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On mining asteroid belts - 12/16/2011 11:41:43 AM

myros

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Just a quick question on asteroid belts (the mass grouping of asteroids).

Do mining stations have a 'range' ie if I build a station in the middle of a belt will they mine all the nearby rocks, or is it just the main rock that was targeted when giving the build order?

Cheers,
M

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RE: On mining asteroid belts - 12/16/2011 12:25:56 PM

jpwrunyan

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Uh no.
What is the point of building stations on asteroids anyway? Sometimes they have a high resource value but never more than one resource...
Would it be worth it if I found a 90+ steel asteroid to build an uber-mining station with three extractors and huge cargo holds on it and call my steel shortage done?
Also opposite of the opq, could I build two stations on one asteroid? Ex: mining station and resort station on that solid gold asteroid I found?

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RE: On mining asteroid belts - 12/16/2011 1:21:34 PM

2guncohen

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I had a similar experience like jpwrunyan and the same question : can you stack everything on 1 station ?

I had A astero�d with a 34% toerisme bonus modifier and the rock also contained 90% of some specific mineral.
& the sector had +25% science bonus. So to get it i had to fight of some raktors and a race to get it first before the Ancients stole the spot

Now I wonder will this installation deliver ?

The thing has 4 docks for ships with the needed cargo + A mining installation + A science lab + A toerisme component

and all the needed firepower

to keep this facility protected.

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RE: On mining asteroid belts - 12/16/2011 1:24:59 PM

J HG T

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It should work just fine, 2guncohen. I've made similar multi-purpose tourist bases that are built near black holes or remnants of supernovaes. They house tourists, perform research and mine rare or luxury resources.

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RE: On mining asteroid belts - 12/16/2011 2:52:28 PM

Shark7

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quote:

ORIGINAL: 2guncohen

I had a similar experience like jpwrunyan and the same question : can you stack everything on 1 station ?

I had A astero�d with� a 34% toerisme bonus modifier and the rock also contained 90%� of some specific mineral.�
& the sector had +25% science bonus. So to get it i had to fight of some raktors and a race to get it first before the Ancients stole the spot

Now I wonder will this installation deliver ?

The thing has 4 docks for ships with the needed cargo + A mining installation + A science lab + A toerisme component
and all the needed firepower to keep this facility protected.

Actually I design a special resort/mining station for the asteroids. It works fine, you get the resort income and the resources. Seems your city slicker tourists enjoy mining on vacation...kinda like a dude ranch in space.

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RE: On mining asteroid belts - 12/19/2011 4:31:19 AM

jpwrunyan

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Reminds me of an episode of futurama actually.

Also, so-called "company retreats"

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RE: On mining asteroid belts - 12/19/2011 4:46:25 AM

Nedrear

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They will not work, since the research boni needs it to be a research lab of this kind and the tourism needs it to be a resort base. The mining always works though.

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RE: On mining asteroid belts - 12/19/2011 6:33:17 AM

jpwrunyan

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You get research, just not the research bonus for the location.

Also how many mining components should you have to get optimal output from your mining resort? These places tend to be 90+ resource rich. Surely more than one assuming starting tech levels.

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RE: On mining asteroid belts - 12/19/2011 6:37:57 AM

Nedrear

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Get to te guide section in the war room and read my extraction guide.

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RE: On mining asteroid belts - 12/19/2011 6:46:01 AM

jpwrunyan

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I read that thread like three times and I still dont know how to answer the question. Could you answer it for me? Without the maths? I am guessing the answer is 3? 4 if you dont mind having a bit of overkill?

Side note: what your thread doesnt tell me that i wish it did is: how much % does 1 mining component harvest?

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RE: On mining asteroid belts - 12/19/2011 7:09:57 AM

Nedrear

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The % just tells you the maximum extraction overall. For the device it does not matter. On 10% worlds a 3 point device harvests 3 on a 100% world it harvests 30. The amount never changes. I wrote that there too.

< Message edited by Nedrear -- 12/19/2011 7:11:50 AM >

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RE: On mining asteroid belts - 12/19/2011 7:16:22 AM

Shark7

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quote:

ORIGINAL: myros

Just a quick question on asteroid belts (the mass grouping of asteroids).

Do mining stations have a 'range' ie if I build a station in the middle of a belt will they mine all the nearby rocks, or is it just the main rock that was targeted when giving the build order?

Cheers,
M

On your main question, the mining base only extracts from the rock it is built over. The other rocks will require more mining bases, or better just use mining ships to get those resources.

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RE: On mining asteroid belts - 12/19/2011 7:23:36 AM

Shark7

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nedrear

They will not work, since the research boni needs it to be a research lab of this kind and the tourism needs it to be a resort base. The mining always works though.

No the research pods will work and the resort works if you build it right. Design a resort base with research pods and mining gear/cargo bays. You do generate mining and research points, you just don't get the big research bonus because it is not a specific research base type.

