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On the same day.. - 12/7/2011 9:04:17 PM   
Helpless


Posts: 15793
Joined: 8/27/2004
Status: offline 		a year ago -> link

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Pavel Zagzin
WITE/WITW/WITE-2 Development
Post #: 1
RE: On the same day.. - 12/7/2011 9:26:38 PM   
TulliusDetritus


Posts: 5521
Joined: 4/1/2004
From: The Zone™
Status: offline 		Just for a moment I thought this was about "Yesterday, December 7, 1941—a date which will live in infamy—the United States of America was suddenly and deliberately attacked by naval and air forces of the Empire of Japan". Wrong forum

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a nu cheeki breeki iv damke

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Post #: 2
RE: On the same day.. - 12/7/2011 10:40:24 PM   
Commanderski


Posts: 927
Joined: 12/12/2010
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

a year ago -> link


And it's been a great year! Keep up the good work!

(in reply to Helpless)
Post #: 3
RE: On the same day.. - 12/7/2011 10:46:47 PM   
Aurelian

 

Posts: 3916
Joined: 2/26/2007
Status: offline 		A year already. Where did it go.

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Post #: 4
RE: On the same day.. - 12/7/2011 11:59:29 PM   
elmo3

 

Posts: 5820
Joined: 1/22/2002
Status: offline 		Happy Birthday WitE.  

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WitE alpha/beta tester
Sanctus Reach beta tester
Desert War 1940-42 beta tester

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Post #: 5
RE: On the same day.. - 12/8/2011 2:45:29 AM   
wadortch

 

Posts: 259
Joined: 3/19/2011
From: Darrington, WA, USA
Status: offline 		Playing WITE has become something of a job that I am getting older at. It's an old wargamer's dream to have such before you and not have to devote half your house space to set it up and tweezer's to move all the counters in the big battle locations. The support that 2x3 has provided since its birthday has been awesome,

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Walt

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Post #: 6
RE: On the same day.. - 12/8/2011 11:30:48 AM   
BletchleyGeek


Posts: 4713
Joined: 11/26/2009
From: Living in the fair city of Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline 		Happy b-day WitE :)

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Post #: 7
RE: On the same day.. - 12/8/2011 12:33:55 PM   
karonagames


Posts: 4712
Joined: 7/10/2006
From: The Duchy of Cornwall, nr England
Status: offline 		I remember it well - And HQs still vanish without warning!!!

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Post #: 8
RE: On the same day.. - 12/8/2011 10:24:10 PM   
Wheat

 

Posts: 154
Joined: 6/17/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BigAnorak

I remember it well - And HQs still vanish without warning!!!


At least the support hasn't vanished without warning!!!

(in reply to karonagames)
Post #: 9
RE: On the same day.. - 12/9/2011 12:30:42 AM   
bcgames


Posts: 2527
Joined: 6/2/2010
From: Bramble Rose Farm, KS
Status: offline 		Yep, I bought it on day one. I think I've received my money's worth and then some for entertainment value.

(in reply to Wheat)
Post #: 10
RE: On the same day.. - 12/7/2012 7:14:48 PM   
Helpless


Posts: 15793
Joined: 8/27/2004
Status: offline 		another year have passed..

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Pavel Zagzin
WITE/WITW/WITE-2 Development

(in reply to bcgames)
Post #: 11
RE: On the same day.. - 12/7/2012 7:30:31 PM   
Apollo11


Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline 		Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Helpless

a year ago -> link





Leo "Apollo11"

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Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

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Post #: 12
RE: On the same day.. - 12/7/2012 7:36:24 PM   
Ketza


Posts: 2227
Joined: 1/14/2007
From: Columbia, Maryland
Status: offline 		Thanks to WITE and WITPAE my addiction to online MMORPGS was broken.

Thank you Matrix!

(in reply to Apollo11)
Post #: 13
RE: On the same day.. - 12/7/2012 8:18:39 PM   
Peltonx


Posts: 7250
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline 		Wow 2 yrs?

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Post #: 14
RE: On the same day.. - 12/7/2012 10:42:30 PM   
Truppenstab


Posts: 12
Joined: 2/4/2011
Status: offline 		Yes I vaguely remember that day, before it I had a social life. Happy birthday WitE, and I hope for many more.

(in reply to Peltonx)
Post #: 15
RE: On the same day.. - 12/8/2012 4:39:44 PM   
Maximeba

 

Posts: 174
Joined: 8/9/2009
From: Buffalo, NY, USA
Status: offline
quote:

Playing WITE has become something of a job that I am getting older at. It's an old wargamer's dream to have such before you and not have to devote half your house space to set it up and tweezer's to move all the counters in the big battle locations. The support that 2x3 has provided since its birthday has been awesome,


I live in Buffalo, New York where the winters get very cold. I remember playing GDW's War in the East in the basement with my buddie and we had no heat. I was the Russian and when leaning over the board I could seem my breath going accross the entire Eastern Front. So, I guess I have to thank all involved for the comfort and heat.

