RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> After Action Reports >> RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE

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RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE - 1/11/2012 8:16:18 AM

castor troy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

How much experience do ships gain from shore bombardments?

from nothning to not much. After the usual ongoing defeats by inferior or equal IJN forces I tried to find a way to increase night (day is no problem anyway) experience of my ships and thought about naval bombardments. Result was frustrating. The only way to get exp up is engaging enemy ships and this means your ships will die before they will ever reach IJN levels to be competitive.

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Post #: 5311

RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE - 1/11/2012 8:29:36 AM

GreyJoy

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Very little time today to update...
Seems that my soldiers got ashore in a pretty decent fashion...but the artillery Rader has put there is powerfull...

The other very strange fact is that APAs and AKAs weren't touched by the CD guns...only xAPs, LSTs and xAKs....Rader told me he thought i didn't even have any APA with me...
The BBs didn't suck up that many shells tough....which is strange....losses is terms of transport fleet are huge and now i gotta find a way to send in the second wave...

Thank god his bombers were not in the equation.... so i can fight another day with my fleet

At Hakodate my fighters didn't do that well....

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Post #: 5312

RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE - 1/11/2012 8:37:09 AM

castor troy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

quote:

Don't ask me how...needless to say Rader's TF arrived unseen and passed over my subs....

This doesn't seem right in late 1944. air recon, subs, radar and these things drop in out of a worm hole? You capital ships do some damage and the little guys get lots of hits? This is messed up that the radar did not see these ships coming. WWI vintage BB's wade right in? I call BS

just what I've been saying for years, IJN experience edge is so drastically influencing those night engagements that they rule the Sea in 41 and they still do so in 45. Realism is thrown overboard here, it was never there and won't ever be because radar controlled firing would have torn the IJN to pieces at five times the range already the battle started off.

The technical advantage the Allied had from mid war on - aka radar controlled gunnery - comes never into play in a way you can even match the Japanese, let alone become as superior as the USN was in real life. And yes, I think this is only for game balance.

There is no way to train ships above that hardcoded level around 50 just from moving around, there is no good modelling of radar controlled gunnery (in fact, a beta patch changed the beyond visibility range firing into "fire at sight only" - I don't know what happened behind the scene though so I may misunderstand this) and so the IJN just stays in super hero state while the USN stays in dumb ass mode (except those ships that ARRIVE late war with decent exp).

Funnily enough it was BB Washington in this engagement, we all know what real life Washington did to Kirishima in 1942 , here in the game it is Washington in 1944 that gets blown out of the water. While SoDak was hit several times at what 4 or 5k yards, Washington was firing from over 10k yards and landed dozens of hits on Kirishima in real life. In the game I think I could accept the IJN performing better than the USN when being in visual range but the flaw starts right here, the IJN should be hard pushed to even get into visual range without being heavily hit already by excellently working radar controlled gunnery of the USN ships.

Maybe the code prevents a reasonable change to bring this closer (not close but closer) to reality or it is done to keep the IJN competitive throughout the war, I don't know. But noone of all those people on this excellent forum with so many experts on this matter around can really think it would be realistic to see those massacres all the time. Yes, some lucky die rolls also result in a USN victory now and then, but the majority of engagements just sees clear IJN victories. And so the game lets vintage WWI IJN BBs being superior to modern USN BBs in even at the end of the war. Oh well, would it happen to me, I could tell myselve once more to not engage the IJN with my ships.

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Post #: 5313

RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE - 1/11/2012 8:42:11 AM

castor troy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: House Stark

About the surface battle: it seems that the low visibility allowed the Japanese to get the upper hand with torpedoes and such...so much for radar as an advantage. In addition, did it seem like your task force was low on ammo after the bombardment run, or had it been replenished back at base before it engaged the Japanese?

that's the funny thing about the game, low visibility should be a DISADVANTAGE for the IJN as they can't see sh*t and the USN could (would in real life) make use of their radar controlled gunnery. In the game, the worse the visibility, the better for the IJN. Does that sound right to anyone? Yeah, I know, being an Allied or Japanese fanboy does make a lot of crazy things sound right to one or the other sound but if one hasn't lost all reasonable thinking than he might take a minute to really think about it.

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RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE - 1/11/2012 8:49:56 AM

jeffs

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Wow

Lots of blood..
You did get 170,000 troops onto Honshu!

Hopefully you can start to push him off...Amazing to see 4000 guns fire at a landing force....

