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RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR)

 
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RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 1/22/2012 6:06:23 PM   
Red Prince


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Joined: 4/8/2011
From: Bangor, Maine, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur

Looking at the Chisinau unit capable to move: I would suggest a move towards Nikolajev, since that is the best way that unit might survive another impulse (if reinforced by units from Odessa, he can withdraw further into the Crimea - read Sevastopol - or along the Dnjepr river next impulse).

Unfortunately, the only unit that can leave Odessa is the 1-4 INF Division. Sevastapol has a 5-1 GARR in it, and that should be enough for the time being, I think.

quote:

I indeed ment the Oil in Stalingrad and Moscow. It looks nice to have oil in hero cities, however: hero cities should be occupied by non oil depending units. Or are you planning on sacrificing ARM or MECH in those cities? If so: that's not a smart move. The USSR can come back out of the Caucasus and Siberia, if the expensive HQ's, ARM, MECH and the airforce will survive. Places like Stalingrad and Moscow haven't got any defensive value at all, apart from being fought over in a few impulses, slowing down the German advance...

Three points that might answer your questions:

1. When I initially placed the Oil in Moscow, there was no way for me to know how unprepared the USSR would be for Barbarossa, so I won't make an excuse for that, nor will I think of it as an error in judgement.

2. When I chose Stalingrad, I honestly believed it was far enough back from the front to be a good place to store Oil Points. That was probably a wrong thought. The good news is that I can use these for Production and/or reorganizing units before the Germans get there, while other Oil Resources can be stored farthur away from the battle.

3. Not that it is an enormous bonus, but with Blitz Bonus optional rules, both Moscow and Stalingrad reduce the Die Roll by -1 because they each have more than one factory in them. It isn't much, but it's something.

One way or another, this problem should be fixable before the Oil Points are at risk of being captured. The ones I placed in Leningrad and Sevastapol are for fleet reorganization, if that becomes an issue/possibility, and for LND and/or FTR reorganization. Both of these cities have devensive bonuses that make it worthwhile to keep air units around (in my opinion) to help defend against the best attack the Germans can make on them.

< Message edited by Red Prince -- 1/22/2012 6:11:20 PM >


_____________________________

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it!
-Lazarus Long, RAH

(in reply to Centuur)
Post #: 1441
RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 1/22/2012 6:09:27 PM   
Red Prince


Posts: 3686
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur

On US entry, I agree on other players advise that if the percentage is 40% or better for both nations, you should attempt both DOW's in the same DoW impulse with the USA. Sure, if both rolls aren't succesfull, it isn't nice. If one succeeds, that increases the opportunity of the other one for the future, thus compensating the loss of the chits. And imagine the houses of Parliament in the USA being enraged by the Axis betrayal and both rolls succeed. Well isn't that nice...

2 votes so far in favor of a DOW next chance by the USA.

However, it can only DOW either Germany and/or Italy or Japan each impulse. It cannot DOW both during the same impulse.
-----
Edit: Edited for clarity.

< Message edited by Red Prince -- 1/22/2012 6:16:04 PM >


_____________________________

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it!
-Lazarus Long, RAH

(in reply to Centuur)
Post #: 1442
RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 1/22/2012 6:15:00 PM   
Red Prince


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From: Bangor, Maine, USA
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I should also note that if a DOW is made on both Germany and Italy in the same impulse, only one DOW roll is made . . . but . . . if it fails, the Entry and Tension Pools suffer penalties as if it were 2 DOWs . . . that means -2 Entry chits and -2 Tension chits. Therefore, if the USA is going to try to play this game, it needs to select only one of these nations to DOW, or risk losing way too much Tension.

_____________________________

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it!
-Lazarus Long, RAH

(in reply to Red Prince)
Post #: 1443
RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 1/22/2012 7:00:58 PM   
Centuur


Posts: 8802
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From: Hoorn (NED).
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur

On US entry, I agree on other players advise that if the percentage is 40% or better for both nations, you should attempt both DOW's in the same DoW impulse with the USA. Sure, if both rolls aren't succesfull, it isn't nice. If one succeeds, that increases the opportunity of the other one for the future, thus compensating the loss of the chits. And imagine the houses of Parliament in the USA being enraged by the Axis betrayal and both rolls succeed. Well isn't that nice...

2 votes so far in favor of a DOW next chance by the USA.

However, it can only DOW either Germany and/or Italy or Japan each impulse. It cannot DOW both during the same impulse.
-----
Edit: Edited for clarity.


Well that is done something we did wrong in the past. Rules, rules...


_____________________________

Peter

(in reply to Red Prince)
Post #: 1444
RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 1/22/2012 7:32:54 PM   
Red Prince


Posts: 3686
Joined: 4/8/2011
From: Bangor, Maine, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur


quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur

On US entry, I agree on other players advise that if the percentage is 40% or better for both nations, you should attempt both DOW's in the same DoW impulse with the USA. Sure, if both rolls aren't succesfull, it isn't nice. If one succeeds, that increases the opportunity of the other one for the future, thus compensating the loss of the chits. And imagine the houses of Parliament in the USA being enraged by the Axis betrayal and both rolls succeed. Well isn't that nice...

