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A Couple Of Questions On Airframes? - 11/30/2011 7:15:49 AM   
Redsunrizing


Posts: 40
Joined: 11/15/2011
Status: offline 		A couple of questions for the experts on airframe production for scenario two, please;

# I was thinking of building 99 B5N1’s to use up the Nakajima Hikari engines, and was wondering if this was not too a wacky idea?

# Is it worth researching and building the D3A2, as it does not seem to be an improvement on the A1. Also the D4Y1 is due only 5 months after the D3A2, and would it not be better to put the research supply cost into the D4Y1, which is a better aircraft all-round?

Thanks Paul.


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RE: A Couple Of Questions On Airframes? - 11/30/2011 8:11:12 AM   
Puhis


Posts: 1737
Joined: 11/30/2008
From: Finland
Status: offline 		1. Don't build B5N1. There's no point building old plane models just because you have extra engines. It's waste of HI points.

2. If you play PDU off, you have to build at least some amount of D3A2 to be able to upgrade dive bomber units. But there's no point research Vals.  Like you said, it's better to research Jydy.

(in reply to Redsunrizing)
Post #: 2
RE: A Couple Of Questions On Airframes? - 11/30/2011 8:19:26 AM   
Grfin Zeppelin


Posts: 1515
Joined: 12/3/2007
From: Germany
Status: offline 		1. The above poster is generaly right but in the case of the Kate you can do that.

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Post #: 3
RE: A Couple Of Questions On Airframes? - 11/30/2011 9:46:55 AM   
n01487477


Posts: 4779
Joined: 2/21/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Puhis

1. Don't build B5N1. There's no point building old plane models just because you have extra engines. It's waste of HI points.

I agree.
quote:


2. If you play PDU off, you have to build at least some amount of D3A2 to be able to upgrade dive bomber units. But there's no point research Vals.  Like you said, it's better to research Jydy.


I post this as an alternative (not necessarily right), but a different view ... And I don't do this in the Econ Setup Doc (War Room)

Although they're pretty similar, you get a bit more speed with the A2.

Still, it depends on your Realistic R&D settings.
With Realistic R&D Off you could build an extra 4*30(0)A1 factories and as soon as they're repaired fully, upgrade them to the A2. So by the 7th Jan '42 you're getting 120 R&D points/mth. By mid-end of April, the A2 comes into service until the Judy. Is it worth the 120K supplies? Probably not, but given that it is this period where you can fight US CV's on your terms and later parity (as they have radar) - any advantage is necessary.

Having said that, R&D to the Judy is important too. And I'd be looking for a similar few months reduction to allow myself a little more time before the Essex class arrives.

Don't know if you've seen Mike Solli's AAR, or my Econ Setup

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Post #: 4
RE: A Couple Of Questions On Airframes? - 11/30/2011 9:59:19 AM   
Puhis


Posts: 1737
Joined: 11/30/2008
From: Finland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: n01487477

quote:


2. If you play PDU off, you have to build at least some amount of D3A2 to be able to upgrade dive bomber units. But there's no point research Vals.  Like you said, it's better to research Jydy.


I post this as an alternative (not necessarily right), but a different view ... And I don't do this in the Econ Setup Doc (War Room)

Although they're pretty similar, you get a bit more speed with the A2.


Disadvantage of D3A2 is range, normal range is just 5 hexes instead of 6. Losing one hex might not be worth the extra speed?

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Post #: 5
RE: A Couple Of Questions On Airframes? - 11/30/2011 12:04:22 PM   
SuluSea


Posts: 2358
Joined: 11/17/2006
Status: offline 		With PDU on--- I build the B5N1s and don't research or upgrade to D3A2, the theory is I don't view it as a waste of HI as the B5N1 help augment the torpedo bombers early so I don't have to overbuild B5N2 factories and may get put to use someday as kamikaze planes. Either way I'm wasting HI but in the case of the Nakajima Hikari engines atleast some are already on hand.

quote:

Disadvantage of D3A2 is range, normal range is just 5 hexes instead of 6


This is really a step back from my POV, I'd rather risk pilots and airframes than lose a carrier because of one hex distance.

< Message edited by SuluSea -- 11/30/2011 12:06:37 PM >

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Post #: 6
RE: A Couple Of Questions On Airframes? - 11/30/2011 12:31:42 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SuluSea

With PDU on--- I build the B5N1s and don't research or upgrade to D3A2, the theory is I don't view it as a waste of HI as the B5N1 help augment the torpedo bombers early so I don't have to overbuild B5N2 factories and may get put to use someday as kamikaze planes. Either way I'm wasting HI but in the case of the Nakajima Hikari engines atleast some are already on hand.

quote:

Disadvantage of D3A2 is range, normal range is just 5 hexes instead of 6


This is really a step back from my POV, I'd rather risk pilots and airframes than lose a carrier because of one hex distance.

