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Food and water - 12/2/2011 10:35:15 AM   
hein

 

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I'd like to see more micro management in DW like introduce the concept of food and water in the gameplay.

- food can be a ressource or can be produce in planets by facilities
- Water can be found everywhere (commune ressource ?)
- different race need different food and amount of water
- growth rate of population must be fonction of food and water avalaible on the planet.
Post #: 1
RE: Food and water - 12/2/2011 4:36:24 PM   
MasterChief


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Interesting idea. It would add a level of immersion to the game and provide some uniqueness to planets. It could give the game a “Civilization” feel.

However, I would hope that, if implemented, this could be regulated to automatic control of the colony governor. I’m so micro managed out as is!

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Post #: 2
RE: Food and water - 12/2/2011 4:41:58 PM   
Fideach

 

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with something like this, you could handle it in an abstract way. Making food\water supplies be something you build up or lose like you do with money. Have it influence by building of farms or whatever else you want to go with on planets. Later tech have orbital green house components for farming you could put on stations. Would make planets that are your primary source of food be more important.

Could also just skip calling it food\water, and call it "supplies". Supplies covering food, water, ammo, general goods the populace uses, etc.

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RE: Food and water - 12/2/2011 4:44:12 PM   
Bingeling

 

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It would be silly. They are space faring... Humans today experiment with growing food in space, and recycling water is no big deal either. If you can zoom around between stars, this is the least of your worries.

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Post #: 4
RE: Food and water - 12/2/2011 4:53:55 PM   
MasterChief


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bingeling

It would be silly. They are space faring... Humans today experiment with growing food in space, and recycling water is no big deal either. If you can zoom around between stars, this is the least of your worries.


Agree to an extent. As humans we can build hydroponics and recycling water, though inefficient, is feasible. However, this would only support limited populations. Reliable and robust population growth requires a food and water surplus.

Is it something worth modeling in the game… does it provide enough “flavor” to be worth the programing hassle? Not so sure. It would not be a priority for me. I WOULD MUCH RATHER SEE THE ABILITY TO PLACE SYSTEMS OFF LIMITS TO AI CONTROLLED SHIPS. Oops, did I mention that in other posts as well?

(in reply to Bingeling)
Post #: 5
RE: Food and water - 12/2/2011 5:09:17 PM   
Shark7


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Shameless self promotion.

Original Post: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2727075&mpage=1&key=food�

We all know it, we all do it, and we all hate it...the dreaded colony rush. That burning need to grab every possible livable planet before some one else can get it. This is the one single thing that dominates almost every 4X game out there...how to grow as fast as possible, and it completely limits strategy.

The problem is that most 4X games simply assume that if you colonize a planet, it can produce enough food for your species...despite the fact that its as desolate as the Mars and hotter than Mercury. Sure our technology might allow us to build hydroponic facilities, but these will never produce enough food to support billions of people. Very simply put, you need fields of rich soil, plenty of water, and just the right temperature to grow enough food to feed an entire planets population. And colonies on less than ideal worlds would rely heavily on food imports.

Of course there are caveats. As the population of an ideal planet grows, its ability to produce food is diminished. The very land we need for housing is also essential for growing the food we need, be it grain or beef. Simply put, the larger the population grows, the more it compounds food shortage problems. Growing population has the double effect of reducing the amount of arable land to grow the food, and increasing the demand on the land that is available.

None of this is taken into consideration in any 4X game, at least not to the extent it should be. But I have an idea of how to do it.

1. We need a new resource type known as food. Not a general food category, but a number of different resources that all qualify. For examples:


Grain
Meat
Fish
Vegetation
Fungus
Bacteria


2. Each race would have to have a defined food need. Even mechanoids require energy and lubricants...IE they need 'food'.


Carnivore
Herbivore
Omnivore


3. Each race would have an ideal, acceptable and poor planet type for farming their food. For Shandar this would be a volcanic planet, while Humans need conitnental etc. This would require a simple table showing the colonizable planet types along with a 0 = ideal, 1 = acceptable and 2 = poor rating, example follows:

Race--------Continental---- Marshy----Desert----Ocean----Ice----Volcanic

Human..........0..............1.........2.........1.......2.........2
Securan........1..............1.........0.........2.......2.........2
Shandar........1..............2.........1.........2.......2.........0

etc

As you can see, I basically make 1 ideal, 2 acceptable, and 3 poor for each race in this example.

