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refit bug? - 2/18/2012 8:36:16 AM   
fcam1387

 

Posts: 397
Joined: 5/17/2006
Status: offline 		Any reason why I am obtain refit replacement despite the fact that I have no units actually on refit?

Refit replacements make up the bulk of my replacements, dwarfing the normal replacements segment...
Post #: 1
RE: refit bug? - 2/18/2012 8:41:43 AM   
2ndACR


Posts: 5665
Joined: 8/31/2003
From: Irving,Tx
Status: offline 		Happens normally. Refit setting tells the computer to prioritize this unit. Otherwise everyone gets an equal slice of the pie.

(in reply to fcam1387)
Post #: 2
RE: refit bug? - 2/18/2012 8:46:28 AM   
Denniss

 

Posts: 7902
Joined: 1/10/2002
From: Germany, Hannover (region)
Status: offline 		AFAIR support units in HQ are treated as in refit mode.
If you have lots of manpower in the transfer pool, locate the equipment shown in transfer pool. If you have masses of support and labor squads in transfer pool (often as Axis), there's a workaround to get them back:
Go to commander's report, clear all filters, set maxTOE for all units to 84%, then click None to disable all types and re-enable fort and construction type units. Set their maxTOE to 54%. Over the next turns you should get most support/labor back in active pool, the manpower now usable for other equipment.

< Message edited by Denniss -- 2/18/2012 8:48:11 AM >

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(in reply to fcam1387)
Post #: 3
RE: refit bug? - 2/18/2012 12:15:18 PM   
fcam1387

 

Posts: 397
Joined: 5/17/2006
Status: offline 		So you're saying that the 30,000-40,000 replacements i receive each turn are not actually going to rifle squads and such - the units that really need them? Labour / support squads are most likely soaking them up??? I put max TOE in the commander's report screen for construction, art, AA, AT and rockets at 65-70% This is not sufficient on its own?

(in reply to Denniss)
Post #: 4
RE: refit bug? - 2/18/2012 8:57:03 PM   
Denniss

 

Posts: 7902
Joined: 1/10/2002
From: Germany, Hannover (region)
Status: offline 		Please post a savegame or at least tell us which side you are playing and, if Axis, how many support, labor and manpower show up in transfer pool.

BTW if you set all your units to refit mode it's normal that most of the replacement stuff from the event log is shown in the refit subsegment, if you set them all back to normal mode then log events follow them.

_____________________________

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Post #: 5
RE: refit bug? - 2/19/2012 1:28:06 AM   
fcam1387

 

Posts: 397
Joined: 5/17/2006
Status: offline 		Hi,


I am playing Axis - turn 2. I disbanded a lot of RHG commands so this explains the very large number of replacements - but for some reason, all the replacemnts are on refit despite the fact that I have turned it off for every unit.




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< Message edited by fcam1387 -- 2/19/2012 1:35:59 AM >

(in reply to Denniss)
Post #: 6
RE: refit bug? - 2/19/2012 1:35:18 AM   
fcam1387

 

Posts: 397
Joined: 5/17/2006
Status: offline 		FYI, this occurs for every subsequent turn as well - not just turn 2 when there seem to be a lot in the pools.

Here are the numbers of support, labour and manpower in the transfer pools...

What I want to know is, where the hell are all these replacements going? because they don't seem to be going to the units that need them...




Attachment (1)

(in reply to fcam1387)
Post #: 7
RE: refit bug? - 2/19/2012 1:35:48 AM   
fcam1387

 

Posts: 397
Joined: 5/17/2006
Status: offline 		manpower




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Post #: 8
RE: refit bug? - 2/20/2012 6:25:56 AM   
fcam1387

 

Posts: 397
Joined: 5/17/2006
Status: offline 		Anyone out there? :)

I'm on turn 4 now and seem to be having the same refit issue despite none of my units being set to refit mode.

[savegame attached]

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by fcam1387 -- 2/20/2012 6:39:39 AM >

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Post #: 9
RE: refit bug? - 2/20/2012 6:43:18 AM   
gingerbread


Posts: 2994
Joined: 1/4/2007
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		HQ's and SU's are always on refit.

(in reply to fcam1387)
Post #: 10
RE: refit bug? - 2/20/2012 6:58:53 AM   
fcam1387

 

Posts: 397
Joined: 5/17/2006
Status: offline 		Ok - but if that's the case, why does it appear that next to no combat units are getting replaced? those guys seem to be soaking up everything...

(in reply to gingerbread)
Post #: 11
RE: refit bug? - 2/20/2012 7:25:30 AM   
Denniss

 

Posts: 7902
Joined: 1/10/2002
From: Germany, Hannover (region)
Status: offline 		You have 3200 support and 500 labor squads in transfer pool. Please use the maxTOE setting I suggested to keep them down - lots of your units are set to 100%.
Pavel has found some issues in the code and were are currently testing these changes for stability and possible side effects.

