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Pioniere uber alles ?

 
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Pioniere uber alles ? - 12/10/2011 5:07:23 AM   
PKH

 

Posts: 242
Joined: 11/17/2011
Status: offline 		I feel both PC and the originals suffer from the fact that the engineers are by far the best option for infantry. IMO, this is bad both from a historic and from a gameplay perspective. An idea I think could be interesting is to change engineers so that they instead of ignoring entrenchment, would significantly reduce the entrenchment level of attacked units, and also do more suppression than damage. This would make it more effective to use engineers together with other infantry. If others have thoughts on this, I'd like to hear them.
Post #: 1
RE: Pioniere uber alles ? - 12/10/2011 8:15:28 AM   
Rood


Posts: 68
Joined: 7/16/2011
Status: offline 		I can't say that I feel the game suffers from the way engineers are implemented but all my infantry is engineer. I've played with other setups aswell for example using more para or mountain units, however I always come back to the engineers.

Engineers are not holy though, the lack of soft attack values, initiative and especially movement makes them good for mostly one thing only and that is attacking entrenched units and forts.
And most of the time I always surpress an enemy unit (or reduce it's strenght with air attacks) before I sent in the engineers. Most of the time the engineers have less initiave than the unit they attacks so if they are not surpressed they will take too many losses.

Engineers are very strong in some aspects and weak(er) in others so for me it balances out.

(in reply to PKH)
Post #: 2
RE: Pioniere uber alles ? - 12/10/2011 3:04:13 PM   
AbeSimpson


Posts: 151
Joined: 6/23/2008
Status: offline 		Most of my Inf are Pioniere but a good part are Grenadiere and Mountain. So I could use my Inf more
versatile.Certain circumstances asking for certain Inf and my losses dropped also.


_____________________________

I think I understand what military fame is; to be killed on the field of battle and have your name misspelled in the newspapers.
William Tecumseh Sherman

(in reply to Rood)
Post #: 3
RE: Pioniere uber alles ? - 12/11/2011 9:19:30 AM   
andrewmazlim


Posts: 85
Joined: 8/11/2011
From: Great Britain
Status: offline 		Pionieres & Grenadieres are BY FAR the best infantry - but you need a couple of Paras, too.

_____________________________

"Never in the field of human conflict, has so much, been owed by so many, to so few!"

(in reply to AbeSimpson)
Post #: 4
RE: Pioniere uber alles ? - 12/11/2011 10:38:41 AM   
Three4Flinching


Posts: 25
Joined: 12/4/2011
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		I have been wondering about the difference between the Grenadier and the Pioniere. The only thing I could see by the stats is thta Grenadieres have 1 more in initiative and that Pioneres cost more. I found that strange until I read this post. Where is the information that says that Pionieres are able to avoid entrenchments, is there another info screen about the units?

Threre are other units with similar differences that I can not figure out the advantages with one over the other. 

(in reply to andrewmazlim)
Post #: 5
RE: Pioniere uber alles ? - 12/11/2011 10:50:41 AM   
AbeSimpson


Posts: 151
Joined: 6/23/2008
Status: offline 		I´m thinking about buying a para... or a second recon.


_____________________________

I think I understand what military fame is; to be killed on the field of battle and have your name misspelled in the newspapers.
William Tecumseh Sherman

(in reply to Three4Flinching)
Post #: 6
RE: Pioniere uber alles ? - 12/11/2011 2:29:05 PM   
Rood


Posts: 68
Joined: 7/16/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Three4Flinching

I have been wondering about the difference between the Grenadier and the Pioniere. The only thing I could see by the stats is thta Grenadieres have 1 more in initiative and that Pioneres cost more. I found that strange until I read this post. Where is the information that says that Pionieres are able to avoid entrenchments, is there another info screen about the units?

Threre are other units with similar differences that I can not figure out the advantages with one over the other. 


Many units have traits, which mean they have a special capability which is (unfortunately) not always directly apparent from the unit screen. To see all units and their traits it is best to open the equipment.pzeqp file in the Data subdirectory of the PzC installation directory.

(in reply to Three4Flinching)
Post #: 7
RE: Pioniere uber alles ? - 12/11/2011 2:57:24 PM   
Three4Flinching


Posts: 25
Joined: 12/4/2011
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		Hmm, thats unfortunate, hard to make a tactical decision when you do not have all the unit information available. Hope they will adress this in a later patch.

(in reply to Rood)
Post #: 8
RE: Pioniere uber alles ? - 12/11/2011 5:05:43 PM   
James Ward

 

Posts: 1183
Joined: 5/9/2000
From: Baltimore, Maryland, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Three4Flinching

I have been wondering about the difference between the Grenadier and the Pioniere. The only thing I could see by the stats is thta Grenadieres have 1 more in initiative and that Pioneres cost more. I found that strange until I read this post. Where is the information that says that Pionieres are able to avoid entrenchments, is there another info screen about the units?

