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RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108p3 updated 10 July (2nd part)

 
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RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108p3 updated 10 Ju... - 11/26/2011 12:50:59 AM   
jcjordan

 

Posts: 1900
Joined: 6/27/2001
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm

quote:

ORIGINAL: jcjordan

Well I take what I said back, the pilot problem is back for me & it seems like you can only get a 10% overage of pilots vs what should be 33% or the 20% I had at the end of the Mar/Apr turns. Everything was normal for the 5/1 & 5/2 turns but for some reason it hit going into the 5/3 turn. Attached is the 5/2 turn. If you look at any of the large units like any of the A20 groups you can see that on 5/2 you have 32 pilots & if you send pilots out of the unit you can draw pilots back to 32 but on 5/3 just about all units have sent 3 pilots to inactive & you can activate them but if you release pilots to get to 24 you can only add a couple of pilots now. I even looked at the IJ AI side of things & the same problem exists for them as well.


As the free pilot space shrinks, the over-fill goes from 33.33% to 20% to 10%.
It will restore the 33.33%, once the free space goes back to 1500 slots (as of r1).
There can be a switching back and forth as the space drifts between the limits.


Ok, where would I see the 1500 pilots so as to know when I'm close to hitting it for future reference? I loaded both sides into Tracker for each day & IJ side has 11764/12340 total for those days & Allied has 33102/33056 for a total of 44866/45396 pilots in use for those days. Thanks for the help!

(in reply to michaelm75au)
Post #: 1171
RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108p3 updated 10 Ju... - 11/26/2011 1:31:10 AM   
michaelm75au


Posts: 13500
Joined: 5/5/2001
From: Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred


quote:

ORIGINAL: jcjordan

Michael looks like the max pilot error I had previously is back or wasn't fully fixed. Also the month end seems to have some part in the problem as I was running fine under the betas since 1108q9c seemed to fix it & was running r3 for a couple of days & I could get pilots but now I can't & the max pilot now seems to be closer to a/c unit size than the 20% overage I had problems w/ before. I've attached my 4/30/45 & 5/1/45 turns. Take a look at 58thFG/201stFS at PM on 4/30 you can get a pilot but not on 5/1. Also look at VMF213 & VMF216 that come in on 5/1, you can only add 1 pilot to these units whereas you should be able to add pilots to get to 24. My pilot status in loading each turn in Tracker has the following

4/30 5/1
Total 33094 33117
Active 27615 27646
WIA 24 21
MIA 26 26
KIA 107 100
Inactive 4303 4305
Delayed 1019 1019

4/30 turn



The pilot array was increased to 70k agregated for both sides. How many pilots are on the other side?

Alfred

Only the MP version of the EXE has the increased pilot size (MP = more pilots). The normal EXE has the standard size (50k).

_____________________________

Michael

(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 1172
RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108p3 updated 10 Ju... - 11/26/2011 1:55:04 AM   
michaelm75au


Posts: 13500
Joined: 5/5/2001
From: Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jcjordan


quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm

quote:

ORIGINAL: jcjordan

Well I take what I said back, the pilot problem is back for me & it seems like you can only get a 10% overage of pilots vs what should be 33% or the 20% I had at the end of the Mar/Apr turns. Everything was normal for the 5/1 & 5/2 turns but for some reason it hit going into the 5/3 turn. Attached is the 5/2 turn. If you look at any of the large units like any of the A20 groups you can see that on 5/2 you have 32 pilots & if you send pilots out of the unit you can draw pilots back to 32 but on 5/3 just about all units have sent 3 pilots to inactive & you can activate them but if you release pilots to get to 24 you can only add a couple of pilots now. I even looked at the IJ AI side of things & the same problem exists for them as well.


As the free pilot space shrinks, the over-fill goes from 33.33% to 20% to 10%.
It will restore the 33.33%, once the free space goes back to 1500 slots (as of r1).
There can be a switching back and forth as the space drifts between the limits.


Ok, where would I see the 1500 pilots so as to know when I'm close to hitting it for future reference? I loaded both sides into Tracker for each day & IJ side has 11764/12340 total for those days & Allied has 33102/33056 for a total of 44866/45396 pilots in use for those days. Thanks for the help!


