Noobish Question - Aircraft Replacement Pool

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Noobish Question - Aircraft Replacement Pool - 1/28/2012 6:02:55 PM

Flicker

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I'm trying to figure out what to do with the Dutch Air Force (which may improve my understanding of the aircraft pools in general). looking at the screenshot below, I see that I have a couple of DO24Ks, PBYs, and TiVAs in the pool. I don't understand the replacement rate - it says 2 PBYs and 12 Hurricane Trops, plus some other aircraft types "-rd" (e.g., 27 P40E - rd dated 42-03). Does this mean that all the Dutch get are 12 more Trops plus 27 P40s (for example) in March 1942? Do they get more later?

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RE: Noobish Question - Aircraft Replacement Pool - 1/28/2012 6:11:56 PM

Mike Solli

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The replacement rate is the average number you'll receive per month starting on the "Avail" month.

For example, the Dutch will receive in their replacement pool an average of 12 Hurricane IIb Trops per month beginning in Feb 42.

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RE: Noobish Question - Aircraft Replacement Pool - 1/28/2012 6:16:00 PM

witpqs

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"Yes" and "No". When you click on the individual plane type in that display you get a detailed view of that aircraft. In the lower left hand corner you will see the date range over which that aircraft is made (whether in the "Replacement" column or the "Production" column or both). Notice that some aircraft are only made for 1 month.

BTW, the PBY-5 Catalina has advantages over the Do-24K-1, so it might pay to upgrade some groups. The service rating is lower so each plane will be available more often, and they have a greater cargo load for when you fly troops around.

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RE: Noobish Question - Aircraft Replacement Pool - 1/28/2012 6:51:31 PM

Alfred

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The "-rd" means the plane is still in research and development. In other words, not yet being produced.

And yes, Dutch aircraft replacements are extremely limited. Only the PBY has an extended production run and that ceases at the end of 1942.

Alfred

(in reply to witpqs)

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RE: Noobish Question - Aircraft Replacement Pool - 1/28/2012 8:20:25 PM

Flicker

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Mike Solli, witpqs, and Alfred - thanks for your responses; it's helpful for me to see the subject explained in different ways and more depth.

So, the Dutch replacement rate for PBYs is 2 per month which are available from 1/41 to 1/42, for a total of 24 more PBYs - then no more, ever.

The Dutch will get 1 more B339 and 27 P40 fighters in 3/42 (plus about a hundred bombers) - then no more, ever.

I have several groups with pilots, but no planes. What do you do with them? Right now they are training and as soon as I figure out pilot pools I guess I'll pick out the best for assignment to a squadron with planes. The Dutch seem destined to have one active squadron and a half dozen training squadrons - if they still have a place to land.

Can you transfer planes from one group to another? Once a plane is in a group can you transfer it back to the pool?

The Dutch have performed well so far, I'd hate to lose them:

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< Message edited by Flicker -- 1/28/2012 8:23:07 PM >

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RE: Noobish Question - Aircraft Replacement Pool - 1/28/2012 8:54:29 PM

Alfred

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Unless you retain a Dutch base somewhere, or are able to change another nationality's base to accept Dutch units, you will ultimately lose your at start dutch squadrons.

Later in the war 4 units which employ Dutch pilots arrive for the RAF and RAAF. Those units have access to Allied plane stocks.

A few of the existing at start Dutch squadrons, with PDU ON, also have limited access to a few aircraft models from some other countries.

Finally the betas have introduced, at the cost of PP, accessing more plane models. Your Dutch units might qualify for this but unless you can find a safe haven to base them, you should be wary of this option were it to be applicable to Dutch squadrons.

Planes which are in the unit's reserve can be returned to the pool. Otherwise you are only left with the option of disbanding one unit into another (read s.7.2.2 of the manual)

Alfred

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RE: Noobish Question - Aircraft Replacement Pool - 1/29/2012 4:49:03 PM

Flicker

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Alfred - thank you.

