The State of Wargaming:An Editorial

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The State of Wargaming:An Editorial - 10/18/2002 12:35:14 PM

KG Erwin

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From: Cross Lanes WV USA
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I think the industry has a bright future--the games I've seen released in the last few years are qualitatively much better than what we saw in the 80s-early 90s. The programmers are now learning how to translate the old boardgame experience to the PC. I have some boardgames that I believe are masterworks simply in the quality of the presentation--they're beautiful to look at and study, but , frankly, you just can't play them. For example--I bought an SPI game of Kursk (1980)--great map--historically-accurate OOBs and a wonderful-looking counter set--but really unplayable. It's an historical tool, not a game to be actually played. I could easily say the same thing for my copy of Terrible Swift Sword (the TSR regimental-level Gettysburg game) or War In The East (Jim Dunnigan's division-level East Front game with 2000 ! counters). I own copies of these, but they're just occupying closet space. Now, we have the upcoming Korsun pocket and RGW and John Tiller's Gettysburg, which offer these massively-scaled conflicts on a PC screen. I enjoy the classic battles of antiquity with The Great Battles series. We even have submarine sims like 688(I) Hunter/Killer, which I still play now & then. We have tactical simulations like the Steel Panthers series(Matrix & SP Camo). This is just a small sample of what's available. We now have the best of all worlds for a player of games of war, especially a guy like me who loves the massive land confrontations--this is a great time to be alive, and to be a wargamer.

Post #: 1

Gettysburg - 10/18/2002 9:00:28 PM

wpurdom

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Joined: 10/27/2000
From: Decatur, GA, USA
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Where do I find out about "John Tiller's Gettysburg."

(in reply to KG Erwin)

Post #: 2

- 10/18/2002 9:53:40 PM

Les_the_Sarge_9_1

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At the risk of offending KG (I don't wish to steal his threads thunder) I posted a comment of my own on another thread (please comment if you can).

In suport of KGs thread, I think wargaming has a future.

In spite of the dire comments that have gone forward on the "Decline" thread though, I think wargaming has a future.

"Computer" wargaming might not have much of a future, but board gaming and miniatures are not going anywhere any time soon.

I have seen a few new board games produced in recent years, and they were quite nicely done.
We might not seen the frantic volume of the 70s, but then again, some things of the 70s are best left in the 70s as well eh hehe.

I think the net has proven a useful tool for wargaming especially board gaming venues.
I would not have a clue as to the continuing sale of some titles if I was unable to search them out online eh.

Where computer wargaming is going is anyones guess. I have a big ole batch of old DOS wargames and frankly I could care less how "accurate" they were when released.
I can't get most of them to run without standing on my head. Way to much aggrivation. Computer wargames have to do it better than a board game or die.

My board games have the same limitations they always had. I am quite pleased with each and every purchase. Every now and then I dust one off and go looking fer a youngun to teach.

I was quite happy to get all of the V for Victory games for my computer. Last time I wanted to check them out, I could not get them to install. Odds are they wll never ever again have any worth to me. They were good then, now they are just cds on a shelf.

Computer wargames need to step out of the notion they can do it better than a board game.
Computer programers need to start realising, its the power of the computer that makes the computer useful.
Computer wargames are not all they are often cracked up to be.
A wargame is more than just graphics and sounds.
And lately, that is all they have become.

A computer is a tool, I think the edge has been dulled. It's time to sharpen that edge. Make the computer work FOR us. And stop pretending it can BE one of us.

_____________________________

I LIKE that my life bothers them,
Why should I be the only one bothered by it eh.

(in reply to KG Erwin)

Post #: 3

For wpurdom - 10/18/2002 10:53:08 PM

KG Erwin

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From: Cross Lanes WV USA
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To find info on John Tiller's Battleground series, go here: http://www.talonsoft.com/battleground/index.html I found a copy of the BG Collectors Series 2 at a retail software outlet a couple of years ago for $20.

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Post #: 4

- 10/18/2002 11:55:40 PM

nelmsm1

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Joined: 1/21/2002
From: Texas
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The Battleground series is getting hard to find. I bought most of my copies on E-Bay pretty cheaply. Do a search using "Talonsoft" or "Battleground." You also might want to check out Tiller's new Civil War design, Campaign Corinth. It has improved the engine, in my opinion, and adds the additional feature of a campaign game where you can select your strategic option and your opponent his and then the game presents you with a scenario based on these choices. You fight it out and then based on the results of that fight are presented with another set of choices. Losses carry over from one fight to the next. Great game. You can find it at HPS.com. If you are interested in the games and would like to do a little role playing also you can check out the [URL=http://www.wargame.ch/wc/acw/ACWmainpage.htm]American Civil War Gaming Club[/URL]

