Slitherine

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ORIGINAL: composer99

If the 6-a2a FTR aren't going to CAP, send in the LND. You don't have to commit them until after the Germans have committed to CAP or not. 2 bombers vs Rundstet and one on another hex (Kharkov, perhaps). The FTR3 if it intercepts gives one worse result if you intercept with your own FTR. If the USSR gets lucky they disorganize Rundstet and the last Stuka in the Ukraine front, which means they can retreat more slowly.

If the USSR had a few more units in theatre (and especially an ARM div) I'd say blow the o-chit to take back Kharkov and kill (or at least shatter) Rundstet. However, without the ability to call the blitz on Rundstet's hex I'm hesitant to suggest it. If everything in Rundstet's hex died (HQ-A, MOT, LND2+pilot from being overrun) that would make the expense of the chit worth it.

Also, the USSR has no front in the north, so they can't prevent getting encircled in the Ukraine right now if they did stand and counter-attack.

The groundstrike needs to happen, though, IMO.


Persia: The USSR needs to extend the line to the Caspian Sea coast. I don't think they have to do it this turn because the German disorganized stack prevents the Germans from hooking around (there's an Alpine hexside in the way, too, I think). But it needs to happen.

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ORIGINAL: Orm

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So, do I make the invasion or not?

Not.

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ORIGINAL: Red Prince

Finally, in Persia, the 2nd MECH Division in Tabriz is just bait. Can you hear them begging the Soviets to attack? Meanwhile, Italy is building up for an attack on Teheran to liberate the Persian people. They'll be able to make a decent attack in 2 impulses, and if Germany helps out, they can make a pretty good attack at that point. For Italy, all that matters is that the INF in Teheran dies. It would be wonderful to take over Persia this turn, but if it means waiting until S/O '41 to get the job done, that's just fine with Italy.

The Japanese fleet in the Arabian Sea is still pretty strong, even if you don't include the Air-to-Sea factors of the CVP (Storm), so it's unlikely that the Allies will be able to dislodge them in the coming impulse. That means supply in this part of the world should be safe for another impulse or two.

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ORIGINAL: Centuur

I think I wouldn't invade this impulse. However: I agree that the Invasion force should be gathered in the UK. Also: I agree with Steve that units should be put into Murmansk and Archangel. There isn't another CW HQ in the UK I presume? That than means that US units have to be used for this. That Finnish Ski Division is one hex to close to Murmansk to wait another turn.

On the Persian front I agree on the moves Steve proposes.
Also: I like the proposed USSR ground strikes on von Rundstedt. Yes, they are risky, but if the Germans don't use the FTR for CAP, it means at least one of the German FTR3 will have to be used and those TAC factors won't be available for nasty ground strikes or support. This might means another turn with the German Luftwaffe being far behind the front. Nice... Use one of those crappy USSR bombers as front bomber and one of the better ones as the next in line. If the first bomber is killed or your best bomber is cleared, abort.
And imagine what happens if vRundstedt cannot be used for the rest of the turn...

Yes: Mr. von Rundstedt would get some Soviet eggs on his head this impulse...
However: killing him is unfortunately not an option, even with the O-Chit. The moment the Russians crack that chit on Koniev, as the Germans I would fly CAP on vRundstedt and get those two FTR3 to add another 7 ground support, making the defense 20. I don't think the Soviets can get a high odds attack on vRundstedt at that point, with rivers in place...

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ORIGINAL: Red Prince

I've got a series of 4 images to show. The first one is a degraded full-front shot of what the Soviets face. I'll talk about individual items in the next three shots.

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ORIGINAL: Centuur

Most of those moves, I agree with Steve. I'm not happy with disorganising Timoshenko in the frontlines, so I would suggest to move the Sverdlovsk MIL into Rostov and to railmove Timoshenko out of the action into the Caucasus. Why put an HQ in a hero city, when there is a MIL you can use for this?
Koniev can do without the Sverdlovsk MIL, I think.

Timoshenko than lives to fight another day...

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ORIGINAL: composer99

What clinches it as a no for using the o-chit for me are these:
1- USSR doesn't have the ARM to call a blitz.
2- USSR can't prevent an encirclement from the north if it stays and fights for the one imulse it uses the chit

I agree with Centuur: Timoshenko should be railed away to live & fight another day.

For my part, I think the AA can walk to Voronezh and another factory can be railed instead.

Also, German HQs von Leeb and von Bock are both 2 impulses behind the main line if they walk so disorganizing Rundstet slows the German advance this turn by 1-2 . Also, the Stuka in that hex is the last organized German bomber in this sector. So disorganizing Rundstet, especially if the groundstrike also hits the Stuka, means that if the Germans want to reorganize their airforce they are at the end of their supply line about when they reach Voronezh (although they can always move out of supply).

Most of the USSR planes involved can rebase to Krasnodar, where they are not at significant risk of being overrun this turn.

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ORIGINAL: composer99

What clinches it as a no for using the o-chit for me are these:
1- USSR doesn't have the ARM to call a blitz.
2- USSR can't prevent an encirclement from the north if it stays and fights for the one imulse it uses the chit

I agree with Centuur: Timoshenko should be railed away to live & fight another day.

For my part, I think the AA can walk to Voronezh and another factory can be railed instead.

