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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> After Action Reports >> RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE

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RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE - 1/9/2012 10:00:27 AM

JohnDillworth

Posts: 3100
Joined: 3/19/2009
Status: offline

quote:

So everything is loaded guys.

Looks like you are going in without an avatar son and that's just bad planning.

_____________________________

Today I come bearing an olive branch in one hand, and the freedom fighter's gun in the other. Do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. I repeat, do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. - Yasser Arafat Speech to UN General Assembly

(in reply to CaptBeefheart)

Post #: 5101

RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE - 1/9/2012 10:32:07 AM

GreyJoy

Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

quote:

So everything is loaded guys.

Looks like you are going in without an avatar son and that's just bad planning.

LOL

You're right...i promise today i'll go and look for a new avatar

(in reply to JohnDillworth)

Post #: 5102

RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE - 1/9/2012 10:47:06 AM

EUBanana

Posts: 4552
Joined: 9/30/2003
From: Little England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: princep01
princepBolton

Roose Bolton is awesome.

_____________________________

(in reply to princep01)

Post #: 5103

RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE - 1/9/2012 11:06:01 AM

GreyJoy

Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: EUBanana

quote:

ORIGINAL: princep01
princepBolton

Roose Bolton is awesome.

His bastard son being a little bit harsher

(in reply to EUBanana)

Post #: 5104

RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE - 1/9/2012 12:34:06 PM

beppi

Posts: 382
Joined: 3/11/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

So everything is loaded guys. The bulk of my amphib TFs should be able to unload within the first 2 days...so to say after the first turn we should be able to get back...despite the presence of some xAPs and xAKs i've tried to compensate adding a lot of empty LCIs and LSTs which should help the other ships unloading rates.
4 ACGs will support the invasion (with only one actually loaded for this wave), divided into�5 different 100-ships TF.

Basically the TF composition is this one (with some small differences)

1 BB -> I would add at least a second BB. If your BB gets hit by 200 small calibre shells it still can sink. (Had that once in a game against the AI. 2 or 3 BB tend to spread the hits better.
10 DDs -> I would add less DDs. Basically the DDs / DE /PFs are for protection against Subs. Usually 6-7 DD/DEs are enough
5 AMs -> Do AMs even work if they are in an amphib TF ? Never tested it that way and usally i send Minesweeping TFs the night before, even if losses are astronomical against CDs
5 SCs -> What for ? They just plain suck. They are bad against Subs (low EXP) and cannot soak up any damage. Skip them and add some more LST.
5 DE/PFs
20 APA (or 10 APAs+10 xAPs) -> rest of the composition is ok. But i never add LCI to a amphib TF. Do they work ? Always thought that empy AKA/APA will support the landing and not LCI. I might be wrong.
10 AKA (or 5 AKAs+ 5 xAks
10 LST/LSD (loaded)
10 LST (with only supplies)
10 LCI (empty)
10 LCI (G)
4�support ships

I'm still not sure if i need to add more warships (CAs basically) or if this composition is enough to absorb the punishment of the CD guns.. Because if i wanna add more warships, then i have to create more smaller TFs...and i really don't have many good admirals specialized in landing operations...

Any idea is this is optimized or not?

remove the SC and some of the escorts (DDs/DEs/PF). The small escors do not supress well and are mainly to protect against subs. Add some of the old slow CLs and CAs. Add a second BB and if possible even a third one to each TF. It is pita to see a BB go down because it was hit by 300 5 inc shells which is possible.

I hate CAs and CLs in an invasion TF, better would be 5-6 BBs. But noone has enough BBs so you need CAs and CLs. They can be sunk during the landing but it is not very common. But they gather a lot of sys damage.

To clarify i am not sure if there is a best amphib TF composition. Personally i tend to have a first landing TF with only AKA/APA/LST which will drop the first invasion force and at least 300+ naval support. Then the xAP fleets come in a turn later. Every xAP fleet has some space in the TF left (only 85 - 90 ships) and i move some APA/AKA which have unloaded to the second wave TFs. I always unload the x(AP/AK) tfs a turn later.