The number of total spare pilots is 6556 on 30/4 and 5358 on 1/5. So the overfill is still at 33.33%.
The changing overfill is not shown, but a comment is added to the Events log when some pilots are freed up.
"Freed %a pilots at level %d". The value of %d controls the overfill - >7 = 10%, 6,7 = 20%, <6 = 33.33%

I also tend to see these low pilot situations happen on the 1st of month. Presumely because new groups tend to arrive then and have a drain on free pilot numbers as the groups get populated.

< Message edited by michaelm -- 11/26/2011 2:22:01 AM >

_____________________________

Michael

(in reply to jcjordan)
Post #: 1173
RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108p3 updated 10 Ju... - 11/26/2011 2:05:58 AM   
michaelm75au


Posts: 13500
Joined: 5/5/2001
From: Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jcjordan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred


quote:

ORIGINAL: jcjordan

Michael looks like the max pilot error I had previously is back or wasn't fully fixed. Also the month end seems to have some part in the problem as I was running fine under the betas since 1108q9c seemed to fix it & was running r3 for a couple of days & I could get pilots but now I can't & the max pilot now seems to be closer to a/c unit size than the 20% overage I had problems w/ before. I've attached my 4/30/45 & 5/1/45 turns. Take a look at 58thFG/201stFS at PM on 4/30 you can get a pilot but not on 5/1. Also look at VMF213 & VMF216 that come in on 5/1, you can only add 1 pilot to these units whereas you should be able to add pilots to get to 24. My pilot status in loading each turn in Tracker has the following

4/30 5/1
Total 33094 33117
Active 27615 27646
WIA 24 21
MIA 26 26
KIA 107 100
Inactive 4303 4305
Delayed 1019 1019

4/30 turn



The pilot array was increased to 70k agregated for both sides. How many pilots are on the other side?

Alfred


Never mind for some reason my game had some kind of lockup for that turn. When I load the 5/1 turn now, I can get pilots as normal after I quit the game & come back in. Still scratch my head over what happened though

What is properly happening here is that when a game is loaded, the free pilot list is checked and if needed old pilots pruned.
The normal pruning only happens in-game when no immediate free pilots are available (this could take a few turns before this happens).
Thus the number of free pilots is higher when the turn is loaded but lower until the in-game pruning takes affect.

As this is against the AI, you might want to change over to the MP version which will give you an extra 20K of pilots.
Note that once you changeover, the save can't be loaded in to the startard EXE.
---> I am not sure if the MP version will be in the next official patch, but I will provide one based on the final released version.

_____________________________

Michael

(in reply to jcjordan)
Post #: 1174
RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108p3 updated 10 Ju... - 11/26/2011 3:18:32 AM   
LowCommand

 

Posts: 138
Joined: 8/14/2002
From: VA
Status: offline
I've got a repeatable crash to desktop, this Beta Build 1108p3. It may be some kind of "too many AC" problem, as I just upgraded Kochi to a level 9 airbase and move most of the AC in the ETO to it. Scenario 21 Downfall against Jap AI, Win 7 64 bit.

This was going to be one of my last turns as I've pretty well reduced Japan.

Thank You for all the work you've put into this and the joy it's given us.

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Mines reported in the fairway,
"Warn all traffic and detain,
"'Sent up Unity, Cralibel, Assyrian, Stormcock, and Golden Gain."

(in reply to michaelm75au)
Post #: 1175
RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108p3 updated 10 Ju... - 11/26/2011 3:35:01 AM   
michaelm75au


Posts: 13500
Joined: 5/5/2001
From: Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LowCommand


I've got a repeatable crash to desktop, this Beta Build 1108p3. It may be some kind of "too many AC" problem, as I just upgraded Kochi to a level 9 airbase and move most of the AC in the ETO to it. Scenario 21 Downfall against Jap AI, Win 7 64 bit.

This was going to be one of my last turns as I've pretty well reduced Japan.

Thank You for all the work you've put into this and the joy it's given us.

What was the last thing (roughly) it showed before CTD? Need to narrow my search.

