RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR)

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RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 12/18/2011 12:58:32 AM

Red Prince

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From: Bangor, Maine, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

I see no point in USSR keeping the garrison up during 1940 to prevent Germany from breaking the pact when Germany has commited to an assault on Gibraltar. In fact I would then want Germany to break the pact in 1940. Less oil for Germany then and that is an advantage for the Allies.

So I would ignore the fact that Germany might be able to break the pact and send the units to Iraq. The faster the better since it is nice to have them back before Germany is in a position to DOW USSR. And USSR might be able to garrison the border later if Germany do not break the pact when (if) it gets the opportunity during the 1940 summer.

Even though they are going through Spain, Germany still has 17 Land Units on the Nazi-Soviet Pact border at the moment. This doesn't include potential Finnish units or (minimal) air forces. I know that the USSR gets some very nice reserve units to help out once the DOW is made, but if they move a total of 5 units off the border to take Iraq, Germany can still start doing some damage in Russia in '40.

Also, Germany has HQ-A Guderian, 3 other land units, and 2 very nice LND coming in at the start of the next turn. The Soviets have a GARR and a LND. With Germany able to rail 3 units per Land impulse, and the USSR only able to rail 1 per Combined, it will take all of M/J '40 just to get the troops in place to take Iraq, most of J/A '40 to actually get the job done because of the mountains between Persia and Iraq, and then 4 more impulses to get the troops back to the Nazi-Soviet Pact border. And there are still 2 units from Siberia that need to finish the journey across the massive Asian continent.

I just don't see how it can be done at this point without a great risk of being completely out of position. If I had begun planning this 2 turns ago, maybe, but now? I don't know. To this point I've only been looking at a '41 Barb at the earliest, so I haven't been positioning the Soviets to maximum defensive advantage -- the Communists have been using up a lot of the Soviet land moves. If the USSR tempted Germany into an early DOW, it could be as disastrous as the situation in WWII reality.

_____________________________

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it!
-Lazarus Long, RAH

(in reply to Orm)

Post #: 511

RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 12/18/2011 1:11:42 AM

Orm

Posts: 22154
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

I see no point in USSR keeping the garrison up during 1940 to prevent Germany from breaking the pact when Germany has commited to an assault on Gibraltar. In fact I would then want Germany to break the pact in 1940. Less oil for Germany then and that is an advantage for the Allies.

So I would ignore the fact that Germany might be able to break the pact and send the units to Iraq. The faster the better since it is nice to have them back before Germany is in a position to DOW USSR. And USSR might be able to garrison the border later if Germany do not break the pact when (if) it gets the opportunity during the 1940 summer.

Even though they are going through Spain, Germany still has 17 Land Units on the Nazi-Soviet Pact border at the moment. This doesn't include potential Finnish units or (minimal) air forces. I know that the USSR gets some very nice reserve units to help out once the DOW is made, but if they move a total of 5 units off the border to take Iraq, Germany can still start doing some damage in Russia in '40.

Also, Germany has HQ-A Guderian, 3 other land units, and 2 very nice LND coming in at the start of the next turn. The Soviets have a GARR and a LND. With Germany able to rail 3 units per Land impulse, and the USSR only able to rail 1 per Combined, it will take all of M/J '40 just to get the troops in place to take Iraq, most of J/A '40 to actually get the job done because of the mountains between Persia and Iraq, and then 4 more impulses to get the troops back to the Nazi-Soviet Pact border. And there are still 2 units from Siberia that need to finish the journey across the massive Asian continent.

I just don't see how it can be done at this point without a great risk of being completely out of position. If I had begun planning this 2 turns ago, maybe, but now? I don't know. To this point I've only been looking at a '41 Barb at the earliest, so I haven't been positioning the Soviets to maximum defensive advantage -- the Communists have been using up a lot of the Soviet land moves. If the USSR tempted Germany into an early DOW, it could be as disastrous as the situation in WWII reality.

Not much to argue against but will it not be even more trouble for USSR if Germany gets hold of Iraq?

I think I rather would secure Iraq than put presure on Finland if that is an option.

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Post #: 512

RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 12/18/2011 3:21:23 AM

Red Prince

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Joined: 4/8/2011
From: Bangor, Maine, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

I see no point in USSR keeping the garrison up during 1940 to prevent Germany from breaking the pact when Germany has commited to an assault on Gibraltar. In fact I would then want Germany to break the pact in 1940. Less oil for Germany then and that is an advantage for the Allies.

So I would ignore the fact that Germany might be able to break the pact and send the units to Iraq. The faster the better since it is nice to have them back before Germany is in a position to DOW USSR. And USSR might be able to garrison the border later if Germany do not break the pact when (if) it gets the opportunity during the 1940 summer.

Even though they are going through Spain, Germany still has 17 Land Units on the Nazi-Soviet Pact border at the moment. This doesn't include potential Finnish units or (minimal) air forces. I know that the USSR gets some very nice reserve units to help out once the DOW is made, but if they move a total of 5 units off the border to take Iraq, Germany can still start doing some damage in Russia in '40.

Also, Germany has HQ-A Guderian, 3 other land units, and 2 very nice LND coming in at the start of the next turn. The Soviets have a GARR and a LND. With Germany able to rail 3 units per Land impulse, and the USSR only able to rail 1 per Combined, it will take all of M/J '40 just to get the troops in place to take Iraq, most of J/A '40 to actually get the job done because of the mountains between Persia and Iraq, and then 4 more impulses to get the troops back to the Nazi-Soviet Pact border. And there are still 2 units from Siberia that need to finish the journey across the massive Asian continent.

I just don't see how it can be done at this point without a great risk of being completely out of position. If I had begun planning this 2 turns ago, maybe, but now? I don't know. To this point I've only been looking at a '41 Barb at the earliest, so I haven't been positioning the Soviets to maximum defensive advantage -- the Communists have been using up a lot of the Soviet land moves. If the USSR tempted Germany into an early DOW, it could be as disastrous as the situation in WWII reality.

