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V2.0 The Good, Bad and Ugly

 
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V2.0 The Good, Bad and Ugly - 11/13/2002 10:46:02 PM   
EricLarsen

 

Posts: 458
Joined: 7/9/2002
From: Salinas, CA Raider Nation
Status: offline 		Well, version 2.o is now out and here's the quick skinny on it from my perspective.

The Good
In my current game of a modified scenario 19 I am finally able to see the A-20 plane losses. While it was definitely a different format than before it now works just fine at displaying all plane losses legibly.

The ship counters in the tf screens is really a nice player aid. I was very pleasantly surprised to see the counter in the create tf screen so I no longer have to anally count the ships as I create a task force to make sure I have the right number of ships.

The "standown button". While I was content to click, click, click my planes back to zero training it sure is nice to now only have to click once to make it happen. Kudos to the players who kept pestering the UV team into making this and to the UV team for listening and implementing the standown button.

Upping the plane upgrade from 100% to 125% (IJN) and 133% (Allies) so that the program now doesn't deplete the new plane replacement pool so quickly and allows for new planes to still be in the pool even after an air unit upgrade to cover losses from other similar plane air units.

The Bad
Subs can't attack barges and PT boats with torpedoes. As I played my current game I noticed how my subs would get more and more successful at making torpedo and gun attacks on barges. At first I attributed the increasing success to improved crew ratings over time, but as I conducted more and more successful attacks I discovered that it was the attrition of the barge units themselves that increased my success. Early on when the AI was sending out 10 barge tf's my subs just wouldn't bite on a gun attack, so torpedoes were the only way to get the job done because the sub commanders wouldn't face off in a gun battle against bad odds. As the barge tf's grew smaller I saw that my subs finally started making good gun attacks, rather than always relying on torpedoes. Not allowing subs to make torpedo attacks upon large barge tf's, or for that matter large PT boat tf's, means that subs just won't sink any stinking barges or PT boats. Or if they do have the folly to attack a large barge tf on the surface with guns chances are it's going to take damage in return. Shame on the player or players who whined this idiotic change into the game and shame on the UV team for not thinking this through completely before deciding to implement it. May your subs get shot to pieces by the mighty barge tf's!

The Ugly
The 40MB patch and 3+ hour download time. Glad I set it to download before I went to work.

The game is extremely S-L-U-G-G-I-S-H now when in the main selection screen for selecting mode of play. When I click on the load saved-game or select scenario buttons on this screen I now have to wait about 10 to 15 seconds or more to get to the next screen. Then when I click on a saved game to play it takes another full 10 to 15 seconds just to see the saved game light up so I can then click the next button. This used to be virtually instantaneous, I click and a second later the next screen pops up or the saved game lights up so I can take the next step. I usually have to bail out of the game every hour or two as the system seems to get more sluggish pulling up screens. After I shut down and start up my computer things go fast again (I've got an old 400MHZ clunker). Even after restarting my computer from scratch these screens are still sluggish and now that makes restarting take a little longer each time as I now have to cool my heels waiting for these screens to now come up sluggish. Even when I try escaping the start-up screens and videos just getting into the game seems to take longer as well. I sure wish there was an option to turn off the opening and closing videos and credits. While I sometimes enjoy the opening video and audio when I'm puttering around doing little things while the game is loading up for the first time, it gets real annoying real fast that I have to sit there escapting the things every time I have to reboot to get my game moving again. Please don't forget that not all of us have 2 gig screamers yet.
Eric Larsen
Post #: 1
Re: V2.0 The Good, Bad and Ugly - 11/13/2002 11:36:32 PM   
Von Rom