< Message edited by beppi -- 1/9/2012 12:40:11 PM >

(in reply to GreyJoy)

Post #: 5105

RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE - 1/9/2012 12:39:43 PM

GreyJoy

Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline

Thx beppi!
Unfortunately i only have a small amount of slow old BBs and none left of the old CLs...
As far as i know empty LCIs help just like empty APAs...can somebody confirm this?
Ok, i'll try to use some fast BBs and old CAs in addition...even if it's a shame to use these valuable ships in this role...:-/

(in reply to beppi)

Post #: 5106

RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE - 1/9/2012 12:42:50 PM

GreyJoy

Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: beppi

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

So everything is loaded guys. The bulk of my amphib TFs should be able to unload within the first 2 days...so to say after the first turn we should be able to get back...despite the presence of some xAPs and xAKs i've tried to compensate adding a lot of empty LCIs and LSTs which should help the other ships unloading rates.
4 ACGs will support the invasion (with only one actually loaded for this wave), divided into�5 different 100-ships TF.

Basically the TF composition is this one (with some small differences)

1 BB -> I would add at least a second BB. If your BB gets hit by 200 small calibre shells it still can sink. (Had that once in a game against the AI. 2 or 3 BB tend to spread the hits better.
10 DDs -> I would add less DDs. Basically the DDs / DE /PFs are for protection against Subs. Usually 6-7 DD/DEs are enough
5 AMs -> Do AMs even work if they are in an amphib TF ? Never tested it that way and usally i send Minesweeping TFs the night before, even if losses are astronomical against CDs
5 SCs -> What for ? They just plain suck. They are bad against Subs (low EXP) and cannot soak up any damage. Skip them and add some more LST.
5 DE/PFs
20 APA (or 10 APAs+10 xAPs) -> rest of the composition is ok. But i never add LCI to a amphib TF. Do they work ? Always thought that empy AKA/APA will support the landing and not LCI. I might be wrong.
10 AKA (or 5 AKAs+ 5 xAks
10 LST/LSD (loaded)
10 LST (with only supplies)
10 LCI (empty)
10 LCI (G)
4�support ships

I'm still not sure if i need to add more warships (CAs basically) or if this composition is enough to absorb the punishment of the CD guns.. Because if i wanna add more warships, then i have to create more smaller TFs...and i really don't have many good admirals specialized in landing operations...

Any idea is this is optimized or not?

remove the SC and some of the escorts (DDs/DEs/PF). The small escors do not supress well and are mainly to protect against subs. Add some of the old slow CLs and CAs. Add a second BB and if possible even a third one to each TF. It is pita to see a BB go down because it was hit by 300 5 inc shells which is possible.

I hate CAs and CLs in an invasion TF, better would be 5-6 BBs. But noone has enough BBs so you need CAs and CLs. They can be sunk during the landing but it is not very common. But they gather a lot of sys damage.

To clarify i am not sure if there is a best amphib TF composition. Personally i tend to have a first landing TF with only AKA/APA/LST which will drop the first invasion force and at least 300+ naval support. Then the xAP fleets come in a turn later. Every xAP fleet has some space in the TF left (only 85 - 90 ships) and i move some APA/AKA which have unloaded to the second wave TFs. I always unload the x(AP/AK) tfs a turn later.

When u have more than 400 transports is pretty difficult to have all the TFs well escorted...will try to have 2BBs for every TF and 2cruisers in each...

(in reply to beppi)

Post #: 5107

RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE - 1/9/2012 12:47:41 PM

GreyJoy

Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: beppi

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

So everything is loaded guys. The bulk of my amphib TFs should be able to unload within the first 2 days...so to say after the first turn we should be able to get back...despite the presence of some xAPs and xAKs i've tried to compensate adding a lot of empty LCIs and LSTs which should help the other ships unloading rates.
4 ACGs will support the invasion (with only one actually loaded for this wave), divided into�5 different 100-ships TF.

