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RE: Blood in the skies - 12/21/2011 11:00:19 PM   
jeffk3510


Posts: 4132
Joined: 12/3/2007
From: Kansas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy


quote:

ORIGINAL: jeffk3510

I'm just throwing this out there GJ.. but I'm guessing I would not be let down after an evening of partying with you...... When we go over to the ol' Boot, I'll have to come knockin'



What's an "Ol'Boot" ?

However...whenever it will come the time, i'll do my best to satisfy you


Your home country....I am off for Chinese as well...

< Message edited by jeffk3510 -- 12/21/2011 11:02:52 PM >

_____________________________

Life is tough. The sooner you realize that, the easier it will be.

Currently chasing three kids around the Midwest.

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Post #: 4621
RE: Blood in the skies - 12/21/2011 11:01:34 PM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline 		Oh, Old Boot...i got it now :-)

You're welcome to come and join the party

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Post #: 4622
RE: Blood in the skies - 12/21/2011 11:03:34 PM   
jeffk3510


Posts: 4132
Joined: 12/3/2007
From: Kansas
Status: offline 		Never been that far south yet..... Outside of America... just Canada, Netherlands, Greece, and Germany...

_____________________________

Life is tough. The sooner you realize that, the easier it will be.

Currently chasing three kids around the Midwest.

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Post #: 4623
RE: Blood in the skies - 12/21/2011 11:04:54 PM   
Crackaces


Posts: 3858
Joined: 7/9/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jeffk3510


quote:

ORIGINAL: Miller


quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

I don't fear the KB right now...in fact i was hunting her (or her ghost)...i fear those LBA masses...

What would have happened if....

A6M3a Zero x 114
     A6M5 Zero x 103
     G4M1 Betty x 120
     G4M2 Betty x 28
     N1K1-J George x 541
     P1Y1 Frances x 113

arrived over my DS...followed by the KB raid? How many of my CVs would have survived?


I would never suggest going head to head with them within range of his LBA. However you seriously attrited his KB airgroups during the Tulagi/New Guinea campaign in 43, a perfect time for your CVs to strike.........but they were sitting in PH at the time "Upgrading". BTW (as you will have probably realised after the last bad turn) ship AA upgrades are pretty much pointless as Flak in the game is about a tenth as effective compared to the real war.



I would agree with that 100%


Hmmmm what version are we refering to? or are we saying the latest Beta version is borked too?

(in reply to jeffk3510)
Post #: 4624
RE: Blood in the skies - 12/21/2011 11:08:38 PM   
Miller


Posts: 2226
Joined: 9/14/2004
From: Ashington, England.
Status: offline 		Well I am playing with a very recent Beta, maybe not the latest. My game is at March 43 and I have shot down a grand total of 30 Allied a/c by flak.

(in reply to Crackaces)
Post #: 4625
RE: Blood in the skies - 12/21/2011 11:11:51 PM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline 		Ok...turn arrived....a mess!!!!

First question....i've lost nearly 250 planes sunk with the CVEs....and 30 air squadrons destroyed...but their fragment are scattered all over the Kuriles...how should i deal with them?

(in reply to Crackaces)
Post #: 4626
RE: Blood in the skies - 12/21/2011 11:12:40 PM   
Cribtop


Posts: 3890
Joined: 8/10/2008
From: Lone Star Nation
Status: offline 		I strongly recommend a trip to Italy. Awesome scenery, food, people and country.

Glad to see you've recovered GJ. What's the plan now?

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Post #: 4627
RE: Blood in the skies - 12/21/2011 11:17:51 PM   
Crackaces


Posts: 3858
Joined: 7/9/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Miller

Well I am playing with a very recent Beta, maybe not the latest. My game is at March 43 and I have shot down a grand total of 30 Allied a/c by flak.


Here is my flak losses as the Allied player 07 JUL 1942. In particular, the Betty's hitting flak over bases along with defending my TF's.

I have not experinced a complete bork as you describe. Now I am not sure if any upgrades would have survived the blackened sky of 4000 aircraft but in Scenario #1 I have found flak to attrite its fair share of IJNAAF ..




Now Back to Greyjoy's journey ...