Posts: 1705
Joined: 5/12/2000
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by EricLarsen
[B]The game is extremely S-L-U-G-G-I-S-H now when in the main selection screen for selecting mode of play. When I click on the load saved-game or select scenario buttons on this screen I now have to wait about 10 to 15 seconds or more to get to the next screen. Then when I click on a saved game to play it takes another full 10 to 15 seconds just to see the saved game light up so I can then click the next button. This used to be virtually instantaneous, I click and a second later the next screen pops up or the saved game lights up so I can take the next step. I usually have to bail out of the game every hour or two as the system seems to get more sluggish pulling up screens. After I shut down and start up my computer things go fast again (I've got an old 400MHZ clunker). Even after restarting my computer from scratch these screens are still sluggish and now that makes restarting take a little longer each time as I now have to cool my heels waiting for these screens to now come up sluggish. Even when I try escaping the start-up screens and videos just getting into the game seems to take longer as well. I sure wish there was an option to turn off the opening and closing videos and credits. While I sometimes enjoy the opening video and audio when I'm puttering around doing little things while the game is loading up for the first time, it gets real annoying real fast that I have to sit there escapting the things every time I have to reboot to get my game moving again. Please don't forget that not all of us have 2 gig screamers yet.
Eric Larsen [/B][/QUOTE]

Eric: I'm currently playing UV on a PII 350 computer with 128MB of RAM, and I can play for hours at a time with NO sluggishness.

Before I installed v2.0, I deleted all my old saved games; so saving a game now is rather fast.

I defrag my computer at least twice a week, and I use a free memory utility called "Cacheman" that automatically manages my computer memory for playing games. Download it here:

http://downloads-zdnet.com.com/3000-2094-10018600.html

I also remove extra programs, such as anit-virus software, when I'm playing the game.

You can easily remove the opening credits and videos:

To remove opening credits: On the "start menu", go to the UV folder. You'll see two UV exe's: use the blue exe that says: "Uncommon Valor" (make a short-cut for your desk-top).

Don't use the blue exe that says: "Uncommon Valor Game Menu" (remove this short-cut if you have it on your desk-top).

To remove the videos: Simply go to:

C:\Matrix Games\Uncommon Valor\VIDEO

and either delete the contents, or make a new folder and call it "original video" and place all the video files into this new folder. Now the video will NOT play.

Cheers!

_____________________________


(in reply to EricLarsen)
Post #: 2
- 11/14/2002 2:30:16 AM   
XPav

 

Posts: 550
Joined: 7/10/2002
From: Northern California
Status: offline 		I'm sorry.

I have an AMD 1600 with 512megs of RAM.

The save/load menu is extremely sluggish. I just click on an empty slot and it chugs for a couple seconds.

Err, why?

There's no reason for this. I can understand turning off various CPU and memory sucking things for the latest whizbang 3d game, but should be, in comparison, a svelte 2d well behaving app.

For the most part, it is. The responsiveness when actually playing the game is just fine (probably because 2by3 load everything into memory). Pre 1.40, after the first load, everything was super zippy.

But I'm sorry, this PBEM security "we're not going to change this!!!!!" screws that up. Every PBEM game now requires the long load time.

I don't know the technical reasons behind the "security problem", but what I see on my end as the user is 2by3 & Matrix unwilling/unable to find the cause of the problem and as a result, making us poor users, especially heavy PBEM players deal with it.

That bugs me. Its a step backwards.

_____________________________

I love it when a plan comes together.

(in reply to EricLarsen)
Post #: 3
- 11/14/2002 4:00:22 AM   
angus

 

Posts: 103
Joined: 9/8/2002
From: Brussels
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by XPav
[B]I don't know the technical reasons behind the "security problem", but what I see on my end as the user is 2by3 & Matrix unwilling/unable to find the cause of the problem and as a result, making us poor users, especially heavy PBEM players deal with it.

That bugs me. Its a step backwards. [/B][/QUOTE]

You forgot to add YMMV at the end there. You think it's a step backwards. I think it's an improvement. A couple of seconds delay in starting up and saving makes no difference to me. I'd rather have that than spend twice as long faffing about with winzip to uncompress and compress files.

YMMV and apparently does but I wouldn't want the Matrix guys to think that everyone shared your opinion when at least one person does not.