2 votes so far in favor of a DOW next chance by the USA.

However, it can only DOW either Germany and/or Italy or Japan each impulse. It cannot DOW both during the same impulse.
-----
Edit: Edited for clarity.


Well that is done something we did wrong in the past. Rules, rules...

Don't worry about it. We got mixed up on this one, too, and had to get a clarification from Harry before we ended up getting it all working as the rules intend.

_____________________________

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it!
-Lazarus Long, RAH

(in reply to Centuur)
Post #: 1445
RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 1/22/2012 7:51:09 PM   
Orm


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

I should also note that if a DOW is made on both Germany and Italy in the same impulse, only one DOW roll is made . . . but . . . if it fails, the Entry and Tension Pools suffer penalties as if it were 2 DOWs . . . that means -2 Entry chits and -2 Tension chits. Therefore, if the USA is going to try to play this game, it needs to select only one of these nations to DOW, or risk losing way too much Tension.

No, it is the opposite. If the DOW succeeds is is counted as two declarations of war for US entry purposes. If it fails it is only counted as one attempt.

_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

(in reply to Red Prince)
Post #: 1446
RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 1/22/2012 8:04:06 PM   
Red Prince


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm


quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

I should also note that if a DOW is made on both Germany and Italy in the same impulse, only one DOW roll is made . . . but . . . if it fails, the Entry and Tension Pools suffer penalties as if it were 2 DOWs . . . that means -2 Entry chits and -2 Tension chits. Therefore, if the USA is going to try to play this game, it needs to select only one of these nations to DOW, or risk losing way too much Tension.

No, it is the opposite. If the DOW succeeds is is counted as two declarations of war for US entry purposes. If it fails it is only counted as one attempt.

Oops. See? I still get confused. Thanks, Orm.

On a completely different subject, I'm working on getting reinforcements where they are needed for the CW. I've got an HQ, 2 INF and an INF Division headed off to Murmansk and probably 1 of the INF in Archangel. I can also get an INF into either Persia or Aden, but I'll need a Combined Action next impulse to take care of Murmansk, and a Land or Combined after that to take care of this. I could get one into both, but I would rather send my Spanish TRS back toward territory where it can actually enter ports on a regular basis . . . the Atlantic (possibly with a cargo to put into Spanish Santa Cruz).

I can get an INF to either Colombo or Telok Betong, but not to both before one of them is captured. Colombo is a Victory City, but Telok Betong would keep a presence in the NEI and save 2 Oil Points. What do you think?
-----
Edit: Corrected some options. Really the only one I need some advice on is the last . . . Colombo or Telok Betong?

< Message edited by Red Prince -- 1/22/2012 8:08:08 PM >


_____________________________

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it!
-Lazarus Long, RAH

(in reply to Orm)
Post #: 1447
RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 1/22/2012 8:07:49 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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In my opinion, the USSR needs to:
- save as many units as possible,
- slow down the German advance, and
- form up a defensive line.

So, in the south, I would move as follows:

Save the 4-3 and 1-4. I was tempted to move the 4-3 towards Odessa as you indicated, since the river line prevents it from being attacked except from 1/2 a hex. But I have had disaster strike too many times to trust that the units will survive when next to the Germans. These units will be needed on Dnieper.

The 2-5 must be sacrificed to slow down the German advance. Otherwise a lot of German units will moving much closer to Kiev.

Moving the mountain unit and the 2-3 to the same hex gives them a little bit extra strength. A corp has to remain in Cernauti to ZOC the Germans. The div can take the hit if only 1 unit is lost in the German attack. The reason I like this placement instead of what you showed in black for these units is that fewer Germans can attack the hex if the weather stays as Rain or Blizzard. Under those weather conditions, the Germans have only the units in Rumania plus the 3-stack under the 6-5 to attack the 7 Russian units in and about Bessarabia. I count that as 13 units since von Leeb won't be able to make it into the front line. There will be 6, maybe 8, German units that can wipe out the Cav but they won't be able to advance, regardless of the weather. I am betting that some of the Russian units will still be on the map around the Dniester to hinder the Geramn advance on the southern portion of the Dnieper.

The other moves I show here are just to indicate that you need to start positioning units along the Dnieper defensive line. Exactly what goes where depends on a lot of things. You should not be concerned with building up Hero Cities as a primary goal. Instead, you want the frontline to be contiguous. Having stray Germans run up next to your frontline, have the turn end and then the Germans start the next turn would let the Germans breach the river line without having to make any attacks. You can always rail units into the Hero Cities, or bring in reinforcements there. You don't have those capabilities with other hexes along the front line.





Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Red Prince)
Post #: 1448
RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 1/22/2012 8:11:46 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm


quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

I should also note that if a DOW is made on both Germany and Italy in the same impulse, only one DOW roll is made . . . but . . . if it fails, the Entry and Tension Pools suffer penalties as if it were 2 DOWs . . . that means -2 Entry chits and -2 Tension chits. Therefore, if the USA is going to try to play this game, it needs to select only one of these nations to DOW, or risk losing way too much Tension.

No, it is the opposite. If the DOW succeeds is is counted as two declarations of war for US entry purposes. If it fails it is only counted as one attempt.