_____________________________

Michael

(in reply to LowCommand)
Post #: 1176
RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108p3 updated 10 Ju... - 11/26/2011 3:50:17 AM   
LowCommand

 

Posts: 138
Joined: 8/14/2002
From: VA
Status: offline
It crashes in the AM air attacks. I'll re-run it and give you something better.

_____________________________

"Mines reported in the fairway,
"Warn all traffic and detain,
"'Sent up Unity, Cralibel, Assyrian, Stormcock, and Golden Gain."

(in reply to michaelm75au)
Post #: 1177
RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108p3 updated 10 Ju... - 11/26/2011 4:07:08 AM   
LowCommand

 

Posts: 138
Joined: 8/14/2002
From: VA
Status: offline
OK, after the usual morning recon runs there about 19 raids. Then it starts doing recon again, maybe 6 or so, then it crashes.

_____________________________

"Mines reported in the fairway,
"Warn all traffic and detain,
"'Sent up Unity, Cralibel, Assyrian, Stormcock, and Golden Gain."

(in reply to LowCommand)
Post #: 1178
RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108p3 updated 10 Ju... - 11/26/2011 4:23:52 AM   
michaelm75au


Posts: 13500
Joined: 5/5/2001
From: Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline 		Ok.
Looks like it happens when it tries to re-draw the map after the AM missions.
I'll try to narrow down.


_____________________________

Michael

(in reply to LowCommand)
Post #: 1179
RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108p3 updated 10 Ju... - 11/26/2011 4:49:02 AM   
jcjordan

 

Posts: 1900
Joined: 6/27/2001
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm


quote:

ORIGINAL: jcjordan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred


quote:

ORIGINAL: jcjordan

Michael looks like the max pilot error I had previously is back or wasn't fully fixed. Also the month end seems to have some part in the problem as I was running fine under the betas since 1108q9c seemed to fix it & was running r3 for a couple of days & I could get pilots but now I can't & the max pilot now seems to be closer to a/c unit size than the 20% overage I had problems w/ before. I've attached my 4/30/45 & 5/1/45 turns. Take a look at 58thFG/201stFS at PM on 4/30 you can get a pilot but not on 5/1. Also look at VMF213 & VMF216 that come in on 5/1, you can only add 1 pilot to these units whereas you should be able to add pilots to get to 24. My pilot status in loading each turn in Tracker has the following

4/30 5/1
Total 33094 33117
Active 27615 27646
WIA 24 21
MIA 26 26
KIA 107 100
Inactive 4303 4305
Delayed 1019 1019

4/30 turn



The pilot array was increased to 70k agregated for both sides. How many pilots are on the other side?

Alfred


Never mind for some reason my game had some kind of lockup for that turn. When I load the 5/1 turn now, I can get pilots as normal after I quit the game & come back in. Still scratch my head over what happened though

What is properly happening here is that when a game is loaded, the free pilot list is checked and if needed old pilots pruned.
The normal pruning only happens in-game when no immediate free pilots are available (this could take a few turns before this happens).
Thus the number of free pilots is higher when the turn is loaded but lower until the in-game pruning takes affect.

As this is against the AI, you might want to change over to the MP version which will give you an extra 20K of pilots.
Note that once you changeover, the save can't be loaded in to the startard EXE.
---> I am not sure if the MP version will be in the next official patch, but I will provide one based on the final released version.


Ok thanks for the tip on the events log, I never saw the msgs during the turn but see them on the daily logs now so I didn't know about that (learn something new). So on the exe I can go load my savegame into the MP but once done I can't go back - no problem if that fixes it?

(in reply to michaelm75au)
Post #: 1180
RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108p3 updated 10 Ju... - 11/26/2011 7:32:44 AM   
michaelm75au


Posts: 13500
Joined: 5/5/2001
From: Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LowCommand


OK, after the usual morning recon runs there about 19 raids. Then it starts doing recon again, maybe 6 or so, then it crashes.


I have found the problem. Bit tricky. The number of attacking planes in the FIRST raid is overflowing and causing some memory corruption.
Looking at it now.