Threre are other units with similar differences that I can not figure out the advantages with one over the other. 


Wait until you get a standard infantry with 1 or 2 plus 1 movement heroes. They can keep up with the Panthers!

(in reply to Three4Flinching)
Post #: 9
RE: Pioniere uber alles ? - 12/11/2011 5:06:50 PM   
James Ward

 

Posts: 1183
Joined: 5/9/2000
From: Baltimore, Maryland, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AbeSimpson

I´m thinking about buying a para... or a second recon.



Rent your paratroopers. Buy the recon.

(in reply to AbeSimpson)
Post #: 10
RE: Pioniere uber alles ? - 12/11/2011 5:21:24 PM   
AbeSimpson


Posts: 151
Joined: 6/23/2008
Status: offline 		That´s what I did. :D

_____________________________

I think I understand what military fame is; to be killed on the field of battle and have your name misspelled in the newspapers.
William Tecumseh Sherman

(in reply to James Ward)
Post #: 11
RE: Pioniere uber alles ? - 12/11/2011 9:39:35 PM   
Razz1


Posts: 2560
Joined: 10/21/2007
From: CaLiForNia
Status: offline 		Your missing out on the big picture if you don't use regular infantry.

they can immediately attack forward troops and make way for the panzers. They can even dislodge the enemy.

(in reply to AbeSimpson)
Post #: 12
RE: Pioniere uber alles ? - 5/11/2012 2:43:30 PM   
Warhangel


Posts: 13
Joined: 5/11/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rood

quote:

ORIGINAL: Three4Flinching

I have been wondering about the difference between the Grenadier and the Pioniere. The only thing I could see by the stats is thta Grenadieres have 1 more in initiative and that Pioneres cost more. I found that strange until I read this post. Where is the information that says that Pionieres are able to avoid entrenchments, is there another info screen about the units?

Threre are other units with similar differences that I can not figure out the advantages with one over the other. 


Many units have traits, which mean they have a special capability which is (unfortunately) not always directly apparent from the unit screen. To see all units and their traits it is best to open the equipment.pzeqp file in the Data subdirectory of the PzC installation directory.



I looked equipment.pzeqp in version 1.05 and I see that Fallschirmjäger also have the ability "fortkiller"...


_____________________________

In dedicato Imperatum ultra articulo mortis...

(in reply to Rood)
Post #: 13
RE: Pioniere uber alles ? - 5/27/2012 10:47:36 PM   
cato13

 

Posts: 453
Joined: 6/29/2005
From: scotland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rood

quote:

ORIGINAL: Three4Flinching

I have been wondering about the difference between the Grenadier and the Pioniere. The only thing I could see by the stats is thta Grenadieres have 1 more in initiative and that Pioneres cost more. I found that strange until I read this post. Where is the information that says that Pionieres are able to avoid entrenchments, is there another info screen about the units?

Threre are other units with similar differences that I can not figure out the advantages with one over the other. 


Many units have traits, which mean they have a special capability which is (unfortunately) not always directly apparent from the unit screen. To see all units and their traits it is best to open the equipment.pzeqp file in the Data subdirectory of the PzC installation directory.




would the german 88 be an example of this? pak 38's have better anti tank stats than it but it sure does a good job of nailing tanks.

(in reply to Rood)
Post #: 14
RE: Pioniere uber alles ? - 5/29/2012 1:21:01 PM   
artofwar85

 

Posts: 109
Joined: 5/8/2010
Status: offline 		I tend to loath engineers because of there lack of movement when on foot. But then when I attack with them I yawn cause they always seem to dominate - though I use only like 2 units of them. It is great the pros are always lurking around here giving us vital info that I'm too unlearned to find like this pzeqp file and its nice to know they could get more movement by being a hero. Of course I knew there capabilities because having played this genre for years it is imperitive to have some engees Three4flinchy yeah they should have had better documentation or at least a statement of how to find this pzsnitzle file.

(in reply to cato13)
Post #: 15
RE: Pioniere uber alles ? - 5/29/2012 2:04:24 PM   
artofwar85

 

Posts: 109
Joined: 5/8/2010
Status: offline 		I just ran across a forum at Slitherine that also addresses this issue there is a .pdf showing unit stats I'm to lazy ... busy to check out the mentioned on here equipment stats file but the link to this like 18 page !!! unit stat .pdf is:

http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=121&t=31033

Of course soon as it was posted people began complaining about its format ... lmao VPaulus has already addressed that and Updated it having to take time out of his life to do it but anyway this may help too along with the equiptment file mentioned here it may be now impossible to decide what to do when and what to buy thats the whole point right ???

(in reply to artofwar85)
Post #: 16
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