(in reply to fcam1387)
Post #: 12
RE: refit bug? - 2/20/2012 7:44:18 AM   
gingerbread


Posts: 2994
Joined: 1/4/2007
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		The '42 scenario starts with 150k Hiwi in the pool, and it is good that these gets added as support so as to recycle manpower from support that can be used in combat ground elements instead. So the turn 2 figure of slightly less than 150k added in refit phase is to be expected, even with refit turned off.

However, there is a detail with a devil:

I checked you turn 4 save and it looks as if Hiwi's are getting added to support but the units stay above quota i.e. the men the Hiwis are to replace stays in the units. Shown below are two examples AGS & 1P AB. The CR reports are from At Start (left) and turn 4 (right), filtered to GE HQ's.

Would be good if you could attach your turn 2 & 3 saves to this thread as well. I think this needs to be looked at.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to fcam1387)
Post #: 13
RE: refit bug? - 2/20/2012 8:48:06 AM   
Denniss

 

Posts: 7902
Joined: 1/10/2002
From: Germany, Hannover (region)
Status: offline 		Hiwis supplant german support/labor but do not replace them. At least that's how it works. I could not find exact information in the manual how they are intented to work/behave though.

_____________________________

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WitE 1.08+ dev team (data/scenario maintainer)
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WitE2 dev team (aircraft data)

(in reply to gingerbread)
Post #: 14
RE: refit bug? - 2/20/2012 8:53:20 AM   
fcam1387

 

Posts: 397
Joined: 5/17/2006
Status: offline 		I have turn 2, but not turn 3 (overwritten)

Attachment (1)

(in reply to Denniss)
Post #: 15
RE: refit bug? - 2/20/2012 1:07:35 PM   
fcam1387

 

Posts: 397
Joined: 5/17/2006
Status: offline 		ok turn 5 and 6 to follow, if anyone is still interested.

Attachment (1)

(in reply to fcam1387)
Post #: 16
RE: refit bug? - 2/20/2012 1:08:20 PM   
fcam1387

 

Posts: 397
Joined: 5/17/2006
Status: offline 		turn 6

Thanks for the help

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Post #: 17
RE: refit bug? - 2/20/2012 5:35:29 PM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 32265
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline 		1.05.18 readme:

14) New Rule – Hiwis (Hilfswilliger - "auxiliary volunteers") – Rules have been added to account for the soldiers and civilians that served as support personnel for German units during WWII (known as Hiwis).
a) Hiwis are generated from captured men. 8% of captured manpower will go into a Hiwi pool. Also, captured manpower centers in the Soviet Union produce 10 men for each captured point (theater production limits and damage to manpower centers apply).
b) Hiwis can be added to German unit’s Support and Labor Squads starting from 1942.
c) Hiwis can't be added to High Command HQs.
d) Hiwis can't be more than 70% of current labor ground element TOE, 30% of current support element TOE, or 10% of current support element TOE of an SS Elite unit TOE.
e) If the parent element is targeted and is destroyed there is a maximum 60% chance that a Hiwis squad will be destroyed instead (the less percentage of the element made up with Hiwis, the smaller the chance that a Hiwi squad will be destroyed).
f) Hiwis elements provide the same amount of support and engineer values as a normal support squad.
g) Upon loading a save from an earlier version of the game, when the first German logistics phase executes with the new version, the game will generate Hiwis based on the existing captured men and manpower centers (a onetime adjustment).
h) Interface changes - The number of Hiwis in a unit is show on the unit’s detailed information display. The number of Hiwi elements is shown in parenthesis next to the ground element type. So the entry Support (Hiwi 2) indicates that 2 of the support squads in the unit are Hiwi squads). The production screen has an entry for Hiwis, showing how many men are in the Hiwi pool. Hiwis are included in the total German manpower shown on the Order of Battle screen.
i) Hiwi’s can be set in the editor by using the editor functions on the CR screen. It allows the scenario designer to substitute Hiwi’s for normal support and labor elements. The Hiwi pool can also be set on the production screen.


_____________________________

All understanding comes after the fact.
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(in reply to fcam1387)
Post #: 18
RE: refit bug? - 2/20/2012 10:25:02 PM   
Denniss

 

Posts: 7902
Joined: 1/10/2002
From: Germany, Hannover (region)
Status: offline 		Manual section just states the max number of Hiwis per unit type but not whether they are intended to supplant german squads or are intended to replace them. BTW Hiwis in SS units - really ?
Or shall one read 14b "can be added to german types" as "added on top of german types" ?
I assume 14d shall be read as design TOE (=100%) or is it dynamically determined based on the actual TOE of support/labor squads?

(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 19
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