4. Planet productivity: This is going to be dependant on several factors. One thing I want to point out is that while some planets come with natural food sources (IE fauna), some of them require development. Also, not all the land of a planet is going to be farmable. At best, 50-60% of the land will be arable...more likely less, and the more population you have on the planet, the lower that percentage goes I'm going to break this down into several parts to explain my ideas:

A. Natural food sources: These exist on the planet at discovery. Planets can have 1 or all. These show up just like current resources do, and are gatherable via mining ships and stations. Examples per planet type.


Continental: Grains, Vegetation, Meats, Bacterial, Fungus, Fish
Marshy Swamp: Meats, Fish, Vegetation, Bacteria, Fungus
Ocean: Fish, Vegetation, Bacteria, Fungus
Desert: Meats, Fungus, Bacteria
Ice: Meats, Fish, Bacteria
Volcanic: Meats, Bacteria, Fungus


B. The food sources your race can develop. These are farms that develop much as the population growth does. Requiring time and I suggest it grow slowly. This is based on home planet type as well. Using the same table above, you get the idea....just because a planet does not have it at discovery, it can and will still develop the resource as your planet develops.

C. A check box on each planet that allows the player (and a set of default settings for the AI based on planet type, quality and size) that tells the game that this planet is designated an agrarian world to supply food to my population and capes the population at 33-40% of default max. So if a planet could support 10 billion population normally, then with it designated as agrarian it would max out at no more than 4 billion people. There also needs to be a policy that allows the player to set the parameters and have the AI auto-designate planets on colonization. This could depend on the arable land available: IE if arable land >= X units, then designate an agrarian world.

D. The arable land formula: Arable land = ((Planet size/2) * Quality) - (25 * Planet type modifier per species (0 for ideal, 1 for acceptable 2 for poor). Example 1 Planet Eden is a 400 size 100% quality continental colonized by the humans. So ((400/2) * 1) - (25 * 0) = 200 units of arable land. Example 2: Planet Oceana is a size 240 ocean planet of 80% quality colonized by the Shandar, so ((240 / 2) * .8) - (25 * 2) = 46 arable units. This planet can not produce a great amount of food and will likely need imports. Example 3: Planet Dystopia is a size 150 volcanic world of 30% quality colonized by the Sluken (for this example we will call it an acceptable planet), so ((150 / 2) * .3) - (25 * 1 ) = -2.5...since we can't have a negative, we simply call this 0. This planet will completely rely on food imports.

E. Population effects on arable land available. Too keep it simple, every 1 billion population would reduce the arable land by 5 units. So planets would see a reduction in food produced as their populations grow...and can get to the point where even a 100 quality large planet can require food imports due to using up all its arable land. IE a 100 quality, 400 size ideal planet that grows to 20 billion population looses 100 units (50%) of its food production capacity...this on top of an increased demand.

F. Food production and use. While those wiser than I would set the levels I will give you some quick examples (and how this ends up balancing in the end). Lets say each unit of arable land can produce 10 units of food. So a planet marked as agrarian that has 200 units of food (and will not grow about 40% of its population and is currently at 4 billion) will produce 2000 food units per unit of time (to be determined). Each 1 billion population requires 150 units of food per unit of time. The planet in the example produces more than it needs...it produces 2000 but only needs to use 600) so it can ship to other planets. Now lets say the population continues to grow...to 10 billion. Now this planet needs 1500 units of food per unit of time to feed the populace...reducing its exports to 500 units of food per unit of time.

This is all well and good, but we also have the capital planet that had only 170 arable units to begin with, and grew to 25 billion population, losing 125 of its arable units...leaving a total food growing capacity of 45 units or 450 units of food per unit of time...unfortunately it needs 3750 food, meaning it has to import 3300 food. So you need 2 agrarian worlds of limited population to support this one.

G. Obviously, technology would increase food production over time. A whole high tech tree could be developed for this.

5. If you run low on food for your populace they riot and rebel. The also begin to die off if it continues. In this way, it behooves you to develop your agriculture before trying to colonize non ideal worlds or to rush colonization.


You are probably wondering how this actually slows the colony rush. If done wrong, it doesn't, it just adds more complexity. If done right, where the arable land is developed into producing land is done at a very, very slow place it would. Basically, the speed of agricultural development needs to be at a rate that it takes years to fully develop the land and reach max production. The extremely slow farm development speed is key, if that is not present there is no point at all in implementing a system such as this. In other words, the availability of food would be the colony rush limiting factor.