Basically the TF composition is this one (with some small differences)

1 BB -> I would add at least a second BB. If your BB gets hit by 200 small calibre shells it still can sink. (Had that once in a game against the AI. 2 or 3 BB tend to spread the hits better.
10 DDs -> I would add less DDs. Basically the DDs / DE /PFs are for protection against Subs. Usually 6-7 DD/DEs are enough
5 AMs -> Do AMs even work if they are in an amphib TF ? Never tested it that way and usally i send Minesweeping TFs the night before, even if losses are astronomical against CDs
5 SCs -> What for ? They just plain suck. They are bad against Subs (low EXP) and cannot soak up any damage. Skip them and add some more LST.
5 DE/PFs
20 APA (or 10 APAs+10 xAPs) -> rest of the composition is ok. But i never add LCI to a amphib TF. Do they work ? Always thought that empy AKA/APA will support the landing and not LCI. I might be wrong.
10 AKA (or 5 AKAs+ 5 xAks
10 LST/LSD (loaded)
10 LST (with only supplies)
10 LCI (empty)
10 LCI (G)
4�support ships

I'm still not sure if i need to add more warships (CAs basically) or if this composition is enough to absorb the punishment of the CD guns.. Because if i wanna add more warships, then i have to create more smaller TFs...and i really don't have many good admirals specialized in landing operations...

Any idea is this is optimized or not?

remove the SC and some of the escorts (DDs/DEs/PF). The small escors do not supress well and are mainly to protect against subs. Add some of the old slow CLs and CAs. Add a second BB and if possible even a third one to each TF. It is pita to see a BB go down because it was hit by 300 5 inc shells which is possible.

I hate CAs and CLs in an invasion TF, better would be 5-6 BBs. But noone has enough BBs so you need CAs and CLs. They can be sunk during the landing but it is not very common. But they gather a lot of sys damage.

To clarify i am not sure if there is a best amphib TF composition. Personally i tend to have a first landing TF with only AKA/APA/LST which will drop the first invasion force and at least 300+ naval support. Then the xAP fleets come in a turn later. Every xAP fleet has some space in the TF left (only 85 - 90 ships) and i move some APA/AKA which have unloaded to the second wave TFs. I always unload the x(AP/AK) tfs a turn later.

Got it. Thx

But please consider that here we're landing under the threat of more than 2000 enemy bombers and 3000fighters...so i cannot lose not even a turn...everything should be unloaded within the first 2 days...

(in reply to beppi)

Post #: 5108

RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE - 1/9/2012 1:18:33 PM

JohnDillworth

Posts: 3100
Joined: 3/19/2009
Status: offline

quote:

His bastard son being a little bit harsher

OK, I'm about 3/4 done with Storm of Swords, the wrong people keep dying and that little bastard is still alive. Reading as fast as I can but careful that the cryptic comments do not introduce spoilers. By the way, I see no possible way GreyJoy can be redeemed in these books

_____________________________

(in reply to GreyJoy)

Post #: 5109

RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE - 1/9/2012 1:19:53 PM

CaptBeefheart

Posts: 2301
Joined: 7/4/2003
From: Seoul, Korea
Status: offline

I personally would rather use those fast BBs in the primary SCTF and sprinkled amongst the CVs. Of course, I've only landed at Okinawa and Kanoya vs. the AI so perhaps I haven't experienced the full wrath of CDs.

To me it seems your air units are doing a fair bit of damage to his shore guns in terms of destroyed and disabled.

Cheers,
CC

_____________________________

Beer, because barley makes lousy bread.

(in reply to GreyJoy)

Post #: 5110

RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE - 1/9/2012 1:23:54 PM

CaptBeefheart

Posts: 2301
Joined: 7/4/2003
From: Seoul, Korea
Status: offline

Mr. Dillworth: Don't take this the wrong way or anything, but GJ and Princep got me going on that "Game of Thrones" series and I'm way behind. Would appreciate a little less commentary. Thanks.

Cheers,
CC

_____________________________

Beer, because barley makes lousy bread.

(in reply to CaptBeefheart)

Post #: 5111

RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE - 1/9/2012 1:27:09 PM

GreyJoy

Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

quote:

His bastard son being a little bit harsher

OK, I'm about 3/4 done with Storm of Swords, the wrong people keep dying and that little bastard is still alive. Reading as fast as I can but careful that the cryptic comments do not introduce spoilers. By the way, I see no possible way GreyJoy can be redeemed in these books

Aren't u loving it?!?!?!?!
Best books ever!
I'm re-reading dance with dragons for the 2nd time in english and soon i'll start the italian version!! Can't wait for the secomd season of the HBO series.....
Suggested them to Rader and he too fell in love with this epic book series

(in reply to JohnDillworth)

Post #: 5112

RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE - 1/9/2012 1:28:57 PM

GreyJoy

Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Commander Cody

Mr. Dillworth: Don't take this the wrong way or anything, but GJ and Princep got me going on that "Game of Thrones" series and I'm way behind. Would appreciate a little less commentary. Thanks.