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political and strategic mistakes live forever". The authors were refering to Japan but the same could be said of the US misadventure in Iraq

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Post #: 5315

RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE - 1/11/2012 9:00:11 AM

castor troy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

as u requested...
losses have been high...with lots of hellcats shot down on the first wave...let's hope the sacrifice wasn't vain...

long turn....

wow, two day turns are just murderous.

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Post #: 5316

RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE - 1/11/2012 9:09:12 AM

GreyJoy

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Yes but, in asnwer to Jeffk, in Scenario 2 Rader can easily replace those losses in a couple of weeks... Number weren't my target in that raid. I needed a local air superiority for a couple of days and that one was the only method...

Now let's think about the second wave...I bet Rader is coming in force against my fleet now...

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Post #: 5317

RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE - 1/11/2012 9:47:34 AM

GreyJoy

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Troops are in perfect shape. 0 distruption and 0 disablement almost everywhere.
400k supplies ashore

Suffered more than 70 ships lost...

380 planes on each side...

Overall...the landing went pretty well.

All the troops are ashore.

Here we go!

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 5318

RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE - 1/11/2012 9:48:08 AM

GreyJoy

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RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE - 1/11/2012 10:19:32 AM

obvert

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Troops are in perfect shape. 0 distruption and 0 disablement almost everywhere.
400k supplies ashore

Suffered more than 70 ships lost...

380 planes on each side...

Overall...the landing went pretty well.

All the troops are ashore.

Here we go!

Hip! Hip! ... wait, I guess we don't want to get too overjoyed yet. There will be a lot in that base on the IJ side of the trenches soon.

Overall this several days of prep and the first two days of the invasion have been pretty damn well orchestrated. The feint, the Tokyo massacre, and now getting almost everyone on the beach in good shape. Plus 400,000 supply!!!

You've put so much thought into each little detail, and really come up with the in-between moves, the 'zwischenzug' (from chess, the "intermediate move" is a chess tactic in which a player, instead of playing the expected move first interpolates another move, posing an immediate threat that the opponent must answer).

It is epic, and legendary, and it's fun to watch piece by dramatic piece!

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Post #: 5320

RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE - 1/11/2012 11:09:15 AM

Knucles2

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The waiting is killer tho.

Well done Kimosabe!

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RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE - 1/11/2012 11:46:12 AM

String

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It is also encouraging that in bombardments the IJA takes more damage than the forces you landed.

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RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE - 1/11/2012 12:06:34 PM

Grfin Zeppelin

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Well done Ser Greyjoy.

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Post #: 5323

RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE - 1/11/2012 1:04:11 PM

GreyJoy

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Ok guys...i gotta plan for next turn now...My fleet will retire safe for some transports that will try to deliver some more supplies to the troops ashore.
I know he will now CAP Hochinoe...so i need to find a counter...
I'm thinking about a massive morning sweep, followed by a massive ground bombing in the afternoon (with bombers set to naval attack and ground attack as secondary mission).
The situation is so good on the beaches that i'm tempted to try a deliberate attack...what do you think? No fatigue, no distruption...high morale everywhere... He's already sending in reinforcements from other bases...shouldn't i try to pull down some forts before the masses arrive?

Need to plan my navy movements too...and CAP over Hakkodate now is vital...gotta be very carefull...

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Post #: 5324

RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE - 1/11/2012 1:06:48 PM

GreyJoy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Troops are in perfect shape. 0 distruption and 0 disablement almost everywhere.
400k supplies ashore

Suffered more than 70 ships lost...

380 planes on each side...

Overall...the landing went pretty well.

All the troops are ashore.

Here we go!

Hip! Hip! ... wait, I guess we don't want to get too overjoyed yet. There will be a lot in that base on the IJ side of the trenches soon.

Overall this several days of prep and the first two days of the invasion have been pretty damn well orchestrated. The feint, the Tokyo massacre, and now getting almost everyone on the beach in good shape. Plus 400,000 supply!!!

You've put so much thought into each little detail, and really come up with the in-between moves, the 'zwischenzug' (from chess, the "intermediate move" is a chess tactic in which a player, instead of playing the expected move first interpolates another move, posing an immediate threat that the opponent must answer).

It is epic, and legendary, and it's fun to watch piece by dramatic piece!

:-)

The idea was to make a sort of a double feint...he knew Hochinoe was the most plausible ojbective and he knew i had feinted a lot before...so this was actually a "feint of a feint"... Rader told me that he was waiting for me near Sendai, that's why he didn't send his fleet nor his bombers...