If you build it as a resort base with mining components, cargo bays, and research components, you will get tourism income, you will get research, and it will mine. The only thing you may not get is the research bonus, but it will still function like any other research station (after all how do star port research pods work if not exactly like this?). I've built them like this since the original game and they have always worked. The key is to design it as a resort base, if you don't do that then the resort income doesn't function.

But as research is a bit too fast as it is, building a resort base with research pods is over-kill anyway. Also, unless something changed since ROTS, you can build both a resort base and a research base at Neutron stars and black holes, just not both at a planet.

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RE: On mining asteroid belts - 12/19/2011 7:28:32 AM

Nedrear

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7

...you just don't get the big research bonus because it is not a specific research base type.

Don't quote me to defy my answer and then prove me right in the next sentence. That does not appeal to yourself.
Of course I meant the research boni of that system.

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RE: On mining asteroid belts - 12/19/2011 7:47:26 AM

Shark7

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nedrear

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7

...you just don't get the big research bonus because it is not a specific research base type.

Don't quote me to defy my answer and then prove me right in the next sentence. That does not appeal to yourself.
Of course I meant the research boni of that system.

You were wrong. The way you stated it made it sound as if it would not work at all. And having an attitude will not help your cause.

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RE: On mining asteroid belts - 12/19/2011 7:52:09 AM

Nedrear

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I talked about a research boni in the passage you quoted. How can�I then have meant anything else? The normal output is not a boni...
You just did not read my sentence as I wrote it, instead understood it as you figured.

Now let us get back to topic. I just used my right for neutral self defence.

< Message edited by Nedrear -- 12/19/2011 7:53:47 AM >

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RE: On mining asteroid belts - 12/19/2011 11:02:00 AM

jpwrunyan

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nedrear

The % just tells you the maximum extraction overall. For the device it does not matter. On 10% worlds a 3 point device harvests 3 on a 100% world it harvests 30. The amount never changes. I wrote that there too.

Thank you. That is clear and concise. I know more now. But I do not yet know all. When I do know all you will know too because on that day the universe will end.

So, to go back to my question, how many mining comps would be good on a gold asteroid? Or is it strictly a matter of cargo holds and freight shipments?

I belabor the point because I still do not understand the nuance between 3 vs 4 comps you start with in the other thread. I am starting to think it is irrelavent. Anyway I dont expect you to give an explanation for your answer, since that is in the other thread, but I would be interested in your answer in this circumstance regardless.

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RE: On mining asteroid belts - 12/19/2011 11:21:39 AM

Nedrear

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It is as I mentioned:

3 mines give best efficiency (cost / ressource + overall amount)
4 mines give optimal yield, reaching maximum cap. This is proposed for rare and especially special luxury ressources. The cap waste is puffered by the use of these ressource in greater amount and their price on the market.

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RE: On mining asteroid belts - 12/20/2011 12:08:05 AM

jpwrunyan

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You still dont seem to understand that at this point I am asking your opinion regarding asteroids. Am I just not being clear? I admit it took me a bit to realize what my question actually was.
Last night I found three gold asteroids in one asteroid belt. For fun I built resort stations with 2 mining comps and a little extra cargo space on them. Was this a good idea? I dont know. I assume I have a lot of gold now. My main concern in this thread is when and how to most effectively mine asteroids.
Your thoughts?

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RE: On mining asteroid belts - 12/20/2011 12:11:44 AM

Nedrear

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They got the same rates as planets... and caps. You might have another problem though... did you install a commerce center into the resort mine?

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RE: On mining asteroid belts - 12/20/2011 2:16:18 AM

jpwrunyan

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The resort/mine has a commerce center. I dont believe you can even save the design without one. Anyway, the bases are working fine. I just want to know if I can make them work better.
What are mining caps? Does it depend on the resource%?

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RE: On mining asteroid belts - 12/20/2011 2:28:54 AM

Nedrear

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nedrear

The % just tells you the maximum extraction overall.

Yes as I mentioned before, 90% means a maximum extraction of 90 per week by mining (360 in gases). This is achieved through 3 lv 1 mining devices a 27 units with 81 per week or with four giving 90 a week, wasting 18 of 27 (66%).

If it would be a 45% world it would be 13,5 per mining devices, adding up to 40/45 with three and 45 a week with 9 waste of 13,5, still 66% in waste.

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RE: On mining asteroid belts - 12/20/2011 4:36:36 AM

jpwrunyan

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Hmm..

First, let me see if I understand you.

On planets and asteroids:
N% = N units available per month

On mining bases and ships:
R rate of extraction = R units extracted per week or 3 x R units extracted per month

So far so good?

I have noticed the extraction rate on the design screen seems to vary by number of components in a non-linear fashion.
So instead of focusing on component count I will focus on overall extraction rate of the base in question.

Now, assuming I am correct so far...
On an asteroid with 90% rating, the ideal extraction rate for my base would be 30 (30 per week = 90 units per month = 90%)

On an asteroid with 60%, the ideal station would have a rating of 20.

Etc.

Is this correct? Thank you for bearing with me.

