Slitherine

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ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

Pelton, not saying what you say is wrong (you might be right), but I would really like to know how you can fight, especially in the south.

Listen up, what's the standard offensive CV of a German division? 12? 13? 14? The standard offensive CV of a Soviet rifle division is 1. A miserable ANT. How in the world are you expecting a fight? This is a bloody MASSACRE! It's like expecting Stan Lauren to fight toe-to-toe with Muhammad Ali! Can't you see that? Are you that blind?

All you can do is harass, infiltrate, and sometimes, when you're lucky mass your forces and defeat a lone German unit. Forget about resisting too, as German infantry will vaporize everything. And on top of that, utter mobile units that will attack your flanks and surround dozens of your worthless units... Game over.

You want a fight? Give me (in 1941) Soviet Rifle Divisions with offensive CVs minimum 6 and decent defensive CVs and I guarantee you the fight you are looking for. Anywhere, anytime you want.

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ORIGINAL: Pelton

I very much see your poiint of view and would 100% do what most Russian players are doing. Its the box we have all been herded into.

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ORIGINAL: JAMiAM
When one is up to their ears in alligators, it is difficult to remember that their initial task was to drain the swamp.

I think this sums up the case of players who are wondering "why are we fighting" as well as the original antagonists. The Nazis may have had some sort of overarching sociopolitical goal when they crossed the border in 1941. However, what that was went out the window very shortly afterwards, when Germany and the Soviet Union were locked into a war of survival - one that would only end with the unconditional surrender of the other.

In game terms, the victory of one or the other is loosely tied to valuations of the geography of the map. Barring a runaway victory by the Axis (sudden death) the game will be decided by the benchmark set by the developers at the end of the game. Like our historical counterparts, why we fight quickly devolves into the only real metric - to survive, and therefore "win".

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ORIGINAL: Pelton

Basicly because 1.05 is what we will all have to live with for a long long while unless a player puts in the time and can edit a game that will be more of an interesting 41-42.

Game balance as far as when things will end is probably not far off 45ish all things being equal, but the game lacks a historical feel as far as the struggle that happened during 1941 through 1942.

Pelton

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All risk no reward.

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24.3 SUDDEN DEATH VICTORY CONDITIONS:
Before the start of the game, each player must secretly write down an objective (city or oil well) for each year from 1942 through 1945—a total of four objectives for each player. At the start of the first clear weather turn of each year, each player reveals his objective for that year. A player wins IMMEDIATELY if at that point he controls both his own objective and his opponent's objective for that year.

24.4 If neither player controls both objectives, then there is no winner at that point and the game continues to the next year.

24.5 Each player must choose each year's objective from a list of possible objectives for that year. The Axis player must choose his 1942 objective from the Axis 1942 list of objectives, and the Russian player must choose his 1942 objective from the listed Russian 1942 objectives, etc.

24.6 In 1942, the Axis player may choose either Dnepropetrovsk, Bryansk or Leningrad. For 1943 he must choose either Leningrad, Kharkov or the oil well at PP13. For 1944 he must choose Sevastopol, Riga or Kiev. For 1945 he must choose Warsaw, Lwow—or he may choose as his objective eliminating the
Stalin counter.

24.7 For 1942, the Russian must choose either Sevastopol, Kalinin or Kharkov for his objective. For 1943, he must choose Voronezh, Moscow or Stalingrad.
For 1944, he must choose Leningrad, Rostov or Kursk. For 1945 he must choose Bucharest, Berlin—or he may choose to eliminate the Hitler counter as his objective.

24.8 If neither player has won by the second clear weather turn in 1945, use the Campaign Victory Conditions (24.1 above) to determine a winner—or a draw.

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16.1.2 VICTORY LEVELS: After adjustment, if the victory level unit points to “0”, the game so far is a “tie”, otherwise check the “Victory Levels” columns on the VICTORY POINTS CHART, cross-gridding the current victory points shown on the CURRENT VICTORY LEVEL CHART with the current date. The letter found shows the level of victory, as follows:
D: Decisive victory for the side showing “+” victory points. The game is over and automatically ends at this point.
M: Marginal victory for the side showing “+” victory points. That side has an edge, but the outcome could still be reversed. The result can be accepted by mutual player agreement and the game can be ended at this point, or play can continue for another six-month period (unless this is Turn 42, and the game must end with a marginal victory result).
T: Tie. No one is winning, even though one side has some victory points. Like a marginal victory, the game may be ended here or continued (unless it is Turn 42).
16.1.3 HISTORIC VICTORY LEVELS: If desired, check the “HIS” column on the VICTORY POINTS CHART to see the victory points of the actual campaign (won decisively by the Soviet Union by May, 1944).

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The game is an “Alternate History Creator” that focuses
on simulating the logistic and command and control problems that the historical commanders
on the Eastern Front had to deal with. It will allow players to explore many of the strategic and
operational “What ifs” that have been discussed by historians and armchair strategists for
many years. As such, economic and research based “what ifs” are not the focus."

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ORIGINAL: Mehring

I notice that when you stack units, their individual defensive CVs do not add up as in most counter games, but apparently multiply. I like this. Two divisions on a 10 mile front will be more than twice as difficult to attack than just one.