Also, it doesn't have to be this in depth, it could be a simple 'food' resource and abstract it. Still the key is keeping food production development slow to limit the ability to grab additional colonies. One would need to develop farms before taking new planets. AI would limit by seeing if enough food is on hand.

And just because you have enough food for everyone, it doesn't mean you have it where you need it, you would have to devote more merchant ships to moving food. Logistics would act as a secondary limiting factor. Hungry colonist rebel, so going too far or too fast would result in losing control of the colony due to lack of food production or deliveries.

Its something to think about and discuss.


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RE: Food and water - 12/2/2011 5:10:32 PM   
Nedrear


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Where is the point? Why do you think a planet has a "max" population? Or do you really think 15000M is the real limit of our or other planets? If you could have supplies and build a starving coruscant with 200000M people that would be stupid in more than one way.
There is already a subtle food supply for planets. They just feed themselves as it is. MAYBE one could consider to reduce the max population on certain planets to produce a ressource called "supplies" to let other planets grow further... still unnecessary.

Besides insectoid would simply "herd" and "feed on" their enslaved races... or why do you think they have a X year extermination cycle? They don't waste the food they eat them!

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RE: Food and water - 12/2/2011 5:18:50 PM   
Nedrear


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7
Of course there are caveats. As the population of an ideal planet grows, its ability to produce food is diminished. The very land we need for housing is also essential for growing the food we need, be it grain or beef. Simply put, the larger the population grows, the more it compounds food shortage problems. Growing population has the double effect of reducing the amount of arable land to grow the food, and increasing the demand on the land that is available.


THAT is wrong. You expect them to live like we are now. But actually we are only stealing places the sun reaches... or in other words we build ON earth. If we build subterrainian cities, fueld by sunlight through collector areas and only the farmers live on top, e can house huge populations while keeping farmland. And you know which city plans exactly that now because houses are limited to two stores? Mexico City!

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RE: Food and water - 12/2/2011 5:25:09 PM   
Fideach

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nedrear

Where is the point? Why do you think a planet has a "max" population? Or do you really think 15000M is the real limit of our or other planets? If you could have supplies and build a starving coruscant with 200000M people that would be stupid in more than one way.
There is already a subtle food supply for planets. They just feed themselves as it is. MAYBE one could consider to reduce the max population on certain planets to produce a ressource called "supplies" to let other planets grow further... still unnecessary.

Besides insectoid would simply "herd" and "feed on" their enslaved races... or why do you think they have a X year extermination cycle? They don't waste the food they eat them!


The point would be to add depth I'd say. At the moment, planets are nothing but round things you protect so they give you money. You have no influence over them, in any real direct way. Indirectly, you influence them through taxes, and making sure they have a good governor and luxuries. Even sometimes a space station to provide bonuses from recreation and medical components.
But by adding supply requirements, you would make it harder to spam colonies, make colonies matter more, especially if a system was used letting you make certain planets specialized in providing supplies for the empire. Through additional facilities you could build. Facilities that effect supplies, mood, rebellion threshold, etc.
With supplies you could also add some depth to colonizing. You would need X amount of supplies to feed this new population till it becomes self-sustaining.. but lets say you colonize a low quality planet, it may always be a drain on the supplies, but it would let them still produce tax revenue eventually as you support them through external supplies and they develop an economy, if never enough farms on there world. You'd get money from the taxes on the private sector selling them the food alone if anything.
There is a lot more the game could add, in abstract ways, even in automatic ways, to make the game have more depth in good ways.


< Message edited by Fideach -- 12/2/2011 5:26:18 PM >

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Post #: 9
RE: Food and water - 12/2/2011 5:29:09 PM   
Shark7


Posts: 7937
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nedrear


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7
Of course there are caveats. As the population of an ideal planet grows, its ability to produce food is diminished. The very land we need for housing is also essential for growing the food we need, be it grain or beef. Simply put, the larger the population grows, the more it compounds food shortage problems. Growing population has the double effect of reducing the amount of arable land to grow the food, and increasing the demand on the land that is available.


THAT is wrong. You expect them to live like we are now. But actually we are only stealing places the sun reaches... or in other words we build ON earth. If we build subterrainian cities, fueld by sunlight through collector areas and only the farmers live on top, e can house huge populations while keeping farmland. And you know which city plans exactly that now because houses are limited to two stores? Mexico City!