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RE: On mining asteroid belts - 12/20/2011 6:05:42 AM

Nedrear

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No N% = N ressource PER TICK (a week) and N% = 4xN ressource in case of gases.

The extraction is always Rx10 for 100%. The data in your design window calculates for 10% worlds. Therefore keep that in mind. You always need a total extraction of 10 for mines (3,33 mining devices lv 1 in stations). The 10 will scale with the %. You always need the SAME AMOUNT for EVERY ressource and every AMOUNT OF ressource. On a planet with luxury and mining ressources, even if two of both, you only need 4 luxury and 4 mining devices. Though since you get twice cap of two ressources, the wase lowers to 33%.
When mining 3 or more than 3 ressources of one type, 4 becomes the efficient way of extraction.

AGAIN: The maximum extraction rate counts per tick, which is a week. Therefore you should have 90 extracton overall. This means 3 extractors with 81 efficiently and 90 with four through waste.

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RE: On mining asteroid belts - 12/20/2011 6:27:05 AM

jpwrunyan

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Excellent!
The two things that confused me are finally now dancing in harmony.
To paraphrase, in the case of mines, you want an extraction rate of 10 ideally. What you are saying is that since level 1 mines have an extraction rate of 3 you either take 3 components and get 90% of the potential resources or you take 4 components and get 100% (you have a rating of 12 but beyond 10 the rating is meaningless--this is the "waste" you refer to, ie wasted cost for the superfluous 2 extra rating points).

Independent of this, high % resource locations generate more resource in the same amount of time so for mining stations it might be a good idea to put some extra storage on them if they are at a resource rich location, right? Pointless to mine that much if you cant hold it until the freighters get there, right?

Finally, back to asteroids, they may have a high % when compared to many planets, but since they invariably have only one resource, you should consider this when deciding where to build. An asteroid of 90% steel will give you maximum of 90 units but a planet of 50% steel and 50% gold will give you 50 units of each in the same period of time. You dont get as much steel, but you do get more total resources overall.

This is very interesting. Thank you.

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RE: On mining asteroid belts - 12/20/2011 6:38:21 AM

Nedrear

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Well we took long enough to settle that.

Don't forget 4 extractors are always worth it with 3 or more ressources. In that case 3 would be inefficient.

Reason:
1 lv 1 100% extractor generates 30

4 Extractors lv 1 on 1 ressource = 90 + 10 + 66% waste
4 Extractors lv 1 on 2 ressources = 180 + 20 + 66% waste
4 Extractors lv 1 on 3 ressources = 270 + 30 + 66% waste
4 Extractors lv 1 on 4 ressources = 360 + 40 + 66% waste

The waste is 66% meaning 20/30. Therefore you make a win - win situation by 20 as it is an overall ressource bonus of 20 which is the extraction of 66% on a 1 ressource world. With 4 ressources you practically get a bonus considering it a 2 extractor mine on a planet for free. But consider this step only at worthy locations... materials your industry eats a dozen.

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RE: On mining asteroid belts - 12/20/2011 9:37:57 AM

jpwrunyan

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Frankly, I think the 66% waste thing is a bit misleading and unnecessarily confusing. At least for me. You arent wasting resources. Its just the cost to performance ratio of 3 mining components versus 4. On a single resource 100% world it is like 750 spacebucks to get 90 resources versus 1000 spacebucks to get 100. But, as you point out, the cost benefit curve changes dramatically when multiple resources are present and since time and resource market value are also factors, it really makes sense to push your stations to 10 or more extraction rate as long as you can pay the maintenence costs. Even considering maintenance, intuitively it seems wise to have one expensive high yield resource mine versus scattered smaller ones. Particularly if in your home system.
What is the strategic value of a single extractor mine? Just to keep other empires from mining the location? Admitedly caslon fuel stations are an obvious exception--I am thinking about non-gas mines, though.

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RE: On mining asteroid belts - 12/20/2011 10:45:28 AM

Sithuk

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Ned: you should incorporate your post into your mining guide as an overview. The examples given on the game mechanics with multiple resources at a mining location is interesting and would help emphasise the conclusion you reach on your mining guide.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nedrear

Well we took long enough to settle that.

Don't forget 4 extractors are always worth it with 3 or more ressources. In that case 3 would be inefficient.

Reason:
1 lv 1 100% extractor generates 30

4 Extractors lv 1 on 1 ressource = 90 + 10 + 66% waste
4 Extractors lv 1 on 2 ressources = 180 + 20 + 66% waste
4 Extractors lv 1 on 3 ressources = 270 + 30 + 66% waste
4�Extractors lv 1 on 4 ressources = 360 + 40 + 66% waste

The waste is 66% meaning 20/30. Therefore you make a win - win situation by 20 as it is an overall ressource bonus of 20 which is the extraction of 66% on a 1 ressource world. With 4 ressources you practically get a bonus considering it a 2 extractor mine on a planet for free. But consider this step only at worthy locations... materials your industry eats a dozen.