_____________________________

Michael

(in reply to LowCommand)
Post #: 1181
RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108p3 updated 10 Ju... - 11/26/2011 2:51:22 PM   
LowCommand

 

Posts: 138
Joined: 8/14/2002
From: VA
Status: offline
Thanks, we appreciate what you do, the enormous effort that has gone into this game.


_____________________________

"Mines reported in the fairway,
"Warn all traffic and detain,
"'Sent up Unity, Cralibel, Assyrian, Stormcock, and Golden Gain."

(in reply to michaelm75au)
Post #: 1182
RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108p3 updated 10 Ju... - 11/26/2011 3:20:42 PM   
CV 2

 

Posts: 376
Joined: 2/21/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LowCommand


Thanks, we appreciate what you do, the enormous effort that has gone into this game.



+1. Cant say thanks enough.

(in reply to LowCommand)
Post #: 1183
RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108p3 updated 10 Ju... - 11/26/2011 4:18:06 PM   
m10bob


Posts: 8622
Joined: 11/3/2002
From: Dismal Seepage Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CV 2


quote:

ORIGINAL: LowCommand


Thanks, we appreciate what you do, the enormous effort that has gone into this game.



+1. Cant say thanks enough.



+2.......Just look at the number of improvements and fixes in the original post..The list is getting longer than a roll of toilet paper!

_____________________________




(in reply to CV 2)
Post #: 1184
RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108p3 updated 10 Ju... - 11/26/2011 6:28:59 PM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: m10bob


quote:

ORIGINAL: CV 2


quote:

ORIGINAL: LowCommand


Thanks, we appreciate what you do, the enormous effort that has gone into this game.



+1. Cant say thanks enough.



+2.......Just look at the number of improvements and fixes in the original post..The list is getting longer than a roll of toilet paper!

+3



_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to m10bob)
Post #: 1185
RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108p3 updated 10 Ju... - 11/27/2011 9:18:42 AM   
rjopel

 

Posts: 614
Joined: 12/19/2007
From: Charlottesville, VA, USA
Status: offline 		I wish there was a way to downgrade land devices when you have a ton of the older model laying around and a divided division that you can't recombine because it will take FOREVER to upgrade the /b and /c fragments to 6pdr AT guns.

If I disbanded the seperated part could I buy back the unit and it show up with the larger gun in its MTOE? Or vice versa, disband the one with 6pdr and it have the smaller unit which is more common?

(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 1186
RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108p3 updated 10 Ju... - 11/28/2011 10:04:43 AM   
Grfin Zeppelin


Posts: 1515
Joined: 12/3/2007
From: Germany
Status: offline 		Thanks alot for all the patches
I am suffering however from (freezes graphic and sound,need to restart computer if this happens) Any clue what might cause this ? Prior to the last beta patches my game was runing very stable.

_____________________________



(in reply to rjopel)
Post #: 1187
RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108p3 updated 10 Ju... - 11/29/2011 8:28:20 AM   
michaelm75au


Posts: 13500
Joined: 5/5/2001
From: Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline 		Are you using your preferred option switches (multiCPUxxxx, cpu#, etc)? The beta just installs a base shortcut which doesn't really take into count the properties of the PC.

I ran the current beta overnight on AIvAI with sounds and animations, and it was still going when I woke up (8 hours straight).


_____________________________

Michael

(in reply to Grfin Zeppelin)
Post #: 1188
RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108p3 updated 10 Ju... - 11/29/2011 5:29:11 PM   
Grfin Zeppelin


Posts: 1515
Joined: 12/3/2007
From: Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm

Are you using your preferred option switches (multiCPUxxxx, cpu#, etc)? The beta just installs a base shortcut which doesn't really take into count the properties of the PC.

I ran the current beta overnight on AIvAI with sounds and animations, and it was still going when I woke up (8 hours straight).


Thank you very much, that seemed to solve it.

