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sending damaged ships to pearl - 11/4/2002 3:21:44 AM   
mapie500

 

Posts: 14
Joined: 11/4/2002
Status: offline 		how does one send heavily damaged ships to pearl harbor for faster repair. i see option in menu under individual ship, but clicking on it does nothing.
Post #: 1
- 11/4/2002 3:41:08 AM   
Pawlock

 

Posts: 1041
Joined: 9/18/2002
From: U.K.
Status: offline 		They can only be sent back to Pearl when your ship is in port at Noumea.

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Post #: 2
- 11/4/2002 4:38:04 AM   
Spooky


Posts: 816
Joined: 4/1/2002
From: Froggy Land
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Pawlock
[B]They can only be sent back to Pearl when your ship is in port at Noumea. [/B][/QUOTE]

Or in port at Truk if you are playing the Japanese ...

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Post #: 3
- 11/4/2002 8:37:12 PM   
elmo3

 

Posts: 5820
Joined: 1/22/2002
Status: offline 		IIRC some scenarios don't allow ships to go to Pearl/Japan for repair. Something about partial damage points being awarded. Sorry for being so vague but I don't have the manual here at work. In my current Operation Mo game I can't send a heavily damaged CV back to Japan because of that.

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Post #: 4
- 11/4/2002 10:37:10 PM   
Admiral_Arctic

 

Posts: 154
Joined: 8/15/2002
From: Nonamia
Status: offline 		In the short batlles/campaigns you can send damaged ships to Pearl/Truk for repairs.

In the grand campaigns (scen#17, 19) you can send ships (damaged/undamaged/unwanted) back to Pearl Harbour or Japan. But only from Noumea or Truk. If you are going to send back a ship with airplanes on board, you can take them off before they leave. I think most people do this.

Some ships like SS don't arrive very often as reinforcements, so even if they have a lot of damage I usually keep them.

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Post #: 5
Damage - 11/4/2002 11:06:50 PM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Admiral_Arctic
[B]
Some ships like SS don't arrive very often as reinforcements, so even if they have a lot of damage I usually keep them. [/B][/QUOTE]

Hi, What good are damaged ships? If there is a sub in the main port (Japan/PH) and no subs are in route sending the damaged sub back might trigger a replacment. (maybe not a sub)

The way the system works is depending on time frame there is a set upper limit to the combined ship point value that can be on map. If there is a large amount of points the player can still deploy you get the "high" status in Ship Availbility. Here you can send any damaged ship back and be sure the next available ship will be dispatched. Same with "moderate" When status is "low"
That is the time to return all unneeded ships when there are ships at home you want. The closer you get to maximum number of points on map the lower you can set the damage needed to go home. (since you need to send ships home to lower total deployed to get release of those certain ships at home).

The upper limits change according to time frame. Japanese player wants to rotate shipos early and in mid/late 42 start getting picky about what he keeps and what he sends home.
(It might be best to keep a CV with less then 25 sys damage-where early in game it would be best to send it back in order to trigger release of an undamaged one)

US players should in early stages try to arrange night surface battles with smaller enemy TF. The 20 point jump in night experiance gained will come in handy when that ship returns from repair. Avoid battles where the Japanese will have too great a force (since you don't want to lose the ship just get it trained and off map so another untrained ship will come down. By 1 Jan 43 you should be getting your "veteran" ships back"

Just sitting on any ship regardless of damage will cause more problem then it is worth (a ship above 20 percent damage is worhtless against undamaged ships. they all repair faster at home and that is where weapon upgrades occurs. Send ships back. (In quiet periods I get to where I send ships back with 5-6 system damage-it does not hurt as long as there are ships of same type at home)(5-6system damage means ship will be gone for around a month-counting return time. Of course I do not do this with CV or BB (slow BB often get sent back turn they arrive)
(ships I have no use for in period they arrive get sent back (USN AV/CVE) There might be a time and place for a ship but if it is beyond the time it takes the ship to turn around I send it back (I might trigger a more usefull ships arrival)

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Post #: 6
- 11/5/2002 2:58:31 AM   
elmo3

 

Posts: 5820
Joined: 1/22/2002
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Admiral_Arctic
[B]In the short batlles/campaigns you can send damaged ships to Pearl/Truk for repairs.