Not much to argue against but will it not be even more trouble for USSR if Germany gets hold of Iraq?

I think I rather would secure Iraq than put presure on Finland if that is an option.

It would have been an option, but I already started the buildup against Finland. Right now, there is little that can be done against Iraq with the Euro Axis. I have 2 Corps, MOT and MECH heading to Libya, but still will need to get an HQ there for Italy to make any headway in Egypt. An invasion of the Middle-East is now difficult (no AMPH) and so Egypt will have to be finished off first (if possible) before they can make a bid for Iraq.

_____________________________

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it!
-Lazarus Long, RAH

(in reply to Orm)

Post #: 513

RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 12/18/2011 1:25:29 PM

Centuur

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From: Hoorn (NED).
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Without the Dutch TRS and the loss of one of them this turn, things aren't looking good for the CW. The CW hasn't got the sealift available to get defenses in place at all the threathened area's.
"He who tries to defend everything, defends nothing". This is a very important thing to take into account. If you can't get a reasonable defense in an area: get out of the place. You can't defend Egypt properly, because it can be put out of supply by the Italians (if he flies a NAV into the Red Sea). To counter this, the CW has to get FTR's into Egypt, however: he also needs to sea lift land units to Morocco and Spain...
Since you are short of TRS, I would suggest to empty Egypt. You are not able to get re�nforcements to that area in time, when you have to defend in Spain too. Try to get Wavell out of the place and into Spain or Morocco (with a large fleet covering you're TRS against the Italians). This gives you another HQ in an area where the CW is capable to re�nforce, because of the small distance between the UK and Spain/Morocco. Defend Gibraltar with all you've got and let the Italians grab Suez (that's good for US entry, also...).

Of course you can say that the CW has to defend the place, to prevent the Italians from capturing Suez and aligning Iraq, because of the USSR and so on. However: when the CW is short of TRS, he cannot reinforce all area's under attack. If he had 5 TRS available, things were looking different. However, he's only got three around...

The USSR should take the Finnish Borderlands, because he is now in the position to do so. The thing the USSR cannot afford to do is to constantly react on Axis movements towards one place or another. With only combined impulses it takes far to long for uncle Joe to build up the forces needed to get something done. Of course, when the USSR grabs Persia, he should always kill Iraq immediately after taking Persia. That's is also another reason why I would wait with a DoW on Persia. Simply because it takes so long to gather forces on a particular place to put pressure on accepting claims and you have US entry to take into consideration. So first I would rail Zhukov to the Rumanian Border, claim Bessarabia, together with the European army. Than I would rail him to the Persian border, see how the war in France is going and start grabbing both Persia and Iraq. 1940 is far better for this than 1939, since US entry values are much lower in 1940...

< Message edited by Centuur -- 12/18/2011 1:34:20 PM >

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Peter

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Post #: 514

RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 12/18/2011 1:26:10 PM

Centuur

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From: Hoorn (NED).
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Oops. Wrong button pressed...

< Message edited by Centuur -- 12/18/2011 1:30:43 PM >

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Post #: 515

RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 12/18/2011 1:48:16 PM

Red Prince

Posts: 3686
Joined: 4/8/2011
From: Bangor, Maine, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur

Without the Dutch TRS and the loss of one of them this turn, things aren't looking good for the CW. The CW hasn't got the sealift available to get defenses in place at all the threathened area's.
"He who tries to defend everything, defends nothing". This is a very important thing to take into account. If you can't get a reasonable defense in an area: get out of the place. You can't defend Egypt properly, because it can be put out of supply by the Italians (if he flies a NAV into the Red Sea). To counter this, the CW has to get FTR's into Egypt, however: he also needs to sea lift land units to Morocco and Spain...
Since you are short of TRS, I would suggest to empty Egypt. You are not able to get re�nforcements to that area in time, when you have to defend in Spain too. Try to get Wavell out of the place and into Spain or Morocco (with a large fleet covering you're TRS against the Italians). This gives you another HQ in an area where the CW is capable to re�nforce, because of the small distance between the UK and Spain/Morocco. Defend Gibraltar with all you've got and let the Italians grab Suez (that's good for US entry, also...).

Of course you can say that the CW has to defend the place, to prevent the Italians from capturing Suez and aligning Iraq, because of the USSR and so on. However: when the CW is short of TRS, he cannot reinforce all area's under attack. If he had 5 TRS available, things were looking different. However, he's only got three around...

The USSR should take the Finnish Borderlands, because he is now in the position to do so. The thing the USSR cannot afford to do is to constantly react on Axis movements towards one place or another. With only combined impulses it takes far to long for uncle Joe to build up the forces needed to get something done. Of course, when the USSR grabs Persia, he should always kill Iraq immediately after taking Persia. That's is also another reason why I would wait with a DoW on Persia. Simply because it takes so long to gather forces on a particular place to put pressure on accepting claims and you have US entry to take into consideration. So first I would rail Zhukov to the Rumanian Border, claim Bessarabia, together with the European army. Than I would rail him to the Persian border, see how the war in France is going and start grabbing both Persia and Iraq. 1940 is far better for this than 1939, since US entry values are much lower in 1940...

I should be able to get Wavell out of egypt within 2 turns. Then the 2 Egyptian TERR can "defend it". The TRS available to him at the moment is the Liner, which is why it'll take 2 turns. The Liner can't carry him, so I've got to get one of the TRS from Morocco to the Red Sea, at least (I'd rather not send it through the Med).

_____________________________

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it!
-Lazarus Long, RAH

(in reply to Centuur)

Post #: 516

RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 12/18/2011 3:18:51 PM

Red Prince

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As expected, the turn ended after the Allied impulse. I'll post the full End-of-Turn report later, but for now, here's where US Entry stands after choosing to Gear Up Production this turn.