Angus

(in reply to EricLarsen)
Post #: 4
Re: Re: V2.0 The Good, Bad and Ugly - 11/14/2002 4:33:49 AM   
EricLarsen

 

Posts: 458
Joined: 7/9/2002
From: Salinas, CA Raider Nation
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Von Rom[B]
Before I installed v2.0, I deleted all my old saved games; so saving a game now is rather fast.[/B]

Von Rom,
I did not delete my old saved game files because I still want to play some of them and look at some of the older saves of my games to see how the AI side looked. I should not have to delete the old saved games to have that function function the way it did before the patch!

I tried saving my game and it took 1 minute and 15 seconds to just get to the save game screen after hitting the button. I even timed it with my watch to make sure I had the right time and wasn't imagining it was longer than it actually was.

I defragged my hard drive just about a month ago, and then I just defragged it again today to see if it made a difference. It didn't, what a surprise.

I don't mess with rinky dink third party memory managers, not with running Greedy Gate's MS Windows 98SE. I also do not screw with the file structure of games or add in rinky dink third party modifications just to ensure I don't do something that screws up future upgrades or the current program.

While I know you're trying to be helpful, unfortunately none of your suggestions does anything to alleviate the problems. I created my own shortcut to go to the game's exe rather than use the default game screen pullup that was nothing but a waste of time.

I am rather really peeved that now it takes 45 stinking seconds to get the scenarios to pop up from the main game selection screen and it takes a further 40 seconds after I click on a saved game before the title highlights and I can then select it to play. After that the game works about the same as before. These actions used to be almost instantaneous, and even when my system would bog down after a few hours it still wouldn't take more than about 10 seconds to go to the next task!
Eric Larsen

(in reply to EricLarsen)
Post #: 5
- 11/14/2002 4:36:21 AM   
XPav

 

Posts: 550
Joined: 7/10/2002
From: Northern California
Status: offline 		The problem is that before, I could do this (as allies)

1) Unzip first PBEM game
2) Start UV
3) Watch replay
4) Alt-tab out of UV, unzip other PBEM game
5) Watch other replay
6) Do first turn & save
7) Do second turn & save
8) Quit UV
9) Compress each file with one click(right click, Winzip->Compress As Savexxx.zip).
10) reply to message, attach, send.

The time consuming portions of this process (apart from the playing of the game) were the start of UV and the loading of the first replay.

Now that time is doubled solely because UV has to be started twice.

The file compression file makes it harder for casual hex-editing and saves time for everyone when it comes to zipping files. This is a Good Thing, but I don't believe that has anything to do with the nebulous PBEM security hole/erroneous replay problem, which, from what I gather, are due to variables not being properly reinitialized when the second game is loaded.

So, to summarize:
File compression = good!
Forcing UV to restart = bad!

_____________________________

I love it when a plan comes together.

(in reply to EricLarsen)
Post #: 6
- 11/14/2002 4:52:40 AM   
Toro


Posts: 578
Joined: 4/9/2002
From: 16 miles southeast of Hell (Michigan, i.e.), US
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by angus
[B]

You forgot to add YMMV at the end there. You think it's a step backwards. I think it's an improvement. A couple of seconds delay in starting up and saving makes no difference to me. I'd rather have that than spend twice as long faffing about with winzip to uncompress and compress files.[/B][/QUOTE]

Angus: I think you're missing XPav's issue. His complaint on the couple of seconds delay in moving to/from the save screen is not the key issue. What the real concern is (and for me, too) that we now have to reload the durn game every time we want to move to a different PBEM game. For me, running FOUR games, this makes playing them a nightmare. The "two second" delay between save screen isn't any concern for me. The two-plus minute game load between PBEMs is a crying shame. I'm actually considering asking my playing mates to revert back to 1.4 so that playing the game isn't so much a task.