Oops. See? I still get confused. Thanks, Orm.

On a completely different subject, I'm working on getting reinforcements where they are needed for the CW. I've got an HQ, 2 INF and an INF Division headed off to Murmansk and probably 1 of the INF in Archangel. I can also get an INF into either Persia or Aden, but I'll need a Combined Action next impulse to take care of Murmansk, and a Land or Combined after that to take care of this. I could get one into both, but I would rather send my Spanish TRS back toward territory where it can actually enter ports on a regular basis . . . the Atlantic (possibly with a cargo to put into Spanish Santa Cruz).

I can get an INF to either Colombo or Telok Betong, but not to both before one of them is captured. Colombo is a Victory City, but Telok Betong would keep a presence in the NEI and save 2 Oil Points. What do you think?
-----
Edit: Corrected some options. Really the only one I need some advice on is the last . . . Colombo or Telok Betong?

That's too many units to Murmansk. Look at what the Finns have available and then what your goals are for the CW units. I think all you want to do is capture Petsamo and the resource and then hold onto Murmansk. This is not the place to commit a lot of CW units. The HQ is essential, and maybe another corps. But no more than that. If the Axis send enough units north to seriously attack the 2 CW units, you can think about sending another unit or 2. But I wouldn't. Let the Germans attack in those far reaches of the north. That is much better than having them mucking about in the rest of Russia.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Red Prince)
Post #: 1449
RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 1/22/2012 8:15:37 PM   
Red Prince


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From: Bangor, Maine, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

In my opinion, the USSR needs to:
- save as many units as possible,
- slow down the German advance, and
- form up a defensive line.

So, in the south, I would move as follows:

Save the 4-3 and 1-4. I was tempted to move the 4-3 towards Odessa as you indicated, since the river line prevents it from being attacked except from 1/2 a hex. But I have had disaster strike too many times to trust that the units will survive when next to the Germans. These units will be needed on Dnieper.

The 2-5 must be sacrificed to slow down the German advance. Otherwise a lot of German units will moving much closer to Kiev.

Moving the mountain unit and the 2-3 to the same hex gives them a little bit extra strength. A corp has to remain in Cernauti to ZOC the Germans. The div can take the hit if only 1 unit is lost in the German attack. The reason I like this placement instead of what you showed in black for these units is that fewer Germans can attack the hex if the weather stays as Rain or Blizzard. Under those weather conditions, the Germans have only the units in Rumania plus the 3-stack under the 6-5 to attack the 7 Russian units in and about Bessarabia. I count that as 13 units since von Leeb won't be able to make it into the front line. There will be 6, maybe 8, German units that can wipe out the Cav but they won't be able to advance, regardless of the weather. I am betting that some of the Russian units will still be on the map around the Dniester to hinder the Geramn advance on the southern portion of the Dnieper.

The other moves I show here are just to indicate that you need to start positioning units along the Dnieper defensive line. Exactly what goes where depends on a lot of things. You should not be concerned with building up Hero Cities as a primary goal. Instead, you want the frontline to be contiguous. Having stray Germans run up next to your frontline, have the turn end and then the Germans start the next turn would let the Germans breach the river line without having to make any attacks. You can always rail units into the Hero Cities, or bring in reinforcements there. You don't have those capabilities with other hexes along the front line.





Thanks, Steve, particularly for the Dnieper line advice. I had absolutely no idea what to do with these guys. If I can hold the Germans back long enough, there are some very useful Soviet units that can help in this region coming soon:




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it!
-Lazarus Long, RAH

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 1450
RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 1/22/2012 8:21:57 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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In the northern front, I propose similar actions I in the south.

Rail a 4-1 to Vitebsk. That is as good a place as any for it to die. I would have liked to have sent it to Minsk but stacking limits prevent that.

I sent the 4-4 to Minsk and the 3-5 to the forest. The way I look at their position is to marked off where their ZOCs extend. That is the USSR front line i my mind's eye, since it marks the limit of the Germans' advance. You could swap these two units destinations -I don't think it matters a lot.

For the rest of the units I am spreading them out and forming a front line. You need to decide where you want these units to make a stand (you already did that earlier). Which in the series of front lines you choose to hold, and for how long depends on bunches of stuff. But for now, begin positioning your units. Should the Germans ground strike a unit that is already in position, it is unpleasant but not fatal. If they ground strike units that are out of position, that can be fatal. And move the air force back as far as possible and still have them capable of maybe doing something useful. I would pull the fighters back so they are all in alone in forest hexes behind the front line. Even then I would hesitate to use them, since doing so means they will almost certainly be overrun and lost later in the turn (I am referring to the summer turns).




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 1451
RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 1/22/2012 8:27:11 PM   
Red Prince


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From: Bangor, Maine, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets


quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm


quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

I should also note that if a DOW is made on both Germany and Italy in the same impulse, only one DOW roll is made . . . but . . . if it fails, the Entry and Tension Pools suffer penalties as if it were 2 DOWs . . . that means -2 Entry chits and -2 Tension chits. Therefore, if the USA is going to try to play this game, it needs to select only one of these nations to DOW, or risk losing way too much Tension.

No, it is the opposite. If the DOW succeeds is is counted as two declarations of war for US entry purposes. If it fails it is only counted as one attempt.