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it!
-Lazarus Long, RAH

(in reply to Red Prince)

Post #: 517

RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 12/18/2011 3:20:50 PM

Red Prince

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The following units were destroyed during M/A '40:

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it!
-Lazarus Long, RAH

(in reply to Red Prince)

Post #: 518

RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 12/18/2011 5:07:29 PM

Red Prince

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And here it is, my End of Turn Report for M/A '40:

Partisans
None

Entry Markers
USSR placed 1 marker on Defense (284 [3])
Germany placed 2 markers on Offense (210 [2], 78 [1])

US Entry
USA drew 1 marker to the Ge/It Entry Pool (229 [2])
USA chooses to Gear Up Production (All); USE-8 (1 chit moved, 5 of 5 [4]) (Ge/It)

Ge/It Entry: 17
Ge/It Tension: 19
Chance of DOW: None
Japan Entry: 22
Japan Tension: 13
Chance of DOW: None

Pre-Build Scrapping
Germany scrapped 1 x INF, 1 x FTR-2
Japan scrapped 1 x FTR-2

Builds:
China (5): 1 x INF, 1 x MIL
CW (19): 1 x INF, 1 x GARR, 1 x CV(1st), 2 x TRS(1st), 2 x FTR-2, 2 x Pilot
France (0): Nothing
USA (21): 1 x MAR, 1 x HQ-A, 2 x CVP-1, 3 x Pilot
USSR (17): 2 x INF, 1 x INF Division, 1 x MOT Division, 1 x MECH Division, 2 x Pilot
Germany (17): 2 x INF, 1 x MECH, 1 x FTR-3, 1 x SUB(2nd), 1 x Pilot
Italy (8): 2 x MIL, 2 x Pilot
Japan (16): 1 x GARR 1 x ARM, 2 x CVP-1, 1 x TRS(1st), 2 x Pilot

M/J '40 Gearing Limits (above 1):
China: 3 x Infantry
CW: 3 x Infantry, 4 x Ship, 3 x Air, 3 x Pilot
France: None
USA: 2 x Infantry, 2 x Armor, 3 x Air, 4 x Pilot
USSR: 5 x Infantry, 2 x Armor, 3 x Pilot
Germany: 3 x Infantry, 2 x Armor, 2 x Submarine, 2 x Air, 2 x Pilot
Italy: 3 x Infantry, 3 x Pilot
Japan: 2 x Infantry, 2 x Armor, 2 x Ship, 3 x Air, 3 x Pilot

Conquest:
Greece cc by Italy
Tanganyika cc by Italy

Crete converted to a Neutral Minor

Germany declines to establich a Vichy government
France declines to Surrender to Germany

Factory Destruction:
Germany destroys Blue Factories in Toulouse, Paris (x2), Vichy, and Lyons
Japan destroys Blue Factory in Peking

Reinforcements:
China places its MIL in Kunming
CW places Indian GARR in Calcutta, fleet (CV, BB, CA, CL) in Plymouth
France assigns a Pilot to NAV
France places NAV and INF in Marseilles
USA assigns Pilot to CVP
USA places CVP on CV in Norfolk, INF and GARR in Long Beach
USSR assigns Pilot to LND-4
USSR places LND and GARR in Leningrad, Communist Chinese GARR in Sian
Germany assigns 2 of 3 Pilots to LND-2
Germany places CA in Kiel, 2 x LND, HQ-A Guderian, MTN and MECH Divisions in Karlsruhe, GARR in Konigsberg
Italy places its MIL in Naples and Turin, INF in Genoa, BB in La Spezia
Japan assigns Pilot to NAV
Japan places NAV in Yokohama, CL and GARR in Fukuoka

Trade Agreements:
France cancels its Trade Agreement with China
USA cancels its Trade Agreement with France

Victory Totals
Axis: 24.5
Allies: 42.5

Initiative:
Axis wins the Initiative 8-7

Turn 5 M/J '40

Axis wins the Initiative 8-7
Axis chooses to move first in M/J '40
Axis Initiative +1

Impulse: 1
Weather: 10
(That's Fine weather everywhere)
-----
Also, here's the Chit Summary for Turn #4:

Impulse: 11
Japan enters Ankang; USE-4 (no chit)

End of Turn:
USA drew 1 marker to the Ge/It Entry Pool (229 [2])
USA chooses to Gear Up Production (All); USE-8 (1 chit moved, 5 of 5 [4]) (Ge/It)
-----
Constantly there seem to be extremes in weather this game. Once again, it's Fine weather everywhere to start the turn. This time, however, it favors the side that chose to go first, the Axis.

The USA did manage to Gear Up Production, a turn later than hoped for, and losing the highest available chit to the Tension Pool sure isn't something to be happy about. It looked like there might be a chance to Pass War Appropriations before the end of 1940, and with a few lucky rolls when the Axis gets things moving against Spain & Portugal that chance might still be there. However, the USSR needs to claim the Baltic States, and that might be costly.

France still exists. That's about all that can be said for them -- except that they can now evacuate the CAV from Nice, as well as the rest of the fleet (all of 3 ships) to the anticipated new homeland of Senegal.

China, amazingly, lost no Land units last turn. They aren't in very good shape, and extended good weather this turn could be very difficult on the Nationalist Chinese. The Communists are doing fine for the moment, but if the Nationalists fall, that won't last long. Japan might have China conquered before the end of the year. That's not a pleasant prospect for the Allies.

The USSR isn't going to be wasting much time making its claims this turn. They have the forces in place to be a serious threat to Finland, and the sooner the deed is done, the sooner they can start creating the kind of defense that will be useful against Germany.

As for the Commonwealth, Egypt probably isn't worth saving -- or trying to save, that is. Wavell is all alone there (not counting 2 TERR units), and there isn't any extra support to send to him. However, Morocco is looking good right now, with Gort and 3 or 4 land units already there. With 2 units in Malaya, Singapore will be tough for the Japanese to crack if they head that way, too. Might as well let Italy take the Suez and defend the side the Americans are going to need (Gibraltar).