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Crackaces -- 12/21/2011 11:20:41 PM >

(in reply to Miller)
Post #: 4628
RE: Blood in the skies - 12/21/2011 11:18:12 PM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline 		.




Attachment (1)

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Post #: 4629
RE: Blood in the skies - 12/21/2011 11:33:12 PM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline 		What to do with those fragments...nearly 300 a/c now belongs to frangments...they cannot take replacements....what shall i do?

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 4630
RE: Blood in the skies - 12/22/2011 12:16:06 AM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline 		Japanese attack route...he passed over 4 of my subs....and they didn't manage to get a single hit....bastards!




Attachment (1)

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Post #: 4631
RE: Blood in the skies - 12/22/2011 12:26:34 AM   
JohnDillworth


Posts: 3100
Joined: 3/19/2009
Status: offline
quote:

Ok...turn arrived....a mess!!!!

First question....i've lost nearly 250 planes sunk with the CVEs....and 30 air squadrons destroyed...but their fragment are scattered all over the Kuriles...how should i deal with them?


I am despondent, you must be in rough shape. How did the KB get so close and get away without a scratch? I assume you had air searches. What a mess indeed. But as CR says, you didn't lose your good landing craft, your bombers are in good shape and your CV's were not around to share in the beating. Once again he reloads up the KB. He has lost tons of carrier craft a few times and seem just to related with more pilots and better planes. Whenever I have a crappy day at work (lots of em lately) your AAR picks me up. Guess I have to see whats on TV tonight. Sorry, that's selfish. How may CVE's do you have left? Probably have plenty in the pipeline. As for the fragments, I guess disband most of them to keep the pools up and use the Avengers and DB's on constant ground attack and ASW. Maybe pull any top notch pilots out and promote them to CV's. Another idea is to add additional squadrons to your CV's where there is room. Bring them up to theoretical capacity. All the Christmas parties lately I am finally going to have a few nights with out a drink and now this happens. Chin up, dust yourself off, be more careful next time, count your strengths and blessings and get back in the fight. His fighters are probably depleted. Load up a big bomber strike, no sweeps, just many groups escorting and get out there and bomb something. Your our warrior out there. Strike!

_____________________________

Today I come bearing an olive branch in one hand, and the freedom fighter's gun in the other. Do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. I repeat, do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. - Yasser Arafat Speech to UN General Assembly

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 4632
RE: Blood in the skies - 12/22/2011 12:34:50 AM   
DTurtle

 

Posts: 443
Joined: 4/26/2010
Status: offline 		Maybe this is a dumb question, but don't you have tons of 2E bombers? Why aren't those 4 air fields on Honshu closest to you shut down all the time? You don't need long range fighters or long range bombers to hit them. Hell, bombing the airfields will slow down any attempt to build forts - and you do want to land there. This attack gives you perfect cover for smashing those bases and keeping on hitting them. If he keeps planes there, they will be smashed on the ground. If he LRCaps, then he will greatly fatigue lots of his planes - and they won't be defending against strategic bombing runs.

(in reply to JohnDillworth)
Post #: 4633
RE: Blood in the skies - 12/22/2011 12:41:30 AM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline 		I feel vulnerable now....damn this game is worse than a love story!....

Checked my 4Es....only have 240 between B-24Js and B-29s....really too few to keep on strat bombing...ufffffffffffrff

Tomorrow we'll try to catch all those planes damaged that he must have left at Ominato....we'll use 2Es and some navy and british 4Es.... subs are out again trying to intercept te KB....but i don't have any expectations considering the horrible results i had with subs till now....

What to say else? The damaged ships will try to get to Shikuka (1 ARD and 3 ARs there) but most of my damaged CVEs will sink tomorrow....i have lost 33 CVEs in this raid...something like 1000 potential planes to support an invasion....

Hopefully tomorrow i'll feel better....but for now my morale is back to the days of Karachi....

But i have to give credit to Rader once again....he played this very very well...and i probably went overconfident thinking that 600 fighters on the CVEs + 230 at Uruppu + 190 at Etorofu + 150 at Shimushiri were enough to keep my Kuriles safe from this "coups de main"....but they weren't... how is it possible that my fighters on the CVEs performed so badly?! they didn't even engage the raids...look at the first raid....10 fighters lost on each side and that's all.... the CVEs don't suffer the "sitting in base" penalty right?

