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Fighter intercept bugged 1.05 latest beta

 
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Fighter intercept bugged 1.05 latest beta - 12/4/2011 3:56:17 PM   
KenchiSulla


Posts: 2948
Joined: 10/22/2008
From: the Netherlands
Status: offline 		Might have been a problem the last 2 beta patches.. Ground support is working ok but my fighters flatout refuse to intercept supply runs by the axis..

See pics for details




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

AKA Cannonfodder

"It happened, therefore it can happen again: this is the core of what we have to say. It can happen, and it can happen everywhere.”
¯ Primo Levi, writer, holocaust survivor
Post #: 1
RE: Fighter intercept bugged 1.05 latest beta - 12/4/2011 3:57:02 PM   
KenchiSulla


Posts: 2948
Joined: 10/22/2008
From: the Netherlands
Status: offline 		Looks promising, doesn't it!




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_____________________________

AKA Cannonfodder

"It happened, therefore it can happen again: this is the core of what we have to say. It can happen, and it can happen everywhere.”
¯ Primo Levi, writer, holocaust survivor

(in reply to KenchiSulla)
Post #: 2
RE: Fighter intercept bugged 1.05 latest beta - 12/4/2011 3:58:13 PM   
KenchiSulla


Posts: 2948
Joined: 10/22/2008
From: the Netherlands
Status: offline 		Aaaaaaw.. no points

No supply runs intercepted at all the last two runs and I had fighters in range every single time...




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

AKA Cannonfodder

"It happened, therefore it can happen again: this is the core of what we have to say. It can happen, and it can happen everywhere.”
¯ Primo Levi, writer, holocaust survivor

(in reply to KenchiSulla)
Post #: 3
RE: Fighter intercept bugged 1.05 latest beta - 12/4/2011 4:16:53 PM   
heliodorus04


Posts: 1647
Joined: 11/1/2008
From: Nashville TN
Status: offline 		A) FREE RECON! Thanks!
B) While I agree there's probably a bug, in our game, it's a re-balancing of that turn where you shot down 83 of 83 Ju52s...
C) How can you read that map with all those town names!

How would one know if the weather is the problem?
I'm just curious to trouble-shoot it.

It's happening to me in my game as Soviet, as well.



< Message edited by heliodorus04 -- 12/4/2011 4:17:46 PM >

_____________________________

Fall 2021-Playing: Stalingrad'42 (GMT); Advanced Squad Leader,
Reading: Masters of the Air (GREAT BOOK!)
Rulebooks: ASL (always ASL), Middle-Earth Strategy Battle Game
Painting: WHFB Lizardmen leaders

(in reply to KenchiSulla)
Post #: 4
RE: Fighter intercept bugged 1.05 latest beta - 12/4/2011 11:58:06 PM   
Helpless


Posts: 15793
Joined: 8/27/2004
Status: offline 		Was it a day or night mission? If day, is it possible to get a save before attack?

_____________________________

Pavel Zagzin
WITE/WITW/WITE-2 Development

(in reply to heliodorus04)
Post #: 5
RE: Fighter intercept bugged 1.05 latest beta - 12/5/2011 12:29:55 AM   
Helpless


Posts: 15793
Joined: 8/27/2004
Status: offline 		Btw, it could be related to the recent change when intercepts are heavily reduced if flight goes just over enemy hexes.

_____________________________

Pavel Zagzin
WITE/WITW/WITE-2 Development

(in reply to Helpless)
Post #: 6
RE: Fighter intercept bugged 1.05 latest beta - 12/5/2011 12:35:15 AM   
Gremell

 

Posts: 23
Joined: 12/14/2010
From: Australia
Status: offline 		Hi Pavel,

I posted this in the general forum, but I thought I should post it here as well given the nature of this discussion.

I’ve noticed that since I installed patch 1.05.42 beta Soviet fighters no longer adequately defend against German attacks. (I’m playing the Germans against the Soviet AI). As a consequence, unescorted Soviet bombers are being slaughtered.

Have a look at this screengrab from Turn 208 in the campaign game. The Soviets lost 73 bombers against 71 attacking German fighters. Not one Soviet fighter escorted the bombers, even though there were heaps of Soviet fighters available at the nearby airbases around Cherepovets.