Since almost all of the Dutch air groups are restricted (exception is transport group), I thought about changing some bases (e.g., Cocos Islands, Diego Garcia) in order to use the Dutch patrol aircraft, but there is no option for a Dutch command.

I 'bought out' with PPs some Dutch units which are now attached to ABDA. Their travel plans were interrupted so they're stuck on Java (with fragments in Sumatra). They recaptured a Japanese beachhead at Kalidjati, but the base turned British (ABDA) instead of Dutch (KNIL). If I wanted to, I wouldn't be able to change command to Dutch or base Dutch air groups there. Since any Dutch troops who can evacuate the DEI will be unrestricted (command changed to ABDA), any territory they retake will not be theirs. Once the Dutch leave, there's no coming back (to a Dutch base once captured).

So I guess retaining a Dutch base is the only option. One more reason to create a fortress...

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RE: Noobish Question - Aircraft Replacement Pool - 1/29/2012 5:17:11 PM

Alfred

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Look at the command heirarchy.

Dutch squadrons can be transferred to an ABDA base.

Alfred

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RE: Noobish Question - Aircraft Replacement Pool - 1/30/2012 2:25:41 AM

Knavey

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I just had every Dutch squadron I lost returned to Aden in January 43. Only the patrol squadrons had planes, but it seems a bit odd.

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RE: Noobish Question - Aircraft Replacement Pool - 1/30/2012 2:28:40 AM

Alfred

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Knavey

I just had every Dutch squadron I lost returned to Aden in January 43. Only the patrol squadrons had planes, but it seems a bit odd.

Yes, one of those so called "enhancements" of the betas. Beloved of many, it has a sting in the tail.

Alfred

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RE: Noobish Question - Aircraft Replacement Pool - 1/30/2012 4:12:27 PM

Shark7

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

quote:

ORIGINAL: Knavey

I just had every Dutch squadron I lost returned to Aden in January 43. Only the patrol squadrons had planes, but it seems a bit odd.

Yes, one of those so called "enhancements" of the betas. Beloved of many, it has a sting in the tail.

Alfred

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you have PDU on, can you not simply change the aircraft type?

Since I don't play the Allied side, I'm completely in the dark on this issue.

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RE: Noobish Question - Aircraft Replacement Pool - 1/30/2012 4:31:34 PM

Alfred

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

quote:

ORIGINAL: Knavey

I just had every Dutch squadron I lost returned to Aden in January 43. Only the patrol squadrons had planes, but it seems a bit odd.

Yes, one of those so called "enhancements" of the betas. Beloved of many, it has a sting in the tail.

Alfred

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you have PDU on, can you not simply change the aircraft type?

Since I don't play the Allied side, I'm completely in the dark on this issue.

Shark7,

Correct, part of the "enhancement" package.

As I said, this "enhancement" package is much beloved by Allied players because it makes playing the game so much easier for them. It is, in keeping with several "enhancements", one which is fundamentally contrary to the scenario design principles. Doesn't stop its supporters from engaging in some very twisted mental gymnastics to try to justify it as a valid historical reality but that is just sophistry.

Because AE is a game not a true simulation, I can accept an argument that if the Allies play well enough to retain alive some Dutch squadrons and bases post July 1942, such good play deserves some reward in limited continued access to obsolete, out of production Allied airframes. But it is fantasy to say that destroyed Dutch squadrons should be allowed to be resurrected and equipped with frontline Allied aircraft. The scenario already factors in the historical arrival of units piloted by the Dutch. There were no more human resources historically available to the Dutch. The current PP costs are simply not high enough.

So this "enhancement" affects game play and scenario design integrity. All to the benefit of the Allied player.

Alfred

(in reply to Shark7)

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RE: Noobish Question - Aircraft Replacement Pool - 1/30/2012 4:59:25 PM

Shark7

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From: The Big Nowhere
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

quote:

ORIGINAL: Knavey

I just had every Dutch squadron I lost returned to Aden in January 43. Only the patrol squadrons had planes, but it seems a bit odd.