Oops. See? I still get confused. Thanks, Orm.

On a completely different subject, I'm working on getting reinforcements where they are needed for the CW. I've got an HQ, 2 INF and an INF Division headed off to Murmansk and probably 1 of the INF in Archangel. I can also get an INF into either Persia or Aden, but I'll need a Combined Action next impulse to take care of Murmansk, and a Land or Combined after that to take care of this. I could get one into both, but I would rather send my Spanish TRS back toward territory where it can actually enter ports on a regular basis . . . the Atlantic (possibly with a cargo to put into Spanish Santa Cruz).

I can get an INF to either Colombo or Telok Betong, but not to both before one of them is captured. Colombo is a Victory City, but Telok Betong would keep a presence in the NEI and save 2 Oil Points. What do you think?
-----
Edit: Corrected some options. Really the only one I need some advice on is the last . . . Colombo or Telok Betong?

That's too many units to Murmansk. Look at what the Finns have available and then what your goals are for the CW units. I think all you want to do is capture Petsamo and the resource and then hold onto Murmansk. This is not the place to commit a lot of CW units. The HQ is essential, and maybe another corps. But no more than that. If the Axis send enough units north to seriously attack the 2 CW units, you can think about sending another unit or 2. But I wouldn't. Let the Germans attack in those far reaches of the north. That is much better than having them mucking about in the rest of Russia.

Actually, the intent here was to enter Murmansk, take Petsamo, and then head down the Soviet rail line and on into Finland . . . the units are HQ-I Alexander, a 7-3 white print, a 6-4 INF, and the Division. If you remember the Barbarossa AAR Orm and I ran, I like to use the Finns to out-flank the Soviets at Leningrad in order to threaten cities like Vologda and Yaroslav . . .

This move would work better in Snow, since I could then easily go down the Arctic Highway, but 20 factors of CW troops headed for Finland proper, plus a LND or another INF or even an ARM (made possible by Alexander's 4 reorg points), might be enough to convince the Finnish troops to stay put. They only have 30 factors of their own on the map at this point. They probably can't defend and send Mannerheim deep into Russia at the same time.

Maybe it's the wrong thing to do, but this was my reasoning, anyway. It can still be undone, since I'm still figuring out CW naval moves.

_____________________________

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it!
-Lazarus Long, RAH

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 1452
RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 1/22/2012 8:48:06 PM   
Red Prince


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I did change the plan for Murmansk, because I forgot that the TRS used to get the HQ and an INF there will count as part of the FTC limits.

_____________________________

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it!
-Lazarus Long, RAH

(in reply to Red Prince)
Post #: 1453
RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 1/22/2012 8:48:35 PM   
paulderynck


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

quote:

USSR DOW Italy; USE-
CW DOW Yemen; USE-
CW adds Interned Units
France DOW Yemen; USE-
USSR DOW Yemen; USE-

These are the DOWs I'm making this impulse. The 2 that are in bold I consider to be legitimate DOWs based on potential threats. The other 2 are "gamey". The reason I'm telling you this now, before rolling for the US Entry, is that the "expected" number of chits removed here will be 5.4, but I am going to rig it so that all 7 chits get removed. However, which chits are removed I am going to leave to random die rolls. I am doing this to counter the "gamey" DOW of China by Germany. If this were a FTF game, this series of DOWs would again tell the Axis that Entry is too high, and that they would be wise to boost it again.

This isn't a FTF game. I made a mistake by including that single "gamey" DOW by Germany. This is the best I can do to resolve that matter and to move on, after which I will not make any more "gamey" DOWs by either side. Yes, the overall effect wll be a slight increase in the Ge/It Entry Pool of 1-2 chits. But my intention was not to create a cycle of pointless DOWs. I'm going to pretend everyone is stupid on both sides, and that they don't realize that either that DOW or these DOWs are manipulations of the US Entry levels. After that point, I hope you will all agree that Pandora's box is as near closed as can be, and that we can move on without any more talk of "gamey" play.
-----
First, though, I want all of you loyal followers of this AAR to know where my frustration about this discussion came from: I stated on a number of occassions that I didn't want Germany to go to war until there was Fine weather to use . . . and at the very minimum, there had to be fine weather in the South. I've been planning a combined DOW on the USSR by Japan and Germany for several turns, now, and I began positioning my units on both fronts to be ready for a M/J '41 start to the festivities. That's why I gave everyone about 36 hours to weigh in on their thoughts about a Chinese Surrender, because it could really screw with the war preparations.

The overall feeling I got from the forum members who posted, though, was that China should fight on (by a vote of 4-2), and that Germany should DOW the USSR at the first reasonable moment, even if that meant Snow in the Arctic. I've said before, and I'll say again now, that I want you all to feel like you are contributing to the game, and that many decisions would be based on the views of the forum. So, instead of the M/J '41 Barbarossa that I would have preferred, I took advantage of a good enough weather roll to start the party early.

Given the fact that Japan was a turn short of being fully prepared to go to war, and that Germany was still slightly out of position, I think it was an exciting impulse on both fronts, with crushing victories in Bessarabia, and extraordinary gains by Japan with less than optimal forces. Frankly, I think I adapted my strategic plans extremely well to fit the desires of the forum as a whole.

