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RE: Ship Repair 101 Guide - 12/23/2011 1:24:42 AM   
dr.hal


Posts: 3335
Joined: 6/3/2006
From: Covington LA via Montreal!
Status: offline 		Tis the season to be JOLLY... and this input certainly makes great strides in that direction.... Thanks to both of you. This is an important aspect of the game which separates it from the "masses" and you have made it so much more understandable. Thanks again. Hal

(in reply to Mac Linehan)
Post #: 31
RE: Ship Repair 101 Guide - 12/23/2011 3:02:27 PM   
d0mbo

 

Posts: 592
Joined: 8/21/2009
From: Holland
Status: offline 		And finally i see some more uses to all the tender types, especially the AD and AG ones.
These ones care for DD/APD sized vessels. Those always need repairs! Tokyo express needs to keep on running!

Thanks,

d0mbo.





< Message edited by d0mbo -- 12/23/2011 3:05:30 PM >

(in reply to dr.hal)
Post #: 32
RE: Ship Repair 101 Guide - 12/23/2011 3:53:03 PM   
dr.hal


Posts: 3335
Joined: 6/3/2006
From: Covington LA via Montreal!
Status: offline 		Alfred, I have taken the liberty of pulling all the tables and a few other things out of your very seminal work and placed them below. I do this because I'm one of those types that likes to print things out, but your input is very large, so its reduction into the tables makes sense. I also put it into REAL English (sorry, I couldn't help that, I had to do it, especially as my thesis had to be written in the "Queen's English"!) If you think I've done wrong, I'll remove this post. Thanks Again, Hal


Glossary of Abbreviations Used:

• IR* - integrity repair
• IRP* – integrity repair point
• POD – point of damage
• RW* – repair worker
• WR – weapon repair
• WRP – weapon repair point

Table A: Weapon Repair Costs

Rockets (all types) cost 50 WRP
Radars and ASW detectors cost 90 WRP
Mines and Torpedoes cost 120 WRP
Guns cost WRP equal to the effect value of the gun

Exemplar A: the 16in/50 Mk 7 gun has an effect of 2700, hence the cost in WRP = 2700. The WRP cost to repair a 20mm Oerlikon AA gun is 15.

Table B: WRP generated by shipyards, ports and tenders for weapon repairs

(Shipyard size x 20) [NB: there is a maximum cap of 300 on shipyard size]
(Tenders generate a fixed 250 WRP)
(Port size x 25)

Exemplar B: As seen in table A, the WRP cost to repair a single 16in/50 Mk 7 gun is 2700. Only a shipyard sized 135 will generate sufficient WRP in a turn to repair a single 16in/50 Mk 7 gun. If the damaged weapon were instead a torpedo which requires only 120 WRP, the repair could be effected at a shipyard sized 6 or alternatively by an appropriate tender for the type of vessel or alternatively at a port sized 5.

Table C: IRP generated by shipyards, naval support squads and crews

(Shipyard size x 10)
(Naval Support Squads/2) minus (Damage/5) for repairing ships in “pierside mode”
(Naval Support Squads/3) minus (Damage/5) for repairing ships docked in “readiness mode”
(Crew Experience/8)

Exemplar C: A size 10 shipyard will generate 100 IRP each turn. It therefore can remove a single POD each turn from a single ship in “shipyard repair mode”.


Table D: IRP generated by ports

Port size 1 generates 8 IRP
Port size 2 generates 27 IRP
Port size 3 generates 27 IRP
Port size 4 generates 38 IRP
Port size 5 generates 50 IRP
Port size 6 generates 63 IRP
Port size 7 generates 77 IRP
Port size 8 generates 92 IRP
Port size 9 generates 108 IRP
Port size 10 generates 125 IRP

Exemplar D: A single ship in “pierside mode” at a port size 9 will receive 108 IRP each turn which is more than what is required to remove a single POD each turn. If the ship were in “pierside mode” at a port size 5 it would receive only 50 IRP which would be applied towards removing a POD and the progress achieved (together with any assistance from the crew and naval support, see table C above) would be carried over to the next turn.


Table E: IRP generated by repair ships

(Undamaged, disbanded, unused tender generates 83 IRP)
(Undamaged, disbanded, unused ARD generates 100 IRP but used only for flotation repair on one ship at a time)

Exemplar E: Two disbanded in port AS will generate a combined 166 IRP which will be applied only to a submarine in “repair ship mode”, any other additional submarines in port but in “pierside mode” will gain no benefit from these IRP. However, if there are no submarines in “repair ship mode” but only in “pierside mode” then the IRP generated by the AS will be automatically applied by the “repair manager” to the submarines in “pierside mode”. Were the submarines to be in “readiness mode” they would not benefit from these IRP.

