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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Steel Panthers World At War & Mega Campaigns >> Cavallery

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Cavallery - 1/9/2001 4:58:00 PM

frank1970

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Joined: 9/1/2000
From: Bayern
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I think that cavallery units in SPWAW are not used the right way: The riders are always on horseback, they are pinned on horseback, they attack on horseback. That is absolute nonsense. Every rider would jump down from his horse to fight or hide. Would it be possible to build a light infantrysquad of say 7 men and a transport unit called "horses" and arm them with some rifles. The cavallery units lost about a third of their men because of horse holding.

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- 1/9/2001 6:07:00 PM

Igor

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Joined: 12/11/2000
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You're quite right that they are used incorrectly; but it isn't really a case of them not being used as dragoons. For the most part, the problem is that they are being assigned wrong. Generally speaking, European cavalry only appeared on the battlefield in rear areas when fighting partisans; or on the Eastern Front where the Soviets used them in much the same way as motorized or mechanized forces (fire brigades, exploitation forces, and such like) because they didn't have enough of either. In both cases, they stayed mounted because the mobility outweighed the threat. Besides, as Dragoons they would keep losing all their horses to mortars and suchlike every time the enemy spotted the largely immobile handlers; and I'm not sure the game engine can handle transport which can't be rallied, and takes casualties like infantry instead of as a single object. Take them into a long or a generated campaign, however, and cavalry gets assigned to battles as if it were infantry; into tactical situations for which it is completely unsuited. Basically, a Cossack is asking to be regularly slaughtered unless he keeps buying a lot of support troops to hide behind. As for the PTO; I'm playing a generated campaign as a PLA commander. There's roughly a company of cavalry in my light regimental force; and they do very good work on the flanks or as a reserve. I frankly have no use for them as dragoons; the horses would have to be left so far to the rear that the men would just be another bunch of light riflemen (an MOS the Chinese aren't short of) which cost a heck of a lot to replace. The opposition, whether the KMT or the Japanese, lack that certain element of firepower you see in the ETO which makes stand up battles so hazardous to horseflesh...so I can get away with this. [This message has been edited by Igor (edited January 09, 2001).]

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- 1/9/2001 7:25:00 PM

ncpanther

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Joined: 5/22/2000
From: NC
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I use Cav on the flanks or as recon units to get to rear areas quickly. Also in a PBEM game I recently had a plt of NS Cav turn back an armored attack on my flank. I only lost 1 sqd to this attack. So Cav is a good choice if used properly. ------------------ NC Airborne Sappers Lead the way!! SAPPERS ATTACK!!!!

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- 1/9/2001 7:51:00 PM

Larry Holt

Posts: 1969
Joined: 3/31/2000
From: Atlanta, GA 30068
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There was some discussion about calvary about a year ago. Matrix noted the incorrectness of calvary being mounted all the time but also said that seperating the pople and horses was too difficult to simulate and program. ------------------ An old soldier but not yet a faded one. OK, maybe just a bit faded.

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- 1/10/2001 6:36:00 AM

Kevin G

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From: Phoenix, AZ USA
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That's right, in the early version we had cavlary horses and troopers that dismounted. The problem was that the horses proceeded to attack without their riders! It would have been good if we could have had them immobilzed when they weren't loaded, but it was decided that the old, SP method would stay. Incidentally, there's an account in Carrell's "Hitler Moves East" of a couple of German tanks/sp guns dealing with an attack of Soviet cavalry and tanks. It was a blood bath. I don't have it in front of me (am at work) but it was probably sometime in 41. Kevin

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- 1/10/2001 7:15:00 AM

BlitzSS

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From: wasChicagoLand, now DC
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The Poles gliantly banged on the PZIs with their swords in 39.

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- 1/10/2001 9:36:00 AM

troopie

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quote:

Originally posted by Kevin G: That's right, in the early version we had cavlary horses and troopers that dismounted. The problem was that the horses proceeded to attack without their riders! It would have been good if we could have had them immobilzed when they weren't loaded, but it was decided that the old, SP method would stay. Incidentally, there's an account in Carrell's "Hitler Moves East" of a couple of German tanks/sp guns dealing with an attack of Soviet cavalry and tanks. It was a blood bath. I don't have it in front of me (am at work) but it was probably sometime in 41. Kevin

Horses attacking without their riders? That would have been something to see! troopie ------------------ Pamwe Chete

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- 1/11/2001 7:23:00 AM

Grumble

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"The Poles gliantly banged on the PZIs with their swords in 39" Nope. They actually dismounted to engage. This story was the invention (or a misreported conversation) of an Italian Journalist covering the invasion. There were some accounts from troops who "were there", but they were unverifiable "war stories".

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- 1/11/2001 3:32:00 PM

frank1970

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From: Bayern
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I have read a lot about the invasion of Poland. Several sources speak about cavallery attacks (on horseback) on German armored forces. BUT these attacks were only conducted (?) because the cavallery units were in a very ugly situation and wanted to flee. They got on their horses, and wanted to get through artillery fire or tank lines. There was (as I know) NO real attack on armor by cavallery in Poland. Maybe they got contact with armor troops when they attacked infantry that was enforced by tanks.

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- 1/11/2001 3:51:00 PM

AmmoSgt

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From: Redstone Arsenal Al
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hey i got a real dumb idea but heck who knows it might work ...have a 7 or 8 man section infantry and a 2 or 3 man section infantry and a 10 horse section have the 7 or 8 man section have regular infantry movement or whatever is considered appropiate have the 2 or 3 man section have movement 0 (or very small movement ) but have them have a carry capaicty sufficent to load the horses onto the small infantry section (i know it sounds wierd ) have the horses have normal horse speed and load capeability to load the above two infantry sections infantry loaded on horses = cavalry Infantry dismounted with horses loaded on small section = dismounted infantry with small section holding horses set values so any large infantry section can rally horses but set horses low so if the rout/retreat they can't rally back themselves set small infantry for limited rally maybe ???

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- 1/11/2001 6:15:00 PM

frank1970

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From: Bayern
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Sounds weird but good and logical. But I am afraid you will not have enough room in the OoB to create these three (or two) units.

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- 1/11/2001 7:34:00 PM

Niuszy

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From: Katowice, Silesia, Poland
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quote:

Originally posted by Frank: There was (as I know) NO real attack on armor by cavallery in Poland. Maybe they got contact with armor troops when they attacked infantry that was enforced by tanks.

That's right. Here: http://mops.uci.agh.edu.pl/~rzepinsk/1939/html/cav.htm you can find something about it. Greetings Marcin

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- 1/12/2001 12:04:00 AM

Thornado

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From: Uppsala, Sweden
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Had a nice little Hotseat-play with a friend, playing Spain both of us. 1936 I think. My strategy was buying quite a few Armored Cars and just being safe behind the armor and mow down the rebels. My friend bought lots of Cavalry and literally charged over my troops and boy! where they good at charging my armored cars! Of course I could gun down the first two squads but then... Crushing defeat against spanish cavalry (and they ruled in the forest! Talk about full speed ahead in the woods!) ------------------ _______________________ Thornado - You'll never know what hit you -

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