Now, I'll explain my frustration: I truly believe that under the circumstances, I played the impulse well, and there was a lot that might have been discussed concerning the invasion choices and the Soviet defenses. Instead, all I heard about was that I used a "gamey" tactic to manipulate US Entry. With all of the enthusiasm over the last several days concerning the upcoming BIG EVENT, I was disappointed by this. I altered my plans to fit your suggestions, and I still got the job done. Frankly, everyone likes a pat on the back now and then. This felt like a slap in the face instead, and I was not expecting it at all.

So, I hope my solution will allow us all to put this behind us and refocus on the actual game being played. I will continue to adapt my strategies based on suggestions from the forum (unless they are physically impossible), and I will continue to ask for advice and opinions. I really don't want this game to deteriorate into an exchange of DOWs that mean nothing from a military standpoint. I'd rather hear opinions on what to do with the forces I have (because we all know I need help where defenses are concerned) than to hear opinions on which "gamey" DOW I need to make next.

Thank you for letting me explain my feelings on this, and I hope you'll agree this round of "gamey" (and pre-determined US Entry altering) DOWs is a suitable solution.

-Aaron
-----
Edit: My original chit calculations were incorrect.

This is fine. I apologise for my role in the whole mess.

_____________________________

Paul

(in reply to Red Prince)
Post #: 1454
RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 1/22/2012 9:00:07 PM   
Centuur


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I agree on the USSR moves Steve is suggesting.

On the CW going into Murmansk/Finland: I think I would be content to capture Petsamo and simply become a threat to the Finns. If they don't move units at the end of the railline, I would advance. I wouldn't put any CW forces in Archangel, since it isn't threathened at this moment.

Alexander isn't doing anything usefull in the UK at this moment, so he should go to Karelia, with the forces you've mentioned. However, beware of the German Luftwaffe appearing (however: that's also nice news for the Comrades, since that means the Germans won't ground strike USSR units...


_____________________________

Peter

(in reply to Red Prince)
Post #: 1455
RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 1/22/2012 9:15:39 PM   
Red Prince


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From: Bangor, Maine, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck


quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

quote:

USSR DOW Italy; USE-
CW DOW Yemen; USE-
CW adds Interned Units
France DOW Yemen; USE-
USSR DOW Yemen; USE-

These are the DOWs I'm making this impulse, etc.

Thank you for letting me explain my feelings on this, and I hope you'll agree this round of "gamey" (and pre-determined US Entry altering) DOWs is a suitable solution.

-Aaron
-----
Edit: My original chit calculations were incorrect.

This is fine. I apologise for my role in the whole mess.

Thank you, Paul. I do appreciate it.
-----
In other news, while I've been trying to figure out what to ship where (Alexander and his white print 7-3 are still going to Murmansk), I've also been pulling a bunch of convoys back into ports heading mostly toward the Atlantic (with a few sent to Adelaide). With the NEI and Malaya resources and Oil in jeopardy and/or cut off, it's time to start thinking about replacing those convoys in the North Atlantic with a less vulnerable pipeline using the Canadian Coast and the Denmark Strait. I also pulled 5 CP that were no longer needed out of Faeroes Gap and sent them to Scapa Flow, waiting to be deployed to the Arctic Ocean and Norwegian Sea. One of them will get the Petsamo RP to Murmansk, and the other 4 can be used along with American convoys to ship 2 more RP to Archangel (when the US enters the war).

_____________________________

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it!
-Lazarus Long, RAH

(in reply to paulderynck)
Post #: 1456
RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 1/22/2012 9:36:17 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck


quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

quote:

USSR DOW Italy; USE-
CW DOW Yemen; USE-
CW adds Interned Units
France DOW Yemen; USE-
USSR DOW Yemen; USE-

These are the DOWs I'm making this impulse, etc.

Thank you for letting me explain my feelings on this, and I hope you'll agree this round of "gamey" (and pre-determined US Entry altering) DOWs is a suitable solution.

-Aaron
-----
Edit: My original chit calculations were incorrect.

This is fine. I apologise for my role in the whole mess.

Thank you, Paul. I do appreciate it.
-----
In other news, while I've been trying to figure out what to ship where (Alexander and his white print 7-3 are still going to Murmansk), I've also been pulling a bunch of convoys back into ports heading mostly toward the Atlantic (with a few sent to Adelaide). With the NEI and Malaya resources and Oil in jeopardy and/or cut off, it's time to start thinking about replacing those convoys in the North Atlantic with a less vulnerable pipeline using the Canadian Coast and the Denmark Strait. I also pulled 5 CP that were no longer needed out of Faeroes Gap and sent them to Scapa Flow, waiting to be deployed to the Arctic Ocean and Norwegian Sea. One of them will get the Petsamo RP to Murmansk, and the other 4 can be used along with American convoys to ship 2 more RP to Archangel (when the US enters the war).

What are the Commonwealth priorities for their land units?

Defend the UK?
Offensive operations in Finland?
West Africa invasion?
East Africa roll up of the Italians?
Invade Iraq?
Hold Aden?
Retake Egypt?
Throw the Japanese out of India/Burma/Ceylon?
Defend Singapore?
Retake the NEI oil?
Defend islands in the Pacific?
Defend New Zealand & Australia?