No I don't. Its simple a given that eventually you run out of room. We can live on large space stations and use all the land and sub-subterranean spaces to grow food, and you still eventually hit a productivity limit. While you can certainly feed more people that way (hey, there is a research tree for you...production increases) you still hit a point of diminishing returns. Its very much like a bell curve...there comes a point when the gain is negligible for the energy spent to get the gain.

Unless your species is non-corporeal pure energy, you can only support so many people with so many resources.

It doesn't have to be a hard cap, in the way you are thinking, but rather a soft-cap...very much like a bell curve.

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Post #: 10
RE: Food and water - 12/2/2011 5:35:04 PM   
colonyan

 

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Food/Commodities are absolute necessities.
Civilization good enough to space faring DOES have means to plan ahead to produce for current needs and future needs.
Devs here know already that asking to manage those aspects add too little or almost nothing to game play, I believe.

Even more so, Dev's could have made civil sector/population required constant supply of resource such as steel as well
but they didn't do that neither to create even more fierce competition for strategic resource source.

Only ships/high development rating/faster growth which has large impact on game play requires strategic/luxury resources.
Simply put, more does not mean always better.
Current detail level is pretty good.




(in reply to Nedrear)
Post #: 11
RE: Food and water - 12/2/2011 5:41:12 PM   
ASHBERY76


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From: England
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Food and water is too low ball and fiddly for this scale and I doubt Elliot would want to code it anyway for an expansoin pack.Galactic Emperors do not buld farms.

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RE: Food and water - 12/2/2011 5:42:30 PM   
Shark7


Posts: 7937
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
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quote:

ORIGINAL: colonyan

Food/Commodities are absolute necessities.
Civilization good enough to space faring DOES have means to plan ahead to produce for current needs and future needs.
Devs here know already that asking to manage those aspects add too little or almost nothing to game play, I believe.

Even more so, Dev's could have made civil sector/population required constant supply of resource such as steel as well
but they didn't do that neither to create even more fierce competition for strategic resource source.

Only ships/high development rating/faster growth which has large impact on game play requires strategic/luxury resources.
Simply put, more does not mean always better.
Current detail level is pretty good.






What you run into is people like me who want a far more robust civilian sector AKA a working economy. I'm one who's advocated having to take the resources, refine them, then transport the refined goods from planet to planet. Example you take in steel to a factory planet, steel is turned into widgets, widgets get shipped to the population for consumption, etc.

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RE: Food and water - 12/2/2011 5:48:45 PM   
Fideach

 

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I don't really care in the long run what system is used, as long as something is added to make it harder to just colonize everything in sight beyond doing the research for the planet types and paying for the colony ship.
There should be some resource drain, one way or another when you initially build a new colony and they have to develop.
This would put human players on more of an even ground with AI Empires, along with adding more strategy to deciding what, when, and where to colonize.
Would also make fighting over certain planets\systems more important, along with making bombardment of planets more of a harder choice. Since do you want to destroy the pristine world you are fighting for, or does the planet not matter and you just want the annoying round projector of enemy influence destroyed. As the bombardment of it would add to the cost of supporting it, if you colonize it. Through additional supplies\money to support the colony and building of a terraforming station to fix the damage.

Edit: clarifying what I said.

< Message edited by Fideach -- 12/2/2011 5:49:25 PM >

(in reply to Shark7)
Post #: 14
RE: Food and water - 12/2/2011 6:21:16 PM   
colonyan

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7
quote:

ORIGINAL: colonyan
Food/Commodities are absolute necessities.
Civilization good enough to space faring DOES have means to plan ahead to produce for current needs and future needs.
Devs here know already that asking to manage those aspects add too little or almost nothing to game play, I believe.

Even more so, Dev's could have made civil sector/population required constant supply of resource such as steel as well
but they didn't do that neither to create even more fierce competition for strategic resource source.

Only ships/high development rating/faster growth which has large impact on game play requires strategic/luxury resources.
Simply put, more does not mean always better.
Current detail level is pretty good.

What you run into is people like me who want a far more robust civilian sector AKA a working economy. I'm one who's advocated having to take the resources, refine them, then transport the refined goods from planet to planet. Example you take in steel to a factory planet, steel is turned into widgets, widgets get shipped to the population for consumption, etc.


I liked playing game like Patrician IV and Tropico Series. I play also Simutrans.
In DW, processing of resource only occurs at construction yard.
Raw resource into components which are used to assemble units, the games actors.
That's not good enough for you..? For game which also entails diplomacy and combat,
this is just enough of complexity in my humble opinion.




