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OT Help with WWII Air Corps Photos in England

 
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OT Help with WWII Air Corps Photos in England - 1/12/2012 3:56:39 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		I am editing a story about Hazel Raines, a woman who served in the ATA during World War II, ferrying American aircraft to England. As a woman pilot in the service, she was among the first of a new "breed."

We have a selection of photos from the family of various scenes taken in England (and perhaps Canada too) during the War. The information about the photos is sketchy at best, so I wondered if you gents might be able to offer additiional input that would allow us to write more complete, and therefore more interesting, captions.

I'm going to post a series of photos. I'm interested in any input, from anything you know abuot the place the photo was taken to what and who is in the photo.

This first photo is a group of ATA pilots, a male officer, and what seems to be Eleanor Roosevelt (tall woman under umbrella). Hazel Raines is second from left. What kind of aircraft is that?

Edited to Add: I have confirmed that is Eleanor Roosevelt.




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< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 1/12/2012 7:38:54 PM >
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RE: OT Help with WWII Air Corps Photos in England - 1/12/2012 4:02:50 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Hazel Raines on the wing of what kind of aircraft? Based upon information on the back of a similar photo, I believe this was taken February 1942 at Dowal (Donal?) Aerodome, Montreal, Quebec.




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< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 1/12/2012 4:04:36 PM >

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RE: OT Help with WWII Air Corps Photos in England - 1/12/2012 4:11:23 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		I believe Hazel Raines is at right. Place unknown. Clues: signs say "Avon", something that seems like "Henley", and an advertisement for "Staybrite - Stainless Steel Ideal for Industry & The Home." Any ideas where this was taken?




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RE: OT Help with WWII Air Corps Photos in England - 1/12/2012 4:13:03 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		More to follow later (but first gotta go get a haircut, just in case you gents are interested in my minute-by-minute whereabouts).

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 4
RE: OT Help with WWII Air Corps Photos in England - 1/12/2012 4:24:52 PM   
tocaff


Posts: 4781
Joined: 10/12/2006
From: USA now in Brasil
Status: offline 		Why is it called a haircut?  Did you only have the barber cut 1 hair.  

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RE: OT Help with WWII Air Corps Photos in England - 1/12/2012 4:25:26 PM   
AW1Steve


Posts: 14507
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: Mordor Illlinois
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Hazel Raines on the wing of what kind of aircraft? Based upon information on the back of a similar photo, I believe this was taken February 1942 at Dowal (Donal?) Aerodome, Montreal, Quebec.






It looks like a Harvard, the comonwealth version of a AT-6.

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RE: OT Help with WWII Air Corps Photos in England - 1/12/2012 4:26:19 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline 		Can't see anything more back there in those signs. I opened them up in Photoshop, increased contrast and sharpened, but the file size is too small to read anything. I'm sure someone here will know where they're from or some other information though.





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RE: OT Help with WWII Air Corps Photos in England - 1/12/2012 4:26:47 PM   
AW1Steve


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From: Mordor Illlinois
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I believe Hazel Raines is at right. Place unknown. Clues: signs say "Avon", something that seems like "Henley", and an advertisement for "Staybrite - Stainless Steel Ideal for Industry & The Home." Any ideas where this was taken?






Henley upon Avon?

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Post #: 8
RE: OT Help with WWII Air Corps Photos in England - 1/12/2012 4:27:50 PM   
AW1Steve


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From: Mordor Illlinois
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tocaff

Why is it called a haircut?  Did you only have the barber cut 1 hair.  


His barber is REALLY oldschool and cuts one at a time!

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RE: OT Help with WWII Air Corps Photos in England - 1/12/2012 4:51:19 PM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8683
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline 		I got this through google:

"“Staybrite” was the trade name given to 18/8 stainless steel (i.e. 18% chromium, 8% nickel) in 1924 by steelmakers Thomas Firth of Sheffield when they began to publicise this remarkable material that had been discovered, by chance, by their metallurgist Harry Brearley in 1913 and further developed by his successor Dr W H Hatfield. "

doesn't seem to help...