These are far flung objectives. After choosing what to do, units need to be assign for each task - especially transports for delivering the units to their destinations and convoys et al for keeping them in supply.

I get the feeling that Murmansk is getting a lot of resources when it shouldn't necessarily. Perhaps that is the best use of the best CW INF (the 7-3), but you need to figure out what needs to go where all around the globe rather than simply take the best units available and commit them to the bright shining point of current interest.

Objectives should be developed for the Commonwealth for 1941. Those should drive the decisions throughout the year.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Red Prince)
Post #: 1457
RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 1/22/2012 10:07:10 PM   
Red Prince


Posts: 3686
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From: Bangor, Maine, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

What are the Commonwealth priorities for their land units?

Defend the UK?
Offensive operations in Finland?

West Africa invasion?
East Africa roll up of the Italians?
Invade Iraq?
Hold Aden?
Retake Egypt?
Throw the Japanese out of India/Burma/Ceylon?
Defend Singapore?
Retake the NEI oil?
Defend islands in the Pacific?
Defend New Zealand & Australia?

These are far flung objectives. After choosing what to do, units need to be assign for each task - especially transports for delivering the units to their destinations and convoys et al for keeping them in supply.

I get the feeling that Murmansk is getting a lot of resources when it shouldn't necessarily. Perhaps that is the best use of the best CW INF (the 7-3), but you need to figure out what needs to go where all around the globe rather than simply take the best units available and commit them to the bright shining point of current interest.

Objectives should be developed for the Commonwealth for 1941. Those should drive the decisions throughout the year.

I've put the Highest priorities in bold, with 2nd tier in Red.

Defense of the UK isn't going to be a problem. The EuroAxis builds and land operations make it clear that there will be no Sea Lion (at least in the next 3-4 years). Similarly, I'd like to get an offense going in Finland, but that would be best done during the winter of 1941. The reasons these two units were chosen is that they are both white-print, Alexander was the only HQ available, and they were stacked with the right transports.

A West Africa invasion isn't possible at the moment. The Italians have a small but solid force preventing any serious landings, and Cape St. Vincent is dominated by 60+ Italian surface factors and a good amount of air cover.

I'd really like to start Wavell and his cohort up the East African coast. The units are in position, and reinforcing the area should be easy to do. What I need are Land Actions, and that means setting up convoy defenses that will hold for the full turn. This can eventually lead to retaking Egypt, so retaking Egypt is not at present a top priority.

An invasion of Iraq would be nice, but it would be an invasion in name only. I don't think I can maintain significant forces in the area for at least a year.

Aden needs to be held. It is my primary base for the Indian Ocean fleet, and the only way it could be lost is if Italy decides to go after Saudi Arabia . . . unlikely.

Tossing the Japanese out of India . . . well, I don't want them to get there in the first place. I don't know how important Ceylon actually is in game terms, so I don't know if it should be a priority or not. Similarly, I don't know if Burma is worth the effort.

Singapore has a white-print MIL in it for now, but if Japan really wants it, it has the forces to take it. The same goes for the remaining NEI Oil.

The Pacific is very large, and I think that the USA will be in the war before Japan takes it all, so that is going to be left mostly to the Americans.

Australia and New Zealand will likely be getting reinforcements through builds, and won't need units sent there.
-----
As for the USA, I've decided to spend my 3 naval moves this impulse sending out cruisers loaded with INF Divisions to the N. Atlantic and to the Bay of Biscay. Both are well defended by the CW right now, and Germany isn't going to DOW the USA. If the vote (currently 2-0) continues to favor a USA DOW attempt at 60% vs Germany and Italy, this will put these units in position to take back the Azores and maybe steal a port or two in Portugal or Spain. Just having them sitting there this turn will force Germany to send a few more units to the area.
-----
So, how important is Ceylon in WiF?

_____________________________

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it!
-Lazarus Long, RAH

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 1458
RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 1/22/2012 10:12:52 PM   
composer99


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I'm not a big fan of CW forces used just to guard USSR Karelian cities; but an expeditionary force to travel down the road and attack the Finns is most likely worthwhile:

- it reduces the forces being used to attack the USSR
- if the Germans want to reinforce Finland with their own ground troops they have to do combineds during the summer (at least until Leningrad falls).
- by advancing in Finland, the CW does not have to worry about foreign troop commitment, so it can have an army and an air force in place
- if the CW conquers Finland, it opens up a lend-lease route to Leningrad (up to 2 resources + 4 bp per turn if you like)

_____________________________

~ Composer99

(in reply to Red Prince)
Post #: 1459
RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 1/22/2012 10:17:31 PM   
Red Prince


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Joined: 4/8/2011
From: Bangor, Maine, USA
Status: offline
I should add to the above that the highest priority is protecting the Atlantic convoy pipeline. The Italian and German SUB fleets are based in Lisbon, which places them in range of 4 sea areas: Faeroes Gap, North Atlantic, Cape Verde Basin, and Mouths of the Amazon . . . This has spread the CW fleet a little thin trying to protect them all with at least a minimum of 2 units in each of the 1 Box and 0 Box, and a few extra units in the higher Boxes for the N. Atlantic and Faeroes Gap. Both the North Sea and Bay of Biscay have mid-sized forces committed to prevent Italy from deciding to stray any farthur from the Med.