(in reply to Shark7)
Post #: 15
RE: Food and water - 12/2/2011 7:18:55 PM   
Shark7


Posts: 7937
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
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quote:

ORIGINAL: colonyan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7
quote:

ORIGINAL: colonyan
Food/Commodities are absolute necessities.
Civilization good enough to space faring DOES have means to plan ahead to produce for current needs and future needs.
Devs here know already that asking to manage those aspects add too little or almost nothing to game play, I believe.

Even more so, Dev's could have made civil sector/population required constant supply of resource such as steel as well
but they didn't do that neither to create even more fierce competition for strategic resource source.

Only ships/high development rating/faster growth which has large impact on game play requires strategic/luxury resources.
Simply put, more does not mean always better.
Current detail level is pretty good.

What you run into is people like me who want a far more robust civilian sector AKA a working economy. I'm one who's advocated having to take the resources, refine them, then transport the refined goods from planet to planet. Example you take in steel to a factory planet, steel is turned into widgets, widgets get shipped to the population for consumption, etc.


I liked playing game like Patrician IV and Tropico Series. I play also Simutrans.
In DW, processing of resource only occurs at construction yard.
Raw resource into components which are used to assemble units, the games actors.
That's not good enough for you..? For game which also entails diplomacy and combat,
this is just enough of complexity in my humble opinion.






Which falls under the category 'to each his own'. I certainly wouldn't expect it to be a forced issue, more like a complexity switch for normal (what we have now) and very hard...my way.

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Post #: 16
RE: Food and water - 12/2/2011 9:51:09 PM   
Kal Naar

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fideach

I don't really care in the long run what system is used, as long as something is added to make it harder to just colonize everything in sight beyond doing the research for the planet types and paying for the colony ship.
There should be some resource drain, one way or another when you initially build a new colony and they have to develop.
This would put human players on more of an even ground with AI Empires, along with adding more strategy to deciding what, when, and where to colonize.
Would also make fighting over certain planets\systems more important, along with making bombardment of planets more of a harder choice. Since do you want to destroy the pristine world you are fighting for, or does the planet not matter and you just want the annoying round projector of enemy influence destroyed. As the bombardment of it would add to the cost of supporting it, if you colonize it. Through additional supplies\money to support the colony and building of a terraforming station to fix the damage.

Edit: clarifying what I said.



This could be achieved simply by setting a negative revenue for your newest colonies that would represent the cost other planets have to put up to support and develop the new world.
This value would normalize over time until if finally became positive, at which point the colony would be self sufficient.
The negative revenue should also be proportional to the planet quality, worst quality less revenue.





(in reply to Fideach)
Post #: 17
RE: Food and water - 12/2/2011 10:30:15 PM   
Nedrear


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kal Naar

This could be achieved simply by setting a negative revenue for your newest colonies that would represent the cost other planets have to put up to support and develop the new world.
This value would normalize over time until if finally became positive, at which point the colony would be self sufficient.
The negative revenue should also be proportional to the planet quality, worst quality less revenue.



Finally a reasonable option which does not damage the idea behind the game but stops the colony spam. I am all for this one!

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Post #: 18
RE: Food and water - 12/2/2011 10:38:19 PM   
Fideach

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nedrear


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kal Naar

This could be achieved simply by setting a negative revenue for your newest colonies that would represent the cost other planets have to put up to support and develop the new world.
This value would normalize over time until if finally became positive, at which point the colony would be self sufficient.
The negative revenue should also be proportional to the planet quality, worst quality less revenue.



Finally a reasonable option which does not damage the idea behind the game but stops the colony spam. I am all for this one!


That is one idea already stated in other threads. I was just going along with the idea of supplies and such.

(in reply to Nedrear)
Post #: 19
RE: Food and water - 12/3/2011 12:09:09 AM   
jpwrunyan


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I'd like to see them introduce the concept of ponies.

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Post #: 20
RE: Food and water - 12/3/2011 12:53:47 AM   
Nedrear


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jpwrunyan

I'd like to see them introduce the concept of ponies.


Yes spammer eating space ponies. An old weapon of the extinct civilisation. Besides silver mist and kaltor this was one of their better inventions!