• 50 IRP from the port [see table D, port size 5]
• 11 IRP from the naval support squads [see table C, (40/2) – (45/5)]
• 10 from crew experience [see table C, (80/8)]
• 83 IRP from the AD [see table E]

Table F: Normal integrity damage of combat vessels repairable by repair ships

AD – DD/DE/APD/DMS/DM/AVD/E/TB/KV/PF/PB/PC/SC/AM/ML
AG – DE/APD/DMS/DM/AVD/E/TB/KV/PF/PB/PC/SC/AM/ML/HDML/MGB/YP/YMS/AMc
AGP – PT/MTB/MGB/PB/PC/SC/AM/ML/HDML/YP/YMS/AMc
AR – all ship types
ARD – flotation damage only to all ship types but only 1 ship at a time is repaired
AS – SS/SST/SSX

Exemplar F: A minesweeper (AM) with 39 “normal” engine POD will receive IRP from an AD, AG, AGP or AR. A submarine with the exact same damage will receive IRP only from an AR or AS.


Table G: Major integrity damage of combat vessels repairable by repair ships

AD – PB/PC/SC/AM/ML/HDML/MGB/YP/YMS/AMc
AG – PB/PC/SC/AM/ML/HDML/MGB/YP/YMS/AMc
AGP – PB/PC/SC/AM/ML/HDML/MGB/YP/YMS/AMc
AR – PB/PC/SC/AM/ML/HDML/MGB/YP/YMS/AMc
AR – all ship types sized DE and above provided the aggregated major IR damage does not exceed 5 POD
ARD – flotation damage only to all ship types but only 1 ship at a time is repaired

Exemplar G: A heavy cruiser with 3 “major” engine POD will be repaired by an AR. If it had 6 “major” engine POD, it could not be repaired by the AR.

Table H: Sundry expertise locations for repair of major damage

Merchant ships sized 1 to 1000 tons, where (port size x 100) = merchant ship tonnage
Barges, where port size = 4 or the repair ships AG/AGP/AR are disbanded in the port
Midget subs with “major” engine damage only, where port size = 6 or the repair ships AR/AS are disbanded in the port
Small craft ships up to 499 tons, port size = 4
Small craft 500 to 1000 tons, where port size = ship tonnage/100

Exemplar H: The ships listed in this table only benefit if they are disbanded in the port.

Table I: Supply of repair workers seeking employment

Port size 1 generates 8 RW
Port size 2 generates 34 RW
Port size 3 generates 81 RW
Port size 4 generates 152 RW
Port size 5 generates 250 RW
Port size 6 generates 378 RW
Port size 7 generates 539 RW
Port size 8 generates 736 RW
Port size 9 generates 972 RW
Port size 10 generates 1250 RW

Exemplar I: (see discussion following table J)


Table J: Ship demand for repair workers for ships in “normal repair priority”

Ship in “pierside mode”, demand = [(damage x 10) + (Ship tonnage/500)]
Ship in “readiness mode”, demand = [(damage x 20) + (Ship tonnage/500)]

Exemplar J:(see following discussion)


To illustrate in simple terms how supply and demand for RW plays out, consider the following situation. A 10000 ton cruiser has a total of 43 normal IR POD and is in “pierside mode” at a port size 8 with no other ships under repair. The cruiser’s “repair priority” is “normal” (see section 13 below for the effect if a different “repair priority” were assigned to the cruiser).

From table I, we can see the total supply of RW is 736. From table J, we can calculate the demand from this single ship for RW is:
(43 x 10) + (10000/500) = 450 RW


If the cruiser were in “readiness mode”, the equation then becomes:
(43 x 20) + (10000/500) = 880 RW

Table unlabeled: Descriptions of Priority Settings

“High priority” sees IR undertaken at 1.667 times the normal rate (provided there are sufficient IRP available at that location to pay for the worked overtime) but the trade off is that the ship imposes 2 times its normal RW utilization rate.

“Critical priority” sees IR undertaken at 2 times the normal rate (again provided sufficient IRP are present for the worked overtime) but the trade off is 4 times the normal RW utilization rate is incurred.

