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Attacking and invading an enemy colony but still peace!

 
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Attacking and invading an enemy colony but still peace! - 11/29/2011 11:39:19 PM   
ASHBERY76


Posts: 2136
Joined: 10/10/2001
From: England
Status: offline 		Should this not be an automatic DOW? After watching the Das video he did just that and the Dhayut were still asking for attacks to be stopped.I would think invasion should be an automatic DOW.

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RE: Attacking and invading an enemy colony but still pe... - 11/30/2011 10:27:28 AM   
Mysterius


Posts: 57
Joined: 3/29/2010
From: Angers, France
Status: offline 		Well that's the whole point. A war in itself is merely a diplomatic situation.
You can, however, be in a "state of war" without being officially in open conflict. Much like in real world.

The ennemy will retaliate tho, and eventually declare war.

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RE: Attacking and invading an enemy colony but still pe... - 11/30/2011 3:18:06 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline 		Yes, invading the homeworld should really trigger war. I saw the same thing in Das123's AAR and we are investigating.

Regards,

- Erik

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RE: Attacking and invading an enemy colony but still pe... - 11/30/2011 7:18:58 PM   
Canute0

 

Posts: 616
Joined: 4/30/2010
From: Germany
Status: offline 		But invading just a colony just decrease your relations. Bad relations can lead to the war.
At this way you can force this empire to declare war on you, and you maybe dont need to fight the whole defence pact like you would do when You would declare war on them.
Or you can snap out some Colonies from your best friends from time to time.

Btw. it is normal when you invade a colony with Troops + Troop Generals, that the Troop generals get ported to the nearest own colony when a War start during the invasion ?


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RE: Attacking and invading an enemy colony but still pe... - 11/30/2011 7:35:08 PM   
ASHBERY76


Posts: 2136
Joined: 10/10/2001
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Canute

But invading just a colony just decrease your relations. Bad relations can lead to the war.
At this way you can force this empire to declare war on you, and you maybe dont need to fight the whole defence pact like you would do when You would declare war on them.
Or you can snap out some Colonies from your best friends from time to time.

Btw. it is normal when you invade a colony with Troops + Troop Generals, that the Troop generals get ported to the nearest own colony when a War start during the invasion ?




The A.I should be on a full war footing when you are taking colonies and reacting.This is just common sence.

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RE: Attacking and invading an enemy colony but still pe... - 11/30/2011 7:53:11 PM   
Locarnus


Posts: 287
Joined: 5/30/2010
From: Earth, Sol
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ASHBERY76

The A.I should be on a full war footing when you are taking colonies and reacting.This is just common sence.


Well, it isnt, as (colonial/imperial/whatever) history clearly shows.

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RE: Attacking and invading an enemy colony but still pe... - 11/30/2011 7:55:56 PM   
ASHBERY76


Posts: 2136
Joined: 10/10/2001
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Locarnus


quote:

ORIGINAL: ASHBERY76

The A.I should be on a full war footing when you are taking colonies and reacting.This is just common sence.


Well, it isnt, as (colonial/imperial/whatever) history clearly shows.


Last time I checked this is a galactic scale game and not the British Empire fighting stone age tribes.And more important this is a game that needs the A.I not to be stupid.

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RE: Attacking and invading an enemy colony but still pe... - 11/30/2011 8:02:15 PM   
Locarnus


Posts: 287
Joined: 5/30/2010
From: Earth, Sol
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ASHBERY76


quote:

ORIGINAL: Locarnus


quote:

ORIGINAL: ASHBERY76

The A.I should be on a full war footing when you are taking colonies and reacting.This is just common sence.


Well, it isnt, as (colonial/imperial/whatever) history clearly shows.


Last time I checked this is a galactic scale game and not the British Empire fighting stone age tribes.And more important this is a game that needs the A.I not to be stupid.


Sorry, should have elaborated.
I was not just referring to eg the British pushing some natives. Also the colonial powers frequently snatched colonies from other colonial powers, without the "parent" countries/whole empires going to all out war.
It would on the contrary for the AI be stupid to go to war over a small colony, when the other empire has 10 times the military power...
Of course if they dont stop with the 1 colony, it is a different matter, but that would be simulated by the negative modifiers piling up.

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RE: Attacking and invading an enemy colony but still pe... - 11/30/2011 8:17:06 PM   
ASHBERY76


Posts: 2136
Joined: 10/10/2001
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Locarnus
Sorry, should have elaborated.
I was not just referring to eg the British pushing some natives. Also the colonial powers frequently snatched colonies from other colonial powers, without the "parent" countries/whole empires going to all out war.
It would on the contrary for the AI be stupid to go to war over a small colony, when the other empire has 10 times the military power...
Of course if they dont stop with the 1 colony, it is a different matter, but that would be simulated by the negative modifiers piling up.