Thanks,
Wes

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Wes
Allies Forever

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Post #: 16
RE: On the same day.. - 12/8/2012 10:38:05 PM   
randallw

 

Posts: 2057
Joined: 9/2/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: wadortch

Playing WITE has become something of a job that I am getting older at. It's an old wargamer's dream to have such before you and not have to devote half your house space to set it up and tweezer's to move all the counters in the big battle locations. The support that 2x3 has provided since its birthday has been awesome,


Not to mention the earthquakes and great floods suffered on the battlefield, caused by family cats and dogs, which some of your board game compatriots have had to deal with.

(in reply to wadortch)
Post #: 17
RE: On the same day.. - 12/9/2012 7:24:52 AM   
Michael T


Posts: 4443
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: offline 		Best PC game I have played ever. Many thanks to the Devs and Testers

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Post #: 18
RE: On the same day.. - 12/9/2012 10:35:19 AM   
Don77

 

Posts: 94
Joined: 5/29/2011
Status: offline 		Awesome,

This game has given me more fun than I think I asked for - or more pain and micro management than I deserve. I have vived memories of the board game in '81 - in my next-door neighbours basement (too) - it took us a week to set up, and I think we played until late '41 before we graduated and packed up. Thanks dudes, and to all those who contribute to the forums and the undertsanding,

Don

(in reply to Michael T)
Post #: 19
RE: On the same day.. - 12/9/2012 3:07:04 PM   
Ketza


Posts: 2227
Joined: 1/14/2007
From: Columbia, Maryland
Status: offline 		Part of me really misses the old days of FITE spread out with all those counters and 2 teams of 6 guys playing marathon 12-16 hour days over a weekend just to play 5 or 6 turns.

Stale donuts and bad coffee plus little sleep led to some very tense times and bad moves!

(in reply to Don77)
Post #: 20
RE: On the same day.. - 12/9/2012 4:05:55 PM   
mmarquo


Posts: 1376
Joined: 9/26/2000
Status: offline 		Every game has warts; the ability to move quicker on the PC and to find a large stable of online opponents, and then post and share impressions in public may give a false impression about how "broken" a game like WITE is. In fact, every board game I have ever played has quirks and often much worse. WITE is awesome; even the most vocal and insulting whiners keep at it which is testimony as to how good it really is.

Happy Birthday, WITE.

Marquo

(in reply to Ketza)
Post #: 21
RE: On the same day.. - 12/9/2012 11:56:25 PM   
Chaplain Lovejoy

 

Posts: 11
Joined: 5/28/2001
From: Cincinnati
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ketza

Part of me really misses the old days of FITE spread out with all those counters and 2 teams of 6 guys playing marathon 12-16 hour days over a weekend just to play 5 or 6 turns.

Stale donuts and bad coffee plus little sleep led to some very tense times and bad moves!

Ah, what life was like before marriage!

(in reply to Ketza)
Post #: 22
RE: On the same day.. - 12/9/2012 11:59:53 PM   
Maximeba

 

Posts: 174
Joined: 8/9/2009
From: Buffalo, NY, USA
Status: offline
quote:

Part of me really misses the old days of FITE spread out with all those counters and 2 teams of 6 guys playing marathon 12-16 hour days over a weekend just to play 5 or 6 turns.


I still have that game. Dave and myself use to travel to Columbus, Ohio for a gaming convention just to play the game against other opponents. For a long time I thought Dave and myself where the only wackos to play that game. Boy! Was I surprised when I saw how many people enjoyed playing that game. I do miss the conventions and the comrades I made. I wonder how the guru (Rich Valey) is doing.




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Wes
Allies Forever

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Post #: 23
RE: On the same day.. - 12/10/2012 11:56:57 AM   
BletchleyGeek


Posts: 4713
Joined: 11/26/2009
From: Living in the fair city of Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline 		As Marquo said, with warts and all, this is THE best ever done on the Eastern Front at this scale. The greatest injustice - from my personal standpoint - is that I really think WITE shines brighter in the scenarios than in the GC, and scenarios aren't half as popular as they could or should be (and this observation is based on counting the number of AAR's covering scenarios vs. Grand Campaigns).

In any case, I'll be having an IPA for 2by3.