_____________________________



(in reply to michaelm75au)
Post #: 1189
RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108p3 updated 10 Ju... - 11/29/2011 7:30:34 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline 		Michael,

A suggestion for the LCUs screen (the one that shows multiple LCUs at a base or non-base hex): There is a 'show soft' and 'show hard' toggle. When 'soft' is selected, the right-most column shows the percent of the TOE that the unit has enabled (meaning not disabled squads). Can this be modified to show the same format as on the individual LCU screen? In other words, instead of showing "68", show "68/92" indicating that the LCU is at 92% of TOE overall and 68% of devices are enabled (not disabled).

Visually it looks like there is room available, but I know that alternate fonts take up more space.

(in reply to Grfin Zeppelin)
Post #: 1190
RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108p3 updated 10 Ju... - 12/3/2011 2:28:26 AM   
n01487477


Posts: 4779
Joined: 2/21/2006
Status: offline 		Michael -
Off the top of my head, I have some more challenging requests for you, if you are willing to indulge a dreamer:-
GAME CHANGES
  • Change the ability of the Allies to have full factory information at their fingertips with the Strategic bombing interface. I believe this should be brought under the rules of FOW or another mechanism; whereby if the Allies are not within flyover range - the info is somewhat garbled (as it is with a mouseover).
  • R&D algorithm more severe for realistic R&D and no freebie upgrdes along the path in that mode, maybe a percentage of factories become disabled.
  • I'm going to try to cajole Floyd into included this in Tracker anyway - but in the air groups list - have them listed with each of their particular skill no's.
  • Display showing all Ships - option for class name to be shown for all. (Tracker does this anyway)
    EDITOR /GAME MECH
  • Get the editor opened up to changing the multiplier variables for airframe,engines,Arm, Veh, Naval and Merchants. Maybe also pilots too.
  • Allow fractions to be recognised for existing multipliers(editor).
  • PP's to be made variable on date (editor controlled) or linked by percent to VP's. In the former a variability to play and the later option suggesting political will. An allied player bunkering down and waiting until '43 would have less to spend.
  • The ability to setup auto-convoys (CS) in the editor.(minor req) Japan didn't start the war devoid of raw material convoys.

    POTENTIAL BUG
  • From my testing there is a bug with close action CV to CV battles with radar. I have other test data but Nemo121 put it so well about the original thread / battle I include his thoughts.

    quote:

    If you look at the two strikes you see the following:
    1. Both fleets were 46 miles ( 1 hex apart ).
    2. The Allies spotted the strike 120 miles away and had about 45 minutes to react before they were overhead.
    3. The Japanese spotted teh strike 40 miles away and thus had about 15 minutes to react before they were overhead.

    The difference in spotting was entirely due to radar being present on US ships and not on Japanese ships. There's nothing more to it than that. Actually though - and this was missed by all of the posters - the spotting of the Japanese strike at 120 miles is a bug. It could only have been spottted at 46 miles ( since TFs are supposed to occupy the mid-point of the hex for range calculations ).

    Since the Allies had 3 times as long to intercept far more of their fighters did and they spent far longer attacking bombers. Your fighter, on the other hand, had almost no time to make firing passes and those they did make were absorbed by the fighters with very few passes disrupting the bomber stream.

    Why? Radar.

    Actually the result IS due to a bug but only insofar as the Allies should have only spotted the raid 40 miles out and only had 15 minutes to react. This meant you'd have suffered huge losses anyways but would have inflicted far more also.


    Thanks for reading Michael.


    < Message edited by n01487477 -- 12/3/2011 2:30:11 AM >

    _____________________________

    -Damian-
    EconDoc
    TrackerAE
    Tutes&Java

    (in reply to witpqs)
    • Post #: 1191
    RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108p3 updated 10 Ju... - 12/3/2011 1:51:02 PM   
    Karsten

     

    Posts: 31
    Joined: 2/27/2005
    Status: offline     		One maybe often asked question from a side entry
    Are the patches complete?
    i am using now version 1.0.4.1106i. Can i just execute the 1108p3 download or do i have to go step by step?

    thank you
    karsten

    (in reply to michaelm75au)
    Post #: 1192
    RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108r4 updated 10 Ju... - 12/3/2011 2:00:02 PM   
    n01487477


    Posts: 4779
    Joined: 2/21/2006
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Karsten

    One maybe often asked question from a side entry
    Are the patches complete?
    i am using now version 1.0.4.1106i. Can i just execute the 1108p3 download or do i have to go step by step?

    thank you
    karsten


    Complete? I hope not ... we'd like more But they are working and full of goodness.