...[/B][/QUOTE]

I have a heavily damaged (51% system) CV that has been in Truk at least a week in Operation Mo and the button to return it to Japan is grayed out.

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Post #: 7
- 11/5/2002 3:10:40 AM   
Sonny

 

Posts: 2008
Joined: 4/3/2002
Status: offline 		Interesting.

Sounds kinda "gamey" to me.:)

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Post #: 8
- 11/5/2002 3:47:05 AM   
XPav

 

Posts: 550
Joined: 7/10/2002
From: Northern California
Status: offline 		In one scenario played vs the AI, I mashed the entire IJN flat, at the cost if eventually having no big carriers (one sunk, most damaged).

So I got a bunch of CVEs, and since there wasn't any major threat, they didn't send me any more CVs or CVLs.

Annoying, but it makes sense. What made less sense was the Marine F4Us flying off the CVEs that wiped out any remaining bombers attempting to attack my CVEs.

Their subs had more luck though. CVEs can't take torpedo hits.

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Post #: 9
- 11/5/2002 4:28:14 AM   
Pawlock

 

Posts: 1041
Joined: 9/18/2002
From: U.K.
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Sonny
[B]Interesting.

Sounds kinda "gamey" to me.:) [/B][/QUOTE]

While I dont quite go to the extremes of the tactics Mogami uses, I see nothing gamey about these tactics.

Its certainly not exploiting an advantage of one side over another as both players can do it. It also carries a risk too , the risk of not getting exactly what you want. Ok this is a calculated risk, but a risk none the less, plus he has also sent ships back and by the time new ships are committed based on recent sendings back, they are still normally 2 weeks away from theatre in which time he has a slight disadvantage over those who chose to leave ships in port.

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Post #: 10
- 11/5/2002 7:42:53 AM   
Sonny

 

Posts: 2008
Joined: 4/3/2002
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Pawlock
[B]

While I dont quite go to the extremes of the tactics Mogami uses, I see nothing gamey about these tactics.

Its certainly not exploiting an advantage of one side over another as both players can do it. It also carries a risk too , the risk of not getting exactly what you want. Ok this is a calculated risk, but a risk none the less, plus he has also sent ships back and by the time new ships are committed based on recent sendings back, they are still normally 2 weeks away from theatre in which time he has a slight disadvantage over those who chose to leave ships in port. [/B][/QUOTE]

Not real familiar with the details of the Pacific War, but what real life situation is this supposed to represent?:confused:

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Post #: 11
- 11/5/2002 8:42:15 AM   
Pawlock

 

Posts: 1041
Joined: 9/18/2002
From: U.K.
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Sonny
[B]

Not real familiar with the details of the Pacific War, but what real life situation is this supposed to represent?:confused: [/B][/QUOTE]

You may have put a emote after your initial comment, but the intonation was there plain to see that you view this tactic as (waggles fingers in air "unsportsmanlike, underhand etc" ).

I think theres far too much name calling and sour grapes flying around when things either dont go peoples way, dont do things in purely historical/realistic fashion , or dont do things that they did'nt think of first.
At the end of the day this is a GAME, its not real life ,it will never be real life, it will never be truelly accurate. Ah yes I hear, its called a simulation so everything must be as accurate as possible. Yes accuracy is nice, historical comparisons is nice, it all adds up to the feeling of actually thinking your there. But sometimes you just cant model certain things accuratly, and have to develop systems that do a reasonable job.

Anyway I digress, what you are saying then is , when you send ships back to Japan/Pearl you can hand on your heart say you dont look at whats available and what may be committed? If you can, I dont believe you!!

The only difference is that some players choose to send thier ships back sooner rather than later, all a matter or preference. Its all a matter of strategy and tactics developed for use with this GAME.