On the flip side, Italy is looking good, building a nice cozy little empire for itself, Japan is slowly pushing the Chinese back to the heartland, and Germany is almost ready to take on the troops of Spain (and finish off the French, of course). The only real choices to be made are what to prepare to do next. Japan probably won't be ready to take on the Soviets until '41, and neither will Germany, so things are actually timed pretty well for both of them. In the meantime, Italy can strut around the Med and try to take over the Middle-East while it waits to add its assistance to an anti-Gibraltar campaign.
-----
So, at the beginning of May, 1940, here is what the world looks like:

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it!
-Lazarus Long, RAH

(in reply to Red Prince)

Post #: 519

RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 12/18/2011 6:15:20 PM

Centuur

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From: Hoorn (NED).
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Why did the CW build a CV? I would never build CW CV's from cratch. The USA ones are far better and before that CV is finished, the USA is in the war. I would prefer building land units with the CW. 2 of them a turn is not enough. Look at the world and see how things are going now. In Africa, the CW is loosing far to many countries. What is happening there? There aren't that much Italians land units around there, aren't they? So the CW should have TERR by now in that area. But if he's not building them, he is going to get problems in Africa. Where is the Belgian TERR? He should have been set up at the border in Kongo and than moved into Uganda (but that's Italian too?). That the Italians are capable of grabbing Somaliland, Soedan and Kenya, is clear. However: he shouldn't be able to grab more countries, provided the CW gets a unit into Tanganyika and one into Uganda (the last country gets usually the Belgian TERR).

Also: why isn't the USA building ships? That MAR can wait a turn. The USA needs a nice gearing limit on ships so it an build the CV's the moment they arrive in the force pools.

Now: "it's summertime, and the living is easy"... Time for some really, really good German Blitzkrieg around Spain. 4 German HQ's in that region is going to wreck havoc on the remaining French and the forces of Franco. He should have listened to Adolf, before declining to go to war with the French...

_____________________________

Peter

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Post #: 520

RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 12/18/2011 6:24:23 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

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From: Honolulu, Hawaii
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Holding Egypt is important. If it is in Allied hands, it can be reinforced from India and Australia rather easily. Italy can't really move on the MidEast until it takes out Egypt. So, consider defending Egypt as a way to keep Turkey neutral - which is crucial for the USSR.

Is Japan concerned about the US entering the war? Those marine units deep in the heart of China aren't going to be available for amphibious assaults any time soon. Once the US cuts off the oil, Japan will want to DOW and take out the NEI at a minimum. Say that Japan is able to conquer China this year, then it is planning on DOWing the USSR next year. Well, the US might put a crimp in those plans.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Red Prince)

Post #: 521

RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 12/18/2011 6:28:37 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur

Why did the CW build a CV? I would never build CW CV's from cratch. The USA ones are far better and before that CV is finished, the USA is in the war. I would prefer building land units with the CW. 2 of them a turn is not enough. Look at the world and see how things are going now. In Africa, the CW is loosing far to many countries. What is happening there? There aren't that much Italians land units around there, aren't they? So the CW should have TERR by now in that area. But if he's not building them, he is going to get problems in Africa. Where is the Belgian TERR? He should have been set up at the border in Kongo and than moved into Uganda (but that's Italian too?). That the Italians are capable of grabbing Somaliland, Soedan and Kenya, is clear. However: he shouldn't be able to grab more countries, provided the CW gets a unit into Tanganyika and one into Uganda (the last country gets usually the Belgian TERR).

Also: why isn't the USA building ships? That MAR can wait a turn. The USA needs a nice gearing limit on ships so it an build the CV's the moment they arrive in the force pools.

Now: "it's summertime, and the living is easy"... Time for some really, really good German Blitzkrieg around Spain. 4 German HQ's in that region is going to wreck havoc on the remaining French and the forces of Franco. He should have listened to Adolf, before declining to go to war with the French...

I agree about the production builds for the US and CW. With production it is vital to look at how long units take to build and when they will be needed. If the US is planning invasions, then AMPHs and Marines should be scheduled to arrive roughly at the same time. A bunch of TRS will also be invaluable. And the CVs should be built to complete their 1st cycle. When war is declared, a whole slew of CVs can then be put into production (2nd cycle) at the same time. Count out how many CVs you will want for the war with Japan and get them underway.

< Message edited by Shannon V. OKeets -- 12/18/2011 6:31:14 PM >

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Centuur)

Post #: 522

RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 12/18/2011 7:16:54 PM

Red Prince

Posts: 3686
Joined: 4/8/2011
From: Bangor, Maine, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur

Why did the CW build a CV? I would never build CW CV's from cratch. The USA ones are far better and before that CV is finished, the USA is in the war. I would prefer building land units with the CW. 2 of them a turn is not enough. Look at the world and see how things are going now. In Africa, the CW is loosing far to many countries. What is happening there? There aren't that much Italians land units around there, aren't they? So the CW should have TERR by now in that area. But if he's not building them, he is going to get problems in Africa. Where is the Belgian TERR? He should have been set up at the border in Kongo and than moved into Uganda (but that's Italian too?). That the Italians are capable of grabbing Somaliland, Soedan and Kenya, is clear. However: he shouldn't be able to grab more countries, provided the CW gets a unit into Tanganyika and one into Uganda (the last country gets usually the Belgian TERR).

Also: why isn't the USA building ships? That MAR can wait a turn. The USA needs a nice gearing limit on ships so it an build the CV's the moment they arrive in the force pools.

Now: "it's summertime, and the living is easy"... Time for some really, really good German Blitzkrieg around Spain. 4 German HQ's in that region is going to wreck havoc on the remaining French and the forces of Franco. He should have listened to Adolf, before declining to go to war with the French...

I agree about the production builds for the US and CW. With production it is vital to look at how long units take to build and when they will be needed. If the US is planning invasions, then AMPHs and Marines should be scheduled to arrive roughly at the same time. A bunch of TRS will also be invaluable. And the CVs should be built to complete their 1st cycle. When war is declared, a whole slew of CVs can then be put into production (2nd cycle) at the same time. Count out how many CVs you will want for the war with Japan and get them underway.

