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changes/updates to SPWAW - 1/16/2001 1:13:00 PM   
Joseph

 

Posts: 11
Joined: 11/14/2000
Status: offline
I have a little list of things that i would like to see fixed in the update. A) I do believe that giving an afv the ability to reverse a limited distance would be realistic and that it did happen fairly often in real life (under certain situations). Someone mentioned street fighting. I do agree with that... It would seem going in reverse would be a necessity in that situation. However, my biggest complaint would be that a TC in real life...if he isn't green, or in a state of extreme panic.. would go in reverse in order to help extricate his tank from a situation. this offers 2 major advantages. 1) The frontal armor remains pointed at the threat. 2) the gun also remains pointed at the threat. there is no need for the gunner to swivel the turret and acquire the target again, as he would have to if the tank pivoted and started charging forward, away from the threat. To offer an example... Let's say i'm the TC of a sherman 75. i move out into a clearing from behind a hill to begin scouting, and now i'm 100 meters from the cover i exited. All of a sudden, the gunner spots what he thinks is a Puma in the forest, about 800 meters away. We begin receiving fire, possibly from more than one afv. only one has been spotted. Now...i would drop down and close the hatch while ordering the driver to back up as fast as he can. i would also order the gunner to start lobbing rounds into the treeline where the fire is coming from. I would certainly not order the driver to turn the rear end of the sherman to the enemy in order to charge back behind our hill. That just doesnt make sense, and if we do take a hit from light armor, like a 50mm L/60, the front hull/turret has a fair possibility of stopping the round. The rear hull or turret does not. I would strongly encourage the inclusion of a reverse option for 100m or so, possibly 150, but that seems a bit much. B) Also, get rid of the ability for a afv crew to assault an enemy afv. They certainly wouldn't do that, since their morale would have failed completely and utterly upon having their vehicle destroyed. Besides, what would they have to destroy an enemy tank? Pistols, maybe one carbine? C) I have had this sort of situation happen numerous times while playing SPWAW. In a wooded area, I had a few infantry squads and a tank. An enemy tank came charging through the woods, and ended up in the hex directly in front of my tank. now as it was the computer's turn, my tank and the computer tank exchanged fire. nothing happened. On my turn, i moved one of my infantry squads, previously hidden, to the adjacent hex to the rear of the enemy tank. the enemy tank suddenly swung completely around, and basically annihilated my squad; some 4 guys were left. There is no way that could realistically happen. The enemy tank would not and could not see my infantry directly behind it. It would not and could not turn around fast enough to get a shot off at the infantry before they assaulted it, and besides my tank would quickly drill it if it tried. Turning a vehicle should bring down op fire upon it, in my opinion. Forward movement shouldnt be the only trigger. And tanks should not be able to spot enemy infantry in the woods who are moving about in a sneaky manner behind it. Tank spotting in general should be reduced in all terrain. D) I have played a couple scenarios where lightly armored vehicles have taken 2 or 3 penetrating hits from an 88mm AT gun, and the crew didn't bail out..nor was the vehicle destroyed. Could anyone please show me any archival reports where a T-26 stood up to 88mm fire, took 2 penetrating hits, and still continued fighting? My guess is...no way. Similar things have happened with british crusaders in another scenario, a number of times. My understanding was that the rounds were not solid shot, rather AP-HE. an 88 would make for a rather nasty internal explosion... not to mention generating a huge amount of fragments and spall. Heck, an HE shell from that gun would have a good chance of taking out a T-26 or Crusader. E) Costs and ammo loadouts for heavy guns should be looked at and adjusted, as others have suggested. It is far too easy the way things stand for someone to buy about a regiment's worth of >155mm arty and just obliterate everything on the map. A battalion level engagement wouldnt have that sort of fire support anyway. This might sound harsh at times, but it is frustrating when some of these things happen. Please change the modifiers associated with the events i've described, and please include the ability for limited reverse movement of vehicles allowing them to keep their frontal armor pointed at the enemy. Thank you. -joseph

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- 1/16/2001 1:59:00 PM   
David Heath


Posts: 3274
Joined: 3/29/2000
From: Staten Island NY
Status: offline
Joe What you are for is not for SPWAW. The code just can not handle it. You should wait for Combat Leader. David

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(in reply to Joseph)
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- 1/16/2001 9:06:00 PM   
Paul Vebber


Posts: 11430
Joined: 3/29/2000
From: Portsmouth RI
Status: offline
There some things that we have done in ver 4.6. The key to reverse movement is that it MIGHT happen in SPECIAL circumstances...there is no way to code that in the game without it it being something folks would abuse the heck out of, or likely intriduce a scad of bugs. Afv crews assault capabilities are greatly reduced in version 4.6. Neither this game nor Combaat Leader are rigorous models of battlefield kinematics The situation you describe is an artifact of the game showing a "frozen snapshot" of a VERY DYNAMIC battlefield, maybe your tanks TC saw the infantry and realized that was the bigger threat and reversed within the hex and caused the tank to miss and took out the infantry? Don;t get wrapped around the axel about what direction things get "frozen'in at theend of their turn. COmbat leader will address a lot of this, but there will still be the chance that the TC has a better handle on the situation than the situation is protrayed on the map. Are you familiar with wound dynamics in a human body? SOmeone can get their finger shot off and die fom shock. I heard a story forma korean war vet who had a Chicom empty a full magazine from his rifle into his gut and then bayonet him and he survived. While we have adjusted the penetration model a fair bit to keep 88s from bouncing at high angles, the fact remains that the damage effect of a penetrating round was far from "penetration=kill". In fact in many cases light armor would suffer "through and through" penetrations that did fairly little damage if nor crossing the crew compartment. Maybe these hits took chunks off the periphery? There are lots of places on a tank that a glancing hit will not do a whole lot of damage. An 88 he DOES have a good chance of taking out light armor...or at least damaging it to a piece of scrap:-) We are looking once more at the arty load out issue, but I'm not sure that heavy artilery were allocated proportionally less ammo...the ewhole idea is that the target requires a bigger walloping, so the heavier arty was used to put more firepoer on it. IF folks don;t like playing with lots of artillery simply agree not to...

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(in reply to Joseph)
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- 1/17/2001 1:38:00 AM   
BlitzSS

 

Posts: 253
Joined: 10/24/2000
From: wasChicagoLand, now DC
Status: offline
I had pointed out a way to compensate for reverse gears that also would help cover the problem of armor spinning about to defensive fire on INF in the woods, but maybe these things just can't be fixed in SP???. However, if CL took SPWAW v4.x: fixed these mechanics(this is a big one!); introduced a better C&C concept; redo the oobs with accurate data; and then maybe add some spice with customized leaders. I would reserve my copy today. Sounds like those T26 crews were fanatical. The problem always seems that it is the AI that gets all the breaks and it is the human players whose weapons break, shells pass through then enemy causing fanatic behavior, and can't spot a squad in the open 1 hex away, while AI sees a sniper in cover 10 hexes away, but we still love it. It blows away CM any day.

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"Nuts"

(in reply to Joseph)
Post #: 4
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