I agree.

Build the B5N1s as a cheap late-war kamikaze. Keep your factory production low enough to work through the engines and then switch to something more useful.

Not a big fan of the D3A2. As previously stated, its range limits its value to flattops. The Judy is the way to go here.

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RE: A Couple Of Questions On Airframes? - 11/30/2011 12:35:52 PM   
n01487477


Posts: 4779
Joined: 2/21/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: SuluSea

With PDU on--- I build the B5N1s and don't research or upgrade to D3A2, the theory is I don't view it as a waste of HI as the B5N1 help augment the torpedo bombers early so I don't have to overbuild B5N2 factories and may get put to use someday as kamikaze planes. Either way I'm wasting HI but in the case of the Nakajima Hikari engines atleast some are already on hand.

quote:

Disadvantage of D3A2 is range, normal range is just 5 hexes instead of 6


This is really a step back from my POV, I'd rather risk pilots and airframes than lose a carrier because of one hex distance.

I agree.

Build the B5N1s as a cheap late-war kamikaze. Keep your factory production low enough to work through the engines and then switch to something more useful.

Not a big fan of the D3A2. As previously stated, its range limits its value to flattops. The Judy is the way to go here.

I must be the only one - who keeps on getting hit at range 1 ... With NY59Giants and Floyd within days of eachother

I withdraw my alternative. But in my own defence I did say I don't do it.

_____________________________

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EconDoc
TrackerAE
Tutes&Java

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Post #: 8
RE: A Couple Of Questions On Airframes? - 11/30/2011 12:46:24 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Redsunrizing

A couple of questions for the experts on airframe production for scenario two, please;

# I was thinking of building 99 B5N1’s to use up the Nakajima Hikari engines, and was wondering if this was not too a wacky idea?

# Is it worth researching and building the D3A2, as it does not seem to be an improvement on the A1. Also the D4Y1 is due only 5 months after the D3A2, and would it not be better to put the research supply cost into the D4Y1, which is a better aircraft all-round?

Thanks Paul.



My thoughts:

1. I didn't do this in the past, but I'm going to us up those engines on the B5N1 this go around. It's comparable to the B5N2. I'll us up the engines in ~6 months then switch the factory to something else. I will build the B5N2 at the same time. My total production for both models will be what I had planned on building for the N2 initially.

2. I'm going to focus on the Judy and skip the D3A2 for 2 reasons: Shorter range and only 5 months between models.

Mike

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Post #: 9
RE: A Couple Of Questions On Airframes? - 11/30/2011 12:57:09 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: n01487477

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: SuluSea

With PDU on--- I build the B5N1s and don't research or upgrade to D3A2, the theory is I don't view it as a waste of HI as the B5N1 help augment the torpedo bombers early so I don't have to overbuild B5N2 factories and may get put to use someday as kamikaze planes. Either way I'm wasting HI but in the case of the Nakajima Hikari engines atleast some are already on hand.

quote:

Disadvantage of D3A2 is range, normal range is just 5 hexes instead of 6


This is really a step back from my POV, I'd rather risk pilots and airframes than lose a carrier because of one hex distance.

I agree.

Build the B5N1s as a cheap late-war kamikaze. Keep your factory production low enough to work through the engines and then switch to something more useful.

Not a big fan of the D3A2. As previously stated, its range limits its value to flattops. The Judy is the way to go here.

I must be the only one - who keeps on getting hit at range 1 ... With NY59Giants and Floyd within days of eachother

I withdraw my alternative. But in my own defence I did say I don't do it.

I've had carrier battles where 5/6 hexes didn't make any difference at all (i.e., the battle was less than 5 hexes range) and where 5/6 hexes was critically important to the outcome of the battle. Having a short-legged platform like the D3A2 limits your tactical options unnecessarily, in my opinion.

It's like being stuck with (shudders) those Devastator torpedo bombers. A potential game changer.

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Post #: 10
RE: A Couple Of Questions On Airframes? - 11/30/2011 1:19:24 PM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline 		I build out the B5N1.  performance differences to the B5N2 are unnoticeable to me in game.  Since the engines are already built, you get them at 50% discount.

Hate the D3A2.  The D3A1 is already shorter range than the B5's, and to go another hex shorter?  Sorry, no can do. 

The D4Y1 now just holds the range of the D3A2, but at least it has a bomb that doesn't bounce. 

Really have to wait until the D4Y3 now for a good DB, but by then the Grace is only 4 months away ... with REAL range.

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Pax

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Post #: 11
RE: A Couple Of Questions On Airframes? - 11/30/2011 9:23:51 PM   
Redsunrizing


Posts: 40
Joined: 11/15/2011
Status: offline 		Thanks for all the input,

and I will;

#building 99 B5N1’s.

#not building and research the D3A2.



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Post #: 12
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