“Low priority” sees IR undertaken at the same rate as “normal priority”. The difference with “normal priority” is a ship on “low priority” is placed at the end of the queue and is only worked on if all the ships ahead of it have been attended to. Use “low priority” where you want to favor some other ships but are not willing, or unable, to pay the overtime rates.

(in reply to Mac Linehan)
Post #: 33
RE: Ship Repair 101 Guide - 12/23/2011 4:57:03 PM   
MaB1708

 

Posts: 336
Joined: 8/13/2006
From: Freiburg(Germany)
Status: offline 		Alfred and Bullwinkle,

thank you both for this fantastic piece of work, I am thrilled by your passion to pass on your knowledge - or is it just that you grew tired of ever the same questions on the forum? Maybe both. Whatever the trigger, thank you.

Martin

(in reply to Mac Linehan)
Post #: 34
RE: Ship Repair 101 Guide - 12/23/2011 8:24:14 PM   
CaptDave

 

Posts: 659
Joined: 6/21/2002
From: Federal Way, WA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred


quote:

ORIGINAL: CaptDave

Excellent work, Alfred.  Thanks much!  Thanks also to Bullwinkle for his contributions.

I've added a Ship Repairs section to the Wiki, consisting of a sentence or two with a link back to this thread.  It might be worth putting the full text there at some point, but not yet -- at the very least, we need to wait for (a) any typos to be discovered and (b) for any "responsible opposing viewpoints" -- although there aren't usually many nits to pick with Alfred's work.



Very wise to wait.

Since posting the guide, a developer has provided me with additional information regarding the inner workings of the "repair manager". As far as I recall, I don't think it has been publicly disclosed before, or at least I don't recall coming across it in my research.

I don't believe the additional information fundamentally invalidates the guide. However it does allow me to provide a better answer to be given than the one recently given to itdepends.

I have to be careful as to how I incorporate into the guide the new information. Potentially the guide could be made more complex for little practical benefit to most players. Micromanagers will love the additional knowledge even though they won't be able to actually act upon it.

As a teaser let me say that:


  • there is a hidden qualitative difference to repairing "major" damage which makes it more inefficient to repair
  • there is a hidden IRP cost which varies between ship classes
  • there is a triage for ship repairs


These teasers, together with others, will be expanded upon when I revise the guide. Actual algorithms won't be provided, I don't have them either, but a fuller explanation of the repair process, in particular how the "repair manager" works, will be provided.

Alfred


Yeah, I figured there would be more to come, and just linking to the thread also preserves the string of comments!

Of course, the fact that I'm at the office and really should be working on a client's application for tax-exempt status, rather than perusing AE material, played a small part, too...

(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 35
RE: Ship Repair 101 Guide - 12/23/2011 9:48:53 PM   
dr.hal


Posts: 3335
Joined: 6/3/2006
From: Covington LA via Montreal!
Status: offline 		Alfred one thing that's not clear to me is a point concerning weapons. Are WRPs carried over or to say it another way, is there a % by which you can "reinstall" a weapon from turn to turn much like regular repairs? I don't recall you mentioning it, but it would seem logical to me for the game to allow this...as replacing a 16 inch tube all in one turn is the purview of only a very few places on the game board! Hal

(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 36
RE: Ship Repair 101 Guide - 12/23/2011 10:08:42 PM   
dr.hal


Posts: 3335
Joined: 6/3/2006
From: Covington LA via Montreal!
Status: offline 		One more thing Alfred, given that from time to time ships have to get underway quickly, can either weapons repair or other types be "interrupted" by an excursion and then resumed where it was left off? You have made clear that from turn to turn the repair points for systems, flotation and engineering spaces can be carried over in terms of a percent towards the next POD, but can a day, two days, a week be skipped and then upon the ship's return picked up from where the repairs left off (ie, 92% towards the next POD)? It might seem to some like nitpicking, but it could be important especially as a harassing tactic by one's enemy. Thanks in advance. Hal

(in reply to dr.hal)
Post #: 37
RE: Ship Repair 101 Guide - 12/23/2011 11:13:43 PM   
mikkey


Posts: 3142
Joined: 2/10/2008
From: Slovakia
Status: offline 		excellent work Alfred, thank you very much!