Oh well...doesn't really matter....guess it was a bad dice and roll this time...

Tomorrow i'll feel better....let's sleep over !

night gents!!!!

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 4634
RE: Blood in the skies - 12/22/2011 12:47:27 AM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DTurtle

Maybe this is a dumb question, but don't you have tons of 2E bombers? Why aren't those 4 air fields on Honshu closest to you shut down all the time? You don't need long range fighters or long range bombers to hit them. Hell, bombing the airfields will slow down any attempt to build forts - and you do want to land there. This attack gives you perfect cover for smashing those bases and keeping on hitting them. If he keeps planes there, they will be smashed on the ground. If he LRCaps, then he will greatly fatigue lots of his planes - and they won't be defending against strategic bombing runs.


You cannot close them all at the same time. he has 200k men in each of those 4 bases and i naval bomb them almost every 2 turns....no matter the damages i inflict he always getting them operative the next day...he must be swimming with engineers there....
Also i have "only" 250 2Es in the Kuriles...the rest is being used as training camp cause loss rate on bomber crew is really high...and i need good pilots for my 4Es....

however my pools aren't in a good shape guys...4E pools are empty and my groups depleted...2Es are in a better shape but the lack of good bomber pilots remains a problem....i'm losing something like 200 pilots every month with this bombing campaign....

(in reply to DTurtle)
Post #: 4635
RE: Blood in the skies - 12/22/2011 12:51:47 AM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

quote:

Ok...turn arrived....a mess!!!!

First question....i've lost nearly 250 planes sunk with the CVEs....and 30 air squadrons destroyed...but their fragment are scattered all over the Kuriles...how should i deal with them?


I am despondent, you must be in rough shape. How did the KB get so close and get away without a scratch? I assume you had air searches. What a mess indeed. But as CR says, you didn't lose your good landing craft, your bombers are in good shape and your CV's were not around to share in the beating. Once again he reloads up the KB. He has lost tons of carrier craft a few times and seem just to related with more pilots and better planes. Whenever I have a crappy day at work (lots of em lately) your AAR picks me up. Guess I have to see whats on TV tonight. Sorry, that's selfish. How may CVE's do you have left? Probably have plenty in the pipeline. As for the fragments, I guess disband most of them to keep the pools up and use the Avengers and DB's on constant ground attack and ASW. Maybe pull any top notch pilots out and promote them to CV's. Another idea is to add additional squadrons to your CV's where there is room. Bring them up to theoretical capacity. All the Christmas parties lately I am finally going to have a few nights with out a drink and now this happens. Chin up, dust yourself off, be more careful next time, count your strengths and blessings and get back in the fight. His fighters are probably depleted. Load up a big bomber strike, no sweeps, just many groups escorting and get out there and bomb something. Your our warrior out there. Strike!



Thanks John! Much appreciated!

I have left something like 10 operative CVEs...12 maybe if i manage to save a couple of them....
Disband you suggest?...but if i disband i'll lose the planes right?
The KB simply pass through my subs screen rushing from the Bonins where my naval search doesn't arrive...in fact the raid was very well calculated...the KB arrived in position only the second day...so it probably did something like 30/36 hexes in two days to arrive there undetected....

Yes, don't worry...i'll recover...as always....i just need some sleep and a couple of martini as Cpt Mandrake suggested....maybe half a porn could be usefull too


(in reply to JohnDillworth)
Post #: 4636
RE: Blood in the skies - 12/22/2011 1:05:49 AM   
JohnDillworth


Posts: 3100
Joined: 3/19/2009
Status: offline
quote:

10 fighters lost on each side and that's all

Because escorts keep fighters busy! Same is true of your 4E raids. If you have a few groups assigned to escort at least 1 or 2 of them will. They keep the bombers relatively free to do their job. Not really sure about the fragments. If you combine the fragments into tier respective groups can't they resize to the original group size? Worst case pull the best pilots and use the bombers to shut down airfields or ground attack until they are gone. If the group can take replacements stick a group on each of your CV's until so they have their full capacity. I, too, am disgusted with your subs. If their not doing thier job send them to die in the DEI. You might get a few ships and it will keeps his bombers away form the Home Islands.