    No need for incremental, the latest is 1108r4. Just download, extract and run. It will create a new shortcut on the desktop.

    _____________________________

    -Damian-
    EconDoc
    TrackerAE
    Tutes&Java

    (in reply to Karsten)
    Post #: 1193
    RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108p3 updated 10 Ju... - 12/3/2011 2:24:47 PM   
    PaxMondo


    Posts: 9750
    Joined: 6/6/2008
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: n01487477

    Michael -
    Off the top of my head, I have some more challenging requests for you, if you are willing to indulge a dreamer:-
    GAME CHANGES
  • Change the ability of the Allies to have full factory information at their fingertips with the Strategic bombing interface. I believe this should be brought under the rules of FOW or another mechanism; whereby if the Allies are not within flyover range - the info is somewhat garbled (as it is with a mouseover).
  • R&D algorithm more severe for realistic R&D and no freebie upgrdes along the path in that mode, maybe a percentage of factories become disabled.
  • I'm going to try to cajole Floyd into included this in Tracker anyway - but in the air groups list - have them listed with each of their particular skill no's.
  • Display showing all Ships - option for class name to be shown for all. (Tracker does this anyway)
    EDITOR /GAME MECH
  • Get the editor opened up to changing the multiplier variables for airframe,engines,Arm, Veh, Naval and Merchants. Maybe also pilots too.
  • Allow fractions to be recognised for existing multipliers(editor).
  • PP's to be made variable on date (editor controlled) or linked by percent to VP's. In the former a variability to play and the later option suggesting political will. An allied player bunkering down and waiting until '43 would have less to spend.
  • The ability to setup auto-convoys (CS) in the editor.(minor req) Japan didn't start the war devoid of raw material convoys.

    POTENTIAL BUG
  • From my testing there is a bug with close action CV to CV battles with radar. I have other test data but Nemo121 put it so well about the original thread / battle I include his thoughts.

    quote:

    If you look at the two strikes you see the following:
    1. Both fleets were 46 miles ( 1 hex apart ).
    2. The Allies spotted the strike 120 miles away and had about 45 minutes to react before they were overhead.
    3. The Japanese spotted teh strike 40 miles away and thus had about 15 minutes to react before they were overhead.

    The difference in spotting was entirely due to radar being present on US ships and not on Japanese ships. There's nothing more to it than that. Actually though - and this was missed by all of the posters - the spotting of the Japanese strike at 120 miles is a bug. It could only have been spottted at 46 miles ( since TFs are supposed to occupy the mid-point of the hex for range calculations ).

    Since the Allies had 3 times as long to intercept far more of their fighters did and they spent far longer attacking bombers. Your fighter, on the other hand, had almost no time to make firing passes and those they did make were absorbed by the fighters with very few passes disrupting the bomber stream.

    Why? Radar.

    Actually the result IS due to a bug but only insofar as the Allies should have only spotted the raid 40 miles out and only had 15 minutes to react. This meant you'd have suffered huge losses anyways but would have inflicted far more also.


    Thanks for reading Michael.


    • The Strategic Bombing issue and the close in radar issue are pretty big ones. Hopefully they can be addressed. I hate to use the "B" word on either one of them, but they are really close to that category. I'm pretty sure they are both WAD, but I think the unintended consequences are not exactly what was desired.

    I like the idea of the variable PP's for modders. Would allow some very interesting scenarios. Setting it up like the replacement pilots screen in the editor would be sufficient for me as a starting point. Being able to add PP's based upon a trigger would be impressive. Ex: If allies lose PH, +1500 PP to IJ, +500 PP to allies (simulating shifting of forces from Atlantic by the allies losing an important base and providing incentive for IJ to take such a base). Like an AI script that would fire even if it is a PBEM game. However, the coding of this seems daunting to me.