It was the same with the other battles in that area. In another unescorted slaughter, the Soviets lost 59 bombers.

This only started happening from patch 1.05.42 beta.

Let me know if you want me to send you a savegame.






Attachment (1)

(in reply to Helpless)
Post #: 7
RE: Fighter intercept bugged 1.05 latest beta - 12/5/2011 12:51:04 AM   
Helpless


Posts: 15793
Joined: 8/27/2004
Status: offline 		Hi Simon,

It sounds as a bit different issue. If you have a save and can provide steps to reproduce, it would be very helpful.

Thanks

_____________________________

Pavel Zagzin
WITE/WITW/WITE-2 Development

(in reply to Gremell)
Post #: 8
RE: Fighter intercept bugged 1.05 latest beta - 12/5/2011 12:55:21 AM   
Gremell

 

Posts: 23
Joined: 12/14/2010
From: Australia
Status: offline 		Sure Pavel. What email address should I use for the savegame?

(in reply to Helpless)
Post #: 9
RE: Fighter intercept bugged 1.05 latest beta - 12/5/2011 12:57:42 AM   
Helpless


Posts: 15793
Joined: 8/27/2004
Status: offline 		You may attach it to the message. Zip and upload as picture.

Or send it to 2by3@2by3games.com.

_____________________________

Pavel Zagzin
WITE/WITW/WITE-2 Development

(in reply to Gremell)
Post #: 10
RE: Fighter intercept bugged 1.05 latest beta - 12/5/2011 1:08:10 AM   
Gremell

 

Posts: 23
Joined: 12/14/2010
From: Australia
Status: offline 		Hi Pavel.

Attached is my savegame from the end of turn 208 in the campaign game.

I'm playing against the Soviet AI.

To replicate the lack of Soviet fighter interception, continue the game into turn 209 and use the bomb unit function against the Soviets. You'll also see the same lack of Soviet fighter interception when the Luftwaffe provides ground support for land attacks.

It happens all over the front, but the effect is most dramatic in the north where the bulk of both air forces is located.

Attachment (1)

(in reply to Helpless)
Post #: 11
RE: Fighter intercept bugged 1.05 latest beta - 12/5/2011 1:17:26 AM   
Helpless


Posts: 15793
Joined: 8/27/2004
Status: offline 		Thanks. Will take a look.

_____________________________

Pavel Zagzin
WITE/WITW/WITE-2 Development

(in reply to Gremell)
Post #: 12
RE: Fighter intercept bugged 1.05 latest beta - 12/5/2011 6:47:16 AM   
KenchiSulla


Posts: 2948
Joined: 10/22/2008
From: the Netherlands
Status: offline 		Pavel, I don't have a save game as it is a server based game. Helio is my opponent and he didn't mention he was flying night missions but he could confirm it..

It seems to be unique to supply runs...

< Message edited by Cannonfodder -- 12/5/2011 6:48:13 AM >

_____________________________

AKA Cannonfodder

"It happened, therefore it can happen again: this is the core of what we have to say. It can happen, and it can happen everywhere.”
¯ Primo Levi, writer, holocaust survivor

(in reply to Helpless)
Post #: 13
RE: Fighter intercept bugged 1.05 latest beta - 12/5/2011 11:47:27 AM   
Helpless


Posts: 15793
Joined: 8/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Hi Pavel.

Attached is my savegame from the end of turn 208 in the campaign game.

I'm playing against the Soviet AI.

To replicate the lack of Soviet fighter interception, continue the game into turn 209 and use the bomb unit function against the Soviets. You'll also see the same lack of Soviet fighter interception when the Luftwaffe provides ground support for land attacks.

It happens all over the front, but the effect is most dramatic in the north where the bulk of both air forces is located.


I took a look into the save. The problem is in the way AI handles air resources:
- Air bases attached to non-Air HQs
- Air bases located too far away from the front (especially those with fighters)
- Air commands have uneven distribution of the various plane types. For example, in your screenshot 13th Air army has 0 fighters available.
...

After slight adjustment I had no problem with Soviet interceptions.



_____________________________

Pavel Zagzin
WITE/WITW/WITE-2 Development

(in reply to Gremell)
Post #: 14
RE: Fighter intercept bugged 1.05 latest beta - 12/5/2011 1:10:30 PM   
Helpless


Posts: 15793
Joined: 8/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

It seems to be unique to supply runs...