The reason I rebuilt the CW CV is because it was the only Class 3 CV the CW had, and it was destroyed . . . I don't actually know what is coming in later, but I hate to have only those Class 2 and Class 1 ships. At this time, I figured 2 BP wasn't too much to spend on it. It would have gotten me a single TERR, and most of them are West African TERR at this point, and a few from Australia, Canada, and India.

The USA has AMPH on the track already, I think, and a few TRS, too. Can't really remember. It doesn't have any CV left to build at the moment, so I didn't. I think. I may be confusing this with the last game, but I'm pretty sure I built all of the 1st cycle CVs already.

As for the Japanese MAR units. Yes, they are deep inland, but should be easy enough to get them back to cities which can rail them out as the INF and MIL I've been shipping to China move up to take their places. Also, Japan has several divisions on the track (again, I think), and a few AMPH, too, so it will still have capability to make landings when required.

I'm not "expecting" the USA to be able to enter the war for a year or so, at least. That could change, of course, but that gives me plenty of time to get the necessary units back where they are needed.
-----
Edit:This, of course, doesn't account for the Oil Embargo, but I'm already fully commited in China. I figure I better get that job done, rather than leaving it half done.

< Message edited by Red Prince -- 12/18/2011 7:20:47 PM >

_____________________________

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Post #: 523

RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 12/18/2011 7:23:04 PM

Red Prince

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One more comment on the above posts:

I'm playing this as a "real" (ish) game for the first time -- ever -- so I'm bound to make mistakes. And, believe it or not, I do appreciate you all pointing them out. There are things in WiF that I just don't know yet that I need to be thinking about, and that's where these critiques are so useful.

So, I thank you all for your help, suggestions, and criticisms.

-Aaron

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Post #: 524

RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 12/18/2011 8:16:43 PM

Centuur

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

Holding Egypt is important. If it is in Allied hands, it can be reinforced from India and Australia rather easily. Italy can't really move on the MidEast until it takes out Egypt. So, consider defending Egypt as a way to keep Turkey neutral - which is crucial for the USSR.

Yes, holding Egypt is important. However, in a game where the CW has only 3 TRS available, the CW simply hasn't got the sealift to transport enough troops and planes to both Morocco/Spain and Egypt, while also preventing the movement of the Italians in Africa (look at how fast the African map is going into Italian colours). If he had the 5 transports normally available to the CW (after the Dutch have been attacked), things would look much different, and than I wouldn't have said to leave Egypt.
To succesfully defend Egypt, the CW has to get 1 or 2 FTR's into the place, together with at least one or two additional land units (apart from Wavell and the TERR that are already in place). To defend Spain and Morocco, the CW has to get land units, FTR's and probably some tactical factors planes into Spain. How is he going to do this, with only 3 TRS available? Personally, I think the CW needs at least 6 land units in Spain and 3 or 4 in Morocco, together with a garrison in Gibraltar. France will be conquered, so no nice Free French units who can cooperate with the CW.

Simply adding some units to both places isn't going to do the job, and might lead to the piecemeal elimination of expensive CW units (not cheap TERR, GAR or MIL units...). I would aim, as the CW, to prevent the Axis capture of Gibraltar. This means stalling the Axis approach onto Gib as long as possible, together with a defense of Morocco. To accomplish this, I would move Wavell out of Egypt and into Spain or Morocco. Also, I would build as much cheap land units as possible and try to throw them in the way of the Germans in the mountains and cities of Spain. Defend Morocco and make that the air base, from which Gibraltar will be saved. I might even be tempted to build a fort hexside for Gibraltar, the turn the Axis DoW's Spain. It would be very nice to see that the attacker is also halved at an attack on Gibraltar from Spain.

Yes, there is the risk of an attack on the USSR from Iraq and Persia. Yes, there is the possibility of Turkey than being aligned with the Axis. Not nice, indeed. However, I would rather give up Egypt and keep Gibraltar, than lose both places because I'm not able to get enough troops and planes in both places.
Or are you of the opinion that it's better to give up on Spain after you've supported it and transfer the troops to Egypt?

_____________________________

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Post #: 525

RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 12/18/2011 9:13:32 PM

Klydon

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I have to agree with Centuur for a couple other reasons not stated.

First, should the UK only make a half hearted attempt (IE under powered force, etc) on Gibraltar, they are putting Russia at extreme risk. The last thing Russia wants to see at this point is Germany not tied down someplace for a bit to give them as much time as possible to get ready. The Russians are already nervous enough with the situation in China. A quick campaign and capture of Gibraltar opens the door for a long and protracted campaign against Russia. The UK is more than capable of giving the Axis a very hard fight for Gibraltar. The Axis may get it, but it can take quite a bit of time, which is something that the Axis has a ton of.

As the quote goes, "He who attempts to defend everything winds up defending nothing". You are not in a position to get enough to Egypt to keep up with what the Axis can bring to bear there, especially with no Malta. While the loss of Egypt is regrettable, losing Gibraltar is really dangerous between making it secure for the Axis in the Med and allowing the Italian fleet to wander out into the Atlantic.

The other issue for you is that until you fix the UK transport issue (as in not enough of them), the Axis are going to know you will be severely limited in what you can do and trying to ship in enough to keep up with what the Axis can toss around will be very difficult.

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Post #: 526

RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 12/18/2011 10:49:25 PM

Red Prince

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I know it's not much, but when Spain is aligned to the CW, there is a TRS that comes with it. Of course, that should mean 6 TRS instead of 4, but every little bit helps.

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Post #: 527

RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 12/18/2011 11:39:43 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Klydon

I have to agree with Centuur for a couple other reasons not stated.

First, should the UK only make a half hearted attempt (IE under powered force, etc) on Gibraltar, they are putting Russia at extreme risk. The last thing Russia wants to see at this point is Germany not tied down someplace for a bit to give them as much time as possible to get ready. The Russians are already nervous enough with the situation in China. A quick campaign and capture of Gibraltar opens the door for a long and protracted campaign against Russia. The UK is more than capable of giving the Axis a very hard fight for Gibraltar. The Axis may get it, but it can take quite a bit of time, which is something that the Axis has a ton of.