_____________________________

Today I come bearing an olive branch in one hand, and the freedom fighter's gun in the other. Do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. I repeat, do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. - Yasser Arafat Speech to UN General Assembly

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 4637
RE: Blood in the skies - 12/22/2011 1:16:35 AM   
USSAmerica


Posts: 18715
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Graham, NC, USA
Status: offline 		Greyjoy, you'll be fine!  Yeah, it sucks, and rader did a great job to cause about the most damage he possibly could to you.  Now, you have learned from this and will be on guard.  This is very, very likely rader's last major achievement. 

You compare the feeling to the "Karachi days", but take another look at the map.  Look closely at where you are!  You are kicking his butt!  Keep it up and keep your chin up! 


_____________________________

Mike

"Good times will set you free" - Jimmy Buffett

"They need more rum punch" - Me


Artwork by The Amazing Dixie

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Post #: 4638
RE: Blood in the skies - 12/22/2011 2:41:07 AM   
ADB123

 

Posts: 1559
Joined: 8/18/2009
Status: offline
quote:

how is it possible that my fighters on the CVEs performed so badly?! they didn't even engage the raids...look at the first raid....10 fighters lost on each side and that's all.... the CVEs don't suffer the "sitting in base" penalty right?


Unless something has changed in the Betas, any CV, CVEs included, fly fewer planes if they are in a shore/base hex. Only the AI is immune.

As an aside - all of the "ammo explosion" messages are a good lesson for everyone who wants to use their CVEs as Combat Carriers...

Good luck -

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 4639
RE: Blood in the skies - 12/22/2011 2:45:42 AM   
Cribtop


Posts: 3890
Joined: 8/10/2008
From: Lone Star Nation
Status: offline 		GJ,

Given Rader's a/c losses it is highly unlikely he will stick around tomorrow. What about disbanding the damaged CVEs in Uruppu? Might save a few.

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Post #: 4640
RE: Blood in the skies - 12/22/2011 3:32:27 AM   
cwDeici

 

Posts: 70
Joined: 12/6/2011
Status: offline 		Can Greyjoy use his airforce on Hokkaido - the whole shebang of fighters, bombers, CAS, and maybe even the surviving fragments - to effectively attack the KB and maybe sink one or more of its CVs?

I guess they would have difficulties finding the KB?

< Message edited by cwDeici -- 12/22/2011 3:47:00 AM >

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Post #: 4641
RE: Blood in the skies - 12/22/2011 4:53:36 AM   
bigred


Posts: 3599
Joined: 12/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ADB123

quote:

how is it possible that my fighters on the CVEs performed so badly?! they didn't even engage the raids...look at the first raid....10 fighters lost on each side and that's all.... the CVEs don't suffer the "sitting in base" penalty right?


Unless something has changed in the Betas, any CV, CVEs included, fly fewer planes if they are in a shore/base hex. Only the AI is immune.

As an aside - all of the "ammo explosion" messages are a good lesson for everyone who wants to use their CVEs as Combat Carriers...

Good luck -

I read somewhere that CVEs in shallow water fly at 100%operations. CV/CVLs are cut to 50% operational launch ability.
Another question GJ. What was the size of the CVE TF?
Should we try to keep the CVE TFs under ship size of 14? I recall something about a CV TF "effected by more than 14 ships".
What was the commanders naval/air rating?
And what is the name of the commander.
Please excuse me for being obsessive analytical.

< Message edited by bigred -- 12/22/2011 5:36:37 AM >

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Post #: 4642
RE: Blood in the skies - 12/22/2011 4:59:02 AM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		I am glad to summarize the rule to clear up the abundant and near-perpetual uncertainty that attaches to this rule.

The depth of the water has nothing to do with carrier operations.

The presence of land has nothing to do with carrier operations.

It is only the presence of a base that affects carrier operations. In a base hex, fleet carrier (CV and CVL) air operations are halved. CVE air operations are unaffected.

