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ASW Advice Requested - 2/13/2012 5:34:53 PM

Keifer
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From: San Diego, CA
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I am looking for advice on the best way to use short range ASW task forces to hunt down subs lurking near ports (Pearl, Sydney, US WC)

I've heard about Allied players who use Search planes to find the Japanese Subs and then use hunter killer groups to finish them off. I can't figure out how to make this work.

I have been creating an 3-4 ship TF of AM or KV and then setting them up on a patrol zone from my port to a spot about 6-8 hexes distance where my convoys travel with a reaction range of 6.

Is it better to just leave them undocked in the port hex, with a reaction range of 6?

Or give them a fixed destination with orders to remain on station?

IF THIS TOPIC IS COVERED IN A PREVIOUS THREAD, I'D LOVE A LINK.

Thanks, Keith

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RE: ASW Advice Requested - 2/13/2012 6:02:52 PM

Gridley380
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I've been trying to do ASW the same way (ASW TFs set a little ways off major ports) and getting few to no hits against the Japanese, despite having subs sighted almost every day. Even with lots of PBYs and OS2Us on ASW 50% at 1,000', even with multiple 4xKV TFs, I just can't seem to kill those I-boats.

(in reply to Keifer)

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RE: ASW Advice Requested - 2/13/2012 6:32:47 PM

crsutton
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Lower the reaction range a bit to 2 or 3 or else they will just shoot all over the place and burn up fuel. Give them a three hex patrol range near your ports. Put up some air search. Just bear in mind that early war Allied ASW is pretty weak and you are really looking to harass the enemy more than anything else. But for that purpose any little dinky ship that has DC will work. By the end of 1942 you will start to see a lot more kills. As for convoys the best way to kill subs is to escort your convoys. I would not worry about ASW TFs out in the sea lanes as you just won't have enough ships. But even one escort for a convoy really helps as the games targeting code is pretty borked and more than half the time the sub will target the escort, (usually missing) and your merchants will escape. This is really the best thing you can do early in the war.

Once you can train up enough air search and ASW skills combined with better weapons, you will then really start to see some kills. But for the Allies 1942 is a dangerous year.

All things considered my chief sub killer has been my DDs. Not really DEs, patrol or SC type ships. I think it has more to do with experience than anything else. If I really want to kill subs, then I send DDs out in ASW TFs. British DDs are very good right from the start.

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RE: ASW Advice Requested - 2/13/2012 7:05:44 PM

zuluhour
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I agree with CR. A litle bit of everything, search, asw. asw ships. I escort convoys and "clear routes" with ASW close to ports and as they enter blue water peel off the smaller port ASW assets. I have had best results with single ship ASW TFs as opposed to 3-4 ship variety. Larger ASW TFs tend to attract IJN subs, and not in a good way. When your ac spot'em send in the hunters. Lots of clear patrol clicking but worth the effort in MHO.

(in reply to crsutton)

Post #: 4

RE: ASW Advice Requested - 2/13/2012 7:21:25 PM

Sardaukar
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As crsutton says, it's important to lower reaction range to get best results. For some reason, range 6 produces very few interceptions, while 1-3 produce lot more. I think it is because ships run out of Ops points if reacting too far. And you also have to assign patrol zone, since things like Remain in Station will negate reaction range.

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RE: ASW Advice Requested - 2/13/2012 8:32:16 PM

Banzan
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Ensure that you are using commanders with good naval rating (and good agression rating if you want to use reaction range). I always build triangles from port and use 2 DDs or 3 AMs/KVs or SCs for a group. In '42 you may run in serious trouble with the amount of DDs left/avaible, so i sometimes drop to 1+/2+ groups and only protect important harbours like Pearl and San Fransico. Once radar gets better, it will be much better for you. And it feels great when your first convoy just steamed over an attaking submarine leaving nothing else then debris on the surface.

And if you Escorts loose the shooting, your AKs may be victorious (AM Cromer took ~30 System and 19 Flooding damage)!

Submarine attack near Akyab at 54,45

Japanese Ships
SS I-124, hits 12, heavy damage

Allied Ships
AM Cromer, Shell hits 1, on fire
xAK Michael Livanos

SS I-124 is sighted by escort
AM Cromer fails to find sub, continues to search...
AM Cromer fails to find sub, continues to search...
AM Cromer fails to find sub, continues to search...
AM Cromer fails to find sub, continues to search...
AM Cromer attacking submerged sub ....
SS I-124 forced to surface!
xAK Michael Livanos firing on surfaced sub ....
xAK Michael Livanos firing on surfaced sub ....
xAK Michael Livanos firing on surfaced sub ....
xAK Michael Livanos firing on surfaced sub ....
xAK Michael Livanos firing on surfaced sub ....
AM Cromer firing on surfaced sub ....
xAK Michael Livanos firing on surfaced sub ....
AM Cromer firing on surfaced sub ....
xAK Michael Livanos firing on surfaced sub ....
Sub slips beneath the waves

No confirmed kill, but good chance of a kill.

< Message edited by Banzan -- 2/13/2012 8:42:32 PM >

(in reply to Sardaukar)

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RE: ASW Advice Requested - 2/13/2012 10:01:22 PM

crsutton
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quote:

ORIGINAL: zuluhour

Larger ASW TFs tend to attract IJN subs, and not in a good way.

This is sort of what I want to happen...

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RE: ASW Advice Requested - 2/13/2012 10:48:34 PM

aphrochine
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Arleigh Burke, the busiest man in my Navy.

Assign him to sub hot spots his. Not sure what stat (aggression, naval, both) that results in so many attacks, but from my experience he's a ruthless sub hunter.

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RE: ASW Advice Requested - 2/14/2012 12:15:46 AM

spence
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Train up some squadrons on both ASW and Low Naval until the pilots are in 60s in each. It seems to me that you start to get both attacks and hits when the squadron is trained that way. For long range planes like LB-30s it is useful to decrease the range to half or so of their nominal ASW range: that too seems to increase the number of sightings and attacks. Some of the 4-piper DDs convert to DEs with an 8 ASW factor...if you can get them into AND out of some fights in the DEI they make great sub killers.

(in reply to Keifer)

Post #: 9

RE: ASW Advice Requested - 2/14/2012 5:20:00 AM

LoBaron
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quote:

ORIGINAL: zuluhour

A litle bit of everything, search, asw. asw ships. I escort convoys and "clear routes" with ASW close to ports and as they enter blue water peel off the smaller port ASW assets. I have had best results with single ship ASW TFs as opposed to 3-4 ship variety. Larger ASW TFs tend to attract IJN subs, and not in a good way. When your ac spot'em send in the hunters. Lots of clear patrol clicking but worth the effort in MHO.

Good tactics, and yes you need navS, airborne ASW and ASW TF to kill rather than drive away.

Although I agree with crsutton, I want the sub to engage my ASW groups.
I usually max them out, 3-4 ships, one ship has the "disadvantage" of sinking when hit by a torp, so you better got more so the TF can
retaliate. Optimally a DD/KV with a high aggression commander as flag, rest depends on availability.
Also, I do not actively engage subs, the time I´d need to change PZ I rather prefer to use for my own subs.

I do change PZs from time to time, but only in accordance to the general situation, nearly never for a single contact.

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RE: ASW Advice Requested - 2/14/2012 11:34:33 AM

oldman45
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From: Jacksonville Fl
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I run one or 2 DD's with my convoys and have 3 or 4 ship asw patrols around the ports. I have patrol squadrons covering all the ports and on more than one occasion the asw TF's (reaction set to 3) will move over to hunt the sub if I have a good TF commander.

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Post #: 11