There is no town "Henley upon Avon" (Henley is on the Thames, a good distance away from the Avon), but there is a Henley Street in Stratford upon Avon. There is apparently a very popular establishment "Henley Street Tearooms" located there, but the photo I see on their website is not a rural location such as is seen in this photo.

EDIT:

I found that there is a town Henley in Arden that is in the Avon District. Again, photos do not show such a forested ara there, but that isn't to say it couldn't be...

< Message edited by bradfordkay -- 1/12/2012 5:15:50 PM >

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RE: OT Help with WWII Air Corps Photos in England - 1/12/2012 5:13:31 PM   
AW1Steve


Posts: 14507
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: Mordor Illlinois
Status: offline 		there was a RAF Henley-on-Thames during WW2. It was an auxilary field of White Waltham Airfield (current name) where the ATA called home. There is a Avon street near the airport.

< Message edited by AW1Steve -- 1/12/2012 5:19:16 PM >

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RE: OT Help with WWII Air Corps Photos in England - 1/12/2012 5:16:38 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline 		I think the sign says Avon Tyres on the left.

http://www.avontyres.com/

RAF Henley on Thames

http://www.derelictplaces.co.uk/main/showthread.php?t=7817

< Message edited by obvert -- 1/12/2012 5:25:37 PM >

(in reply to AW1Steve)
Post #: 12
RE: OT Help with WWII Air Corps Photos in England - 1/12/2012 5:18:00 PM   
Vetamur

 

Posts: 191
Joined: 10/16/2006
Status: offline 		I agree the plane is mostly likely a Harvard..

The photo is tricky. Staybrite is a famous brand and signs would have been found anywhere. Little association of Henley and Avon on google or bing.. I am finding pictures of a canal associated with the words Henley and England.. but is that a canal or a road in the pic?

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Post #: 13
RE: OT Help with WWII Air Corps Photos in England - 1/12/2012 5:18:50 PM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8683
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline 		I know that there is a good deal of forest as you approach Henley on Thames (I cycled through there back in '91), so it sounds like Steve has hit upon the location. 

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RE: OT Help with WWII Air Corps Photos in England - 1/12/2012 5:21:12 PM   
Vetamur

 

Posts: 191
Joined: 10/16/2006
Status: offline 		Maybe this.. http://www.theaa.com/walks/henley-and-the-stratford-upon-avon-canal-421166

There is a recommended path to be walked..in Henley in Arden. It includes a path along the Stratford upon Avon canal. Im checking further.

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Post #: 15
RE: OT Help with WWII Air Corps Photos in England - 1/12/2012 5:21:19 PM   
AW1Steve


Posts: 14507
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: Mordor Illlinois
Status: offline 		I saw the Garage ad (its on Avon street) , and a satellite photo of the area shows it being right next to the airport.


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Post #: 16
RE: OT Help with WWII Air Corps Photos in England - 1/12/2012 5:23:11 PM   
Vetamur

 

Posts: 191
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Status: offline 		I lose! Steves got it! haha

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Post #: 17
RE: OT Help with WWII Air Corps Photos in England - 1/12/2012 5:24:17 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Well, as suspected, the forumites provide lots of good information and leads. Thanks, guys. Caption-writing is one of the little chores in publishing that is seldom noticed, but quite tedious. Getting good information like you guys are providing helps alot.

Her's another good photo. If it's large enough, you can see what appears to be a maple leaf emblem on the fuselage near the front of the canopy. Hazel Raines on right. I feel like a dummy not knowing for certain, but is this a Hurricane? Any guesses about location?




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"Rats set fire to Mr. Cooper’s store in Fort Valley. No damage done." Columbus (Ga) Enquirer-Sun, October 2, 1880.

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Post #: 18
RE: OT Help with WWII Air Corps Photos in England - 1/12/2012 5:27:45 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline 		Spitfire

Great old photos! Reminds me of my aunt who flew (and jumped out of) planes. Once did a solo race across the US in the 60's.