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Post #: 38
RE: Ship Repair 101 Guide - 12/24/2011 1:28:22 AM   
Alfred

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dr.hal

Alfred one thing that's not clear to me is a point concerning weapons. Are WRPs carried over or to say it another way, is there a % by which you can "reinstall" a weapon from turn to turn much like regular repairs? I don't recall you mentioning it, but it would seem logical to me for the game to allow this...as replacing a 16 inch tube all in one turn is the purview of only a very few places on the game board! Hal


No.

OK, turning off <Terminus mode>

As stated in the guide, both WRP and IRP are not carried over from turn to turn. It is always a case of use it now or lose it.

As to carrying forward to the next turn the progress repair work achieved, one must understand the difference between WR and IR. The guide does say that WR is technically not a repair in as much as what is actually transpiring is substituting one piece of burnt and twisted metal with a brand new shiny weapon. Either the WR source "carries" in inventory the weapon and is therefore able to substitute in the new weapon, or it doesn't "carry" it in inventory and therefore cannot "repair" the weapon.

Americans might not understand the following phrase but older Australians will. Weapons can not be purchased on a "lay-by" basis. I deliberately chose the Iowa class rifles as the exemplar because there are only 4, repeat 4, locations where they can be repaired. To repair the Iowa class rifles you need a shipyard minimum sized 135. The only four shipyards meeting that requirement are:


  • Eastern USA, size 300
  • Seattle, size 200
  • Alameda, size 180
  • San Francisco, size 140


Don't forget these shipyards must be at 100% undamaged capacity to generate the requisite WRP. If the San Francisco shipyard were to be at a 5% damage level it would slip below the threshold until the shipyard itself were fully repaired.

It is extremely important that the player sends his ships with damaged weapons to the right WRP sources. There is absolutely no point in sending an Iowa class battleship to a port sized 1 and expecting that after 108 turns the "damaged" (really "destroyed") rifle will be repaired. It will never be repaired at a port sized 1 no matter what the player does.

IR are very different. With them you can carry forward progress work (but again I emphasise not unused IRP) because we aren't talking about substituting in things "carried" in inventory. Instead we are dealing with RW doing time sensitive things like hammering twisted metal into shape, cutting through steel to get access to parts of the ship needing repair etc. This is why I introduced the RW concept into the guide as it acts as a very significant speed limiter on the rate of IR.

Alfred

(in reply to dr.hal)
Post #: 39
RE: Ship Repair 101 Guide - 12/24/2011 1:55:24 AM   
Alfred

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dr.hal

One more thing Alfred, given that from time to time ships have to get underway quickly, can either weapons repair or other types be "interrupted" by an excursion and then resumed where it was left off? You have made clear that from turn to turn the repair points for systems, flotation and engineering spaces can be carried over in terms of a percent towards the next POD, but can a day, two days, a week be skipped and then upon the ship's return picked up from where the repairs left off (ie, 92% towards the next POD)? It might seem to some like nitpicking, but it could be important especially as a harassing tactic by one's enemy. Thanks in advance. Hal


Willing as I am to field questions on ship repairs, I do remain outside of the developer circle.

Regarding an interruptus of a WR, logically following on from my preceding post the answer would be a confident no. If there were 6 gun barrels needing repair and the ship was at a location where only sufficient WRP were generated daily to repair a single barrel each day and the work was "interrupted" after 4 days, you would simply be left with 2 more days of work to complete the task. At least that is my take on the process, not having access to the code.

Regarding an "interruptus" of an IR. The honest answer is that I don't know although I suspect the answer is that if the ship is put back "on line", the progress work made towards removing the next POD would be lost. The loss of a day or two days progress is irrelevant in the overall scheme of things.

In practical terms I don't really think this is an important issue of concern because it takes 3 days to bring back a ship from "offline" status to "on line" status. Taking into account the triage aspect, which I will incorporate into the guide, I really don't think there are going to be that many occasions when a player will voluntarily interrupt their IR to sortie a still damaged ship, and if the "sortie" is unvoluntary, being brought about in response to pending enemy action, then serious questions should be asked of the player as to why the work was being carried out at a vulnerable location.

Alfred

(in reply to dr.hal)
Post #: 40
RE: Ship Repair 101 Guide - 12/24/2011 2:47:25 AM   
dr.hal


Posts: 3335
Joined: 6/3/2006
From: Covington LA via Montreal!
Status: offline 		Thanks Alfred, very much.... I certainly understand that a gun tube is a gun tube... but damage to a gun system that destroys it is a LOT more than just the tube, it is a system.... and it is repaired in stages... and progress can be made in stages... I was just wondering if the abstraction used in the game reflected that aspect, and thus the "carry over" of work done while in a legitimate port or facility can be interrupted and later resumed at the stage it was stopped at, as a way of reflecting that concept. What I hear load and clear is that it is all or nothing... repaired or not. That's good to know. Hal

And yes, I do understand that you are outside that magic circle, but you DO have a very well earned reputation in this forum.