Yes, one of those so called "enhancements" of the betas. Beloved of many, it has a sting in the tail.

Alfred

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you have PDU on, can you not simply change the aircraft type?

Since I don't play the Allied side, I'm completely in the dark on this issue.

Shark7,

Correct, part of the "enhancement" package.

As I said, this "enhancement" package is much beloved by Allied players because it makes playing the game so much easier for them. It is, in keeping with several "enhancements", one which is fundamentally contrary to the scenario design principles. Doesn't stop its supporters from engaging in some very twisted mental gymnastics to try to justify it as a valid historical reality but that is just sophistry.

Because AE is a game not a true simulation, I can accept an argument that if the Allies play well enough to retain alive some Dutch squadrons and bases post July 1942, such good play deserves some reward in limited continued access to obsolete, out of production Allied airframes. But it is fantasy to say that destroyed Dutch squadrons should be allowed to be resurrected and equipped with frontline Allied aircraft. The scenario already factors in the historical arrival of units piloted by the Dutch. There were no more human resources historically available to the Dutch. The current PP costs are simply not high enough.

So this "enhancement" affects game play and scenario design integrity. All to the benefit of the Allied player.

Alfred

Who, one can argue, don't really need any more help. I think I'd have to have a house rule that prevents the use of previously destroyed dutch or phillipine units. US, Brit, Canada, Aus/NZ, and Russian I don't see a problem with though, none of those countries should be conquered in the course of the game.

Thanks for clarifying this for me.

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RE: Noobish Question - Aircraft Replacement Pool - 1/30/2012 5:27:58 PM

Alfred

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7

... Who, one can argue, don't really need any more help. I think I'd have to have a house rule that prevents the use of previously destroyed dutch or phillipine units. US, Brit, Canada, Aus/NZ, and Russian I don't see a problem with though, none of those countries should be conquered in the course of the game.

Thanks for clarifying this for me.

Indeed. When it comes around to game features, particularly those introduced by the betas, there just aren't enough intellectually honest people around. That means pointing out the inconsistencies irrespective of whether they impact upon one side or the other.

Pre the betas the Allied player could already resurrect destroyed Dutch and Filipino squadrons, as well as the US, Brit et al. That wasn't a problem for two reasons.

Firstly the resurrected units returned with their previous HQ attachments. Thus if before destruction they could not be reallocated to another HQ, they would still have the same limitation post resurrection. If the national base was under enemy control the resurrected Dutch/Filipino units would never be able to reach the frontlines.

Secondly, the resurrected units retained their former upgrade paths. With such a limited access to replacement airframes, the utility of resurrecting these units was very questionable.

Now with the beta "enhancements" which allow for change of HQs and access to frontline Allied airframes, a significant change in play has ensued. The PP cost is simply not enough.

Bottom line, the scenario devs had produced a conceptually tight scenario. The enhancement unhinges that initial concept. And then with the resurrected dutch units post Beta now becoming useful it will only be a matter of time before some Allied players will again complain about the limited Allied air production now that there will be greater demand on procuring replacement airframes.

Every enhancement carries within it the seeds of adversely affecting some other game aspect down the line. Which is why one should always be very wary of embracing game enhancements, no matter how attractive they may appear to be on their own.

Alfred

(in reply to Shark7)

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RE: Noobish Question - Aircraft Replacement Pool - 1/31/2012 2:16:58 PM

Dobey455

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

.....And then with the resurrected dutch units post Beta now becoming useful it will only be a matter of time before some Allied players will again complain about the limited Allied air production now that there will be greater demand on procuring replacement airframes......

Alfred

Wouldn't that BE the extra penalty? That fact that they are robbing other front line units of replacements? Also I am betting the dutch pilot quality still leaves something to be desired.
Personally I'd rather keep my existing units at strength.

(in reply to Alfred)

Post #: 15