I'll state again I dont go to the same level as Mogami, and for the life of me I cant see anything wrong with this.

Oh and no, I dont know a lot about the Pacific theatre of war, but again Im only playing a GAME.

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Post #: 12
- 11/5/2002 8:57:56 AM   
Caltone


Posts: 651
Joined: 9/5/2001
From: Raleigh, NC USA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Sonny
[B]

Not real familiar with the details of the Pacific War, but what real life situation is this supposed to represent?:confused: [/B][/QUOTE]

With campaigns of the length modeled in the game, you must agree for the need of some interchange of ships in/out of the theater.

If its the mechanics of the system matrix/2by3 developed to do this, I'm Ok with it and couldn't really think of any better alternatives. I guess you could have a "wish list" type system but the current one does give some randomness to it, to simulate the issues out of the player's control.

Speaking of committment, has anyone had long periods of time with high committment and zero ships sent? I'm looking at over 2 weeks in a game where my level shows high, many ships back home, I have a decided shortage of ships of all classes, but nothing sent from home. Any ideas?

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Post #: 13
- 11/5/2002 9:07:36 AM   
Pawlock

 

Posts: 1041
Joined: 9/18/2002
From: U.K.
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Caltone
[B]


Speaking of committment, has anyone had long periods of time with high committment and zero ships sent? I'm looking at over 2 weeks in a game where my level shows high, many ships back home, I have a decided shortage of ships of all classes, but nothing sent from home. Any ideas? [/B][/QUOTE]

Caltone, that is brilliant, that is one of the points I was trying to make in regards to risk factor of said tactics. Your example shows there is no guarentee even when ship committment is high that you are gonna get ships.

As to why you are not getting them, again there is no guarentee but I imagine High Committment would give ya a highter random figure which is used in some equation as to wether you get ships or not.

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Post #: 14
- 11/5/2002 9:10:36 AM   
Caltone


Posts: 651
Joined: 9/5/2001
From: Raleigh, NC USA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Pawlock
[B]

As to why you are not getting them, again there is no guarentee but I imagine High Committment would give ya a highter random figure which is used in some equation as to wether you get ships or not. [/B][/QUOTE]

Heh, in my case, they probably are afraid to trust me with any more of the fleet ;)

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Post #: 15
gamey? - 11/5/2002 9:11:59 AM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		Greetings, What is remotely gamey (whatever that means) about not keeping units the player has no need for?

What is gamey about trying to train units (send them into combat and then send them home to repair) All combat missions are primarlaimd at inficting damage to the enemy. (We just acknowledge one side effect of "seeing the elephant" is added skill to the units that survive. )

Just as a commander in Rabaul/Noumea would try to influence what is sent under his control I try to gain certain ships (but at the cost of ships that are in fact already under my control-I was stating the opposite of the "bird in hand" style that keeps a ship no matter what condition it may be in.

Since UV only covers a small (important) area of Pacific War. It must be acknowledged that ships will come and go.

Caltone, just hang in there. If commitment level is high and there are many capital ships at home. count DD's available there. The AI sends major units with escort and will keep them till enough are on hand. You can speed up the process your self by keeping escorts handy at home (by lowering the damage required to send home-The smaller the ship the lower the damage that I will send home. (I keep CV damage below 20 but a DD with or 7-8 system damage with no escorts ready back at base but capital ships sitting idle is a chance to kill 2 birds-and realistic too. HQ say "you want this BB? send some escort"

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Post #: 16
Re: gamey? - 11/5/2002 9:23:09 AM   
Pawlock

 

Posts: 1041
Joined: 9/18/2002
From: U.K.
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mogami
[B]
Caltone, just hang in there. If commitment level is high and there are many capital ships at home. count DD's available there. The AI sends major units with escort and will keep them till enough are on hand. You can speed up the process your self by keeping escorts handy at home (by lowering the damage required to send home-The smaller the ship the lower the damage that I will send home. (I keep CV damage below 20 but a DD with or 7-8 system damage with no escorts ready back at base but capital ships sitting idle is a chance to kill 2 birds-and realistic too. HQ say "you want this BB? send some escort" [/B][/QUOTE]

Ooh, now this is something I did'nt know, lemme see if I got this right. If I had a BB at Pearl/Japan and my committment was MOD/HIGH but it had no escorts at said home base. Because it only likes to commit Capital ships in groups, by sending some escorts to Pearl/Japan this might help the likelyhood of the BB being committed? Did I get that right?