    Taking the variable PP concept one step further, move the additional units for "crossing the line" into an AI type file that could be modder edited. Being able to adjust those lines, adjust the units given, and create new ones would REALLY make for some impressive what-if scenario mods. You would be able to simulate better some alternate history ideas and react to the ebb and flow of the game. WOW.

    The auto-convoy idea would take SO much of the time and effort out of the first turn for modders. Particularly for testing if nothing else.

    I can see the potential value of having the multipliers in the editor ... but that is really high end modding. Out of my scope. Damian, John III, and others though would likely love this one.

    _____________________________

    Pax

    (in reply to n01487477)
    Post #: 1194
    RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108p3 updated 10 Ju... - 12/3/2011 5:08:41 PM   
    JWE

     

    Posts: 6580
    Joined: 7/19/2005
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: n01487477
    POTENTIAL BUG
  • From my testing there is a bug with close action CV to CV battles with radar. I have other test data but Nemo121 put it so well about the original thread / battle I include his thoughts.

    quote:

    If you look at the two strikes you see the following:
    1. Both fleets were 46 miles ( 1 hex apart ).
    2. The Allies spotted the strike 120 miles away and had about 45 minutes to react before they were overhead.
    3. The Japanese spotted teh strike 40 miles away and thus had about 15 minutes to react before they were overhead.

    The difference in spotting was entirely due to radar being present on US ships and not on Japanese ships. There's nothing more to it than that. Actually though - and this was missed by all of the posters - the spotting of the Japanese strike at 120 miles is a bug. It could only have been spottted at 46 miles ( since TFs are supposed to occupy the mid-point of the hex for range calculations ).

    Since the Allies had 3 times as long to intercept far more of their fighters did and they spent far longer attacking bombers. Your fighter, on the other hand, had almost no time to make firing passes and those they did make were absorbed by the fighters with very few passes disrupting the bomber stream.

    Why? Radar.

    Actually the result IS due to a bug but only insofar as the Allies should have only spotted the raid 40 miles out and only had 15 minutes to react. This meant you'd have suffered huge losses anyways but would have inflicted far more also.

    Thanks for reading Michael.

    • Sorry Damian, but I'm not Michael . But it's not really a bug either. What people need to realize is that notification scripts are simply notification scripts. The game goes to a list of scripts, picks one, and displays it. The radar scripts are for Det at long, medium, short range. There's a gazillion radars with range of 147, 66, 23; you ever see any of those numbers? No? Well then, maybe the pick-and-show script isn't doing what you think. Maybe it's just showing a standard long, medium, short, Det value that don't have much to do with the algorythmic calculations, except to run them with the long, med, short range response variables.

    The game is an abstraction of many things. It certainly does not look at how far apart anything is, except in terms of hexes. And the scripts don't care about each individual hex placement. I think you are just going to have to live with this.

    There's a gazillion interactions between the data and the game algorithm, and the scripts the the executable chooses to display, don't have much to do with what's going on, except in an abstract way. So please don't waste your time attempting to understand the system by reading notification scripts.

    Just kinda fyi. Ciao. John

    [ed] btw, I can give you a better appreciation as to what's going on by pm, if you wish.

    < Message edited by JWE -- 12/3/2011 5:09:38 PM >

    _____________________________

    Home of DaBabes

    (in reply to n01487477)
    Post #: 1195
    RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108r5 updated 4 Dec... - 12/4/2011 8:56:17 AM   
    michaelm75au


    Posts: 13500
    Joined: 5/5/2001
    From: Melbourne, Australia
    Status: offline     		[1108r5]
    Fixed Missing troop level in non-base hex [MEM]
    Fixed Use Manchuko hex ownership to determine garrision [MEM]
    Fixed Reinforcement LCU details not showing when clicked on Reinforcement Schedule [MEM]
    Fixed Reinforcement arrival shows on enemy report [MEM]
    Fixed Rebuilt unit not finding devices [MEM]
    Fixed Destroyed LCU could get stuck on reinforcement queue if from a ship [MEM]
    Tweak Show Atoll or island size on mouse over of base [MEM]
    Tweak Industry FOW [MEM]

    _____________________________

    Michael

    (in reply to JWE)
    Post #: 1196
    RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108r5 updated 4 Dec... - 12/4/2011 9:09:53 AM   
    Sardaukar