That leaves too few ships to challenge the Italians in Cape St. Vincent for the time being. And that forces TRS from the UK to go around that sea area, which complicates things. The fleet of 20-25 ships in the Asian theatre are maintaining convoy lines and in the process of redeployment to the Australian pipeline. This also includes a 7 ship fleet in the Red Sea to prevent an Italian breakout in that direction.

Until the USA enters the war, it's back to "conservative" defenses at sea. Once the United States is able to take over some of these duties, the CW can afford to be more aggressive, but not until that happens.

_____________________________

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it!
-Lazarus Long, RAH

(in reply to Red Prince)
Post #: 1460
RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 1/22/2012 10:18:11 PM   
composer99


Posts: 2923
Joined: 6/6/2005
From: Ottawa, Canada
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Incidentally, I think one reason why so much attention was paid to the German DoW on China, as compared to all the other activity (the start of Barbarossa and the invasion of Indochina and the Dutch East Indies), is that we are used to seeing Axis successes on your part, so the fact that the Axis had a good start to their widening wars was, by now, unexceptional, while the German DoW on China to game the USE mechanics was seemingly aberrant.

I guess it's just easy to forget that this game & AAR are part of the beta test process and ergo such unusual actions should not be too out of the ordinary.

_____________________________

~ Composer99

(in reply to composer99)
Post #: 1461
RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 1/22/2012 10:21:35 PM   
Red Prince


Posts: 3686
Joined: 4/8/2011
From: Bangor, Maine, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: composer99

I'm not a big fan of CW forces used just to guard USSR Karelian cities; but an expeditionary force to travel down the road and attack the Finns is most likely worthwhile:

- it reduces the forces being used to attack the USSR
- if the Germans want to reinforce Finland with their own ground troops they have to do combineds during the summer (at least until Leningrad falls).
- by advancing in Finland, the CW does not have to worry about foreign troop commitment, so it can have an army and an air force in place
- if the CW conquers Finland, it opens up a lend-lease route to Leningrad (up to 2 resources + 4 bp per turn if you like)

I'd like to be able to do this, but I realized I have to stagger how many troops I can get there at one time. I can slowly move troops in over the summer and "collect" the Arctic Highway hexes during the winter of 1941 . . . and make the "big attack" during the next spring and summer. If I can get my forces placed correctly, which should be possible this summer.

_____________________________

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it!
-Lazarus Long, RAH

(in reply to composer99)
Post #: 1462
RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 1/22/2012 10:23:35 PM   
Red Prince


Posts: 3686
Joined: 4/8/2011
From: Bangor, Maine, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: composer99

Incidentally, I think one reason why so much attention was paid to the German DoW on China, as compared to all the other activity (the start of Barbarossa and the invasion of Indochina and the Dutch East Indies), is that we are used to seeing Axis successes on your part, so the fact that the Axis had a good start to their widening wars was, by now, unexceptional, while the German DoW on China to game the USE mechanics was seemingly aberrant.

I guess it's just easy to forget that this game & AAR are part of the beta test process and ergo such unusual actions should not be too out of the ordinary.

Why, thank you. I think?

_____________________________

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it!
-Lazarus Long, RAH

(in reply to composer99)
Post #: 1463
RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 1/22/2012 10:47:06 PM   
Red Prince


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From: Bangor, Maine, USA
Status: offline
While examining the enemy threat, I discovered I need to move India up as a priority. Ceylon and the NEI are going to have to be sacrificed. India is a big place, and an examination of the Japanese forces available in Canton shows that an invasion of India is actually a real possibility. As the CW, I don't like that. I only have 2 of the 4 ports on the Bay of Bengal covered right now, and since the Japanese Marines didn't get used yet, even covering the ports doesn't mean India is safe . . . looks like I'll be finding ways to increase troops in India, then.

Fortunately, I have some TERR units that have been heading there already that can enter India now. And I can get another MECH there by the end of next turn. It would be sooner, but for the Italian fleet and SUBs making the Atlantic an unsafe place for a transport on its own.
-----
Edit: The reason I mention the TERR units for now, rather than other available INF in S. Africa, is tht the TERR units cannot enter Mozambique at this time, but can enter India. The RSA INF doesn't need FTC to enter Mozambique.

< Message edited by Red Prince -- 1/22/2012 10:50:12 PM >


_____________________________

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it!
-Lazarus Long, RAH

(in reply to Red Prince)
Post #: 1464
RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 1/22/2012 10:54:48 PM   
Orm


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From: Sweden
Status: offline
I recommend defending the Major Port in Ceylon with one unit. This helps the defence of India. Letting Japan gain a major port there is a major threat.

_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

(in reply to Red Prince)
Post #: 1465
RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 1/22/2012 11:05:20 PM   
Red Prince


Posts: 3686
Joined: 4/8/2011
From: Bangor, Maine, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

I recommend defending the Major Port in Ceylon with one unit. This helps the defence of India. Letting Japan gain a major port there is a major threat.