(in reply to EricLarsen)
Post #: 7
Delays - 11/14/2002 5:09:10 AM   
EricLarsen

 

Posts: 458
Joined: 7/9/2002
From: Salinas, CA Raider Nation
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Toro
[B]Angus: I think you're missing XPav's issue. His complaint on the couple of seconds delay in moving to/from the save screen is not the key issue. What the real concern is (and for me, too) that we now have to reload the durn game every time we want to move to a different PBEM game. For me, running FOUR games, this makes playing them a nightmare. The "two second" delay between save screen isn't any concern for me. The two-plus minute game load between PBEMs is a crying shame. I'm actually considering asking my playing mates to revert back to 1.4 so that playing the game isn't so much a task. [/B]

Toro,
Geez, only a couple of seconds to pull up a saved game and you're complaining???:p I now have to wait 1 minute and 15 seconds to save a game, and that's just saving games against the AI and not PBEM. I have noticed that loading the game is slower now, even with the escape key and that I have to wait 45 seconds to pull up a saved game once I click on the button to go to the saved games and it takes me a further 40 seconds just to get the selected saved game to highlight so I can tell the program to load it. I'm almost tempted to dumb down my game to 1.40, but considering the 3+ hour download time I don't want to have to download it again anytime soon.
Eric Larsen

(in reply to EricLarsen)
Post #: 8
- 11/14/2002 5:21:12 AM   
Toro


Posts: 578
Joined: 4/9/2002
From: 16 miles southeast of Hell (Michigan, i.e.), US
Status: offline 		No no no, Eric... read the small print. I said the two-second wait ISN'T an issue with me. ;)
Now, the reload of the game is... :eek:

(The bad thing is, I suspected this was going to happen when I saw David's list of forthcoming fixes a couple weeks back. But, for once, I kept my mouth shut... then... :D ).

(in reply to EricLarsen)
Post #: 9
- 11/15/2002 12:49:41 AM   
Mike Wood


Posts: 2095
Joined: 3/29/2000
From: Oakland, California
Status: offline 		Hello...

We stopped barge and PT attacks from torpedoes because the draft of these is too shallow for a torpedo to hit. We are working on the sluggish load/save routines and hope to have them fixed in the next patch. We are also working on the PBEM issues and hope to have them resolved with the next patch, as well.

Patience...

Michael Wood

(in reply to EricLarsen)
Post #: 10
- 11/15/2002 1:01:53 AM   
Toro


Posts: 578
Joined: 4/9/2002
From: 16 miles southeast of Hell (Michigan, i.e.), US
Status: offline 		Mike,

Despite my loudness and such (it's sooo easy to be loud when I can type it rather than face you -- you're probably 10 ft tall and would pound me or something... :D ), I really think you guys are running the best software company on the market, and that's really not saying enough. I'm utterly impressed with your commitment and response. Even if you can't fix the reload issue, I very much appreciate your addressing it. I may go bald sooner (ie, pulling out my hair), or become more literate (a la Mogami and touching up on my Hamlet), but I appreciate your efforts.

(in reply to EricLarsen)
Post #: 11
- 11/15/2002 2:00:52 AM   
David Heath


Posts: 3274
Joined: 3/29/2000
From: Staten Island NY
Status: offline 		Hello Guys

All of the programmers and myself had a conference call and went over in details the problems or items we are not happy with. After a few hours I feel we got a good game plan and we should address a lot of the issues as far as PBEM Security, Game Speed, Restarting the Game, the replay and Naval Combat and a few other points.

I am NOT going into details yet and these are not promises but we should be able to address everything and we are putting a lot of effort behind it.

David

(in reply to EricLarsen)
Post #: 12
- 11/15/2002 2:50:23 AM   
Yamamoto

 

Posts: 743
Joined: 11/21/2001
From: Miami, Fl. U.S.A.
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by David Heath
[B]After a few hours I feel we got a good game plan and we should be address a lot of the issues as far as PBEM Security, Game Speed, Restarting the Game, the replay and Naval Combat and a few other points.
[/B][/QUOTE]

My ideal 2.01 version

PBEM security: no issues that I am aware of. Encrypting the save game files should take care of it.

Game speed: back at 1.40 levels would be great.

Restarting the game: get rid of it.

replay: since I only play Japanese this is a non-issue for me. There is always the text report which is 100% accurate.

Naval Combat: Not sure what you guys are looking at for this one. I once suggested a pre-combat torpedo phase for nighttime battles. I still think that would be niceto have.