New intercept requirements suggest that range from the fighter base to the interception hex should be less then path over the enemy (poe) hex rating.
POE is incremented:
For the target hex:
Either
+ 3 If target hex is adjacent to the enemy unit rating or target hex controlled by enemy
or
+ 2 If target hex is adjacent to enemy hex (no unit)

for the path
either
+ 2 for every hex enemy hex strike flight is crossing
or
+ 1 for every isolated hex strike flight is crossing

Based on your screenshot POE could be very low (target hex is not near the front line), it means that marked base will have no chance to intercept particular flight.

In general I like the addition and the way it is done, but it looks a bit too restrictive to my taste. I'll discuss it with Gary.


_____________________________

Pavel Zagzin
WITE/WITW/WITE-2 Development

(in reply to KenchiSulla)
Post #: 15
RE: Fighter intercept bugged 1.05 latest beta - 12/5/2011 1:40:51 PM   
gingerbread


Posts: 2994
Joined: 1/4/2007
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		"for the path
either
+ 2 for every hex enemy hex strike flight is crossing
or
+ 1 for every isolated hex strike flight is crossing"

Shouldn't this be an AND condition?

Example:

In the '42 scenario at start. The Axis isolates the units north of Smolensk-Vyazma by capturing 89,45. The Soviets in their turn fly Airdrop from 106,49 to drop in 90,47. The path first crosses 10 enemy hexes and then 1 isolated. With either-or as condition, total poe is +1.

(in reply to Helpless)
Post #: 16
RE: Fighter intercept bugged 1.05 latest beta - 12/5/2011 4:05:56 PM   
heliodorus04


Posts: 1647
Joined: 11/1/2008
From: Nashville TN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cannonfodder

Pavel, I don't have a save game as it is a server based game. Helio is my opponent and he didn't mention he was flying night missions but he could confirm it..

It seems to be unique to supply runs...


NOT night missions.
Also, most of the flight path was entirely over friendly terrain. Only a few hexes (5 or 6 hexes) were over ground that was not mine at turn start, and of those, I believe 4 of the 5 were mine at the time of the supply flight.



_____________________________

Fall 2021-Playing: Stalingrad'42 (GMT); Advanced Squad Leader,
Reading: Masters of the Air (GREAT BOOK!)
Rulebooks: ASL (always ASL), Middle-Earth Strategy Battle Game
Painting: WHFB Lizardmen leaders

(in reply to KenchiSulla)
Post #: 17
RE: Fighter intercept bugged 1.05 latest beta - 12/5/2011 4:09:23 PM   
Helpless


Posts: 15793
Joined: 8/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Shouldn't this be an AND condition?

Example:

In the '42 scenario at start. The Axis isolates the units north of Smolensk-Vyazma by capturing 89,45. The Soviets in their turn fly Airdrop from 106,49 to drop in 90,47. The path first crosses 10 enemy hexes and then 1 isolated. With either-or as condition, total poe is +1.


Condition is for each hex. In your example POE=10x2+1

_____________________________

Pavel Zagzin
WITE/WITW/WITE-2 Development

(in reply to gingerbread)
Post #: 18
RE: Fighter intercept bugged 1.05 latest beta - 12/5/2011 9:44:26 PM   
KenchiSulla


Posts: 2948
Joined: 10/22/2008
From: the Netherlands
Status: offline 		The gameplay effect is that it will be near impossible to intercept supply flights. I don't think the soviets were capable of intercepting behind enemy lines very well so in that regard it is ok.

It will be very easy for axis to run supply missions unescorted now which is abusable ofcourse..



_____________________________

AKA Cannonfodder

"It happened, therefore it can happen again: this is the core of what we have to say. It can happen, and it can happen everywhere.”
¯ Primo Levi, writer, holocaust survivor

(in reply to Helpless)
Post #: 19
RE: Fighter intercept bugged 1.05 latest beta - 12/6/2011 12:29:32 AM   
gingerbread


Posts: 2994
Joined: 1/4/2007
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		It also depends on if hexes that are pending friendly control are 'enemy' or not for the purpose of poe.

(in reply to KenchiSulla)
Post #: 20
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