Colombo is only a Minor Port. Trincomalee, which was taken by Japan last impulse is the Major Port, so it's too late to save it.
-----
Edit: Okay, so I've set my top 3 priorities as:
1. Defend the convoy pipelines
2. Defend India
3. Advance in East Africa

Minor priority is to try to prepare an assault on Finland, but there are 2 fresh short-ranged TRS coming in at the start of J/A '41 which can be dedicated to ferrying troops that way. After Alexander enters Murmansk with his supporting INF, all TRS will be dedicated to moving forces toward the goals listed above.

< Message edited by Red Prince -- 1/22/2012 11:09:19 PM >


_____________________________

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it!
-Lazarus Long, RAH

(in reply to Orm)
Post #: 1466
RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 1/22/2012 11:27:09 PM   
Orm


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Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
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I think US should send a fleet with a couple of units to India to help secure that front as soon as US enters the war.

I missed that Japan had captured the major port in Ceylon.

Edit: I see no regular army units as reinforcements for the CW or USA. As I understand it US considers landing in Portugal or Spain but in order to be a threat they need regular land units. An odd GAR is not enough in order to mount an offensive.

Edit2: Nice DOW and invasions by Japan. Well done.

< Message edited by Orm -- 1/22/2012 11:33:50 PM >


_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

(in reply to Red Prince)
Post #: 1467
RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 1/22/2012 11:58:10 PM   
Red Prince


Posts: 3686
Joined: 4/8/2011
From: Bangor, Maine, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

I think US should send a fleet with a couple of units to India to help secure that front as soon as US enters the war.

I missed that Japan had captured the major port in Ceylon.

Edit: I see no regular army units as reinforcements for the CW or USA. As I understand it US considers landing in Portugal or Spain but in order to be a threat they need regular land units. An odd GAR is not enough in order to mount an offensive.

Edit2: Nice DOW and invasions by Japan. Well done.

Thanks.

Eisenhower is sitting on a TRS in New York, and MacArthur and 2 ART are stacked with a TRS and AMPH in Norfolk. It isn't much, but it'll do for the time being. These potential invasions aren't intended to be permenant at this point. They are intended to draw troops away from the Soviet front.
-----
As you suggested, the CW took advantage of the Fine weather and made 2 Strat Bombing runs, only 1 of which could be intercepted. The interception was a wash, with both FTR units getting aborted, and the bomber didn't do anything useful over Lille, but he only had 3 factors to work with. His purpose was to use up the German FTR so that the 7-factor LND could make a run later this turn.

The 2nd run was on Brussels, and it was not intercepted, rolled well, and destroyed a German Production Point. All hail the RAF!




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it!
-Lazarus Long, RAH

(in reply to Orm)
Post #: 1468
RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 1/23/2012 12:14:47 AM   
Red Prince


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From: Bangor, Maine, USA
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With only 3 Air Missions now, I was considering the Ground Strike (shown with the black arrow) and realized I have another possibility to help hold the river line. I need only 1 Air Mission to get one of the FTRs in the North retreated -- the other can wait an impulse -- so I was thinking that maybe I should use Air Reorganization on these units (shown with blue arrows) instead of conducting the Ground Strike. These two units are going to end up Isolated, almost certainly, and able to be destroyed with as few as 8 or 10 factors, assuming the Germans take Chisinau. But if they are reorganized . . . well, they may be stuck where they are, but they'll be strong at least.

I'm very tired, and I want to be sure to implement the suggestions for the Soviet defense correctly, so I'm going to take a nap. In the meantime, please let me know if you think I should Ground Strike or Reorganize . . . or neither.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it!
-Lazarus Long, RAH

(in reply to Red Prince)
Post #: 1469
RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 1/23/2012 1:15:03 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

I recommend defending the Major Port in Ceylon with one unit. This helps the defence of India. Letting Japan gain a major port there is a major threat.

Colombo is only a Minor Port. Trincomalee, which was taken by Japan last impulse is the Major Port, so it's too late to save it.
-----
Edit: Okay, so I've set my top 3 priorities as:
1. Defend the convoy pipelines
2. Defend India
3. Advance in East Africa

Minor priority is to try to prepare an assault on Finland, but there are 2 fresh short-ranged TRS coming in at the start of J/A '41 which can be dedicated to ferrying troops that way. After Alexander enters Murmansk with his supporting INF, all TRS will be dedicated to moving forces toward the goals listed above.

That's better.

What makes me dislike the Finland expedition is that is something goes wrong any where else in the world, the guys in Finland won't be able to help. One of the basic rules of games is to control the center. With a circular map that is hard to define.

But I would say the the Commonwealth has two main centers at the moment: the UK (e.g., Liverpool & Plymouth) and India. With units placed in those 2 locations, they can defend in multiple directions. A third 'center' would be Brisbane, which covers their interests in the Southwest Pacific. Aden as a fleet location is 'ok' but units there are pretty much devoted to watching the Red Sea. Ceylon (I know it has been lost) is better because it provides flexibility as to which units go where: east or west.

If you can concentrate your forces in central locations, you will be better able to meet aggressive actions by the Axis and exploit tactical weaknesses in their dispositions.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Red Prince)
Post #: 1470
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