So, a fleet carrier operating in a hex that is part land and part water is not affecte. But a fleet carrier operating in a base hex is affected.

(in reply to bigred)
Post #: 4643
RE: Blood in the skies - 12/22/2011 5:47:22 AM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		Whoa...I take a few hours off and miss all the action. Sorry about your mini disaster but to put it in perspective, I firmly believe that it is a much less significant disaster inflicted on you than what you did to Rader in the last two months. You can recover in time but he cannot because he just can't drive you out of Hokkaido. Take a week off to relax and regain your perspective. Sometimes time spent with a girlfriend can be much better than time with AE. Perhaps you won't win in 45 after all. Big deal, you will have more time to play, get to see some fun late war toys and we all get to read a great AAR.

Rader deserves much credit. It was a beautiful plan and he pulled it off with no flaws. His deception in the Pacific was a good one. I don't want to rub dirt into your wound but Rader did what he "had" to do-attack you with his fleet in the only place that mattered, Northern Japan. He had no other options. For that reason your carriers should have been there because it is the one point on the map where you knew he would show up sooner or later.Nothing else he does anywhere else on the map matters and that still applies after your defeat. This is where you will fight him again because even though he cracked you on the head pretty hard, it still is not enough to remove him from the dilemma that he is in.

It is regrettable that Allied subs do not work in a picket line. Considering that they all carried advanced surface search radar at this point in the war they should almost always spot the Japanese fleet. But they don't and we know they don't. For this reason, you always need a picket line of ships on any open ocean front where the enemy can sweep in. Five CVEs with patrolling TBFs on them spaced at ten hex intervals would have spotted any move by KB. You most certainly might have lost two or three CVEs but would have saved 30 more in the end.

I will say nothing more about Allied naval flak. The fact that you only shot down 90 aircraft with flak demonstrates how totally screwed up this aspect of the game is. They have done so much to fix this great game. However, I am at a loss to explain why this has not been addressed

Anyhow, a little victory disease hurts a bit but in the end will make for a more interesting game for the rest of us

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Post #: 4644
RE: Blood in the skies - 12/22/2011 6:13:30 AM   
cwDeici

 

Posts: 70
Joined: 12/6/2011
Status: offline 		I'm surprised he waited that long to go through with a gamble like this, I thought Rader had lost focus and was floundering. By the time Hokkaido fell I was expecting a huge fleet engagement within the month, and by the time those three torps clunked into the Akagi way down south I thought he'd completely lost it. What clever bait! Also I'm surprised he didn't rely more on massive Kami waves like I expected, I guess he really is shy of pilots.

At any rate he might be back with his KB as soon as he can replace most of his losses.

< Message edited by cwDeici -- 12/22/2011 6:22:29 AM >

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Post #: 4645
RE: Blood in the skies - 12/22/2011 6:13:34 AM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline 		Hi GreyJoy,

I haven't kept up on this AAR, but keep hearing good things about it elsewhere in the forum. Anything interesting happening in the last few game months?

Regards,

Chickenboy



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Post #: 4646
RE: Blood in the skies - 12/22/2011 6:14:14 AM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline

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Post #: 4647
RE: Blood in the skies - 12/22/2011 6:15:17 AM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton
I will say nothing more about Allied naval flak. The fact that you only shot down 90 aircraft with flak demonstrates how totally screwed up this aspect of the game is.

Dood...I thought you weren't gonna say anything more about Allied flak?

_____________________________


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Post #: 4648
RE: Blood in the skies - 12/22/2011 6:51:32 AM   
Vetamur

 

Posts: 191
Joined: 10/16/2006
Status: offline 		Wow.. yeah, you cant leave for a few hours without something happening.

I hope you recover GJ, especially your morale, which seems to have taken the biggest hit. Live and learn as they say. Good luck in continuing the good fight.

(in reply to crsutton)
Post #: 4649
RE: Blood in the skies - 12/22/2011 7:12:17 AM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline 		Yup guys...after a good sleep and a cup of coffea everything is fine again :-)

See u later with some updates

(in reply to Vetamur)
Post #: 4650
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