Cheers,
CC

U mean the books or the tv series?
U need to go on mate....it will be the best reading experience of your life

(in reply to CaptBeefheart)

Post #: 5113

RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE - 1/9/2012 1:38:39 PM

GreyJoy

Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Commander Cody

I personally would rather use those fast BBs in the primary SCTF and sprinkled amongst the CVs. Of course, I've only landed at Okinawa and Kanoya vs. the AI so perhaps I haven't experienced the full wrath of CDs.

To me it seems your air units are doing a fair bit of damage to his shore guns in terms of destroyed and disabled.

Cheers,
CC

That is my actual composition cc...fast BBs are grouped togheder in 3 strong SCTFs and among the CV fleet...plus i have 2 old brit BBs operating as a bombarment group...not that easy to decide what to do...should i fear those CD guns so much...???

(in reply to CaptBeefheart)

Post #: 5114

RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE - 1/9/2012 1:44:04 PM

JohnDillworth

Posts: 3100
Joined: 3/19/2009
Status: offline

quote:

Mr. Dillworth: Don't take this the wrong way or anything, but GJ and Princep got me going on that "Game of Thrones" series and I'm way behind. Would appreciate a little less commentary. Thanks.

Cheers,
CC

no offense taken and profuse apologies offered. I just assume I am the last person to do everything.

The good news is if you are way behind you still have the pleasure of reading them for the first time

_____________________________

(in reply to GreyJoy)

Post #: 5115

RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE - 1/9/2012 2:01:13 PM

beppi

Posts: 382
Joined: 3/11/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

quote:

ORIGINAL: beppi

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

So everything is loaded guys. The bulk of my amphib TFs should be able to unload within the first 2 days...so to say after the first turn we should be able to get back...despite the presence of some xAPs and xAKs i've tried to compensate adding a lot of empty LCIs and LSTs which should help the other ships unloading rates.
4 ACGs will support the invasion (with only one actually loaded for this wave), divided into�5 different 100-ships TF.

Basically the TF composition is this one (with some small differences)

1 BB -> I would add at least a second BB. If your BB gets hit by 200 small calibre shells it still can sink. (Had that once in a game against the AI. 2 or 3 BB tend to spread the hits better.
10 DDs -> I would add less DDs. Basically the DDs / DE /PFs are for protection against Subs. Usually 6-7 DD/DEs are enough
5 AMs -> Do AMs even work if they are in an amphib TF ? Never tested it that way and usally i send Minesweeping TFs the night before, even if losses are astronomical against CDs
5 SCs -> What for ? They just plain suck. They are bad against Subs (low EXP) and cannot soak up any damage. Skip them and add some more LST.
5 DE/PFs
20 APA (or 10 APAs+10 xAPs) -> rest of the composition is ok. But i never add LCI to a amphib TF. Do they work ? Always thought that empy AKA/APA will support the landing and not LCI. I might be wrong.
10 AKA (or 5 AKAs+ 5 xAks
10 LST/LSD (loaded)
10 LST (with only supplies)
10 LCI (empty)
10 LCI (G)
4�support ships

I'm still not sure if i need to add more warships (CAs basically) or if this composition is enough to absorb the punishment of the CD guns.. Because if i wanna add more warships, then i have to create more smaller TFs...and i really don't have many good admirals specialized in landing operations...

Any idea is this is optimized or not?

remove the SC and some of the escorts (DDs/DEs/PF). The small escors do not supress well and are mainly to protect against subs. Add some of the old slow CLs and CAs. Add a second BB and if possible even a third one to each TF. It is pita to see a BB go down because it was hit by 300 5 inc shells which is possible.

I hate CAs and CLs in an invasion TF, better would be 5-6 BBs. But noone has enough BBs so you need CAs and CLs. They can be sunk during the landing but it is not very common. But they gather a lot of sys damage.