(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 41
RE: Ship Repair 101 Guide - 12/24/2011 3:42:19 AM   
Alfred

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MartinB

... I am thrilled by your passion to pass on your knowledge - or is it just that you grew tired of ever the same questions on the forum? Maybe both...




Mainly the latter. Reading the nature of the ship repair questions asked on the forum, and the quality of the answers provided by others, it was very clear to me that this was an area very poorly understood. My own answers to specific elements of the repair process were regularly being overlooked as the same questions were being asked over and over again.

Although the game manual is a wealth of information on the subject, it was obvious people were not reading it or were failing to comprehend it. With all due modesty, I felt I could improve upon the manual's presentation of the subject. Bullwinkle was used as a sounding board to see if the "average Joe" would find my guide more comprehensible than the official manual. Being the perfet writer I was quite prepared to post version 1 of the guide. Bullwinkle's feedback demonstrated that as it stood, version 1 was not completely removing his own misconceptions, and taking into account his own editorial comments, the need for version 2 (almost a complete rewrite) became obvious. Now with the additional feedback provided by a developer, some additional tweaking will be forthcoming but this additional information is basically about how the repair manager operates under the hood, an area which the player has no impact over.

The final motivating factor is that i am very much of the view that people who merely ask questions of others and fail to do their own study into a subject area, never really learn nor improve their game play. Therefore one of the overriding objectives was to get players interested enough in the subject to do their own study. Whilst it remains an abstraction in AE, a point I make early in the guide, the level of detail involved in the repair process is not something readily found in other wargames. Just an additional layer of "realism".

Alfred

(in reply to MaB1708)
Post #: 42
RE: Ship Repair 101 Guide - 12/30/2011 11:07:02 PM   
Justus2


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quote:



Table G: Major integrity damage of combat vessels repairable by repair ships

AD – PB/PC/SC/AM/ML/HDML/MGB/YP/YMS/AMc
AG – PB/PC/SC/AM/ML/HDML/MGB/YP/YMS/AMc
AGP – PB/PC/SC/AM/ML/HDML/MGB/YP/YMS/AMc
AR – PB/PC/SC/AM/ML/HDML/MGB/YP/YMS/AMc
AR – all ship types sized DE and above provided the aggregated major IR damage does not exceed 5 POD
ARD – flotation damage only to all ship types but only 1 ship at a time is repaired

Exemplar G: A heavy cruiser with 3 “major” engine POD will be repaired by an AR. If it had 6 “major” engine POD, it could not be repaired by the AR.

*******************
11. Expertise required to repair major damage
Ports sized 7 can repair up to 5 “major” flotation or engine POD on ships which are in “pierside mode”.




Alfred,
Thanks for the wonderful guide! However, I have one question for clarification: From the above, it appears the AR is restricted to 'aggregated major' IR damage, but ports say up to 5 'major' damage on flotation or engine - is this also aggregated? I understand if a ship has over 5 major in a category, it is not eligible for the repairs, but what if for example it has 4 engine, and 3 flotation? Can it get repaired in pierside at a Port 7? Thanks!

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Post #: 43
RE: Ship Repair 101 Guide - 12/31/2011 3:37:00 AM   
stuman


Posts: 3907
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From: Elvis' Hometown
Status: offline 		Good work guys.

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Post #: 44
RE: Ship Repair 101 Guide - 1/30/2012 11:21:54 PM   
Keifer


Posts: 92
Joined: 9/27/2007
From: San Diego, CA
Status: offline 		"there is a hidden IRP cost which varies between ship classes" - by Alfred

I assumed there must be, since BB take much longer to repair than CA which take longer than DD

Do you know if tonnage or durability impacts the cost/time of repair?


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Post #: 45
RE: Ship Repair 101 Guide - 1/30/2012 11:40:51 PM   
Don Bowen


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From: Georgetown, Texas, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Keifer

"there is a hidden IRP cost which varies between ship classes" - by Alfred

I assumed there must be, since BB take much longer to repair than CA which take longer than DD

Do you know if tonnage or durability impacts the cost/time of repair?