You are comparing the age of sail era to advanced Alien civilizations on a planet scale with FTL travel,instant communation and control and thinking the rules would apply the same,heh funny.And yes the A.I should not let powerfull empires take over their planets and do nothing because negative modifiers do not mean **** with bribes.

< Message edited by ASHBERY76 -- 11/30/2011 8:19:38 PM >

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RE: Attacking and invading an enemy colony but still pe... - 11/30/2011 10:05:19 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline 		Snatching a border colony is one matter. Invading the homeworld (as in Das123's AAR) is another. The latter should automatically trigger a war, the former should in most cases.

Regards,

- Erik

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Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC



For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

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RE: Attacking and invading an enemy colony but still pe... - 11/30/2011 10:06:59 PM   
Brynder

 

Posts: 14
Joined: 8/27/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ASHBERY76

quote:

ORIGINAL: Locarnus
Sorry, should have elaborated.
I was not just referring to eg the British pushing some natives. Also the colonial powers frequently snatched colonies from other colonial powers, without the "parent" countries/whole empires going to all out war.
It would on the contrary for the AI be stupid to go to war over a small colony, when the other empire has 10 times the military power...
Of course if they dont stop with the 1 colony, it is a different matter, but that would be simulated by the negative modifiers piling up.


You are comparing the age of sail era to advanced Alien civilizations on a planet scale with FTL travel,instant communation and control and thinking the rules would apply the same,heh funny.And yes the A.I should not let powerfull empires take over their planets and do nothing because negative modifiers do not mean **** with bribes.


Actually people are not so wrong in comparing the age of sail era, let me elaborate why.

We are same species and we have not yet met on any large scale an advanced xenos species that would have discernibly different thought patterns from our own so naturally we still tend to think that all sentient species think the same way. Only experience of a truly alien thinking would allow us to do otherwise and then simulate that other in a game such as this.

Next: What inspires people into making these kinds of games in detail level - I mean where do they get the ideas they implement? Some examples:

We have this new class of ships called carriers... Well, sounds to me like somebody must have read their history books starting from USS Birmingham that was the first vessel to launch an aircraft to 1918 HMS Argus becoming the first dedicated carrier and from then on the WWII Pacific and Atlantic battles and technology to this day. (This game is full of analogies (just like any other game.))

Borders in space? Well, anybody heard of territorial waters, exclusive economic zone and international waters? Analogy again. In popular SF Star Trek comes into mind. To boldly go where no man has gone before. -> alliances and sectors.

Fighters? Wright brothers and the rest is history. Especially since Star Wars starfighter scenes were based on WWII figher/bomber combatcam footage. BSG had fighters too. Then came the B5 in large scale.

Racial policies? Ever heard of Boer wars? Brits I believe were the first people in modern times to implement concentration camps in large scale - then somebody else took that idea a litttle bit further into racial policy of wait a second... extermination, which we are able to do in the game if we desire. Analogy again. Surely civilized space faring humans couldn't or wouldn't do that, we'd be as peaceful as Winnie the Pooh.

Penal colonies? Australia and the Brits again come into mind very strongly (gave me an idea to test out something later). In popular SF Star Trek had this first I believe.

Pirates? Well, this goes far far back in time even before the age of sail into the age of oars. Pirates in the later times were the inspiration for the first space pirates -> Age of sail analogy. There are modern sea pirates as well.

Colonization: The Romans come into mind here. How did they do it... Well I keep reading that it happened so that first there was a war around in anyplace. Some legions went in and after a while the soldiers who retired from the legions were given land from nearby. They took their families there too... And if you have alrady a sizable amount of said veterans... Well, they are not going to be afraid of a little bit of war going on. Nor the rulers who are more concerned of unruly population back at home. Same could be applied here. An analogy again.

The stories you have read about SF in space are based on known principles, the difference is in scale really. And medium. Space is awful lot less thick than the combustion leftover that we call water.

Bring me an advanced Alien who has distinctively different thought patterns from our own and then we can really make this game THE most original one in that sense instead of mirroring our own known ways of doing things the analogy way.

< Message edited by Brynder -- 11/30/2011 10:13:26 PM >

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RE: Attacking and invading an enemy colony but still pe... - 12/2/2011 6:50:29 AM   
elliotg


Posts: 3597
Joined: 9/10/2007
Status: offline 		This is fixed in the next update (1.7.0.4) so that invading a colony is much more likely to result in an instant declaration of war from the target empire. Invading small colonies will not necessarily provoke war, but that will likely occur.

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