To clarify i am not sure if there is a best amphib TF composition. Personally i tend to have a first landing TF with only AKA/APA/LST which will drop the first invasion force and at least 300+ naval support. Then the xAP fleets come in a turn later. Every xAP fleet has some space in the TF left (only 85 - 90 ships) and i move some APA/AKA which have unloaded to the second wave TFs. I always unload the x(AP/AK) tfs a turn later.

Got it. Thx

But please consider that here we're landing under the threat of more than 2000 enemy bombers and 3000fighters...so i cannot lose not even a turn...everything should be unloaded within the first 2 days...

Yes i am considering this, so please only take my comments as "passive information". At most i faced a 1000 planes during a landing and i never have invaded Japanese homeland in a Scen2 against a skilled opponent. So please i only give some "passive advises" to inspire you. As noone every pulled such a stunt off in AE with the current beta patches and all the 1000 changes it is your hard job to decide in the end

.

< Message edited by beppi -- 1/9/2012 2:06:14 PM >

(in reply to GreyJoy)

Post #: 5116

RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE - 1/9/2012 2:14:56 PM

JohnDillworth

Posts: 3100
Joined: 3/19/2009
Status: offline

quote:

Aren't u loving it?!?!?!?!
Best books ever!
I'm re-reading dance with dragons for the 2nd time in english and soon i'll start the italian version!! Can't wait for the secomd season of the HBO series.....
Suggested them to Rader and he too fell in love with this epic book series

I am loving these. The only problem is that they are huge and command quite an investment in my reading time. My kindle is getting backed up with other stuff whilst I read these. I'm going to finish Storm of Swords this week and then take a break to catch up on some other stuff.

_____________________________

(in reply to beppi)

Post #: 5117

RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE - 1/9/2012 2:26:09 PM

Panther Bait

Posts: 654
Joined: 8/30/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

quote:

Aren't u loving it?!?!?!?!
Best books ever!
I'm re-reading dance with dragons for the 2nd time in english and soon i'll start the italian version!! Can't wait for the secomd season of the HBO series.....
Suggested them to Rader and he too fell in love with this epic book series

I am loving these. The only problem is that they are huge and command quite an investment in my reading time. My kindle is getting backed up with other stuff whilst I read these. I'm going to finish Storm of Swords this week and then take a break to catch up on some other stuff.

I read Game of Thrones when it came out, then put the series aside as the follow-on books were taking forever to come out. I re-started again after watching the HBO Game of Thrones mini-series. As I started each book, I said I would take a break after this one. I started Dance with Dragons this morning after reading the first four one-after-the-other, sigh.

Looks like I'll have to take a break after this one.

Mike

P.S. You eventually get more GreyJoys to root for or against.

_____________________________

When you shoot at a destroyer and miss, it's like hit'in a wildcat in the ass with a banjo.

Nathan Dogan, USS Gurnard

(in reply to JohnDillworth)

Post #: 5118

RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE - 1/9/2012 2:29:20 PM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Thx beppi!
Unfortunately i only have a small amount of slow old BBs and none left of the old CLs...
As far as i know empty LCIs help just like empty APAs...can somebody confirm this?
Ok, i'll try to use some fast BBs and old CAs in addition...even if it's a shame to use these valuable ships in this role...:-/

Use em. If you lose this operation, and those ships, life will be hard anyway.

If you land successfully, you won't really need them for much anymore except for the signing ceremony in the Bay later.

(in reply to GreyJoy)

Post #: 5119

RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE - 1/9/2012 2:36:31 PM

GreyJoy

Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Thx beppi!
Unfortunately i only have a small amount of slow old BBs and none left of the old CLs...
As far as i know empty LCIs help just like empty APAs...can somebody confirm this?
Ok, i'll try to use some fast BBs and old CAs in addition...even if it's a shame to use these valuable ships in this role...:-/

Use em. If you lose this operation, and those ships, life will be hard anyway.

If you land successfully, you won't really need them for much anymore except for the signing ceremony in the Bay later.

You know what? You are bloody right

!!!

That's the spirit i need to have!

Hu-Ha!

Turn sent...

