviets.
o West Front – Numerous new units for US Army
o Panzerfaust/Bazooka: These have Assault Values remaining at 1. These are designed to be used differently than the Soviet ATR platoons, they should be rarity on the battlefield.
o Special Forces: This provides a very few select units to remain hidden when shooting. This is a new code primarily for snipers and/or small commando sized units. This will be a rarity.
o Sniper: These have an Assault Value of 1 to prevent automatic overrun by an assaulting unit. They should be rarity on the battlefield.
o Armour Penalty: Armour suffers a 50% penalty (attack and defence) when assaulting villages, towns, suburbs etc. It is best to assault with infantry when capturing towns/cities – which is proper practice anyway!
o Hidden Anti-Tank: This provides small anti-tank guns (57mm – 6pdr or SMALLER) a 50% chance to remain hidden when it fires. This also applies to Bazooka/Panzerfaust/AT Rifles
o Artillery vs. Armour: Artillery now has a 4% chance of disabling armoured vehicles.
o Trucks: Truck Victory Points are now worth 3 per Strength Point. Use them wisely.
o Truck Carry: Only 3 Trucks are required to carry a 6 Strength Point infantry platoon. MG and crew served weapons still require the same amount of trucks per SP to carry. (A 4 Strength Points MG Platoon requires a 4 Strength Points of Trucks)
o Halftrack ***: Designate halftracks with improved firepower. They are worth 6 Victory Points per Strength Point, but fire similar to a normal MG. These are new units, and will only affect new scenarios where they are included.
o Maintenance Units: AKA Recovery Platoon, AKA Werkstat, AKA Dozer. These are units that can REMOVE 2 WRECKS PER TURN. They act similar to Engineers in that respect. You move the unit into a hex with wrecks and leave it there for a turn to start removing wrecks. At this point, these ARE NOT combat units but have some defence, so you will have to secure the area they intend to operate prior to sending them to the frontline. Again, as a new unit, these will only affect new scenarios.
o New Engineer Capabilities
- Bridging Engineers: These are special Engineers that can build medium bridges across hexsides. See Manual Section 5.17.1 for more information.
- Mine Engineers: These are special Engineers that are capable of laying a one strength minefield. See Manual Section 5.17.2 for more information.
- Construction Engineers: These are special Engineers that can build a block and trenches. See Manual Section 5.17.3 & 5.17.4 for more information.
o All – Improved Position to Trench by Construction Engineer Capabilities
o Engineer Trucks: Increased to 6 Victory Points per Strength Point. These are specialty vehicles that can haul pontoon ferries and crewed boats.
o On map Air Attack Capabilities
- Recce: These are ON MAP aircraft that provide some intelligence to the operating commander. They can fly pretty much anywhere, but cannot take points. Again, as a new unit, these will only affect new scenarios.
- Bombers: These are ON MAP flying bombers that have a limited strike function. They can fly to a target on the map, fire at it and since it has run out of ammunition, it will be best to fly off the map. Again, as a new unit, these will only affect new scenarios.
- Anti-Aircraft: Small anti-aircraft guns are now coded to target Recce and Bombers. Obviously, AA has a purpose on the map now as opposed to just being meat grinders.
o Training: There are numerous new infantry types with Green or Veteran designations. This represents the combat effectiveness of the platoon. Green stands for infantry that has been rushed through training and have had no combat experience. All of the Stock Units are classified have no visual designation and are classified as Regular – having infantry training with little or no combat experience. Veteran platoons have had ample combat experience. The differences are in the Assault and Defence numbers as well as the weapon attack numbers. A Veteran unit is more likely to put more shots on target than a Green unit in a combat situation. Again, as a new unit, these will only affect new scenarios – the stock units did not change.
o East Front – Various Graphic BMP improvements
o West Front – Various Graphic BMP improvements
o Rising Sun – Various Graphic BMP improvements
o West Front – Various Unit BMP improvements
o East Front – Various Unit BMP improvements
o East Front – Incorporation of some LADMO graphics
o All – Beginning to implement 24-bit BMP graphics
o East Front – Talonsoft German and Soviet Order of Battles reinstated for DCG’s (Warning: these are stock; user beware)
o East Front – German and Soviet Order of Battles revised for use with DCG’s. This is a work in progress, SS units, etc will be coming with future updates.
o User Mods folder available with various mods that are available to install.
o Save Game Counter (1.03): This counts how many times the game has been saved and reopened, and will display that information in the turn Dialog at the start of a turn for the opponent. This information is installed in the registry of the game so it cannot be tampered with. After TWO saves from player A, the game is supposed to flash a warning to the Player B that the file has had multiple saves. While not perfect, it should help curb some replaying.
o New Encryption (1.03): The other anti-cheating measure is a new encryption system for the platoon files to ensure that everyone is using the same platoon/weapon files. It was a problem in the past, and I recently received an email yet again about it. The new Encryption Tool will not be available to the general public. Instead, there will be a place available on the forums for requesting new unit types or revisions.
o Campaign Save Location: The Campaigns now automatically save, the save game Dialog box no longer appears.


Fixes
o West Front –Minor Nations not firing - Fixed
o All – Horses firing in a continuous loop – Fixed
o Rising Sun – Cave Bug – Fixed
o All – Campaign Save Game location updated – Fixed
o All – Concealment Values revised – Fixed
o East Front – Dynamic Campaigns – Barbarossa DCG – replacements have been improved from mid 1942 to 1945, with the assumption a player will accept higher commands as the campaign progresses - Fixed
o West Front – Dynamic Campaigns – Many Campaigns have been modified and improved
o East Front – Dynamic Campaigns – General campaign file has been tweaked, hopefully resolving the Congressional Medal of Honour bug – Fixed
o East Front – Soviet 82mm Mortar Graphic Bug – Fixed
o West Front – Org Editor Bugs – Fixed
o East Front – Org Editor Bugs – Fixed
o Rising Sun – Org Editor Bugs – Fixed
o All – Assault Value of Naval Vessels reduced to 0
o All – Vehicle Assaulting village, suburb or city; rules modified.
o All – Assault Rules adjusted


• Manual Additions
o A Complete revision has been done to the Manual.
o MCS BOOTCAMP document available
o Hints and Tips document available
o Assaulting Basics PDF available
o Creating and Modifying a DCG document available
o Scenario Introduction Template document available

----------------------------------------


One of the most important items to note with reverting back to a down level, and unsupported patch... JTCS players will inherit a number of software "bugs" that were fixed in the version 1.03 patch.

Note that several Dynamic Campaigns are negatively impacted by reverting to a down level, and unsupported patch.

IMO, it is very important for players to understand the trade offs and make informed and intelligent decisions on what game patches to run on.

< Message edited by mwest -- 11/30/2011 2:55:23 PM >


_____________________________

Regards, - Mike

"You have to learn the rules of the game. And then you have to play better than anyone else." - Albert Einstein

(in reply to Deputy)
Post #: 21
RE: Patch version 1.02 and 1.02B available again!! - 11/30/2011 4:06:32 PM   
Jason Petho


Posts: 15009
Joined: 6/22/2004
From: Terrace, BC, Canada
Status: offline
Locked by request.

_____________________________


(in reply to kool_kat)
Post #: 22
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