< Message edited by obvert -- 1/12/2012 5:28:37 PM >

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Post #: 19
RE: OT Help with WWII Air Corps Photos in England - 1/12/2012 5:30:14 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		"Clarendon" is written on the back of this photo. Based upon info on another photo, I think this may be Lady Astor's Manor. Any particular information about where Clarendon is located and whether it was proximitate to any WWII airfields that these ladies might have been posted to (or visiting)?




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RE: OT Help with WWII Air Corps Photos in England - 1/12/2012 5:33:10 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Hazel Raines with Lady Astor.

You guys know anything particularly interesting about Lady Astor? (Pssst, don't mention her to GreyJoy, as he's likely to come up with something outrageous.)




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RE: OT Help with WWII Air Corps Photos in England - 1/12/2012 5:35:01 PM   
dazoline II


Posts: 400
Joined: 11/5/2007
Status: offline 		Dorval Airport is in Montreal and was an air ferrying point.

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RE: OT Help with WWII Air Corps Photos in England - 1/12/2012 5:40:16 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Thanks again, gents, for any and all information.  Amazing what I'm picking up here.

Okay, here's a photo of Hazel Raines with what might be an RAF-auxilliary woman?  Can anybody tell me more about that woman, her likely service, and what that particular service did.  Also, where was this photo taken?  I'm sure somebody will either recognize the place or pull it up on Google Earth and see those decorative dogs.




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(in reply to dazoline II)
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RE: OT Help with WWII Air Corps Photos in England - 1/12/2012 5:41:54 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline 		It's Cliveden House in Berkshire. Near to RAF White Waltham in Berkshire, (to which RAF Henley on Thames was a Relief Landing Ground and an area where many spitfires were assembled and tested). Country home of Nancy Astor, first woman in Parliament and wife of Waldorf Astor.

http://gouk.about.com/od/hotelsandaccommodations/fr/Clivednhotel.htm

Strange connection. I taught one of the Astors for a few years here in London.

PS - Just saw you have pictures with Lady Astor. I still have a good relationship with her relative, probably a great-niece or something, who lives here in London. If you need some info I might be able to ask her if she knows any stories.




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< Message edited by obvert -- 1/12/2012 7:51:48 PM >

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RE: OT Help with WWII Air Corps Photos in England - 1/12/2012 6:01:35 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		This may be the last shot. The legend on the back of the photo reads "Crossing the Potomac." So I'm guessing this photo was taken in Virginia or Maryland. I just like the photo as it depicts the women on a lark. The woman in the dress looks quite lovely and shapely.




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"Rats set fire to Mr. Cooper’s store in Fort Valley. No damage done." Columbus (Ga) Enquirer-Sun, October 2, 1880.

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Post #: 25
RE: OT Help with WWII Air Corps Photos in England - 1/12/2012 6:23:58 PM   
Gunner98

 

Posts: 5508
Joined: 4/29/2005
From: The Great White North!
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Hazel Raines on the wing of what kind of aircraft? Based upon information on the back of a similar photo, I believe this was taken February 1942 at Dowal (Donal?) Aerodome, Montreal, Quebec.



Its a bit of a guess but I think it would be 'Dorval' which became Montreal's main international airport then was renamed Pierre Elliott Trudeau International Airport in 2004.

The quote from the Wiki page supports the guess:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montr%C3%A9al-Pierre_Elliott_Trudeau_International_Airport

The birth of Dorval Airport was in the 1940s. ... . Montréal-Dorval International Airport went into operation on September 1, 1941, as RCAF Station Lachine with three paved runways. By 1946, the airport was already hosting more than a quarter of a million passengers a year, growing to more than a million by the mid-1950s. It was primarily chosen as an airport because of good weather and few foggy days. During World War II thousands of Allied aircraft passed through Dorval on the way to England. At one time Dorval was the major transatlantic hub for commercial aviation and the busiest airport in Canada with airlines such as British Overseas Airways Corporation (B.O.A.C) landing at Dorval en route to New York City.
B

(in reply to Canoerebel)
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RE: OT Help with WWII Air Corps Photos in England - 1/12/2012 7:27:54 PM   
crsutton


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From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

This may be the last shot. The legend on the back of the photo reads "Crossing the Potomac." So I'm guessing this photo was taken in Virginia or Maryland. I just like the photo as it depicts the women on a lark. The woman in the dress looks quite lovely and shapely.