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 5120

RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE - 1/9/2012 3:08:33 PM

Cap Mandrake

Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

That is my actual composition cc...fast BBs are grouped togheder in 3 strong SCTFs and among the CV fleet...plus i have 2 old brit BBs operating as a bombarment group...not that easy to decide what to do...should i fear those CD guns so much...???

I think your caution over the CD guns is well placed. While it would be very nice to have a 2nd BB in each invasion taffy, it would also be nice to have 4 more BB's in bombardment groups. The bombardment group will be essentially out of main gun ammo on day 1, so it would be nice to set them to "retire" and allow them to go back to Hokkaido for more ammo so they can be used on the next turn cycle. You could set a path or speed for a 2nd BB group so it arrives on day 2.

Seems to me you will also need at least 2 fast BB-centered SCTF's in the invasion hex because Rader may divine your landing hex and send in the IJN for a night battle or have raw-meat-eating-commanders with SCTF's set to "react". You also need light SCTF's to deflect kamikaze barges and the like. Not gamey to take PT boats either considering the short distance. Sounds like you thought about all this.

As for the question of "extra" APA's..if you mean unladen I dont think that is a good idea. Better would a lighter load distributed among more APA's. Seems like you have about 1 divison per 5 APA/AP. On the question of unladen LST's, I imagine the AE designers might have gone either way on that. An LST had a main deck covering the tank deck so an AKA would have to winch the tank onto the main deck of the LST where the tank could drive down via ramp or via elevator to the tank deck for unloading when the LST was beached. This seems not very efficient. On the other hand, LST's routinely did carry smaller craft on their main deck that could be used in the landing. Of course, this may be in the rule book which I have never read.

DUKW's are modeled as "amphibious tractor" Bn's and seem to be a big help.

I just realized I don't know very much about this. You need Albert.

(in reply to GreyJoy)

Post #: 5121

RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE - 1/9/2012 3:26:24 PM

GreyJoy

Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

That is my actual composition cc...fast BBs are grouped togheder in 3 strong SCTFs and among the CV fleet...plus i have 2 old brit BBs operating as a bombarment group...not that easy to decide what to do...should i fear those CD guns so much...???

I think your caution over the CD guns is well placed. While it would be very nice to have a 2nd BB in each invasion taffy, it would also be nice to have 4 more BB's in bombardment groups. The bombardment group will be essentially out of main gun ammo on day 1, so it would be nice to set them to "retire" and allow them to go back to Hokkaido for more ammo so they can be used on the next turn cycle. You could set a path or speed for a 2nd BB group so it arrives on day 2.

Seems to me you will also need at least 2 fast BB-centered SCTF's in the invasion hex because Rader may divine your landing hex and send in the IJN for a night battle or have raw-meat-eating-commanders with SCTF's set to "react". You also need light SCTF's to deflect kamikaze barges and the like. Not gamey to take PT boats either considering the short distance. Sounds like you thought about all this.

As for the question of "extra" APA's..if you mean unladen I dont think that is a good idea. Better would a lighter load distributed among more APA's. Seems like you have about 1 divison per 5 APA/AP. On the question of unladen LST's, I imagine the AE designers might have gone either way on that. An LST had a main deck covering the tank deck so an AKA would have to winch the tank onto the main deck of the LST where the tank could drive down via ramp or via elevator to the tank deck for unloading when the LST was beached. This seems not very efficient. On the other hand, LST's routinely did carry smaller craft on their main deck that could be used in the landing. Of course, this may be in the rule book which I have never read.

DUKW's are modeled as "amphibious tractor" Bn's and seem to be a big help.

I just realized I don't know very much about this. You need Albert.

Cap, thx!

My SCTFs are the following at the moment:

Heavy: BB Iowa and BB NJ, along with 2 Baltimore Class CAs and 8 Fletchers commanded by Lane
BB South Dakota and BB North Carolina, plus 2 CAs and 8 Fletchers commanded by Lee Ching.

Medium: 4 Cleveland Class CLs + 8 Fletchers
3 Cleveland Class CLs + CL Boise + 8 Fletchers
2 Fiji Class CL + 10 Brit DDs

Light: 8 Destroyer Divisions (each with 4 Fletchers DDs)

I also have 2 bombardment groups of 2 BBs each...but now i need to understand how much weight i wanna give to the bombardment TFs and how much to the landing TFs... hard call

About the LST/LCIs... as far as i know they work in helping other ships when empty...but now i'm having doubts cause it seems i'm the only one who thinks so....