While it is not specifically hidden, I do not know if I have the authority to detail the calculation.

Basically, it is obvious. 20 damage point (i.e. 20% damage) of a battleship is harder to repair then 20 points for a sub chaser. The calculation considers tonnage, durability and armor. The higher the numbers are for these, the more repair effort is required to repair one point of damage.

(in reply to Keifer)
Post #: 46
RE: Ship Repair 101 Guide - 1/30/2012 11:53:01 PM   
Don Bowen


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From: Georgetown, Texas, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Justus2

... I have one question for clarification: From the above, it appears the AR is restricted to 'aggregated major' IR damage, but ports say up to 5 'major' damage on flotation or engine - is this also aggregated? I understand if a ship has over 5 major in a category, it is not eligible for the repairs, but what if for example it has 4 engine, and 3 flotation? Can it get repaired in pierside at a Port 7? Thanks!


Repairability of major damage is distinct per damage type. An AR can repair up to 5 points of major float damage AND up to 5 points of major engine damage. The intent of the calulation is to estimate the structural damage and limit the ability of repair ships to handle it. A relatively small of major damage can be repaired by a smaller facility (like AR). Larger amounts infer structural damage where major ship's components are "out of whack" and these must be repaired before the "minor" major damage can be fixed.

Possible example: A hole in the side of the ship that does not misalign frames or compress decks could be repaired by an AR. But significant damage to the ship's frames and keel would require a more capable facility.

(in reply to Justus2)
Post #: 47
RE: Ship Repair 101 Guide - 1/31/2012 12:40:26 AM   
Justus2


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Status: offline 		Thanks for the clarification!

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Post #: 48
RE: Ship Repair 101 Guide - 2/1/2012 5:32:29 AM   
BigDuke66


Posts: 2013
Joined: 2/1/2001
From: Terra
Status: offline 		Great guide!

A question:
If the manual is correct all AR classes from smallest to largest generate 1000 Op points, is that correct?
Sounds a bit strange that a 670t Castor has the same impact as an 10100t Medusa on repairs.

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Post #: 49
RE: Ship Repair 101 Guide - 2/1/2012 6:29:19 AM   
jmalter

 

Posts: 1673
Joined: 10/12/2010
Status: offline 		hi Alfred, many thanks for writing up this guide.

i've a question wrt ARD - how best to take advantage of them?

i gather that they are best used to repair flotation damage, but in order to use its capabilities, should a damaged ship be in 'repair ship' mode? or will the ARD automatically apply its repair capacity to any disbanded ship in the same harbor?

i've got an ARD at Mare Island, she'll take more than a month to get to Pearl or Midway. If i send her to Midway, once disbanded, will she automatically add her repair capability to the base, or will i need to assign damaged ships to 'repair ship' mode? I've got an AS & AR disbanded there - if a damaged SS arrives, do i need to assign it a specific repair mode to take advantage of the ARD's repair abilities?

If i send the ARD to Pearl, does her repair capacity get added in with the port's shipyard abilities, or will they only be used if a ship is assigned to 'repair ship' mode?

best regards!

(in reply to BigDuke66)
Post #: 50
RE: Ship Repair 101 Guide - 2/1/2012 3:02:58 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
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From: Argleton
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BigDuke66

Great guide!

A question:
If the manual is correct all AR classes from smallest to largest generate 1000 Op points, is that correct?
Sounds a bit strange that a 670t Castor has the same impact as an 10100t Medusa on repairs.


A couple of things. First off, the developers freely acknowledge that they have not - and are not allowed to - give us all the forumlae used by the game code. So it is quite possible, even likely, that they haven't told us all the details of how ship repair works.

Second, Op points are not repair points. All ships get 1,000 Ops Points to use every day (or every phase, which is 2 x phases per day, I forget which it is). Since an AR is a ship its 'activity' for the turn gets tracked by Ops Points. If it uses up 1,000 Ops Points getting refueled then it has no 'time' left to help repair other ships because it spent all day taking on fuel. Ops Points are just a way of helping the code to keep track of ships to make sure they are not all like 'Superman', able to do an unrealistic number of things in one day.

When you consider both of those points together you can see that it is quite possible that there is code in there that accounts for how big is an AR ship when the code takes into account how many 'repair points' it can contribute to fixing other ships. The developers might not tell us this, or they might jump in here and comment but not tell us the formulae involved.