Also, German HQs von Leeb and von Bock are both 2 impulses behind the main line if they walk so disorganizing Rundstet slows the German advance this turn by 1-2 . Also, the Stuka in that hex is the last organized German bomber in this sector. So disorganizing Rundstet, especially if the groundstrike also hits the Stuka, means that if the Germans want to reorganize their airforce they are at the end of their supply line about when they reach Voronezh (although they can always move out of supply).

Most of the USSR planes involved can rebase to Krasnodar, where they are not at significant risk of being overrun this turn.

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ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

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ORIGINAL: composer99

What clinches it as a no for using the o-chit for me are these:
1- USSR doesn't have the ARM to call a blitz.
2- USSR can't prevent an encirclement from the north if it stays and fights for the one imulse it uses the chit

I agree with Centuur: Timoshenko should be railed away to live & fight another day.

For my part, I think the AA can walk to Voronezh and another factory can be railed instead.

Also, German HQs von Leeb and von Bock are both 2 impulses behind the main line if they walk so disorganizing Rundstet slows the German advance this turn by 1-2 . Also, the Stuka in that hex is the last organized German bomber in this sector. So disorganizing Rundstet, especially if the groundstrike also hits the Stuka, means that if the Germans want to reorganize their airforce they are at the end of their supply line about when they reach Voronezh (although they can always move out of supply).

Most of the USSR planes involved can rebase to Krasnodar, where they are not at significant risk of being overrun this turn.

If Rundstedt is disorganized (a very iffy result), the HQ in the Crimea can move north and put all the units in the south in supply. The second HQ can move into Kiev to supply the center. The 2 HQ's in the north can supply the north. At this point the Germans are not out running their supply. Maybe in a couple more impulses if the Russians keep retreating 4 hexes per turn. I still recommend no ground strikes here. If the USSR air force is all used up, then the Germans will be able to calculate attacks accurately. They will also be able to use their fighters for ground strikes/support since they won't have to worry about protecting anyone any more.

We want more strength in Rostov. 15 doubled by the swamp is 30 which should be able to hold for quite a while. While Yeremenko is an HQ, he is a poor HQ, with legs too short to run away. If we rail him to the Urals, how far east should he go? I would rather have 5 more factors in Rostov - which is crucial for holding the Caucasus.

Yes, getting another factory out would be nice. How about moving the 2-6 MECH to Moscow (I want a third unit there) and the 2-3 AA to where the 2 Inf are holding the line in front of the Don? Then the 2-5 MECH can stay with the units with which he is currently stacked. This leaves the stacks about the same and doesn't use up a rail move.

[Peter, the Mil would be better but it is disorganized - it rail moved last turn.]

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ORIGINAL: composer99

Rostov is at risk of being encircled. If the Germans or Italians have the means to cut overseas supply to Rostov any planes (or HQs) disorganized there might stay that way if they can't trace to oil.

I suppose it's correct not to send all the bombers to hit Rundstet. I would still send one bomber and hope to get lucky, hitting either Rundstet or the Stuka. If the Germans use the AA and don't send a FTR up, so much the better.

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Yes, getting another factory out would be nice. How about moving the 2-6 MECH to Moscow (I want a third unit there) and the 2-3 AA to where the 2 Inf are holding the line in front of the Don? Then the 2-5 MECH can stay with the units with which he is currently stacked. This leaves the stacks about the same and doesn't use up a rail move.

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ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

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ORIGINAL: composer99

Rostov is at risk of being encircled. If the Germans or Italians have the means to cut overseas supply to Rostov any planes (or HQs) disorganized there might stay that way if they can't trace to oil.

I suppose it's correct not to send all the bombers to hit Rundstet. I would still send one bomber and hope to get lucky, hitting either Rundstet or the Stuka. If the Germans use the AA and don't send a FTR up, so much the better.

That is a concern - something I hadn't thought of. Still, I guess I just don't like Yeremenko on defense. He always has to be worried about.

Actually, I am thinking about maybe using Koniev to reorganize units if the Germans have a successful attack in front the Don. Then I would use the O-chit to reorganize all the HQ's at the start of the next impulse. Listen closely and you will hear shrieks of outrage from all the offensive-minded players. I would DEFEND Russia with everything available. Dreams of counter-offensives are just that: dreams.

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ORIGINAL: composer99

Hopefully the Japanese fleet commander went down with his flag in one of the CVs after that disgrace.

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ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

Attrition of the air forces over occupied Europe and Germany works in the Allied favor. 1 for 1 isn't bad.

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ORIGINAL: composer99

While my preference is for strat bombing areas without German fighter cover to reduce the risk to the bombers (and to make the Germans use up more FTR to defend their factories instead of on the front lines), as long as you can get a +1 or better in an air combat (+2 or better for preference) flying against FTR is acceptable.

Indeed, the Allies want to fight air combats as long as they have the advantage in order to attrition Axis airpower.

So I would say hitting a defended hex when there are undefended targets is suboptimal, although if it has opened up the Rhineland factory base for multiple unintercepted strat raids, then the sacrifice will be acceptable.

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ORIGINAL: composer99

I think Steve & I eventually recommended that the AA gun move to the hex southwest of Ryazan with the other units. The Germans can get 3:1 assuming 3 hexes attacking and 16 factors per attacking hex against the 11 factors of INF and 2 (or 4) factors of AA gun, while they can get 4:1 if there's just the two INF. In addition, they would need to use both HQ-A Rommel and the arm div to call the blitz with the AA gun present; all they need is the div to blitz the INF on their own.