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Post #: 21
RE: Food and water - 12/3/2011 4:58:27 AM   
Baleur


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Nuff said. Crop yeilds are increasing exponentially as genetic engineering improves. Through our entire history, increases in crop yield or farming techniques has lead to massive population growth.
To say that eventually we run out of food because we need space to build cities on, is folly. We will have self-sustaining cities with farms IN the cities, vertically.
It is simply more efficent and land-area-efficent than huge open fields, which will be a thing of the past eventually. (we still have more than enough space left though)

There is no reason a planet coult not reach Coruscant levels, except that in Star Wars they did not consider new methods for growing food. Imagine a Coruscant where every 101'st skyscraper is a farm (vegetation and growing meat) and powerplant in one. With 1000 stories or more, you've got more than enough room to grow enough food.
Ingame i think there should definetly be a tech or something that increases max population on the planets, the invisible "max" that simply indicates lack of food.

< Message edited by Baleur -- 12/3/2011 4:59:24 AM >

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Post #: 22
RE: Food and water - 12/3/2011 5:23:04 AM   
Fideach

 

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From what I know of star wars, they actually lost all sorts of technology due to all the wars between the Jedi and the Seth. Though that comes from the Old Republic stuff mostly. I'm not sure if that is canon or not.
But there isn't any telling what sorts of technology they actually had to do this or that, isn't like Lucas spent a lot of time showing us there farming techniques after all.

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RE: Food and water - 12/3/2011 1:44:37 PM   
MartialDoctor


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ASHBERY76

Food and water is too low ball and fiddly for this scale and I doubt Elliot would want to code it anyway for an expansoin pack.Galactic Emperors do not buld farms.


Other 4x games have had farms in them.

If implemented right, it could be a nice addition.

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RE: Food and water - 12/3/2011 1:48:39 PM   
solops

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ASHBERY76

Food and water is too low ball and fiddly for this scale and I doubt Elliot would want to code it anyway for an expansoin pack.Galactic Emperors do not buld farms.


Dead on target. Kudos and ditto.

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RE: Food and water - 12/3/2011 3:26:02 PM   
the1sean


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ASHBERY76

Food and water is too low ball and fiddly for this scale and I doubt Elliot would want to code it anyway for an expansoin pack.Galactic Emperors do not buld farms.

They did in Master of Orion, and ask the roman emperors about those pesky grain shortages and the resulting riots.

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RE: Food and water - 12/3/2011 3:40:16 PM   
feelotraveller


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I guess it's only armies which march on their stomachs - while space navies exhaust their gases.

I'd love to see food included in the game but in a more complex way, something along the lines of Sharks suggestion, but maybe more nuanced and intricate?

Regardless, it seems more like an idea which might be considered for DW2 rather than something easy to slap into an expansion.

Wishlisting it (again...) wouldn't hurt.

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RE: Food and water - 12/3/2011 4:50:16 PM   
ASHBERY76


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quote:

ORIGINAL: the1sean


quote:

ORIGINAL: ASHBERY76

Food and water is too low ball and fiddly for this scale and I doubt Elliot would want to code it anyway for an expansoin pack.Galactic Emperors do not buld farms.

They did in Master of Orion, and ask the roman emperors about those pesky grain shortages and the resulting riots.


Roman Emperors did not have FTL level technology.I do not think food would be an issue with super advanced races and seems primitive at this level.Food is only an issue with poor backward nations on earth now,so.

< Message edited by ASHBERY76 -- 12/3/2011 5:05:24 PM >


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RE: Food and water - 12/3/2011 4:54:37 PM   
Krippakrull

 

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Personally, I like how it is abstracted away. There are some foodstuffs among the luxuries that promote growth, and that's fine. Handling food simply isn't interesting for me on an empire wide basis. Also, as some have said, a civilization that has come to the point of being able to undertake massive interstellar colonization is probable to be beyond starving unless something goes very wrong (exclusive luxury foods is another matter). The murphy thing could be handled through random events, and could possibly be interesting though! :)

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RE: Food and water - 12/3/2011 5:10:43 PM   
Malevolence


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ASHBERY76
Food and water is too low ball and fiddly for this scale and I doubt Elliot would want to code it anyway for an expansoin pack.Galactic Emperors do not buld farms.


I'm not so sure about that too low ball and fiddly. We are talking about a game filled with commercially owned ships moving freight all over the place with zero player interaction (or even a screen that displays the queue).

Adding a food and potable water resource isn't that far fetched. My only argument against it is that it would conceivably require different food resource objects for each race (or possibly family of races). It will add to the burden of the existing freighter AI system, which I would think would slow the game down.

In terms of gameplay, it adds all kinds of cool wrinkles to blockades... where you starve the colony into submission, bugs start eating the soft meaty races to survive, etc.



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