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Post #: 17
- 11/5/2002 9:31:34 AM   
Caltone


Posts: 651
Joined: 9/5/2001
From: Raleigh, NC USA
Status: offline 		Yep, you got it Pawlock, but I'm afraid that's not my problem :(

I still think the High command is just upset with me as I recently received a package from Tokyo containing a katana and a note saying: "do the honorable thing"

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Post #: 18
yep - 11/5/2002 9:32:05 AM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		Hi, Pawlock you got it right. Check and see if any DD's will arrive soon. If nothing within say 30 days then ships you return will be used for escort (damage under 10 DD turns around in approx 2-3 weeks)
Because I send DD's home from the very beginning I always have escorts available/soon at home


hint: you see that BB coming in 30 days? send some DD back now


Caltone :eek: :eek:

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Post #: 19
- 11/5/2002 9:45:59 AM   
Pawlock

 

Posts: 1041
Joined: 9/18/2002
From: U.K.
Status: offline 		Well, this is certainly good to know, Im down 1 BB already and Im facing at least 6 Jap BB's. The odds are not with me at the moment to say the least thanks to Spookies subs. Dont you just hate it when you get to within a cats whisker of port , some sub comes along and plugs you the final time?

Btw anyone else think trying to go head to head against Jap BB's, you may as well throw ping pong balls at them?

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Post #: 20
- 11/5/2002 11:35:32 AM   
Sonny

 

Posts: 2008
Joined: 4/3/2002
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Pawlock
[B]

You may have put a emote after your initial comment, but the intonation was there plain to see that you view this tactic as (waggles fingers in air "unsportsmanlike, underhand etc" ).

I think theres far too much name calling and sour grapes flying around when things either dont go peoples way, dont do things in purely historical/realistic fashion , or dont do things that they did'nt think of first.
At the end of the day this is a GAME, its not real life ,it will never be real life, it will never be truelly accurate. Ah yes I hear, its called a simulation so everything must be as ac
curate as possible. Yes accuracy is nice, historical comparisons is nice, it all adds up to the feeling of actually thinking your there. But sometimes you just cant model certain things ac
curatly, and have to develop systems that do a reasonable job.

Anyway I digress, what you are saying then is , when you send ships back to Japan/Pearl you can hand on your heart say you dont look at whats available and what may be committed? If you can, I dont believe you!!

The only difference is that some players choose to send thier ships back sooner rather than later, all a matter or preference. Its all a matter of strategy and tactics developed for use with this GAME.

I'll state again I dont go to the same level as Mogami, and for the life of me I cant see anything wrong with this.

Oh and no, I dont know a lot about the Pacific theatre of war, but again Im only playing a GAME. [/B][/QUOTE]

What is your opinion of the teleport feature in PacWar? Or how about the load-unload-load-unload feature which you used to be able to do to get transports loaded in one turn? To me it is much the same as sending unused ships back just to up the chances of getting something more useful.

Is it cheating? No, the game lets you do it and the game is the arbiter of the rules.

As far as name calling. No intention of it - that is why the emoticon. Strictly my opinion - you will do as you want.:)

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Post #: 21
- 11/5/2002 2:18:00 PM   
SoulBlazer

 

Posts: 839
Joined: 10/27/2002
From: Providence RI
Status: offline 		Hey, you forgot that the Washington ripped apart the Kirashima and turned her into a flaming wreck in about eight minutes during the Second Naval Battle of Guadalcanal. :) American BB's have better damage control, radar guided guns, and more accurate concentration of firepower from all of their guns then their Japanese counterparts. I'd throw one of my post-Pearl Harbor BB's aganist any Jap battleship in a fair fight. Most evidence suggests even a battleship of the Iowa class could have taken out a Yamato class ship in a one on one fight.