    Posts: 9847
    Joined: 11/28/2001
    From: Finland/Israel
    Status: offline

    _____________________________

    "To meaningless French Idealism, Liberty, Fraternity and Equality...we answer with German Realism, Infantry, Cavalry and Artillery" -Prince von Bülov, 1870-


    (in reply to michaelm75au)
    Post #: 1197
    RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108r5 updated 4 Dec... - 12/4/2011 9:11:51 AM   
    JuanG


    Posts: 906
    Joined: 12/28/2008
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: michaelm

    [1108r5]
    Fixed Missing troop level in non-base hex [MEM]
    Fixed Use Manchuko hex ownership to determine garrision [MEM]
    Fixed Reinforcement LCU details not showing when clicked on Reinforcement Schedule [MEM]
    Fixed Reinforcement arrival shows on enemy report [MEM]
    Fixed Rebuilt unit not finding devices [MEM]
    Fixed Destroyed LCU could get stuck on reinforcement queue if from a ship [MEM]
    Tweak Show Atoll or island size on mouse over of base [MEM]
    Tweak Industry FOW [MEM]


    This particular change is something I really appreciate, as I was a little worried after reading the related thread, since I wasnt sure how it would affect ahistorical borders in Manchuria. The Industry FOW tweak is appreciated too.

    Once again, thanks for all the great work.

    < Message edited by JuanG -- 12/4/2011 9:12:02 AM >

    _____________________________


    Coral Sea HDM
    AltWNT Scenarios

    (in reply to michaelm75au)
    Post #: 1198
    RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108r5 updated 4 Dec... - 12/4/2011 10:51:52 AM   
    Gunner98

     

    Posts: 5508
    Joined: 4/29/2005
    From: The Great White North!
    Status: offline     		Michael

    Excellent stuff, really appreciate the work you've done here. I have noticed a couple things that could be tweaked - not sure if they are on your list or not but here goes:

    - LCU move logic. Seems odd at times, I think it takes the short-sighted view of fastest way out of the current hex and not the quickest overall journey. E.g. Marching from Cairns (92,140) to Cooktown (92,137) the units tend to go NW along the main road to 91,139 then have to slog through the Jungle/Rough & Jungle the rest of the way. Taking the secondary road West and then North is much faster but you need to manually move them to 91,140 and then direct them to Cooktown.

    - TF Fuel indications. When routing a long distance convoy - say a Tanker from LA to Sydney, you probably don't have enough fuel and the Fuel indicator will show red - good. Then when you route it through PH and assign 'Full refuel' and 'same return route' - it should now show green but it keeps the red. I believe that it changes to Green on the following turn (or worst case when it refuels for the first time in PH - not sure). Is there a way of pushing the fuel calculation and hence turn the indicator to green when your planning the route? Not a biggie in any way.

    -Waypoint fuel toggle. Really minor one here. Many of the toggles in the game have a 'Left click' or 'Right click' difference, i.e. the options go up or down the list depending on which click you do. The Waypoint refuel option does not, you need to cycle through the list - there is only 4 options so its not onerous but a consistency issue.

    Thanks again for all your super work.

    B

    (in reply to JuanG)
    Post #: 1199
    RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108r5 updated 4 Dec... - 12/4/2011 12:58:21 PM   
    dbmsts

     

    Posts: 135
    Joined: 2/18/2011
    Status: offline
    quote:

    1108r5]
    Fixed Missing troop level in non-base hex [MEM]
    Fixed Use Manchuko hex ownership to determine garrision [MEM]
    Fixed Reinforcement LCU details not showing when clicked on Reinforcement Schedule [MEM]
    Fixed Reinforcement arrival shows on enemy report [MEM]
    Fixed Rebuilt unit not finding devices [MEM]
    Fixed Destroyed LCU could get stuck on reinforcement queue if from a ship [MEM]
    Tweak Show Atoll or island size on mouse over of base [MEM]
    Tweak Industry FOW [MEM]


    where's the link for the download?

    (in reply to michaelm75au)
    Post #: 1200
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