I think i'll keep my surface forces composition and add to my 6 landing TFs (yes...6

) 3 more BBs (Richelieu, Valiant and Queen Elizabeth) and some more 7 old CAs (keeping the few Baltimora Class in the SCTF)... really hope this is enough...but again, with this asset my bombardment pounch becomes very "light" having only 2 BBs so...

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)

Post #: 5122

RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE - 1/9/2012 3:59:37 PM

Cap Mandrake

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Don't worry. Whatever you choose, something bad will probably happen. That is why there are so many watching.

Using LCT's and LCI's to ferry stuff ashore on the invasion beaches makes perfect sense. I think, however, the whole point of an LST was to pre-load with vehicles at the friendly port, motor up to the beach, drop the ramp and drive off. I think they did the same thing with amphibious landing craft and amphibious tanks which were disgorged offshore instead. There is, however, the bit about LST's carrying smaller landing craft aboard so the game designers may have modeled this. They seem to have known a Hell of a lot about this subject. The "Amphibous Tractor" Bn's are embarked as vehicles and are unloaded in the invasion hex like ground troops. They have a lot of Naval Support points. Unladen APA's seem like a waste of resources. Even worse, the AI seems to know which ships have troops aboard and will concentrate on laden vessels but this could be my imagination.

(in reply to GreyJoy)

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RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE - 1/9/2012 4:10:57 PM

HansBolter

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Greyjoy,

Just for your edification it's Willis "Ching" Lee so the appropriate nickname presentation is Ching Lee not Lee Ching.

His radio message to the Marines on Guadalcanal is the stuff of legend......

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Hans

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)

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RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE - 1/9/2012 4:22:21 PM

Canoerebel

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From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
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If a huge invasion of Japan in 1944 were easy, something would be wrong.

Bravo to GJ for attemping something magnificent mainly for the sake of trying to achieve something magnificent. Some players (me, I must confess) would sit back and bomb Japan forever and inflict death slowly, paper cut by paper cut, to exact the maximum amount of pain from the opponent who had caused us so much pain. Not GreyJoy! For honor, for glory, for entertainment, he goes for the throat!

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 1/9/2012 4:23:14 PM >

(in reply to HansBolter)

Post #: 5125

RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE - 1/9/2012 4:24:26 PM

jeffk3510

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From: Kansas
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I would sit back and bomb Japan.. because with his position you could blast Japan into the stone age....

A Honshu invasion makes for a much better AAR though..

_____________________________

Life is tough. The sooner you realize that, the easier it will be.

Currently chasing three kids around the Midwest.

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 5126

RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE - 1/9/2012 4:32:50 PM

GreyJoy

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Thx Cap and Hans for the infos

So anyone knows (for sure) if empty LCIs and LSTs do give a bonus to the other ships in the amphib TF?

...did lot of research on the forum but couldn't find anything...

(in reply to jeffk3510)

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RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE - 1/9/2012 4:43:39 PM

hades1001

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I don't think so because they don't have small landing crafts which can help other ships.
The manual or Michael only mentioned APA/AKA/LSI though.

(in reply to GreyJoy)

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RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE - 1/9/2012 4:51:34 PM

Dan Nichols

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Thx Cap and Hans for the infos

So anyone knows (for sure) if empty LCIs and LSTs do give a bonus to the other ships in the amphib TF?

...did lot of research on the forum but couldn't find anything...

I guess not, I was wrong.

< Message edited by Dan Nichols -- 1/10/2012 3:59:18 PM >

(in reply to GreyJoy)

Post #: 5129

RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE - 1/9/2012 4:57:56 PM

HansBolter

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dan Nichols

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Thx Cap and Hans for the infos

So anyone knows (for sure) if empty LCIs and LSTs do give a bonus to the other ships in the amphib TF?

...did lot of research on the forum but couldn't find anything...

Yes they do, but they have to be in the TF unloading to help. Also, ones that are loaded will unload and then help unload the APA and AKAs.