It is possible that the the person who wrote the caption was asleep back in high school history class and is just making reference to the famous Washington crossing (thus the pose) but got the Delaware mixed up with the Potomac..It happens. Which means the photo could have been taken anywhere-even in the UK.

I love the idea of the article, being a fan of the great women fliers of the 30s, 40s, and 50s-of which too many have been passing away lately. The were the rock stars of their generation.


< Message edited by crsutton -- 1/12/2012 7:29:31 PM >

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RE: OT Help with WWII Air Corps Photos in England - 1/12/2012 7:32:38 PM   
sprior


Posts: 8596
Joined: 6/18/2002
From: Portsmouth, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I believe Hazel Raines is at right. Place unknown. Clues: signs say "Avon", something that seems like "Henley", and an advertisement for "Staybrite - Stainless Steel Ideal for Industry & The Home." Any ideas where this was taken?





Avon tyres was a brand of tyres (tires) It could be Henley upon Thames in Oxfordshire

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Post #: 28
RE: OT Help with WWII Air Corps Photos in England - 1/12/2012 7:55:39 PM   
jcjordan

 

Posts: 1900
Joined: 6/27/2001
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I am editing a story about Hazel Raines, a woman who served in the ATA during World War II, ferrying American aircraft to England. As a woman pilot in the service, she was among the first of a new "breed."

We have a selection of photos from the family of various scenes taken in England (and perhaps Canada too) during the War. The information about the photos is sketchy at best, so I wondered if you gents might be able to offer additiional input that would allow us to write more complete, and therefore more interesting, captions.

I'm going to post a series of photos. I'm interested in any input, from anything you know abuot the place the photo was taken to what and who is in the photo.

This first photo is a group of ATA pilots, a male officer, and what seems to be Eleanor Roosevelt (tall woman under umbrella). Hazel Raines is second from left. What kind of aircraft is that?

Edited to Add: I have confirmed that is Eleanor Roosevelt.





Well the exhaust stacks & wide stance landing gear (just behind the left most woman) seem to indicate a Hurricane but the air scoop seems to be too far foward for a one.

The other pic you put up is a Spit maybe a MkV or a version shortly thereafter w/ the canopy the way it is.

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 29
RE: OT Help with WWII Air Corps Photos in England - 1/12/2012 7:57:55 PM   
AW1Steve


Posts: 14507
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: Mordor Illlinois
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

This may be the last shot. The legend on the back of the photo reads "Crossing the Potomac." So I'm guessing this photo was taken in Virginia or Maryland. I just like the photo as it depicts the women on a lark. The woman in the dress looks quite lovely and shapely.





It is possible that the the person who wrote the caption was asleep back in high school history class and is just making reference to the famous Washington crossing (thus the pose) but got the Delaware mixed up with the Potomac..It happens. Which means the photo could have been taken anywhere-even in the UK.

I love the idea of the article, being a fan of the great women fliers of the 30s, 40s, and 50s-of which too many have been passing away lately. The were the rock stars of their generation.



While I'm absolutely sure you are correct , and I completely agree with you , the smartass in me can't help but point out that Washington DID cross the Potmac frequently! He lived on it! Most goods and people arrived at Mount Vernon by boat , Georgetown was upstream and across frtom it (A Port and trading place---DC didn't exist yet!) and Alexandria (My 2nd Home!) was much easier to reach by boat and it WAS THE BIG city ,where Washington shopped , went to church , was born and drank (Gadsby's Tavern...still open today!).

This was brought to you on behalf of the Alexandria Virginia Tourist board!!!

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