As the quote goes, "He who attempts to defend everything winds up defending nothing". You are not in a position to get enough to Egypt to keep up with what the Axis can bring to bear there, especially with no Malta. While the loss of Egypt is regrettable, losing Gibraltar is really dangerous between making it secure for the Axis in the Med and allowing the Italian fleet to wander out into the Atlantic.

The other issue for you is that until you fix the UK transport issue (as in not enough of them), the Axis are going to know you will be severely limited in what you can do and trying to ship in enough to keep up with what the Axis can toss around will be very difficult.

How many units does Italy have in Africa? Are there going to be German units sent across the Med to help take out the British? If the EuroAxis is expecting to attack Tangiers, then they will need units shipped across the Med for that purpose. Isn't it basically a question of CW TRS units versus Italian ones? For instance, if Italy makes a moderate attack in Egypt and loses 2 units, won't its offensive come to a dead halt? I am not worried about air units in Egypt particularly, it is ground forces that have to fight the real battles. Air units are always "in support".

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Post #: 528

RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 12/19/2011 1:04:08 AM

composer99

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The US has the tension needed in the Germany/Italy pool to pass War Appropriations. So all it needs to do is pile on the entry.

It is 1-2 chits away from having enough tension in the Japan pool as well (depending on the values of the chits that get pulled).

Given continued aggressive play by the Axis I could see the US doing that by the end of 1940.

In my opinion the Japanese should stop gunning to conquer China and instead isolate them by taking Kunming and weaken the Communists by taking Sian. Then leave a force of bombers to strat bomb the remaining useable Chinese factory cities. Keeping China weak for the duration is good. Conquering China and giving the US 3+ chits plus extra chits a turn when it's passed the first gear-up already is not.

Even with things going pretty well, I can't see the Axis resisting American power if the US gets in the war 5-6 turns early.

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Post #: 529

RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 12/19/2011 1:28:19 AM

Red Prince

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Italy has a total of 10 units in Africa already. 3 are in the N. Africa region. 1 is in Tunis, 3 are about to enter Egypt from Libya and 2 from Anglo-Egyptian Sudan, with 2-3 more on the way, and 1 is in Tanganyika.

Continued aggressive Axis play isn't really likely -- not as it was in '39, at least. There are very few DOWs left to make: Spain, Portugal, and that's about it. 2-3 alignments remain (Finland, Yugoslavia, Iraq), and Japan doesn't actually have to conquer China to make it ineffective. The Communists are proving to be tough, so I'm thinking that taking the heartland and leaving Sian and Lanchow might be the best course of action . . . unless the Communists screw things up and lose some good units or let some forces through. Then there's the question as to whether or not China should surrender in order to make life a little more difficult for the Japanese.

I'm worried about the number of troops that would need to stay in play to prevent flanking movements in China if one or the other faction isn't removed completely. If the Nationalists can be eliminated, then the Communists can be "surrounded" by much fewer troops. Well placed Garrisons can prevent any Partisans from doing any real damage to the Japanese economy.

It really depends on how long the summer lasts, and how good the weather is while it is summer. The next two turns, both in Spain and China, will determine what plans the Axis decide to act on.

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Post #: 530

RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 12/19/2011 2:25:08 AM

Shannon V. OKeets

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

Italy has a total of 10 units in Africa already. 3 are in the N. Africa region. 1 is in Tunis, 3 are about to enter Egypt from Libya and 2 from Anglo-Egyptian Sudan, with 2-3 more on the way, and 1 is in Tanganyika.

Continued aggressive Axis play isn't really likely -- not as it was in '39, at least. There are very few DOWs left to make: Spain, Portugal, and that's about it. 2-3 alignments remain (Finland, Yugoslavia, Iraq), and Japan doesn't actually have to conquer China to make it ineffective. The Communists are proving to be tough, so I'm thinking that taking the heartland and leaving Sian and Lanchow might be the best course of action . . . unless the Communists screw things up and lose some good units or let some forces through. Then there's the question as to whether or not China should surrender in order to make life a little more difficult for the Japanese.

I'm worried about the number of troops that would need to stay in play to prevent flanking movements in China if one or the other faction isn't removed completely. If the Nationalists can be eliminated, then the Communists can be "surrounded" by much fewer troops. Well placed Garrisons can prevent any Partisans from doing any real damage to the Japanese economy.

It really depends on how long the summer lasts, and how good the weather is while it is summer. The next two turns, both in Spain and China, will determine what plans the Axis decide to act on.

How are the Italians staying in supply in Africa? If the Commonwealth puts a navy in the Red Sea, those units in the south can only move once per turn.

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Perfection is an elusive goal.

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Post #: 531

RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 12/19/2011 3:42:57 AM

brian brian

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The Allies shouldn't give things away in the game. You might want to transfer Wavell out of Egypt...but you should still defend the place. Perhaps the Axis can take Egypt....but you should actually make them do it, not just give it to them for free. One long-range NAV flying to the Red Sea isn't exactly hard to defend against, and that would be one less Axis asset they can use in the Gibraltar campaign. Egypt is essentially part of the Russian front now (Lend-Lease links become critical to Russia's survival). Having two good infantry units, one white-print/elite, sitting in Singapore for the next year doing nothing is wasteful. Ship the Sydney MIL to Suez with the Queens (have Wavell re-org the first trip, the Italians are a long way off yet, then go fetch an Indian unit for any front you want)...make the Italians try and send the units needed to beat them across the Med through the Royal Navy. Then use the Queens for the Spanish/Moroccan front; also maximize the use of the CW TRS in Europe via using their ATR during naval impulses whenever possible, or even an HQ at times if the HQ will be safe for the rest of the turn. Let the Japanese have Singapore when the time comes; the European theater is far more critical. Defending things that aren't even threatened yet is worse than defending 'everything'. Pick your cliche here: you can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs, and the Allies can't win the game without taking losses along the way. Losing a few BP of infantry in Suez won't hurt the Allies very much at all.