Yamamoto

(in reply to EricLarsen)
Post #: 13
- 11/15/2002 3:00:06 AM   
Toro


Posts: 578
Joined: 4/9/2002
From: 16 miles southeast of Hell (Michigan, i.e.), US
Status: offline 		My nice to have in 2.01:

1. stop the reload thingee

2. figure out why 2.0 locks up during orders phases (odd one, that)

3. dedicate all further activity to WitP :D

Oh, if you want to give me a super bomb to eliminate them pesky PT boats, I'd go for that...

(in reply to EricLarsen)
Post #: 14
Wow - 11/15/2002 8:28:46 AM   
jlederer

 

Posts: 7
Joined: 11/14/2002
Status: offline 		Wow, 2.0 is barely out and you guys are already talking about the next patch. That's service! I'm impressed. Thanks!

(in reply to EricLarsen)
Post #: 15
- 11/15/2002 7:28:58 PM   
strollen

 

Posts: 159
Joined: 5/18/2002
Status: offline 		Eric

I feel your pain, I was amazed that even right after upgrading my computer from 450 MHz to 2.4 G 2.0 game became much more sluggish

After I deleted/moved all my old 1.4 files (I had 30+ slots used).
Tthe time after I clicked on end of turn until the load/save screen display went from 55-60 secs to less than 2 secs.

I agree it is not a great solution but it definitely works.
I hope they updated the release notes so that future users can benefit from our troubles. hint hint.


Restarting is pain but not having to open winzip is a definite plus.

(in reply to EricLarsen)
Post #: 16
That sounds logical - 11/15/2002 11:02:47 PM   
EricLarsen

 

Posts: 458
Joined: 7/9/2002
From: Salinas, CA Raider Nation
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mike Wood
[B]We stopped barge and PT attacks from torpedoes because the draft of these is too shallow for a torpedo to hit. We are working on the sluggish load/save routines and hope to have them fixed in the next patch. We are also working on the PBEM issues and hope to have them resolved with the next patch, as well.

Patience...

Michael Wood [/B]

Mike,
Explained that way the change to stop torpedo attacks sounds quite logical and was something I hadn't considered. You might want to add some of these logical reasons to the update document to back up why you made some change that may bewilder us players as to why. That way you could cut down on the flak with preemptive information strikes!

Chances are I'll be finished finally with my campaign game before the next patch comes out so I'll be able to delete my old saves and then hopefully I won't have to wait 1 minute and 15 seconds each and everytime I click the saved game button to get the saved game screen, not to mention the extremely long waits on the main game menu and selecting a saved game to play.

Could you possibly respond to my "Dumb AI Base Defense" post as I'd like to know by what logical reason ground unit bombardments reveals the whole enemy dispositions and strengths and why the AI is made to make these pointless and friutless attacks in the first place? I think if you cut out the code that makes the AI do dumb bombardment attacks you'd improve the AI Base Defense a whole lot! I mean I'll gladly trade 10 men for complete info on enemy strength at a base I'm invading before launching a ground attack myself, and let the AI do the disservice to itself. Not to mention that after a few turns the AI starts losing more men to its own ground bombardment than I do.
Thanks,

Eric Larsen

(in reply to EricLarsen)
Post #: 17
Re: That sounds logical - 11/15/2002 11:35:01 PM   
Mike Wood


Posts: 2095
Joined: 3/29/2000
From: Oakland, California
Status: offline 		Hello...

I will look at it.

Thanks...

Micahel Wood
___________________________________________________

[QUOTE]Originally posted by EricLarsen
[B]...Could you possibly respond to my "Dumb AI Base Defense" post...
Eric Larsen [/B][/QUOTE]

(in reply to EricLarsen)
Post #: 18
- 11/19/2002 4:24:46 AM   
Basement Command

 

Posts: 64
Joined: 11/1/2001
From: Boise, ID
Status: offline 		Whatever you change for the next patch, pleeeez do not undo whatever fixed the carrier battle lock-up problem. :eek:

_____________________________

The only skills I have the patience to learn are those that have no practical application in real life.

(in reply to EricLarsen)
Post #: 19
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