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Post #: 24
RE: On the same day.. - 12/10/2012 4:29:52 PM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 32265
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline 		Interesting stat - The breakdown of games started on the server in the past month is as follows:

59% 1941-45 Alternate Campaign
22% 1941-45 Standard Camapign
16% Scenario
3% Other Campaign

Although I appreciate why the interest will always be greater in the long campaign, I think that some of the medium sized scenarios like Drama on the Danube and Decision in the Ukraine can be more exciting (certainly faster to play).

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All understanding comes after the fact.
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Post #: 25
RE: On the same day.. - 12/10/2012 7:32:43 PM   
Michael T


Posts: 4443
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: offline 		I recall all the negativity from some when a few of us suggested the alt campaign. Nice to see it has been vindicated. Thanks again to Joel and crew for the moded scenario. Could we get some Auto VP for early Russian wins sometime

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Post #: 26
RE: On the same day.. - 12/10/2012 7:54:09 PM   
Maximeba

 

Posts: 174
Joined: 8/9/2009
From: Buffalo, NY, USA
Status: offline 		What is the difference between the alternate and the standard game?

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Wes
Allies Forever

(in reply to Michael T)
Post #: 27
RE: On the same day.. - 12/10/2012 9:36:47 PM   
Michael T


Posts: 4443
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: offline 		The game ends in July 45 rather than October 45 and the German Auto Win VP requirement was reduced from 290 to 260.

< Message edited by Michael T -- 12/10/2012 9:37:08 PM >

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Post #: 28
RE: On the same day.. - 12/10/2012 11:04:54 PM   
Flaviusx


Posts: 7750
Joined: 9/9/2009
From: Southern California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael T

I recall all the negativity from some when a few of us suggested the alt campaign. Nice to see it has been vindicated. Thanks again to Joel and crew for the moded scenario. Could we get some Auto VP for early Russian wins sometime


It's obviously popular, but also wrongheaded. Those of us who do not believe a Soviet surrender would happen in these conditions haven't changed our minds. I continue to believe the alternate victory conditions have a built in asymmetry since the Soviet has no sudden death victory conditions except the old fashioned way of marching all the way to Berlin (which is correct) while the Axis gets a shortcut (which is not.)

As a practical matter very few games have changed in terms of their outcome due to the alt scenario VPs. The main effect of the alternate scenario has been to urge maybe a few Soviet players to resign games that would have gone on to a German victory anyways under the standard rule set. Axis player incentives remain the same in either case.

The one positive change of the alt scenario was to cut short the campaign to July of 45. It shouldn't ever have gone on so far as September as it becomes a pure fantasy game by that point.

I am not so sure that a sudden death VP for the Soviets is a good idea, either, btw. Rather, what I would do is to require the same existing conditions to apply for game end on the Soviet, but adjust the final outcome victory level in favor of the Soviet if the Axis decides to turtle early. That way, they need to do more than hold Berlin to even get a draw by July of 45. That would instead be a minor Soviet win.

Generally, I prefer these kinds of adjustments to the final tally over a premature ending in a campaign scenario setting.







< Message edited by Flaviusx -- 12/10/2012 11:32:01 PM >

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Post #: 29
RE: On the same day.. - 12/10/2012 11:32:42 PM   
BletchleyGeek


Posts: 4713
Joined: 11/26/2009
From: Living in the fair city of Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael T

I recall all the negativity from some when a few of us suggested the alt campaign. Nice to see it has been vindicated. Thanks again to Joel and crew for the moded scenario. Could we get some Auto VP for early Russian wins sometime


It's obviously popular, but also wrongheaded. Those of us who do not believe a Soviet surrender would happen in these conditions haven't changed our minds. I continue to believe the alternate victory conditions have a built in asymmetry since the Soviet has no sudden death victory conditions except the old fashioned way of marching all the way to Berlin (which is correct) while the Axis gets a shortcut (which is not.)


I used to share your position on this matter Flavio, but now I've come to grips with it. Rather than considering it to portray the surrender of the Soviet Union, I consider it to portray the event of the whole of the STAVKA given a one-way ride to Lubyanka

quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx
As a practical matter very few games have changed in terms of their outcome due to the alt scenario VPs. The main effect of the alternate scenario has been to urge maybe a few Soviet players to resign games that would have gone on to a German victory anyways under the standard rule set. Axis player incentives remain the same in either case.

The one positive change of the alt scenario was to cut short the campaign to July of 45. It shouldn't ever have gone on so far as September as it becomes a pure fantasy game by that point.


Yet I have to agree with you on the particular point I highlighted, but I'll add something more: there's is no change in the incentives for either side. I think WitE scenarios are much more interesting mostly because of the much richer Victory Condition system in place for scenarios, which do really create reasons for players to feel compelled to do things in certain ways, which I deem - subjectively, of course - more historical and interesting.

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