The CW needs to play like a rampaging bull too....and they desperately need their FTR-3s more than CVs, and a heck of a lot more than Germany does. It's normal to not have all of their slow CVs loaded with their choicest planes on into 1940 if the CW is keeping it's priorities prioritized. I would keep patching up damaged BBs for 2 BP instead of laying down new ships. Or a TERR can be good too, you kinda need one in West Africa right now, and the Canadian/Indian/Australian/South African ones are excellent cheap stiffeners for any CW front as they cooperate with all other CW units (always keep them stacked with some regulars), or they can free up a better unit from garrison duty.

I'm not sure I've ever seen a Japanese ARM unit on the board, aside from HQ Hata. What will it do?

I do like an early build of the USMC assets. I park them on the island adjacent to Pearl Harbor for extra defense against a sustained Japanese attack on Pearl (they can walk across to reinforce if necessary), and then they are also an early threat against the Marshalls. If the Combined Fleet gets a little distracted they can suddenly be on the Bonins... But as soon as I finish up a robust suite of defenders for Hawaii, it's time to get Ike and a bunch of FTRs, Infantry, and transports ready to intervene in Europe as fast as possible. So I don't have a killer pile of Iowa and Essex class ships riding the production spiral while the Germans are busy winning the game. Russia and Japan are fragile eggs in the game....it's easy for the US to crack the Japanese one, but it is also all too easy for the Germans to crack the Russian egg.....

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Post #: 532

RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 12/19/2011 5:25:17 AM

Klydon

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I have posted elsewhere, but remember much of my view is from very old skool when the game came out, etc so some of my views/comments may be a bit dated.

I have used Japanese armor in China before because it allows you to use the blitz table. Also potentially handy against Uncle Joe at some point down the road.

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Post #: 533

RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 12/19/2011 7:33:49 AM

Patton_71

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Not so much of a fan of Japanese armor in China...Choice of blitz only applies in clear+forest non city hexes. The only 2 hexes that are important enough to fight over are the 2 forested resource locations in southern China. I prefer them on defense in the central pacific. Those islands are clear terrain, and the defending -2 bonus on the chart can really make the USMC think twice when they invade.

Note that my comments are based on the current WIF map, and not the new 'double sized' Asia map in MWIF.

Now if you can get them over to India, that's a whole other story.

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Post #: 534

RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 12/19/2011 10:54:08 AM

Red Prince

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

Italy has a total of 10 units in Africa already. 3 are in the N. Africa region. 1 is in Tunis, 3 are about to enter Egypt from Libya and 2 from Anglo-Egyptian Sudan, with 2-3 more on the way, and 1 is in Tanganyika.

Continued aggressive Axis play isn't really likely -- not as it was in '39, at least. There are very few DOWs left to make: Spain, Portugal, and that's about it. 2-3 alignments remain (Finland, Yugoslavia, Iraq), and Japan doesn't actually have to conquer China to make it ineffective. The Communists are proving to be tough, so I'm thinking that taking the heartland and leaving Sian and Lanchow might be the best course of action . . . unless the Communists screw things up and lose some good units or let some forces through. Then there's the question as to whether or not China should surrender in order to make life a little more difficult for the Japanese.

I'm worried about the number of troops that would need to stay in play to prevent flanking movements in China if one or the other faction isn't removed completely. If the Nationalists can be eliminated, then the Communists can be "surrounded" by much fewer troops. Well placed Garrisons can prevent any Partisans from doing any real damage to the Japanese economy.

It really depends on how long the summer lasts, and how good the weather is while it is summer. The next two turns, both in Spain and China, will determine what plans the Axis decide to act on.

How are the Italians staying in supply in Africa? If the Commonwealth puts a navy in the Red Sea, those units in the south can only move once per turn.

Well, the 2 units in Anglo-Egyptian Sudan used the Supply Unit to actually conquer it, and since then have been moving only once per turn. The AIO unit which has been doing so much damage further south doesn't need to trace supply back to Italy, but only needs to trace back to one of the 3 capitals -- Eritrea, Ethiopia, or Italian Somaliland. The last one is the key, since it can be reached through the Azanian Sea, and while the CW does have a large fleet, it only now has the ability to blockade the AIO TERR out of supply.

< Message edited by Red Prince -- 12/19/2011 10:55:55 AM >

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Post #: 535

RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 12/19/2011 11:02:38 AM

Red Prince

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quote:

ORIGINAL: brian brian

The Allies shouldn't give things away in the game. You might want to transfer Wavell out of Egypt...but you should still defend the place. Perhaps the Axis can take Egypt....but you should actually make them do it, not just give it to them for free. One long-range NAV flying to the Red Sea isn't exactly hard to defend against, and that would be one less Axis asset they can use in the Gibraltar campaign. Egypt is essentially part of the Russian front now (Lend-Lease links become critical to Russia's survival). Having two good infantry units, one white-print/elite, sitting in Singapore for the next year doing nothing is wasteful. Ship the Sydney MIL to Suez with the Queens (have Wavell re-org the first trip, the Italians are a long way off yet, then go fetch an Indian unit for any front you want)...make the Italians try and send the units needed to beat them across the Med through the Royal Navy. Then use the Queens for the Spanish/Moroccan front; also maximize the use of the CW TRS in Europe via using their ATR during naval impulses whenever possible, or even an HQ at times if the HQ will be safe for the rest of the turn. Let the Japanese have Singapore when the time comes; the European theater is far more critical. Defending things that aren't even threatened yet is worse than defending 'everything'. Pick your cliche here: you can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs, and the Allies can't win the game without taking losses along the way. Losing a few BP of infantry in Suez won't hurt the Allies very much at all.