So far so good....now it comes the real problem...i need the second wave to get in ...and i cannot rely anymore on the surprise...we're gonna fight our way thorugh our beachhead

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Post #: 5325

RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE - 1/11/2012 1:14:51 PM

GreyJoy

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Something very strange happaned...ALL the leaders of the LCUs that have landed have been replaced by leaders with lower rank and terrible stats...what the hell happened!??!
I may understand that some of them died during the landings...but ALL of them!?!?!??! Com'on....

Just an example...everywhere is like that

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by GreyJoy -- 1/11/2012 1:17:02 PM >

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RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE - 1/11/2012 1:22:54 PM

pws1225

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That's bizarre! Do you enough PPs to set things right?

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Post #: 5327

RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE - 1/11/2012 1:25:08 PM

GreyJoy

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No, com'on...it's a bug or what?!...not a single leader remained what it was.... and there are not enough decent substitutes in the pool!!!... This may become a HUGE problem...

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Post #: 5328

RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE - 1/11/2012 1:25:46 PM

GreyJoy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pws1225

That's bizarre! Do you enough PPs to set things right?

No...but, above all...there aren't enough good leaders in the pool....all the good ones have simply vanished!!

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Post #: 5329

RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE - 1/11/2012 1:26:12 PM

obvert

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Would tracker list if they had died? Or just the ops report?

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RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE - 1/11/2012 1:26:57 PM

pws1225

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Perhaps you should post of the Tech Support forum and let michaelm have a look.

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RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE - 1/11/2012 1:27:05 PM

Crackaces

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Something very strange happaned...ALL the leaders of the LCUs that have landed have been replaced by leaders with lower rank and terrible stats...what the hell happened!??!
I may understand that some of them died during the landings...but ALL of them!?!?!??! Com'on....

This is fixed in a special beta .. see the Tech Forum... this particualr fix is just the exe and to be copied right into the Beta2 directory ...

See .. http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3001239

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Post #: 5332

RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE - 1/11/2012 1:32:37 PM

ny59giants

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Send the last two turns to MichaelM to have a look at the leader issue. It will make a big difference when you try to attack with poor leaders in most of your divisions.

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Post #: 5333

RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE - 1/11/2012 1:38:35 PM

GreyJoy

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yes....done that... but i don't see how we can go back now....

Even if we update with the new beta...those leaders won't come back...and there are not enough of them in the pool nor i have enough PPs....

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RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE - 1/11/2012 1:44:27 PM

cwDeici

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Earlier I said I thought this invasion would fail unless Greyjoy had something up his sleeve... but 2,7k plane kills!!! He just doesn't stop amazing!!

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RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE - 1/11/2012 2:07:18 PM

HansBolter

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

yes....done that... but i don't see how we can go back now....

Even if we update with the new beta...those leaders won't come back...and there are not enough of them in the pool nor i have enough PPs....

The most awesome game in the history of AE was just fubared

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Hans

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RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE - 1/11/2012 2:09:54 PM

String

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

yes....done that... but i don't see how we can go back now....

Even if we update with the new beta...those leaders won't come back...and there are not enough of them in the pool nor i have enough PPs....

You could do a rollback one turn, install new beta, try to do exactly same orders. Should generate same results but with leaders available. But before that, check if parent fragments in previous saves have the proper leaders or not. If they don't it would be useless.

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RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE - 1/11/2012 2:17:14 PM

jeffk3510

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GJ-

I would really push this one hard before you send your turn...

I have seen a couple of threads about the leaders mysteriously vanishing during a landing....

Head over to the tech thread.

Land like that with so little dis/fat and high morale is awesome.

Touche my friend.

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Currently chasing three kids around the Midwest.

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Post #: 5338

RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE - 1/11/2012 2:17:30 PM

pws1225

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

yes....done that... but i don't see how we can go back now....

Even if we update with the new beta...those leaders won't come back...and there are not enough of them in the pool nor i have enough PPs....

The most awesome game in the history of AE was just fubared

Not yet. Let michaelm work his magic.

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Post #: 5339

RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE - 1/11/2012 2:34:48 PM

cwDeici

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As long as the savefiles are ok you'll just have to both send in the same orders and churn out the rounds till you get something highly similar.
If your savefiles record all the leaders and its easy to code then there's also the second, mindnumbing option of writing them back in one by one...

< Message edited by cwDeici -- 1/11/2012 2:35:33 PM >

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Post #: 5340