< Message edited by witpqs -- 2/1/2012 3:05:01 PM >

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Post #: 51
RE: Ship Repair 101 Guide - 2/1/2012 4:28:03 PM   
BigDuke66


Posts: 2013
Joined: 2/1/2001
From: Terra
Status: offline 		Gee who speaks of a formula, I just would like to know the capability of those ships, just like I know that the cargo capacity for AS limits the torpedo types that can be reloaded I would like to know if the cargo capacity(I guess that would be the best indicator, what else could you use?) has an impact on repair.
The way the manual suggests it it seems that there is no difference which I can hardly believe with anything else around ship repair so detailed.

Anyone here that has seen differences in repair rate by ARs?

< Message edited by BigDuke66 -- 2/1/2012 4:29:22 PM >

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Post #: 52
RE: Ship Repair 101 Guide - 2/3/2012 1:54:11 PM   
1EyedJacks


Posts: 2244
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From: The Eastern Sierras
Status: offline 		Thanks Alfred & Bullwinkle - I enjoyed this.

TTFN,

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Post #: 53
RE: Ship Repair 101 Guide - 2/3/2012 3:37:07 PM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		Thanks to the two of you for the clarifications. It really helps me see what I am doing right and wrong. I sort of knew all of this by intuition but did not really fully understand it. My question is would you expand the formula for figuring out the cost of WRP for guns? This is where I was caught off guard. I have just been under the assumption that a repair yard the size of Cape Town could repair any ship. However, the formula shows that a broken 16 inch or 15 inch gun will not repair in Cape Town, but I am not sure about a 14 inch gun. This really indicates the limitations of operating large ships in the Indian Ocean theater. Perhaps the larger BBs should be kept out of there altogether-or severly limited.

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RE: Ship Repair 101 Guide - 2/4/2012 7:21:37 AM   
inqistor


Posts: 1813
Joined: 5/12/2010
Status: offline 		I am pretty sure this section is still in-game:
quote:

14.2.1.1 DAMAGE REPAIR SELECTION

Floatation damage and major engine damage
are given higher priority by offsetting damage levels for band calculations. Major floatation
damage is tripled, regular floatation damage and major engine damage are doubled. This
means that floatation damage will be considered to be in approximately the same band as
systems damage of up to twice that much, three times that much if the damage was Major
floatation damage.


So the example is not entirely correct. Floatation would need to fall below 24, to begin repair of engine.
And I am not sure, such large engine damage is even possible.

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Post #: 55
RE: Ship Repair 101 Guide - 2/4/2012 3:43:00 PM   
oldman45


Posts: 2320
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BigDuke66

edit

Anyone here that has seen differences in repair rate by ARs?


Nope.

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RE: Ship Repair 101 Guide - 2/17/2012 6:07:18 AM   
jmalter

 

Posts: 1673
Joined: 10/12/2010
Status: offline 		some questions on repairing:

1) for a ship w/ a 'full suite' of damage, disbanded in a port w/ a shipyard, is there a 'total time for repair' advantage if the ship is assigned to readiness/pierside mode until all its non-major damage is repaired before it's transferred to shipyard repair? or will damaged ships repair more quickly when placed in a shipyard (assuming the shipyard capacity isn't exceeded)?

2) when a ship w/ floatation damage is repairing in a port, must it be assigned to repair-ship mode for a disbanded ARD to have any effect? if the damaged ship's size is greater than the tonnage-capacity of the ARD, do i assume correctly that the ARD will have no effect on that ship's flotation repair?

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Post #: 57
RE: Ship Repair 101 Guide - 2/18/2012 1:32:55 AM   
BigDuke66


Posts: 2013
Joined: 2/1/2001
From: Terra
Status: offline 		Durability was mentioned here and I would like to know if the durability has any other function besides being used as measurement of the "ship’s seaworthiness"(an din case of subs their diving depth).
Are ships with high durability harder to sink or damage in combat?

< Message edited by BigDuke66 -- 2/18/2012 1:34:31 AM >

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RE: Ship Repair 101 Guide - 2/19/2012 3:20:38 AM   
bretg80

 

Posts: 289
Joined: 6/8/2009
Status: offline 		Please put this into a PDF so we can read it on our IPADs and search it for the information we are looking for.

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Post #: 59
RE: Ship Repair 101 Guide - 2/19/2012 6:33:31 PM   
BigDuke66


Posts: 2013
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From: Terra
Status: offline 		Better this all flows into a revised manual.

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