The 3 things in red:

1. The Queens is currently transporting South African units to the Moroccan front
2. The Italians already have 10 or 11 attack factors (MECH, MOT, TERR) in Bardia and Egypt, with 10 more likely to get there easily this turn
3. The ATR was shot down very early on, and despite the clamoring for me to build this that and the other thing with the CW, they have a limited number of both BP and units available, and the ATR hasn't been ablet to be replaced yet.

quote:

The CW needs to play like a rampaging bull too....and they desperately need their FTR-3s more than CVs, and a heck of a lot more than Germany does. It's normal to not have all of their slow CVs loaded with their choicest planes on into 1940 if the CW is keeping it's priorities prioritized. I would keep patching up damaged BBs for 2 BP instead of laying down new ships. Or a TERR can be good too, you kinda need one in West Africa right now, and the Canadian/Indian/Australian/South African ones are excellent cheap stiffeners for any CW front as they cooperate with all other CW units (always keep them stacked with some regulars), or they can free up a better unit from garrison duty.

From the start of the game, there have already been 2 CW TERR in West AFrica -- which was part of the problem in the first place. As for the Canadian/Indian/Australian/South African TERR, I already have more units in those areas than I can transport at this time, so I see little point in adding more until I have the sealift to get the job done.

quote:

m not sure I've ever seen a Japanese ARM unit on the board, aside from HQ Hata. What will it do?

I've heard people say a lot about the new map being so open, and that the ARM or MECH unit will help the Japanese choose the attack type (Blitz) in China and/or the USSR. So, I thought that since I'm going to have to break the Communist line somehow, why not give it a shot. It's a bit of an experiment, really.

< Message edited by Red Prince -- 12/19/2011 11:10:36 AM >

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Post #: 536

RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 12/19/2011 11:26:35 AM

Red Prince

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After the first Axis impulse this turn, which will be used to set up for the attack on Spain and Marseilles, I'll attempt to make collages so that you can see every land unit on the board for each nation. I will also attempt to show the available force pools for each nation (Land and Air, and maybe Naval). I am not going to attempt to show the Naval units in all the sea areas, because there are just too many of them, and the other tasks will be very time-consuming and I may not get it all finished in a single day.

For starters, and this is before the first Axis impulse of M/J '40, this is the Global Map set to show unit locations. Each non-white pixel represents a unit or stack of units from the associated Major Power. Some of these are land, some are air, and some are naval units, but it gives you a general idea where the forces of each country happen to be at the moment:

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 537

RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 12/19/2011 12:22:27 PM

Red Prince

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More food for thought:

This image shows which units are expected to arrive (so far) for the last 3 turns of 1940:

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Red Prince -- 12/19/2011 12:24:12 PM >

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Post #: 538

RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 12/19/2011 2:41:17 PM

Red Prince

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Germany and Japan both took Land Actions, while Italy took a Naval Action (and cleared the E. Med). Italy aligned Yugoslavia, generating nothing for the USA, and Japan took Henan to put that Communist Chinese CAV out of supply again, also failing to generate an Entry chit.

Here are the attacks for the first impulse of early Spring (both Japanese attacks are risky, but Ground support gives both a good chance at higher odds, and without taking these cities, the Southern Front will have a hard time advancing any deeper into China):

And the results:

Attack on Kweiyang; Assault, Fractional Odds .293 (Yes), Roll = 10 = */2S; USE-10 (no chit)
Attack on Chihkiang; Assault, Fractional Odds .341 (Yes), Roll = 8 = */2S; USE-7 (no chit)
Attack on France [63, 30]; Blitz, Roll = 2+1 = 3 = */2B

I chose the Assault CRT for the Kweiyang attack because while the Blitz CRT might offer a minimal chance of the GARR surviving, the Assault CRT has a good chance of disorganizing the attacking units. If that happened, Japan would need to use up HQ-I Yamamoto in order to get them back into the action, but that at least halts the advance short of Kunming and Chunking from that direction. Of course, that didn't work out, as the die rolls continue to be on the extreme end of things.

The attack on Chihkiang was even more of a risk for Japan. Early in the turn, and 8 units committed to the attack with only a 30% chance of remaining organized . . . what it does, though, is opens up the supply route that HQ-I Yamamoto is going to need farthur south (not to mention eliminating HQ-I Chiang). Again, Japan got a good roll for the attack, which makes up for the terrible roll last turn.

For both of these attacks, I don't consider the Fractional Odds rolls to be "lucky" at all. I used up all of the Japanese air assets to make sure that each attack had a very good chance at moving up a column on the CRT. Similarly, I don't think the USE rolls were "lucky" either; for Kweiyang, there was a 30% chance of adding a US Entry chit, and for Chihkiang it was only a 20% chance. I think it was about time Japan stopped rolling '1' for all of the cities they take, based on long-term odds. So, not "lucky" there.

Near Marseilles, Germany got the low roll, but it didn't matter in the end, since it was a 7:1 Blitz.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Red Prince -- 12/19/2011 2:43:06 PM >

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Post #: 539

RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 12/19/2011 2:50:36 PM

Centuur

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Now, you did say that it would probably take two turns to take Wavell out of Egypt. Can you tell me why this is going to take that long? Is it, because of the fact that the two TRS the CW has now, are in UK and the Queens are around India? If so, this then means that Wavell hasn't go another option than to stay put and defend Egypt, if the CW doesn't want to sail through the Med (and the CW can't afford to lose more TRS, so he shouldn't take that risk).
If this is so, than I would suggest the following:
- use the Queens to get the Sydney MIL into Egypt.
- set up the Spanish TRS in Rio Muni (Africa) after the German DoW (far out of the way of any possible attacks on it), get it in South Africa to prepare for the transportation of the South African FTR to Egypt or Morocco. Which area is depending on how Wavell is holding out in Egypt this turn. Also: put the Italians in East Africa out of supply by moving some cruisers into both the Azanian and Red Sea (one cruiser does the job...).

One thing is also something you have to consider. You probably are going to have to take land impulses after the Germans attack Spain (combined impulses aren't enough). This means that reinforcing area's is going to be hampered by this. You might therefore choose to align Spain with France. However, that means you cannot use the Spanish TRS from transporting CW units, since Spain than doesn't cooperate with the CW... I don't know what my choice is going to be in this situation... Anyone else who's got an opinion about this?

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Peter

(in reply to Red Prince)

Post #: 540