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Post #: 22
- 11/5/2002 6:52:19 PM   
Pawlock

 

Posts: 1041
Joined: 9/18/2002
From: U.K.
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Sonny
[B]

What is your opinion of the teleport feature in PacWar? Or how about the load-unload-load-unload feature which you used to be able to do to get transports loaded in one turn? To me it is much the same as sending unused ships back just to up the chances of getting something more useful.

Is it cheating? No, the game lets you do it and the game is the arbiter of the rules.

As far as name calling. No intention of it - that is why the emoticon. Strictly my opinion - you will do as you want.:) [/B][/QUOTE]

First off, you never answered my question:


[QUOTE]Anyway I digress, what you are saying then is , when you send ships back to Japan/Pearl you can hand on your heart say you dont look at whats available and what may be committed? If you can, I dont believe you!! [/QUOTE]

Looking at that again, can you not say when you send damaged ships back you do not look at your commitment? Most people would of course do this, the only difference is timing. So to say anyone who sends ships back is in fact being GAMEY, there can be no diferentation here, only a matter of to what degree you do it. So by your interpretation, most people who play UV are in fact being "gamey".

I wont say anymore on this as I believe Mogami has stated his case better than I could anyway.

As to "Pacwar" , would'nt know ,did not play it, although there has been mention you can do similar things with off map CV'S in UV. Not something I would do and perhaps you may have a better argument here, but this is not what I was debating about.

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Post #: 23
- 11/5/2002 7:11:57 PM   
Pawlock

 

Posts: 1041
Joined: 9/18/2002
From: U.K.
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by SoulBlazer
[B]Hey, you forgot that the Washington ripped apart the Kirashima and turned her into a flaming wreck in about eight minutes during the Second Naval Battle of Guadalcanal. :) American BB's have better damage control, radar guided guns, and more accurate concentration of firepower from all of their guns then their Japanese counterparts. I'd throw one of my post-Pearl Harbor BB's aganist any Jap battleship in a fair fight. Most evidence suggests even a battleship of the Iowa class could have taken out a Yamato class ship in a one on one fight. [/B][/QUOTE]

Its kinda funny you should use the Washington as an example, because unfortunatly for me it was the Washington that was on the recieving end, and a new one was ripped upon her. Then she tries to struggle home( in all fairness she would have sunk anyway sys and float dam both 90's) only to be given the final blow by a Jap sub waiting in port.

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Post #: 24
- 11/5/2002 8:54:31 PM   
Sonny

 

Posts: 2008
Joined: 4/3/2002
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Pawlock
[B]

First off, you never answered my question:




Looking at that again, can you not say when you send damaged ships back you do not look at your commitment? Most people would of course do this, the only difference is timing. So to say anyone who sends ships back is in fact being GAMEY, there can be no diferentation here, only a matter of to what degree you do it. So by your interpretation, most people who play UV are in fact being "gamey".

I wont say anymore on this as I believe Mogami has stated his case better than I could anyway.

As to "Pacwar" , would'nt know ,did not play it, although there has been mention you can do similar things with off map CV'S in UV. Not something I would do and perhaps you may have a better argument here, but this is not what I was debating about. [/B][/QUOTE]

Sorry, not to answer your question the first time.

I surely do look at whether there is a HIGH, MODERATE orLOW chance of getting ships released to the theater. Mostly I look at how long the ship will be away. This helps planning. However I don't send unused AVs back to Pearl just to see if the chance of release increases. To me this is like the theater commander getting a ship and saying "****, can't use it send it back". If that happened during the war then I retract what I have said (hence the reference to not knowing a lot of detail about the war in this theater) otherwise I stick to my statement that it is a manipulation of the game rather than just playing the game.:)

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Post #: 25
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