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- 10/19/2002 5:00:29 AM

Brigz

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Joined: 1/20/2002
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by nelmsm
[B]The Battleground series is getting hard to find. I bought most of my copies on E-Bay pretty cheaply. Do a search using "Talonsoft" or "Battleground." You also might want to check out Tiller's new Civil War design, Campaign Corinth. It has improved the engine, in my opinion, and adds the additional feature of a campaign game where you can select your strategic option and your opponent his and then the game presents you with a scenario based on these choices. You fight it out and then based on the results of that fight are presented with another set of choices. Losses carry over from one fight to the next. Great game. You can find it at HPS.com. If you are interested in the games and would like to do a little role playing also you can check out the [URL=http://www.wargame.ch/wc/acw/ACWmainpage.htm]American Civil War Gaming Club[/URL] [/B][/QUOTE]

You might want to just buy HPS's "Campaign Corinth" by Tiller and forget about the older versions. It's a much improved version of the old Talonsoft games and I have been able to convert all the older Talonsoft Civil War games over to it, maps and all. Several people have put them on the web for download, including Gettysburg. Same game files, just runs on the newer version. Anyone interested can contact me here.

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next step? - 10/28/2002 4:01:17 AM

wpurdom

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From: Decatur, GA, USA
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1. You might want to just buy HPS's "Campaign Corinth" by Tiller and forget about the older versions. It's a much improved version of the old Talonsoft games and I have been able to convert all the older Talonsoft Civil War games over to it, maps and all.
2. Several people have put them on the web for download, including Gettysburg. Same game files, just runs on the newer version. Anyone interested can contact me here.

Dear Dave Briggs:
I've done step 1; how do I do step 2. My email address is
[email]wpurdom@randomc.com[/email]

(in reply to KG Erwin)

Post #: 7

Back on topic... - 10/28/2002 6:16:20 AM

Jacc

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Joined: 4/30/2001
From: Viikki Imperium
Status: offline

There are two bands competiting. One is old and ugly Rolling Stones. The another is cute and sexy Britney Spears. Britney wins the match, since she's so cute and sexy. Next year there's a new comptetition. The Rolling Stones, once again, meet the nefarious Shakira, who wins. Third year there is a third competition, with Kylie Minonegunguengnueugnuu vs. Rolling Stones, and again the Rolling Stones lose. After twenty years, the Rolling Stones are still rollin', losing every match, but no one remembers the other participants.

Wargaming is usually labelled as "old" and "ugly", but which one will be remembered longer? As long as the wargamers demand something and are also ready to support the projects themselves, the wargaming isn't going to die.

_____________________________

Pain is for the weak.

(in reply to KG Erwin)

Post #: 8

- 11/5/2002 9:09:16 AM

brent_2

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From: Rheingau, Hesse, DE
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I wonder how many kids playing return to castle wolfenstein know why it is called 'return'?

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I'm essentially graphically and history oriented, unfortunately to connect the two I have to do maths. I hate maths.
CSO_Brent

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- 11/11/2002 12:32:17 AM

Trigger1027

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Hey, I know what the 'return' means :) lol.
The problem with wargames is that they are turn-based and the younger generations have little patience and wargames are not marketted properly.

(in reply to KG Erwin)

Post #: 10

- 11/22/2002 1:06:00 AM

Louis Jones

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Joined: 1/5/2001
From: Southeast Louisiana
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[QUOTE]I wonder how many kids playing return to castle wolfenstein know why it is called 'return'?[/QUOTE]

LoL. Where I work the pilots have a screen saver of a maze of brick walls. When ever I see it, I expect to see a nazi, or worse a dog around every corner.:D

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- 11/22/2002 1:18:25 AM

Les_the_Sarge_9_1

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Forget why it's called "return" hehe.

Heck I say RPG and the default thought process is Everquest or something similar. Certainly not something played with several buddies at a table and eating some pizza and chucking odd shaped dice.

I say wargame, and the default process is certainly not about something played on a table. And they seem to think if it involves weapons, you are playing a wargame.

I say rules manual, and I get no response at all. Not surprising there.

It seems like the average non-grognard gamer has no idea what it is like to actually have to "learn" a game FIRST ie no just playing it and figuring it out along the way.

_____________________________

I LIKE that my life bothers them,
Why should I be the only one bothered by it eh.

(in reply to KG Erwin)

Post #: 12

- 11/22/2002 1:42:37 AM

Jim1954

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From: Dallas
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I used to have, on a machine waaaayyy back when, an edited version of the original wolfenstein that had all of the artwork on the walls replaced with, pictures of shall we say , scantily-to-none clad lovelies, that would distract you whilst the evil Nazis snuck up behind you and filled you full of holes.

:D

(in reply to KG Erwin)

Post #: 13